ACPI 3.22.06

[Holger Schuett]

Hi there,
yesterday I installed the acpi 3.22 from Arcae Noae on my Thinkpad X61.(ECS 2.2 Beta)
First off all I would like to say thank you for the continued development of the drivers.
But I do have some questions as I have made some observations concerning Acpi that I do not understand.
Acpi works (I would say very well for the first time on this machine). I have appr. 4 hours power left when running on battery and no programs running.(WindowsXP and Linux showed up to 6 hours, but ok)
Fn-F4 starts suspend and after pushing the power button the system resumes with no apparent problems. Other function keys do not work, so I try to adjust the screen brightness when booting and before ECS is started.
The strange thing is: When booting on battery the time left (shown by the battery widget) is much longer than when booting the machine plugged in to external power supply.
If I boot the machine plugged in and then switch to battery (fully charged) mode the time shown is a max. of 2 hours 15 and the machine tends to get hot quite quickly.
Booting on battery and then plugging in works well.
Has anybody noticed the same on other machines?

Further on I have one questions concerning the Bios-Settings:

I remember having read that with the old acpi (which was for example distributed with ECS 2,1) it was recommended to deactivate the speed step technology in the bios settings. How about the new acpi?

Happy new year
Holger

[Doug Bissett]

4 hours power left when running on battery and no programs running.(WindowsXP and Linux showed up to 6 hours, but ok)

It has been my experience, that Windows, and Linux, don't actually last as long as they say, while eCS, using the latest versions of ACPI actually last a little longer. On the other hand, ACPI doesn't use one of the power saving methods (I don't remember the details), which may be what causes the time discrepancy.

Fn-F4 starts suspend and after pushing the power button the system resumes with no apparent problems.

If Suspend/Resume works, it is just luck. Apparently, that part of the code has not, yet, been completed. There are a few cases where it does work, but most of the time it doesn't.

When booting on battery the time left (shown by the battery widget) is much longer than when booting the machine plugged in to external power supply.

The machine is likely set to run at full power when it is plugged in. The time left is calculated using the amount of power being used. When it is on battery, it uses less power, so it assumes that the battery will last longer.

If I boot the machine plugged in and then switch to battery (fully charged) mode the time shown is a max. of 2 hours 15 and the machine tends to get hot quite quickly.

You probably need to adjust some of the settings in C:\MPTN\ETC\acpid.cfg (READ the instructions). If that file doesn't exist, copy C:\MPTN\ETC\acpid.cfg.sample to C:\MPTN\ETC\acpid.cfg. ACPI will pick up changes on the fly. No reboot is required, just save the file.

I remember having read that with the old acpi (which was for example distributed with ECS 2,1) it was recommended to deactivate the speed step technology in the bios settings. How about the new acpi?

I am not sure about that one. Newer machines don't seem to have a BIOS setting for that. Since using the BIOS speedstep would operate independently of ACPI, I suspect that they could end up fighting with each other (they do the same thing, in different ways). You definitely need to turn off Hyperthreading, if the machine has that feature (but that is for SMP support, not power control). I found that Hyperthreading actually works, but it slows the machine, when using eCS. Some implementations just result in hangs. Hyperthreading definitely helps when using windows.

[Eugene Gorbunoff]

* Does system hang when you adjust brightness?

* Do you use Power charger 90W or 65W?

[eirik]

First of all, Happy 2015.  May it be a good year for eCS users and developers :-)  Recent comments on a new ACPI version (3.22.06) shows promise.  However, the most recent version I found was 3.22.03 (on the Mensys site) which I already use.  Anyone with a pointer to the 3.22.06 downloadable?

Eirik

[Doug Bissett]

Anyone with a pointer to the 3.22.06 downloadable?

It is from Arca Noae. See: https://www.arcanoae.com/, which seems to be a replacement service for Software Subscription, but it is available to more users (even non eCS users). I think that there are only minor tweaks to ACPI 3.22.06 over 3.22.03, but I also know that it is still being developed. That doesn't mean that anybody is working on specific things, like power on/off of modern WiFi adapters, which seems to be done by ACPI now.

At the moment, the exact relationship between Arca Noae, and Mensys, is not very clear, but that seems to be because Mensys has said very little since XEU took over. Arca Noae is still trying to get a feel for what is happening, but they have made enough updates available to justify their fee (IMO).

[eirik]

Doug,

thanks - it was a bit hidden under the Wiki, but I found it :-)

Eirik

[Holger Schuett]

I am not sure about that one. Newer machines don't seem to have a BIOS setting for that. Since using the BIOS speedstep would operate independently of ACPI, I suspect that they could end up fighting with each other (they do the same thing, in different ways)

Doug, thank you for your reply.
This is exactly why I am asking, to prevent the 'fighting as I am not familiar with power saving concepts.
But: I would have expected that the settings in the Bios (for example I have Battery Optimized and Maximum Battery ) would set the range for the cpu and that the acpi settings work within this range.
Otherwise, for what would I need the acpi speaking in terms of power saving?.

Anyone with a pointer to the 3.22.06 downloadable?

Eric, I bought this : https://www.arcanoae.com/product-category/an-products/

* Does system hang when you adjust brightness?

* Do you use Power charger 90W or 65W?

Eugene: No, the system does not hang, because adjusting the brightness by FN+Key does not work at all, I adjust the brightness when the machine starts, but before ECS boots.
The Power charger is 65W

 Thank you all for your replies

[Eugene Gorbunoff]

here is the answer about the behavior of the laptop:

www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X61

->

Notes:
The CPU speed will be throttled back to 800MHz or 1200MHz if the machine is run on the 65W AC adapter with no battery installed. To avoid this throttling
* run on a 90W AC adapter, or
* install a battery pack.

[Doug Bissett]

This is exactly why I am asking, to prevent the 'fighting as I am not familiar with power saving concepts.
But: I would have expected that the settings in the Bios (for example I have Battery Optimized and Maximum Battery ) would set the range for the cpu and that the acpi settings work within this range.
Otherwise, for what would I need the acpi speaking in terms of power saving?.

Actually, I was wrong. There are settings for Speedstep in the BIOS of my Lenovo ThinkPads (T510 and L530, with fewer settings in the L530). I don't touch them, and I expect that they are only used before ACPI takes control. I am pretty sure that ACPI does not make use of those settings (and they may not be available to the OS).

Thinking about it, I don't remember ever hearing that the BIOS speedstep should be disabled. I have definitely never done it (that could be hazardous to the life of the machine).

You do need to adjust the ACPI settings in C:\MPTN\ETC\acpid.cfg or the power savings will not be optimal. Some earlier versions of ACPI don't enable that stuff by default, which means that no power saving is done. The default settings seem to be okay for all machines, but they can definitely be improved, especially for SMP machines. Some experimenting may be required.

Eugene: No, the system does not hang, because adjusting the brightness by FN+Key does not work at all, I adjust the brightness when the machine starts, but before ECS boots.
The Power charger is 65W

FN+Key does work, but only the keys that are supported by the BIOS do anything. Nobody has written the OS/2 software for the rest of them (that would be part of ACPI).

The charger capacity has nothing to do with it, unless you are using one that doesn't supply enough power. That might cause the power to drop back to battery, or it may cause a fire. You need to use a power supply that matches the machine requirements. 65W is sufficient for most modern laptops, and there should be no question about that if it is the original, that came with the machine. Older machines did use 90W power supplies, because they used more power. There would be no reason to use a 90W power supply, if the machine is designed to use a 65W power supply. The connectors are probably different anyway.

Notes:
The CPU speed will be throttled back to 800MHz or 1200MHz if the machine is run on the 65W AC adapter with no battery installed. To avoid this throttling
* run on a 90W AC adapter, or
* install a battery pack.

This could be true, for an X61. That would have been one of the very last machines that would have actually needed a 90W power supply (note that it specifies "with no battery installed"). If that machine was supplied with a 65W power supply, it was an unjustified cost cutting measure, that never should have happened (and could be hazardous). The throttling is probably needed to prevent ripple on the power (due to an under spec power supply) that the battery would filter out.

[Roderick Klein]

I am running ACPI 3.22.06 on a Thinkpad T61. From what I can tell the second CPU core gets switched off when the system is idle and this throttle support is not realy needed. ACPI enables the HLT instruction on the SMP. My T61 runs at about 40 degrees celcius the whole day and lasts about 5 to 6 hours on one battery. It also of course depends on how old your batter is.

[Holger Schuett]

Some experimenting may be required.

Yes Doug, same procedure as every time.But that is the fun about OS2/ECS!!.
Talking seriously: I do have the acpid.cfg, of course. But for example : Right now I booted the system, 'plugged in',temperature immediately rising to 83 Degrees Celsius, but I am using the same configuration as before, booting on battery, the temperature is constantly about 45 degrees.
So either there is a problem apart from the OS or it has something to do with........?

FN+Key does work, but only the keys that are supported by the BIOS do anything. Nobody has written the OS/2 software for the rest of them

I do not understand this remark: When booting I f.e. can use FN+END/Home to adjust the brightness
of the screen as long as the pre-boot screen is shown, I suppose this means the keys are supported by the Bios?As soon as the ECS-Blob appears the Keys no longer work!
Now I did a little experimenting: If I use the old Os2Apic.psd, Rem apm.add in config,sys, I can use the keys for brightness and the FN+ F7 Keys for switching to external Monitor??.
(of course this setup leaves me without the possibility to observe the battery.But this configuration boots without problems, shows both cpus, temperature etc. is no problem)

I am running ACPI 3.22.06 on a Thinkpad T61

Roderick, could or would you perhaps post the settings of your acpid.cfg?.

It also of course depends on how old your batter is.

True for sure, this is an second hand machine and the battery may be old, but this is not the problem. Using the same configuration (Acpid.cfg etc) I would expect a similar behaviour in either situation. Right now the machine is plugged in, Battery at 93%,running on battery (I just unplugged
it) it shows about 2 Hours time left: I can reboot running on battery, and I am confident to have moe than 3:30 left???

Thank you once again for your answers and your patience

Holger

[Doug Bissett]

but I am using the same configuration as before

Depending on how old it is, the file contents, and the defaults, may have changed. Either compare to the sample file, or just replace the old one with the contents of the sample file. The defaults for 3.22.06 should be okay, but may not be ideal.

I do not understand this remark: When booting I f.e. can use FN+END/Home to adjust the brightness

Most of the FN keys are taken by ACPI, but nothing uses them. The ones that ACPI doesn't take are still seen by the BIOS.

[eirik]

Holger,

I am intrigued by your comment

Now I did a little experimenting: If I use the old Os2Apic.psd, Rem apm.add in config,sys, I can use the keys for brightness and the FN+ F7 Keys for switching to external Monitor. (of course this setup leaves me without the possibility to observe the battery.But this configuration boots without problems, shows both cpus, temperature etc. is no problem)

If this works, I should be able to use my Lenovo Thinkpad T410 in eCS when giving presentations rather than switching to the Win partition.  It would make my life a lot easier, and could be nice marketing of eCS (I teach macro economics for 250 students at the university where I work).

In this regard (and before I test), I wonder if you use Snap 3.18 (or similar) or the Panorama (1.06 or earlier) video driver?  The Panorama driver is supposed to be more stable/perform better on SMP systems like my T410, and I am therefore skeptical towards going to Snap.  The reason for asking this question is that I somewhere have stumbled over a comment that due to the way the Panorama driver works, external screen activation is not possible without some major revisions in the Panorama driver.

Eirik

[Doug Bissett]

OS2APIC.PSD will probably support SMP in the T510. It will not support any power saving, and it the machine won't even power off, when you close OS/2 (unless it will also work with the old APM support, which is unlikely). You will need to push the power button. I don't know whether you will be able to use an external video, or not. Please, let us know.

If OS2APIC won't work, you probably don't need it, but it will run in single processor mode.

[Roderick Klein]

OS2APIC.PSD will probably support SMP in the T510. It will not support any power saving, and it the machine won't even power off, when you close OS/2 (unless it will also work with the old APM support, which is unlikely). You will need to push the power button. I don't know whether you will be able to use an external video, or not. Please, let us know.

If OS2APIC won't work, you probably don't need it, but it will run in single processor mode.

I can perfectly understand that people want to run OS2ACPI.PSD but its better to not give this advise. As as far as I can tell with OS2APIC does it run your system in APIC IRQ mode, but I would need to test this. Also the ACPI.PSD prevents a TRAP in the OEMHLP service of the kernel...

OS2ACPI.PSD you can not get support for but for ACPI.PSD you can get support.

As for the BIOS'es keys not working. You need to switch the screen for example to the external VGA port before eCS loads! Then it stays on that port. Its not what you want but I did nit before.

Roderick