Author Topic: About eComStation Pricing  (Read 16341 times)

Martin Iturbide

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About eComStation Pricing
« on: October 10, 2014, 12:12:55 am »
Hi

I wrote this as a response to other thread, but I didn't want to hi-jack that thread. So I'm creating a new one just for the fun of the open discussion. 

I had checked a couple of sites in the past that discussed the price of eComStation. Some OS enthusiast say they want to give it a try to eComStation. But when the see the $149 for Home and Student edition price they say that it is too much for just a "wild interest". $149 it is too much for an OS that gives you a 30% chance (am I being kind?) of not running on your computer and that may be incompatible with your hardware. So, for the OS enthusiast, there is a money breaking point of how much they want to spend/risk just to try out the experience of eComStation.

If we compare eCS 2.1 $149 price against Windows, it may sound competitive:

Check out Windows prices (from some sources on the internet)
- $69.99 for DVD upgrades from Windows XP, Vista, or 7 to Windows 8 Pro
- $69.99 for a downloadable upgrade key
- $99.99 for standalone OEM version of Windows 8 (32-bit and 64-bit)
- $139.99 for standalone OEM version of Windows 8 Pro

But that was OEM, let's check out Retail:
- Standard edition - $119.99
- Pro version -  $199.99.

eCS 2.1 $149 even looks cheaper than Windows (or Windows may be overpriced), since eComStation costs more to be maintained, since it have less sales than Windows. eCS Home/Student gives you the right to be installed on 5 PCs and there is no crippled version of it, since it will be compared to the Pro version of Windows.  I can put a lot more blah, blah, but the fact is that all of this arguments are non valid arguments, since the reality is that we don't have "new" people buying eCS for individual use, not even the OS enthusiast. (I can say this, because I don't see a grow in the community)

The facts are that:
- eCS does not have updated drivers and you may not have sound or network on your computer.
- Windows keeps selling on every new machine (at least the good thing is that the PC market is coming down with it)
- Linux is good enough for an OS and it is free.
- Other experimental OS (ReactOS, HaikuOS) are available for free.

I think that eComStation needs a more aggressive pricing for people that are new to the platform and that want it for individual use. Maybe limiting it more to an specific individual non-commercial use, but giving it cheaper.  Maybe giving a $30 non-commercial individual license, without any subscription or drivers updates, will be a good breaking point for people that wants to give it a try. who knows?

Of course that there is the limitation that IBM wants his OEM fee for each license, but we don't know that agreement. I don't know if IBM is asking $1 dollar of each license or $148 :)   On the end, what is happening is that we do not have any users grow, and they will suck the money out of the legacy until the last one turn off the light.

So, I think that a money sacrifice needs to done on the license cost from Mensys/XEU. The other alternative is to continue with the same model until the last one of the corporate customer migrates to other platform and the last OS/2 user dies (For the moment no one has returned from the death to complain that eCS has no drivers - or is it that the nonliving does not use this forum? :)

Money is a resource that is required and needed, but it is useless if all the people leave and there is no one left to use the platform.  eCS needs to try to move out from the "Legacy Market" because that market is focused to "squeeze money" while it is available and later dump it. It needs to move to a different market, which is hard, but at least it needs to be tried.

This is why I think that all efforts that we made today needs to be done in a way that allows derivative works to be done in the future without the control of only one person or company........ is it the open source solution showing up again?
Martin Iturbide
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Eugene Gorbunoff

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Re: About eComStation Pricing
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2014, 12:35:54 am »
> eCS Home/Student gives you the right to be installed on 5 PCs

it's wrong

* 1 license = 1 computer

* if you need 1, 2, 3 or 4 eCS licenses  then you should buy Home/Student.

* if you need >= 5, .. 10, 20, .. licenses then you should buy Business


« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 12:45:03 am by Eugene Gorbunoff »

Fahrvenugen

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Re: About eComStation Pricing
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2014, 01:14:14 am »
> eCS Home/Student gives you the right to be installed on 5 PCs

it's wrong

* 1 license = 1 computer

* if you need 1, 2, 3 or 4 eCS licenses  then you should buy Home/Student.

* if you need >= 5, .. 10, 20, .. licenses then you should buy Business

Hi,

As I seem to recall the above is *almost* correct.

The last version of the eCS license that I actually took the time to read through, the license gives you the right to install it on 2 computers - 1 desktop and 1 laptop - as long as the laptop and desktop are not both in use at the same time.

Of course that may have changed with more recent versions of the license.


guzzi

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Re: About eComStation Pricing
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2014, 02:08:34 am »
The right to install. Yeah, right..... I actually only run eCS on one pc. But if had had a few more, I would not pay for additional licences. When I install win 7 on computers for other people, I buy a 'used' licence on ebay. Is that legal? I don't know and don't care. Most of the pc's I have seen in russia running windows, have a pirated version. Most here, have been delivered with windows. Most pc's not from vendors like HP, Lenovo but custom built, have 'copies' running on them. Selling os's is a dead business.

Martin Iturbide

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Re: About eComStation Pricing
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2014, 05:08:28 am »
eCS Home/Student gives you the right to be installed on 5 PCs..
Sorry, my mistake. I must be confused with other thing.

Any comments on the rest?
Martin Iturbide
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Jean-Yves

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Re: About eComStation Pricing
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2014, 10:48:39 am »
Hello Martin.

I would very much like to see a non-commercial license. I'd pay $30 no problem to upgrade from 1.2R to the latest version. $50 even. The current price is very much geared towards corporates and not enthusiasts, which ultimately is a problem as it is the enthusiasts who are likely to be developing new innovations and keeping the OS fresh.


Eugene Gorbunoff

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Re: About eComStation Pricing
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2014, 11:28:13 am »
Yes, there are many questions:

1)
* if you need 1 kg of apples, then you buy it for $5, if you want buy 100 kg of apples then you get a discount and spend .. $1*100
in case of eComStation, if you need more licenses then you spend more money.

* to compete with Windows.. to make company select eCS instead of Windows, the price should be .. -30% or -60% lower if compare with Windows


2) IMHO, I didn't discussed this topic with eCS people:

eComStation is not ready for selling in super-market. So, it's difficult sell it to new users, to random users. Nobody was selling eCS PC black boxes with OS/2 solutions installed.
That's why the manufacturer of OS was oriented to companies / users which were using OS/2 already. The market is limited, the quantity of users is known. N users + 12 monthes to release updates + $X from sponsors  => as result, the price of eCS should be: ...

If reduce eCS price down to $30 then.. => yes, the sellings will increase, but the budget will collapse.

Jean-Yves

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Re: About eComStation Pricing
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2014, 11:41:37 am »
$30 would be for a non-commercial license though.

Companies would still pay the premium which they can afford.

Unless I misunderstood Martin's initial thoughts?

Martin Iturbide

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Re: About eComStation Pricing
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2014, 04:33:22 pm »
Yes, the idea is to have something cheap for the entry - noncommercial market. Something that may be limited in some way ....I prefer non-technical limited, but limited by licencing or service, like you can not use it on a company (commercial), or you will not get newer drivers subscription. But that it allows OS esthusiast to buy it to testing. It is not going be the big bang of new users for us, but it may be a smaller part of a bigger strategy.
Martin Iturbide
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Martin Iturbide

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Re: About eComStation Pricing
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2014, 05:58:42 pm »
The other idea is a 100% free license for Students and University Research.  And about this subject I want to say that IBM used to have free for charge for Universities OS/2 Warp 4.52 under the "IBM Academic Initiative Program". On the download catalog (maybe until 2006) OS/2 Warp 4.52 and Warp Server was available for download for teachers. So that may not be as wild and one can think.
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Fr4nk

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Re: About eComStation Pricing
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2014, 07:01:20 pm »
Well I have my doubts that there will be new users which will be parts of community (new developers, customers for software etc.) anyway eCS cost 30 $ or even when it would be for free.

If a new user installs eCS he will see that a lot things are not working like on other platforms. Too many standard things are not avi or just to complicated (hell even a USB stick will not work without learning LVM and DFSEE). Nobody will do that what we bone-headed old os2 users are willing to do because we love this platform. There is no advantage in eCS or OS2 above other plaforms anymore other than these things which are relevant for old users only - who wants to run old applications and love the continuity (which are great features but only for us long time users). There are no killer apps anymore. Lot of things are outdated.


I say this beeing OS2 enthusiast and I will be the one who turn the light off (in 20 years or so) ;)

Barbara

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Re: About eComStation Pricing
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2014, 07:41:07 pm »
Yes, you are right Fr4nk, and the few who try, if they are stubborn and pass the first step, then starting to appreciate so much the platform due to its characteristics of quickness, stability and lightness that despair replaces, caused by the lack of all those drivers and applications now common and standard to all other modern operating systems  :-[
I'm not in the business. I am the business.

Joop

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Re: About eComStation Pricing
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2014, 03:59:53 pm »
Price is not that important, that the computer works without problems is. With Windows a computer will work, drivers are available. Almost no help is required from internal or external helpdesk. Next the problem with compatibility with other programs, the working together problems. Price will only be a problem when licenses are not scalable, ie the license for one user will cost the same as for 100 because the license minimum is for 100 users or more. With other OS systems drivers may not be available for the systems which where bought by the company, ie lots of money is going in making the machines running. So for eCS its important that it will work and run straight out of the box on any system.

Martin Iturbide

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Re: About eComStation Pricing
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2014, 04:57:12 pm »
I still don't want to think that the only future of the platform is to be part of a legacy that should be squezzed until and last coporate customer leave and that our destined future is for Fr4nk to turn off the light at the end :)

I really want to give it a try and at least share some ideas of what can we do about the future of the platform.

I think that reducing the price of eComStation is not the final solution, but I think it can be a smaller part of a bigger plan. So the idea is not to see it it binary and say "Reducing the price is the only thing we need todo to save the world"...no. It has to be seen as one thing that "adds up".
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Fr4nk

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Re: About eComStation Pricing
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2014, 08:36:56 am »
Quote
[...] at least share some ideas of what can we do about the future of the platform.

- set priorities and sort important things
- make it running perfectly on a reference hardware (support a small set of hardware but then perfectly)
- make killer apps (niche apps that don't exist on other platforms)
- get back to stability instead of desktop enhancers
- don't port 1000 (qt) apps and don't test but port 2 apps and make it big
- @developers: make as much as possible software free (Open Source or even freeware)
- @developers.ru don't try to sell mini apps which are better and free on all other platforms for 20 years.
- avoid things like "you can only use this software when you're a member of my club"

If it gets competitive to other platforms you can drew the price of course.

The first things should be to hold last users/2. Even more worse than no new users are less users.

I agree 100%  about squeezing the last guys - this will disperse users.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 08:41:32 am by Fr4nk »