(continuation from before)
5/20/13
to me
Hello wesco,
On Sun, 19 May 2013 23:04:44 -0400, wesco wrote:
>we tried the snap with ACPI set to 1 proc. no joy. we have never had issues
>with SNAP; thus our surprise. what we didn't try was the old PSD to see if
>intel MP support works. we have never had smp problems that weren't
>manageable every since the ALR revolution MP 90 we built in 1994. we even
>sent indelible blue a video that they could use to show off OS/2 2.11SMP.
Mensys owns the rights to the OS/2 source code of SNAP and as I have
written we will continue development of SNAP.
Just not right now.
However priority on SNAP development was pushed down because we needed
to make a big step forward.
eCS 2.2 contains the following drivers updated:
IBMKBD.SYS, ACPI.PSD, OS2AHCI.ADD, USBEHCD.SYS, USBOHCD.SYS,
USBUHCD.SYS, USBD.SYS, USBKBD.SYS, USBMOUSE.SYS, USBHID.SYS.
Patched DOSCALL1.DLL and TCPIP32.DLL to fix an SMP defect IBM never
traced. Mayor updated to bootable JFS code.
Fixes to the danis506.add driver. Mayor overhaul to the Panorama video
code.
As for the SNAP and SMP. The problem is much bigger then just using the
another PSD.
The old OS2APIC.PSD is COMPLETELY different from what ACPI.PSD does.
On most systems OS2APIC.PSD will not load even or it will not run the
hardware in APIC IRQ mode.
(which is required on more and more systems)
The other problem with SNAP is that SOME systems the PCI scan bus
routine does not work.
We have one system where SNAP hangs at startup. (HP Z200) thats one of
the things we need to fix.
Further down in your email you point our the importance of accelrated
video.
Maybe a weird question what define "accelrated" video. With the arrival
of the Panorama driver
a lot of systems had SLOW video. But this is not because Panorama is a
unaccelrated VESA driver.
Its because the MTRR registers on modern mainboards/CPU's are no longer
being setup correctly
on all CPU core's by the BIOS. This is now a task of the OS. The new
ACPI and Panorama driver in eCS 2.2
fix this issue.
SNAP also on some systems if they have more then 2 GB of RAM does not
setup correctly the MTRR
registers correctly. This can result in system hangs or slow video
performance.
The ring 2 video driver on OS/2 is a DLL and runs on an SMP systems on
multiple cores.
Hence the reason the MTRR registers need to be setup correctly.
In eCS 2.2 we ship a new version of Panorama that correctly setups the
MTRR registers on all CPU core's in an SMP
system. It can also handle +2GB memory sceneraio's correctly. And if
MTRR does not work Panorama automaticly switches
to PAT support.
Later this year the changes in Panarama will be backported int SNAP so
it gets the same performance and setup's
the registers on PC's properly running in SMP mode. But having a video
driver that talks to video card with the control
API of that video chipset is not the holy grail for fast video
performance alone.
>you have 50 units working well. great!! what are they?? just tell us so we
>can just go buy one. how hard is that?
Laptops for example Lenovo T520.T500
Thinkpad W520 - 4276-37U
The fact is most equipment sold in the shop works. As along as you have
a Realtek gigabit or Intel NIC.
Other machine that works is a ltop
MSI CR61 (just bought 2 months ago). USB, network, video and SMP work
on this box and hard disc controller.
You only need to wipe the Windows 8 partition layout.
>about intended customer. obviously there are some specific applications for
>os/2 such as automation, point of sale, etc. this is good business which
>should get priority.
Vertcial applications thats what we sell eCS to for customers needing
to continue to sell/run there OS/2 application(s).
>I however do not see much reason to update firefox,
>bother with flash, or even in a lot of cases the power management stuff in
>these applications. particularly one doesn't want any machine going to
>sleep that is running a nuclear power plant. these things, specially the
>flash, are in my mind end user products. what i am really getting at is
>don't you think it just simply time to call it quits.
I guess you would be completely suprised to hear that eCS 2011 sales
where the best ever :-)
In terms of it being dead ?

>all of the people who
>have kept OS/2 alive and useable have done an amazing job and i would be
>completely understanding if they moved on to other things (i have smedley
>in mind).
He is still porting software, he is actively working on it (as we
speak).
http://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php?topic=109.msg1027#msg1027> ihle's emperoar tv is an awesome program that with win TVR 350s
>have brought us great utility and pleasure. i notice his site hadn't
>updated this the video stuff; but was happy to see other ventures moving
>forward.
>
>as an aside note i was able to get the own cloud iso version to run in a
>virtual machine under OS/2. it was neat to connect my iPad to the warp
>server.
>
>
>for us SMP and accelarated video ARE REQUIRED. i appreciate you pointing me
>to the tickets.
I hear more people state that accelrated video is required and people
then think of SNAP.
The fact is even SNAP when it works on a modern box in SMP mode it not
always going to be fast.
Most of the accelration comes from SMP and proper MTRR register setup.
I'm typing this message on a Thinkpad T61
in 1680x 1050 with Panorama and video is simply snappy.
SMP support with eCS 2.2 works on all boxes I tested it on. Including a
brand new Trend Micro mainboard from 2012.
In some cases you need to switch of hyperthreading (but the performance
benefit of hyperthreading is doubtfull anyway).
>what this means is that we really can't use os/2 any more
>and we should look elsewhere.
Check down below and find the latest link to the eCS 2.2 beta and try
that!
I get the impression you have a completely wrong picture of how the
situation is unfolding.
>software subscription is active; but, year
>after year of getting no improvements has made os/2 much more expensive
>than windows. we engineering types tend to not appreciate the bean
>counters. yet, they really amazed us when they let us know they took
>microsoft up on the $30 upgrade deal. can you believe it 2 dozen win 8 pro
>licenses for $720. we have run XP in virt pc for os/2 on SMP machines for
>years. we even have win 7 on several using virtualbox. we were the ones who
>said that those who scoffed at the price and need for virtual pc were blind
>and had their heads in the sand.
>
>we wanted to contribute to the firefox project; but, the delay in ecs 2.2
>caused us to spend the money on software subscription and we are indeed
>pissed off about it.
Well sorry for the delay with getting eCS 2.2 out the door. But its by
far the biggest overhaul to OS/2 done
by us. Even somebody who used to work in the IBM PC test lab and wrote
drivers for OS/2 at IBM I'm still in touch with (Richard Jerant). He
is amazed as
to how far we pushed the platform with eCS 2.2.
>wesco
Please don't distribute this link. But the very latest beta ISO you can
download from
Let me know how it works for you.
wesco <xxxxxx@gmail.com>
5/21/13
to Roderick
short feedback for now. mixed results later.
from the point of view of using a pc as a common general purpose computer this beta is very good!! the first beta helped me learn how to install eCS with only a keyboard. never thought i'd need that knowledge. this current one works fine!!! the demo is not bad too!
most of the systems i been working on that are made in the last 3 or 4 years do not have IDE drives. we did have to turn off IDE in the pre boot menu to get our trial system working. maybe it should be off by default.
i have followed the eCS demo thread at os2world. generally for people who have older systems working with eCS 2.o or 2.1 i think only something like the old warp up should be offered. trying the support the old and move forward is too much effort. we consider it bad practice to upgrade an OS in place. there is also the adage: if you have it more or less working, don't %#*& with it.
t520 and w520 AWESOME!! so you can tell everybody eCS supports high end lenovo laptops which i believe should be the only ones supported. the consumer oriented l series, which we have sold several of, have been a bit disappointing quality wise. not really worse than dell (we're a reseller); certainly superior to junky HP and compaq.
home users do not have thousands of dollars to pay you to get brand what ever working. they need to know what to buy now that works. 'course my past experience as a white box pc maker was that buyers wanted os/2 systems at bargain windows prices. i wouldn't play that game because i didn't want the support headaches.
what high end desktops work well??
in short. good job. 2.2 is a major milestone. tweak here, tweak there; then may as well ship it.
Roderick Klein <rwklein@mensys.nl>
5/21/13
to me
On Tue, 21 May 2013 00:51:29 -0400, wesco wrote:
>short feedback for now. mixed results later.
>
>from the point of view of using a pc as a common general purpose computer
>this beta is very good!! the first beta helped me learn how to install eCS
>with only a keyboard. never thought i'd need that knowledge. this current
>one works fine!!! the demo is not bad too!
USB keyboard and mouse works ?
>most of the systems i been working on that are made in the last 3 or 4
>years do not have IDE drives. we did have to turn off IDE in the pre boot
>menu to get our trial system working. maybe it should be off by default.
What do you mean with IDE ?
You use SCSI in your systems ?
> i have followed the eCS demo thread at os2world. generally for people who
>have older systems working with eCS 2.o or 2.1 i think only something like
>the old warp up should be offered. trying the support the old and move
>forward is too much effort. we consider it bad practice to upgrade an OS
>in place. there is also the adage: if you have it more or less working,
>don't %#*& with it.
I can certainly tell you that this is exactly the same attitude that
large company customers have that knock on eComStation door.
And that strategy f#@!# up some of the company customers beyond repair.
To many of these large customers do the same
as you describe above. Until the equipment falls apart. And then some
of them spent ages to try and get Warp 3 or 4 to run on new equipment.
What if I tell you we have company customers that still load eCS on NEW
equipment. And thats being done with eCS 2.2 beta's.
Some customers do not only replace old equipment some customers need to
ship new equipment TODAY.
eCS 2.0 and 2.1 are already 2 and 3 years old. The hardware keeps
evolving!
Thats why this renewal cycle to eCS is needed.
I hope you understand SNAP support will get back on track after release
of eCS 2.2, but stuff like ACPI, USB and storage drivers needed
a big step forward. The boot manager had to be put on scrapyard so you
can dual boot Windows Vista/7.
Primary reason to support loading on native hardware is because our
business customers are asking for this.
I don't know if you have seen that with the Panorama driver that the
video is responsive (not that bad).
Does changes will be ported in SNAP so SNAP can work stable. We will
also work on USB 3.0 support.
>t520 and w520 AWESOME!! so you can tell everybody eCS supports high end
>lenovo laptops which i believe should be the only ones supported. the
>consumer oriented l series, which we have sold several of, have been a bit
>disappointing quality wise. not really worse than dell (we're a reseller);
>certainly superior to junky HP and compaq.
You see the point is I just susggested 2 days ago to a European ca
rmanufactor who needs about 300 licenses that they should get a laptop
with a serial port from HP.
They simply expect that the Dell laptop model they buys works!
Please noet that the new laptops Wifi is currently not supported. But
we are working on porting the latest Intel wifi support to eCS.
>home users do not have thousands of dollars to pay you to get brand what
>ever working. they need to know what to buy now that works. 'course my past
>experience as a white box pc maker was that buyers wanted os/2 systems at
>bargain windows prices. i wouldn't play that game because i didn't want the
>support headaches.
Theae people do the preload
work:
http://www.ecomstation.com/where_purchase.phtml?url=nls/en/content/preloaders.html&title=Preloaded%20Systems
>what high end desktops work well??
>
>in short. good job. 2.2 is a major milestone. tweak here, tweak there; then
>may as well ship it.
Currently the USB stack is getting its last bugs taken out and the
OS2AHCI driver being worked on.