Author Topic: OpenOffice 4.1.1 GA - pre-requisite uninstall?  (Read 41520 times)

Dariusz Piatkowski

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Re: OpenOffice 4.1.1 GA - pre-requisite uninstall?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2015, 06:05:56 am »
Hi Doug!

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1) I pulled the pre-req DLL package (AOO-4110-GA-rpm.wpi), extracted the DLLs and tossed them into my \usr\dll location (where I keep these)

That was your first mistake. Either do it with RPM/YUM, or let WarpIn do it. You likely have duplicate DLLs, at different levels.

Well, the only problem with letting WarpIn do it is that it actually could/would not. I have version 1.0.20, and attempting to install the DLL package alone was producing an error message from WarpIn about a missing install script. Sure enough, by looking at the contents you could tell that the intent was to place the DLLs in the OO411 '\program' subdirectory...

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3) left my WPS Integration pieces in place

Uhmmm. Why? AOO4 has it's own (which may be the same program), which doesn't replace the old ones anyway. Of course., since you uninstalled the old OO3.2, the old ones probably point nowhere.

Well, if OO4 did actually have it's own the readme certainly did not spell that out...instead it references the old/separate package:

"...Desktop integration: - support for WPS integration via separate package..."

Anyways, it is up and running here fine.

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5) enabled the DLL high-mem load for CODE only
Ah!, but since you have duplicate DLLs, which ones got modified? I suspect that it is only the ones that got installed by WarpIn, but it could be just the first ones that it found, depending on how it looks for them (don't forget about the ".;" entry in LibPath). I gave loading high a quick try, and it crashed, but I think the problem is caused by stray DLLs that don't match. At least there is an easy backout. My plan now, is to clean up the DLL mess, get it working without loading high, then try it again.

Well, the "highmem enable" object simply calls the highmem.exe in the '\program\ directory and passes the "*.dll" parameter...which means only the local DLLs will be impacted. But you are right...whenever they may be multiple copies of said DLL on a given system there may be potential conflicts between the highmem enabled versions and the OO4 ones. For that very reason I went back to regular setup...so far, no problems...just need to figure out why I can't open any of my countless Lotus123 spreadsheets...LOL...might log a BUG for that...of all file types we have on our platform I'm scratching my head a little about having this problem...none of the previous versions showed it either.

Doug Bissett

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Re: OpenOffice 4.1.1 GA - pre-requisite uninstall?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2015, 08:29:24 am »
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Well, the only problem with letting WarpIn do it is that it actually could/would not. I have version 1.0.20, and attempting to install the DLL package alone was producing an error message from WarpIn about a missing install script. Sure enough, by looking at the contents you could tell that the intent was to place the DLLs in the OO411 '\program' subdirectory...

Yes. That WarpIn installer for the RPM package is very broken. It does NOT put those DLLs where they should be (\eCS\DLL for eCS systems, or \OS2\DLL for OS/2 systems). It also does not allow a user to change the target, if they wish to put them somewhere else (not advisable, but some like to do things like that). Not only that, but if you let it install into the AOO4 Program directory (as if you had a choice), you will have duplicate DLLs, which will, eventually, cause much grief. You do need to extract the files, and put them where they belong. That was causing my problems with Tools-> Options. I suspect that it was also causing the problem where using Highmem crashed. Those DLLs probably should not be included in the highmem change, especially when other programs will use them, and may not have required fixes. The DLLs that do belong in the Program directory can probably be changed with no problem (but I haven't tried that yet).

I will also note here, that there seems to be no problem with leaving OpenOffice 3.2 installed along side of AOO4.Of course system integration goes to AOO4, after the install.

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Why wouldn't you call it GA? Because of 2 problems you are seeing? One of those is caused by your choice not to use rpm. If you don't use what is by now a de facto standard used by several developers (and of course you are entirely free to make that choice) you can expect you'll have to deal with the consequences yourself, i.e juggle with dll's.

I choose to not use RPM/YUM because it causes more problems than it fixes, has very little in the way of user help, when something goes wrong (which seems to happen consistently), and it is not updated in a timely manner (it was only recently that LIBC066 was added to the experimental repository, and it is still not in the normal repository). FWIW, the package handler that Arca Noae is working on makes using YUM easier, as long as nothing goes wrong. It is hampered by the fact that YUM does not return good information when something goes wrong. If it comes down to a choice, I will avoid RPM/YUM like the plague it is. Unfortunately, as you point out, certain developers seem to think it is the only way to do things, but those same developers make ZIP (or WarpIn) files available because they know that RPM/YUM is garbage.

Why not "GA"?, Well, for one thing the WarpIn installer, supplied for the AOO4 RPM package is very broken <see above>. If it was built properly, there would be no problem with it. That is just sloppy work on the part of whoever built the installer, and it was obviously not properly tested.

Sorry, but that is the way it is. This is supposed to be a professional development team. Things like that should not get past their quality testing, and they should know better than to put system DLLs into a program directory. That just causes update problems, and can easily break other programs. Too few people, and too much work, as usual.

FWIW, it appears that the printing problem is caused by trying to use an HP printer with CUPS, although other things print okay. I need to do more work with that, but I expect that a CUPS update will fix it (if that ever gets off the ground).

guzzi

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Re: OpenOffice 4.1.1 GA - pre-requisite uninstall?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2015, 01:56:34 pm »

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Yes. That WarpIn installer for the RPM package is very broken. It does NOT put those DLLs where they should be (\eCS\DLL for eCS systems, or \OS2\DLL for OS/2 systems).

That is an opinion, not a fact. I for one think those DLLs should not be in the eCS\DLL or OS2\DLL directories.

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Those DLLs probably should not be included in the highmem change, especially when other programs will use them, and may not have required fixes.

That's an assumption, not a fact. On what do you base that? I have tested quite a bit with code loaded high for everything in usr\lib without apparent problems. How do you know fixes might be required?


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I choose to not use RPM/YUM because it causes more problems than it fixes, has very little in the way of user help, when something goes wrong (which seems to happen consistently), and it is not updated in a timely manner (it was only recently that LIBC066 was added to the experimental repository, and it is still not in the normal repository).

Again, opinion, not fact. How many people are using rpm, how many have consistent problems with it? I do use rpm, because it does 'fix' quite a lot of problems for me. Most of the ported software needs that comes out now needs the unix based DLLs. RPM installs them all, with proper version and dependency checking. Much easier than doing that all by hand. Warpin can't do that. LIBC066 btw is fairly new, the reason it is in the experimental repo might just be that it hasn't been tested enough?

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Unfortunately, as you point out, certain developers seem to think it is the only way to do things, but those same developers make ZIP (or WarpIn) files available because they know that RPM/YUM is garbage.

Please provide evidence. Where and when did those developers state that "they know RPM/YUM is garbage"?
From netlabs trac for Odin: "We also provide a Zip package of Odin (see below) for your convenience, if you cannot use RPM for some reason" It's rather a big leap from a developer providing something for your convenience to a developer thinking his/her own work is garbage.

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Why not "GA"?, Well, for one thing the WarpIn installer, supplied for the AOO4 RPM package is very broken <see above>. If it was built properly, there would be no problem with it. That is just sloppy work on the part of whoever built the installer, and it was obviously not properly tested.

Perhaps you are mixing up intended behaviour that you don't like with broken.

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Sorry, but that is the way it is. This is supposed to be a professional development team. Things like that should not get past their quality testing, and they should know better than to put system DLLs into a program directory. That just causes update problems, and can easily break other programs. Too few people, and too much work, as usual.

System DLLs?  They aren't system DLLs. They are support DLLs used specifically by programs ported from nix. That is why they either belong in their own place, when you have several of these programs so they can be shared, or in the program directory. If you want to share those DLLs between programs, you will need proper version checking on install, which is why we have RPM. Again, you choose to do it in a different way than the developer has decided, you clean up the mess. Don't go on a rant about quality and start insulting developers, even making up things like they know themselves that their software is garbage, when it is your own mess you are dealing with.

Pete

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Re: OpenOffice 4.1.1 GA - pre-requisite uninstall?
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2015, 03:15:12 pm »
Hi Doug

Maybe you should try cups 2.0 and see if that helps with your printing problem.

I must admit that cups 2.0 was a pain to get working - mainly due to the amount of ported *nix  utilities required which I had to discover 1 at a time by perusing the debug error log after each attempt to print failed - but could be worth the effort. If you like I could put together a list of the required files - and where to unzip them to.

You may also want to investigate the PSPRINT.DRV - http://www.altsan.org/os2/printing/psprint-test-141203.zip - from Alex as an alternative to the ECUPS.DRV if you want to print in colour.


Regards

Pete




Doug Bissett

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Re: OpenOffice 4.1.1 GA - pre-requisite uninstall?
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2015, 04:33:26 pm »
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Maybe you should try cups 2.0 and see if that helps with your printing problem.

I tried to get CUPS 2.0 to go, on another machine (same printer). It won't go. I ran out of time, and haven't got back to it, yet. I am not going to put it on my main machine (where CUPS 1.4.8 seems to work well for everything except AOO4), until I get it working. I also need to dig around in AOO4 to see if there is something that can be changed.

I don't do much printing, and I can print a PDF file (created by AOO4) with PDFView, when I need to.

Doug Bissett

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Re: OpenOffice 4.1.1 GA - pre-requisite uninstall?
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2015, 06:00:22 pm »
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That is an opinion, not a fact. I for one think those DLLs should not be in the eCS\DLL or OS2\DLL directories.

If you want to cause problems, you will not do it as I suggest. Sorry, but ONE location for ALL system DLLs is the only safe way to do it. In fact, it is really questionable if \eCS\DLL should exist. All of that stuff really belongs in \OS2\DLL. If you really want to use RPM/YUM, it puts all of that stuff into a single location, but the only protection against duplicate DLLs, is that they put that location first in LIBPATH.

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How do you know fixes might be required?

How do you know they are not?

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Again, opinion, not fact. How many people are using rpm, how many have consistent problems with it? I do use rpm,

I have been testing the Arca Noae package manager for about a month now. In that time, there have been multiple screw ups caused by YUM, two of them required manual intervention to fix them. I am also told, that Linux is moving away from YUM, to something that actually works.

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Please provide evidence. Where and when did those developers state that "they know RPM/YUM is garbage"?

Actually, that is part of the problem. The ones who are doing it haven't figured that out, yet.

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Perhaps you are mixing up intended behaviour that you don't like with broken.

More likely, I am assuming that it will do what it is supposed to do, and when it fails to do that, I assume it is broken.

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System DLLs?  They aren't system DLLs. They are support DLLs used specifically by programs ported from nix.

There are two kinds of DLLs. One is used only by a single program, and they should be in the program directory. The second are DLLs used by more than one program. They should be in a location available to all programs, therefore I call them "System DLLs". You can call them "support DLLs", if you like, but they still need to be available to the whole system, or something isn't going to work properly. It is also very important to have only ONE copy of a DLL, or version mismatches can occur, and that can result in "sometimes it works, and sometimes, it doesn't". Those things can be extremely difficult to analyze, and fix.

I will note, that there are cases where different versions of a DLL may be required for different programs (XUL.DLL in Firefox, Seamonkey, and Thunderbird, for instance). Those cases require special handling (I highly recommend RUN!), and the specific DLL needs to be in the program directory. It would actually be better if the DLLs were renamed, but that makes more work for those who port things.

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Don't go on a rant about quality and start insulting developers, even making up things like they know themselves that their software is garbage, when it is your own mess you are dealing with.

I am dealing with a badly constructed installer. There is NO EXCUSE for that. It is simply unacceptable for a professional software firm to do things like that. Period. The techniques to do what needs to be done exist, and have existed for some time. It is not rocket science.

Pete

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Re: OpenOffice 4.1.1 GA - pre-requisite uninstall?
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2015, 02:25:30 am »
Hi Doug

If printing from AOO4 results in an entry in the cups error log (debug level) similar to "... not defined in /mdef" then you need to swap to using PSPRINT instead of ECUPS - come to think of it you need PSPRINT if you want  to print in colour from AOO4.

I found that cups 2.0 needed a few *nix utilities added to the mix or printing failed

Also it was necessary to update \tcpip\bin\cupslpr.exe by copying the \cups\bin\lpr.exe (rename during copy) or the OS/2 printing side could not connect with the cups printing side.

I'm going to try to cobble together a brief "How To with cups 2.0" over the next few days - as time permits.

Regards

Pete

Doug Bissett

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Re: OpenOffice 4.1.1 GA - pre-requisite uninstall?
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2015, 05:32:46 am »
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If printing from AOO4 results in an entry in the cups error log (debug level) similar to "... not defined in /mdef"

That seems to be one of the problems (perhaps the only one, the CUPS error log seems to collect a few things that don't matter).

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then you need to swap to using PSPRINT instead of ECUPS - come to think of it you need PSPRINT if you want  to print in colour from AOO4.

I have PSPRINT ready to go. Now, I need to figure out what to do with it.   :)

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I found that cups 2.0 needed a few *nix utilities added to the mix or printing failed

I started to sort that out, but ran out of time. I just haven't got back to it. I will try PSPRINT with CUPS 1.4.8, and see what happens.

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I'm going to try to cobble together a brief "How To with cups 2.0" over the next few days - as time permits.

I know that Alex was working on a WarpIn installer, but I haven't heard anything recently. I do know that he is working on another project. A "how to" would be great.  Thanks...

Doug Bissett

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Re: OpenOffice 4.1.1 GA - pre-requisite uninstall?
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2015, 06:23:37 am »
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I will try PSPRINT with CUPS 1.4.8, and see what happens.

I may have done something wrong, but now AOO4 printing results in "/cups/share/cups/drivers/pscript5.dll: No such file or directory". True, there is no such file.

Other things seem to print, but it was a quick test. More tomorrow, after I get some sleep.

Alex Taylor

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Re: OpenOffice 4.1.1 GA - pre-requisite uninstall?
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2015, 10:38:17 am »
If printing from AOO4 results in an entry in the cups error log (debug level) similar to "... not defined in /mdef" then you need to swap to using PSPRINT instead of ECUPS

Yeah, this was a bug in the last DDK PSCRIPT driver sources that was never fixed in ECUPS.DRV.  (It was seemingly fixed in IBM's later PSCRIPT builds but those aren't very CUPS-friendly.)  It shows up just in AOO because of the way AOO sets per-page job properties (as opposed to most apps, which use per-job properties).

I fixed it in PSPRINT after working with Yuri to isolate it, but for some reason my attempts to backport the fix to ECUPS.DRV failed; I ran out of motivation to dig into exactly why. :P

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come to think of it you need PSPRINT if you want  to print in colour from AOO4.

Only if you have a printer which uses the PostScript ColorModel scheme, AFAIK.  (Although I suppose it's possible that CUPS might force this on for all printers; I've never checked.)

The build I fixed this issue in is not yet on my public website, BTW - since it appears to break greyscale printing on the same models. :/  Still trying to figure out where to go next on that.

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I found that cups 2.0 needed a few *nix utilities added to the mix or printing failed

The discussion about that (on gmane) is one of the reasons I haven't continued with trying to push out a 2.0 install WPI - since the impression I drew from it is that the current build is missing some necessary components, I decided to wait until the discussion either produced a useful conclusion, or else a new build/ZIP came out.  Neither seems to have happened yet...

Time constraints are also a factor, of course. :P

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I'm going to try to cobble together a brief "How To with cups 2.0" over the next few days - as time permits.

That would be useful. :)

mwizard

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Re: OpenOffice 4.1.1 GA - pre-requisite uninstall?
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2015, 04:56:58 am »
I've installed AOO4 along side my OO3.2 install.  My old 3.2 system had WPS integration.  After my install was finished, I found that WPS still uses the older 3.2 instead of the new 4.1.1.  (after a reboot of course)

From what I've read here, I haven't done anything wrong,  If  I have, please share.  If not, anyone have any ideas on how I might get WPS integration to use 4.1.1 instead?

BentBit

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Re: OpenOffice 4.1.1 GA - pre-requisite uninstall?
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2015, 03:41:31 pm »
Mark,

Start Warpin
look for package OpenOffice.org2.0
de-install package

To get the correct associations install OOoWPS103.wpi from ecomstation.com
choose the directory ....apacheopenoffice.4

ivan

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Re: OpenOffice 4.1.1 GA - pre-requisite uninstall?
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2015, 05:58:41 pm »
Mark, you could just run the associations.cmd that is in the AOO 411GA root directory.

mwizard

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Re: OpenOffice 4.1.1 GA - pre-requisite uninstall?
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2015, 07:19:43 pm »
Ivan,  thanks, but running that command yields the following message: This script is to be used only for installation process.

I'll review the script and see if I can remove this requirement.  But anytime I think of doing something like that, I'm left wondering they might have had a good reason to include this requirement in the script.  So, I'm not so eager to rush into such a change.

Leo, do you mean uninstall 3.2  as opposed to 2.0?  I'm not sure I'm ready to uninstall 3.2 just yet.  I hope it never happens, but if I try to open a document I created with 3.2 and it doesn't open with 4.x, I'd like to keep the 3.2 around to edit that document.  Sounds unlikely, but I've  been bitten before by other applications.  If I have to, I'll edit every one of my existing documents in 4.x to make me feel more comfortable and then I'll be much more likely to uninstall 3.2.

-Mark

Follow up:  I've run the command using [boot] and my ApacheOpenOffice4 install directory as parameters.  I'll test before reboot and after a reboot to see if any change in behavior is noted.

It didn't work after the cmd was completed.  Nor did it work after a reboot.  And by work, I mean the associations for WPS still used the older 3.2 version rather than the newer 4.x version when it launched for a document.

Anyone think uninstalling just OOoWPS103.wpi and reinstalling that package with parms that point to AOO 4.1.1 will work ok?  Leo suggest I can choose the directory during that install.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 08:17:13 pm by Mark »

ivan

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Re: OpenOffice 4.1.1 GA - pre-requisite uninstall?
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2015, 09:26:06 pm »
Mark,  If you are prepared to get at the guts of the matter you could use association editor (assoed212.zip on hobbes) and change the associations from 3.2 to 4.1.1.  Just be very careful how you use it and double check before making changes.

I don't know why the script didn't work for you, it did on our test machine.