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[Arca Noae] Checked your disk lately?
Doug Bissett:
--- Quote ---Honestly I do not know how long the xwp delay will be when the button is checked. Is it configurable?
--- End quote ---
It is 4 seconds, and produces 4 beeps when it happens.
--- Quote ---If there is no reason other than a workaround for other drivers fault, then this has to be discussed and solved in that driver.
--- End quote ---
I don't think it is the driver that was causing the problem that I had, a few years ago (and I suspect that this might be Pete's problem). It seemed that the driver thought all disk activity was done, but the drive still had some stuff in it's internal cache when the machine finished processing the shutdown, and cut the power. The delay fixed that problem, and 4 seconds at shutdown is hardly noticeable. It probably doesn't need to be more than 1 second, but machines are getting faster, and disk caches are getting bigger, so some delay is probably a good thing. Why not use more time than anybody might think is necessary. 200 ms might be enough, most of the time, but so is 1000 ms. 199 ms may not be enough. Who really cares how long it takes to shut down a machine, as long as it gets done right. This is not a race. Well, I suppose it is a race between getting all of the data written, and pulling the plug. Getting all of the data written is much more important than pulling the plug.
I will note, that I have always had to use /FS on the USB drivers, in that same machine, or the BIOS, very often (3 out of 5), would hang on initializing the USB stuff on a warm boot. It is very rare to have any USB device attached at shutdown (except for the mouse, and the UPS). I never really saw any other problems with USB. BIOS still has a problem initializing the USB, but it is about 1 in 100 with /FS. I have used /FS on other machines, and it doesn't make any difference, so I would suggest that /FS should be the default (why not?).
Andi B.:
--- Quote ---It seemed that the driver thought all disk activity was done, but the drive still had some stuff in it's internal cache when the machine finished processing the shutdown, and cut the power. The delay fixed that problem
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To my understanding that was the reason why SHL added the delay in xwp code. It's another story that this version of xwp source code never found the way to the public until I started uploading betas.
--- Quote --- and 4 seconds at shutdown is hardly noticeable. It probably doesn't need to be more than 1 second, but machines are getting faster, and disk caches are getting bigger, so some delay is probably a good thing. Why not use more time than anybody might think is necessary. 200 ms might be enough, most of the time, but so is 1000 ms. 199 ms may not be enough. Who really cares how long it takes to shut down a machine, as long as it gets done right.
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This all is a workaround for a problem either not understand or not solved in the right way. I consider workarounds only as second best choice. There must be a proper solution and I've no evidence that Steven ones is not the correct one. I'm happy if you can prove the opposite. But for this you have to -
- use the latest AN ACPI
- and the latest xwp beta
- and the 'apcitool shutdown' has to work reliable
- and xwp shutdown does not
- and xwp shutdown with delay does
If all these things are true then we should discuss the proper value of delay. Otherwise I would suggest Pete to look for a real fix for his problem.
I want to say that I do not post this to offend against someone but only cause I want to fix xwp if it has bugs and make it even more perfect.
Doug Bissett:
--- Quote ---To my understanding that was the reason why SHL added the delay in xwp code. It's another story that this version of xwp source code never found the way to the public until I started uploading betas.
--- End quote ---
It sad that there seems to be no mention of what was changed, or why. Actually, that isn't entirely true, there is a list of things that changed, but the average user (including me) has no idea what it is talking about. Whether 200 ms is enough delay remains to be seen. I am not willing to change my main system, yet, but I will change other, less critical, systems (including the one where I had the problem, but it has a different hard disk now), and see what happens.
In Pete's case, he has a problem that sounds like the one that I had, and adding the delay fixed mine, so he should try it. If it fixes it, and he meets the rest of your conditions, I would suggest a longer delay in XWP. He didn't mention which version of XWP, or eWP, he is using, so the delay may work. In any case, I would suggest that the delay be left in the code, for diagnostic reasons, but it could probably be less than 4 seconds.
--- Quote ---This all is a workaround for a problem either not understand or not solved in the right way.
--- End quote ---
There are probably 100 (or more) of those in eCS. In a lot of cases, the work around is necessary because there is no way to fix the problems properly. In other cases, nobody is interested in doing it. And in even more cases, those who might be able to fix them, insist that the problem doesn't exist. I suspect that most of the work arounds come from somebody who can sort it out, who fixed it because they had the problem. The rest of us are left hanging, and anything that somebody can figure out becomes the work around.
While I have your attention, why don't you turn off that annoying animation that is default on XWP shutdown? At least make it so that it is not the default.
Andi B.:
--- Quote ---While I have your attention, why don't you turn off that annoying animation that is default on XWP shutdown? At least make it so that it is not the default.
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Cause for me it is not so much annoying to spend any time on it :). Didn't find much in the doc so how can you disable it?
Andreas Schnellbacher:
Desktop -> Properties -> XShutdown -> Shutdown only
Animation [ ] before shutdown [ ] before reboot
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