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OS/2 Distro / Clone Discussion
ivan:
Martin, I too don't want to shut any doors but it is rather strange that Joachim should start two topics which essentially say nothing and then does not answer any of the point raised in those topics.
Regarding an individual compilation of OS/2, while that is possible for individuals (we have disk images for each of our servers and workstations) it does not address the problem of new licences for the base OS/2 - something we can no longer get from IBM. The other idea is to make a DVD of all the programs that are used and individuals might want to install (we have that as well including a /dll directory containing all the extra dlls that it now appears we must have to run anything, the install scripts include adding that /dll directory to the libpath).
If you can work out a way of getting OS/2 without needing a licence then I am prepared to use that version in a disk image and make it available to all. What I would like to see is the whole OS/2 being converted to 64 bit, although 32 bit would do for a start, I know there is a 32 bit CMD implementation but it needs everything from networking (IPV6) and up with some sort of VM built in to enable use of 16 bit windows applications. In other words I would love to see everything (except the win 16) on the WSeB install CD changed up to 64 bit and then have the necessary 64bit drivers included on WSeB CD2. I know it isn't very likely to happen but I too can dream.
Dave Yeo:
--- Quote from: ivan on July 14, 2015, 03:52:52 am ---What I would like to see is the whole OS/2 being converted to 64 bit, although 32 bit would do for a start, I know there is a 32 bit CMD implementation but it needs everything from networking (IPV6) and up with some sort of VM built in to enable use of 16 bit windows applications. In other words I would love to see everything (except the win 16) on the WSeB install CD changed up to 64 bit and then have the necessary 64bit drivers included on WSeB CD2. I know it isn't very likely to happen but I too can dream.
--- End quote ---
The 16bit Windows (and DOS) applications is the easy part, just use DOSBOX, which is quite capable now of running Win16 and many DOS apps, though it won't give you the hardware access that OS/2 does, nor the shared clipboard.
As for 64 bit, what is the point? All the apps are currently 32 bit and will remain 32 bit. If the swapper back end was fixed/extended, could use PAE memory for swap (already possible) and run lots of 32 bit apps, each using 2GB or more memory, though there is still the shared memory problem.
Personally my fantasy is a bit different then Martins. Start at the bottom end and add a OS/2 subsystem to Reactos. I choose Reactos as it is NT compatible and NT was originally designed to run OS/2 and is more similar then Linux.
Write the backend (Doscalls and a few other basic bottom end DLLs) and use the OS/2 binaries for the PMSHELL and WPS until someone rewrites them. The OS4 guys have already sorta done part of the work, though they don't like the GPL, which is what Reactos is licensed as. Once the bottom end is done, you get all the drivers that Reactos supports and that is what we're missing. With a 64bit version of Reactos, it should be possible to get a full 4GB address space per process (2GB for badly written ones).
Still the problem of needing people with the motivation, time/resources and skill to do it.
The big problem is that OS/2 is now so old that a lot of people have grown up thinking that the Windows desktop is the ultimate and it is so ingrained in them that there is so little interest in anything else. Saw it the other day when on Slashdot where someone was dreaming of combining the best parts of all the operating systems. He actually listed the WPS as one of the components in his OS, but there was endless comments by people who basically wanted the Win7 interface.
ivan:
Dave, You know more about the nuts and bolts of the OS than I do from a practical point of view (for which I, and others, are very thankful) and I think I agree with you. It was a quiet night shift - it is a national holiday here today - and I was indulging myself in a nice dream.
I don't care a great deal about what goes on under the WPS as long as the WPS keeps on working as it does at the moment. The only other thing about that from my clients point of view is that whatever acts as the 'engine' must be able to be certified.
My reason for looking at 64 bit is that we have a server that I would love to max out with processors and memory and still use WSeB.
Martin Iturbide:
Hi
Sorry for taking the liberty to slip this forum topic, but I really wanted to discuss it more and not make shift the focus of the other thread.
--- Quote ---Regarding an individual compilation of OS/2, while that is possible for individuals (we have disk images for each of our servers and workstations) it does not address the problem of new licences for the base OS/2 - something we can no longer get from IBM.
--- End quote ---
I complete understand that we can not legally get more licenses without IBM or XEU, but the idea is to make it available for individual OS/2 users that has a license. The goal is not make a OS/2 distro based on IBM binaries, this is only the goal as a first step to keep evolving and moving slowly to a more open OS/2. So this is only the first step, or one of the steps, it is not necessary the final goal.
--- Quote ---Personally my fantasy is a bit different then Martins. Start at the bottom end and add a OS/2 subsystem to Reactos. I choose Reactos as it is NT compatible and NT was originally designed to run OS/2 and is more similar then Linux.
Write the backend (Doscalls and a few other basic bottom end DLLs) and use the OS/2 binaries for the PMSHELL and WPS until someone rewrites them. The OS4 guys have already sorta done part of the work, though they don't like the GPL, which is what Reactos is licensed as. Once the bottom end is done, you get all the drivers that Reactos supports and that is what we're missing. With a 64bit version of Reactos, it should be possible to get a full 4GB address space per process (2GB for badly written ones).
Still the problem of needing people with the motivation, time/resources and skill to do it.
--- End quote ---
Even that I prefer going from top to down, I really think we need someone that starts looking PM under the hood and try to find some strategy to clone it step by step, I also like Dave idea. If it can be possible to clone OS/2 Kernel and Control Program functions to run on other OS (ex ReactOS) and make PM, SOM and WPS think they are still running on OS/2, it will be a great milestone too.
But I really prefer to start with something that can be used on OS/2-eCS today, for example: if we spend two years on making something that the OS/2-eCs will not start to use, it will possible fail, because users will not see it's value. Instead if it something that can be included on OS2-eCS (or any other distro) there will be more motivation for users to know that it is an important part and support it. I remember that I used not to care about Voyager project, it as a great idea and I should supported on its time, but sadly at that time it didn't showed me anything running on OS2-eCS.
Regards
Martin Iturbide:
Hi
I'm also trying to do my part to accomplish this (An open Clone or even a different Distro), even if it is very humble according to my skills and time.
My first step was trying to find out what to clone. Since I need to solve the "What" question, I started to dissect OS/2 in its components and try to document the files and components I'm able to find.
This is why on the EDM/2 wiki I created this category: Components. Even if it is not complete right, I hope it can be a starting point for someone to correct me or improve this pages.
So Dave, if you check "down to top" you have the OS/2 Kernel Components and the Control Program which is the base of OS/2.
OS/2 Kernel Component
The Kernel as a component (no only the OS2KRNL) has several files, so if we try to replace them or see what is available we have:
OS2KRNL - There is no OSS clone, only OS4 Project tweak the kernel. (close source).
OS2LDR - There is a Freeware for non-comercial use available and source code available
SCREEN01.SYS - IBM DDK. Can not be open sourced, but the binary can be produced as freeware.
SCREEN02.SYS - Not necessary, it is only for MCA (Micro Channel architecture)
PRINT01.SYS - IBM DDK. Can not be open sourced, but the binary can be produced as freeware.
PRINT02.SYS - Not necessary, it is only for MCA (Micro Channel architecture)
KBDBASE.SYS - IBM DDK. Can not be open sourced, but the binary can be produced as freeware.
CLOCK01.SYS - IBM DDK. Can not be open sourced, but the binary can be produced as freeware.
CLOCK02.SYS - Not necessary, it is only for MCA (Micro Channel architecture)
RESOURCE.SYS - AFAIK - There is no DDK Source code.
UNICODE.SYS - AFAIK - There is no DDK Source code.
Control Program Components
On the Control Program there are two (not complete) OSS project that can be used to try to create a working clone. The OS2Linux and the OSFree Project. There is also the close source OS4 Project that (I don't know how) they produce a DOSCALL1.DLL alternative. (I don't know if it is from scratch or has other source).
So, I understand that cloning (and/or turning freeware) this components may be hard, but not as impossible as someone may think.
Any more comments that will help me to improve the EDM/2 components page is welcome.
Regards
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