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Messages - JTA

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1
OK ... to recap, on the 1st day of Warpstock:

- video/audio streaming ... via youtube link Martin will put up
- q's or other input to warpstock sessions ... use libera IRC link, & Martin will relay into session

I did get into libera without creating an online account, and that's good. I already have a Warpstock (website) account, and wasn't looking to create more to get feeds into Warpstock 2024.

I don't know what others think, but I could envision paying something (up to full registration fee?) to get a more unified single tool approach to video/audio/remote-user-input. It could perhaps be a way for Warpstock to bring in the remote folks (and get them up to parity with being there?), and a way for others and I to officially support the Warpstock conferences, if we can't actually get there in person in a given year ...

Thanks, Martin!


2
IRC ... seems to require "yet another logon account and login process".

Is it possible email questions/comments to someone at the event, or post q's and comments to this forum in a special thread and have them checked by someone at the event?

3
Events / Warpstock 2024 - For folks trying to participate remotely, how ...
« on: September 18, 2024, 05:51:16 pm »
... capable is the remote viewing and participation aspect (video/audio), for those unable to attend in-person this year?

Warpstock website doesn't seem to discuss this much, other than a blurb that suggests if not there in-person, you are SOL (which is one way to sell things).

Video streaming (Martin's video streaming efforts) would seem to allow us to view & hear the sessions. Is there any chance for audio participation, either by hotel setup of audio conferencing, somebody's mostly free audio-conferencing over the internet, someone at the event using their cellphone to tie us in, someone catching the "emailed questions from remote folks" and relaying them in, etc.?

4
Events / Re: Warpstock 2024: Coming? Not Coming? Why?
« on: September 12, 2024, 07:18:41 pm »
Q's extracted from Lewis R. post above:

1. would you come to Warpstock this year?
  - Nothing about the Warpstock site encouraged me to attend in-person ... site must be improved to do a better selling job for OS/2 (why come back to it, why use it, etc.) and ultimately the Warpstock event itself. Take a look at HaikuOS.org and replicate everything. Build interest in Warpstock, starting here ...
  - there absolutely must be a Team OS/2; they have to build interest in everything, everywhere in their geography (OS/2 clubs, etc), all year long, so folks are lined up at the Warpstock locations to see the events. If you build it up, they will come ...
  - both in-person and virtual attendance must be on par, and the warpstock website must make this super-simple (to pay fees, participate, etc.)

2. would sessions on browser functionality make the difference?
  - there must be a "chocolatey" cli install tool for OS/2 (not ANPM, not yum, which are linux tools and which themselves get in the way); whomever creates a browser solution gets the (user) install done with a simple "choco install ThisNiftyBrowser"  ... perhaps "Warp install ThisNiftyBrowser"
  - Warpstock site must have the package list, similar to chocolatey.org
  - there must be well-defined solutions for modern browser access inside OS/2 (AToF & winflector solution provides any modern browser within OS/2)

3. Would sessions on how to use the platform for daily computing make the difference?
  - possibly ... but definitely have Team OS/2 do this, with every team member coming up with tutorials; each team member works with one or more SME's, builds the tutorial. depending on what they came up with, I might attend in-person
  - have a warpstock website suggestion box to catch idea/tutorial requests
  - for the most popular sessions, do live sessions at each location
  - How to solve every technical difficulty with OS/2; bring a laptop & SSD, we'll have you set up with AToF before the session is over (the Warpstock USB Key does the heavy lifting).

4. what would make the trip worthwhile vs watching a live stream
  - building up so much interest in OS/2 (thanks to Team OS/2 activities all year-long), that I absolutely must attend the in-person event nearest me, vs virtual, just to catch the buzz and receive the event largesse (usb key, coffee cup, etc.). Some event items will ONLY be at the in-person locations?
  - USB key (given away at the event, part of event fee) boots directly into OS/2 and demonstrates things; warpstock site mirrors this
  - coordinate the Warpstock event across geographies, such that there are two simultaneous events in east/west usa, two in north/south australia (north covers asia-pacific?), and equivalent for europe; it doesn't matter which location you are at, you are there at Warpstock.
  - roadmaps ... not just ArcaOS' product roadmaps, but roadmaps for OS/2. a roadmap for each of:
    - Team OS/2 (what they did the past year, what they will do next year, are you Warped enough for recruitment, etc.)
    - OS/2 dev (code camps, system setups, etc)
    - getting more apps to OS/2 (LibreOffice, ...)
    - getting apps to do the OS/2 thing (wps, objects)
    - getting past 64-bits for now (AToF and Winflector does this)
    - getting to 64-bits (WorkplaceOS-like on sel4/Nova microkernel)
    - and many more ...

Hope this helps ...

5
Events / Re: Warpstock 2024: Coming? Not Coming? Why?
« on: September 11, 2024, 01:50:45 pm »
I drive vs fly, and Pittsburgh is a tad too far from the Colorado area, so I'll be watching the stream this year ...

I hope Warpstock can bring parity to both sides (conference & virtual attendance), including local clubs video conferencing to the national meetup ... which requires more local clubs. This will be my first virtual attendance.

Basically, I don't understand Warpstock (the .org & website), as that site seems woefully out of date. I can get at historical info, but ... Huge gaps, no (OS/2) news, etc. NO ROADMAPS (here on the site) = no future?

I couldn't tell anyone what any of the roadmaps for OS/2 are ... I think they are:

1. modernize the OS/2 platform ... this is ArcaOS, mostly for commercial purposes(?), but also for consumers. Basically, get ArcaOS onto more modern computing equipment, with more device driver support. OS/2 remains 32-bit.
  - I don't run OS/2 directly on real hardware ... it's too problematic, with 64-bit issues, hardware issues, etc.
  - I do virtualize, and feel that there are "no problems" and "64-bit access to everything", on one machine (even in OS/2)
  - got no traction this past year on a native 32-bit Winflector client for OS/2 (even though a native 32-bit linux client exists (meaning it's 90% done?). A native OS/2 winflector client would've brought very seamless 64-bit apps to OS/2 (the OS/2 browser html5 approach still works, as I demo'd in Warpstock '23, but not as seamlessly). ArcaOS is not driving this, and needs to be?

2. bring more (young) people to OS/2 ... can't find a roadmap for this
  - how does one develop for OS/2 ... what is the perfect dev environment; I couldn't really find anything to give to a kid wanting to develop. nothing ties together.
  - how does one do all of the modern things alongside a not-so-modern OS; as it stands today, I couldn't attract my kids to OS/2 as a single OS on real hardware.
  - what is the platform of the future, that the kids will be driving (hint: I think it's virtualization)

3. get OS/2 on top of 64-bits ... can't find a roadmap for this
  - I did post a thread recently with loose roadmap ... not enough feedback, other than continue on my own until I hit a roadblock. One person was kind enough to say it'll never happen, but I can't put this in the sales pitch slide deck.
  - I run OS/2 on a single modern platform, 64-bits, zero hardware/software problems ... but it requires virtualization; very few realize they can virtualize with today's hardware, and run any os. My scheme (AToF) is not currently packaged to be downloadable, and needs to be.

OS/2 is what it is (at the moment) ... I am just trying to understand where OS/2 is going, much like where Haiku is going ... both were excellent OS's in their original time, and both are still relevant in modern times, but with seemingly different trajectories & futures. Haiku seems to be going somewhere ...

Could we just compliment the Haiku folks, by lifting the Haiku website look & feel for Warpstock?

Hope this helps ...

6
Virtualization / Re: 64-bit job control in OS/2, via AToF
« on: September 06, 2024, 05:57:11 pm »
My process has always been something like:

1. first, make it work
2. then, make it work right
3. finally, make it work better

So, to get 64-bit stuff "into" OS/2, I had to figure out the AToF methods (virtualization of everything on one machine, which presents 64-bit apps inside of OS/2), and this job control method running under AToF (which presents 64-bit job output into OS/2). This all works, so it fits #1 and was done fast ... either method gets just about any 64-bit app or app output into OS/2!

Doing API work seems to fall under #2 (for me), as there is a ton of programming to do ... it's better than job control, but obviously much harder to get done. At various times, some programmers have done bits & pieces of this, per threads in this forum, but this hasn't seemed to get anywhere?

Not sure, because I don't have OS/2 Warp for Powerpc (old microkernel version of OS/2) up and running to explore things (and this might not come to pass), but this seems to be #3 ... replacing the old microkernel with a modern seL4 microkernel, and building the OS/2 pieces on top of that.

7
Relative to Neil's post (but without the programming), it would be possible to do simple job control, and have OS/2 initiating 64-bit actions on other 64-bit machines, and getting results back into the OS/2 session. For more detail, look at:

  os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,3716.0.html

If all the effort is kept on an AToF machine, there would be less latency & complexity, as all task activity happens on multiple VM's local to your single AToF machine.

We do have python on OS/2, so you could make python API calls from OS/2 to a backend 64-bit program providing an API (somewhere out there, VM on your AToF machine, another physical machine on your network, the internet). Being python, you could program away to your heart's content. If this is what you meant, it's a great idea, Neil.

8
Virtualization / 64-bit job control in OS/2, via AToF
« on: September 04, 2024, 05:20:38 pm »
In an AToF machine, the HostOS (Windows 10 for example) provides 64-bit functionality, the NTFS filesystem, and other services. ArcaOS (or OS/2), running in a virtualbox VM with guest tools installed, can access that HostOS 64-bit capability via the shared filesystem and "jobs".

For example:

1. You can place all of your OS/2 data files on "z:", which actually resides on the HostOS (NTFS); it can be managed and backed up by the HostOS, with 64-bit tools, automatically.

2. create & "drop" a command string into a jobs folder on the same shared volume, to execute a 64-bit tool on the HostOS like WizTree64.exe, which scans file sizes on z: and produces a graphical map to find excessively large files.

3. HostOS, perhaps with regina rexx (or a service, or powershell), watches job folder, parses and executes the job's command string, screen captures the graphical result, and returns job results to a sub-folder.

4. OS/2, perhaps with REXX, scans subfolder for job results, displays the .png, and you see the output of WizTree64, and know what files are currently taking up the most space in your data location's filesystem.

5. This is not interactive, but you could leave the graphical WizTree program running, and if the screen capture results sent to OS/2 justify it, you can switch to the HostOS desktop, and drill down further ... or, the WizTree program reaches a time limit, and exits, while you remain in OS/2.

OS/2 is executing 64-bit commands or programs on the HostOS, against *your* OS/2 data files, and results flow back to and are visible in your OS/2 desktop ... all via relatively simple job control scripting.

This isn't going out over the network, so no TCP/IP configuration or programming, it's just VM to HostOS integration via VirtualBox guest tools, and simple task scripting, along with numerous 64-bit apps running on the HostOS. As fast as you drop jobs into the job folder under OS/2, the HostOS is processing them, and returning results to OS/2.

There's really no limit to what can be done ... consider:
  - utilizing Wolfram Engine (free math tool running on the HostOS), and you could be executing complex math from OS/2, or sending AI queries from OS/2 out to Wolfram AI services via the Wolfram Engine, and getting AI results back into OS/2.
  - running 16-bit Wordstar or Wordperfect (dos, dos/win) under OS/2, creating documents, and then post-processing them into PDF's or other document conversions (on the HostOS) you might need.

Extend this with nearly any 64-bit application you can conceive of, as long as you can initiate it via external commands, or scripting and/or job language. Rexx or other scripting languages can make the job control effortless.

To give it a try ... AToF your system and see all it can do for you and your OS/2 efforts. More AToF details at:

    os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,3498.0.html

9
If one is considering multiboot solutions, then this could be a case where an AToF machine really shines for WordStar and other old non-OS/2 apps ...

The (old) special purpose DOS or WIN apps (WordStar, others) get their own VM running a more native OS that matches the app version, or a modern emulator that extends more features to the old DOS/WIN app. Plus, it's all windowed, alongside OS/2 running in its own VM(s), under one HostOS.

A VM running a more recent DOS 6.22 or DR-DOS 7 should be perfect, or even a Win VM running DosBox-X, to get access to more recent file/networking/printing features.

OS/2 offers a better dos than dos, and a better win than windows, but that was tied to specific OS timeframes of some decades ago. A VM solution should be able to do much better these days. AToF should help ...

10
With the AToF solution, I think I no longer need (or perhaps even care about) a 64-bit version of OS/2 ...

If you'll recall, AToF provides for a 64-bit Host OS (linux or windows), a virtualization program (Virtualbox), and OS/2 or ArcaOS is running in a VM. 64-bit apps are provided to OS/2 in a browser (Firefox) via Winflector; or, the entire AToF platform allows windowed access on the same PC to other os's (HostOS or other OS VM's) running 64-bit apps. OS/2 stays at 32-bits, but none of the current crop of hardware/software problems are there under AToF. More AToF details at:

  os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,3498.0.html

It remains fun to think about a 64-bit OS/2, though ...

Of course, getting to a 64-bit OS/2 "the old way" (writing it from the ground up) is near impossible, because of IBM "licensing issues" & such, where the source code for OS/2 itself most likely never gets opened up. Are there any alternatives, short of clean-slate rewrites of each piece of "existing" OS/2? With no money, this clean-slate approach also remains unavailable.

But, is a new way opening up for us? A thought exercise is that a "microkernel" and "workplace OS" (a new form of OS/2, kinda/sorta already done, but later abandoned by IBM) approach would get us there, and some of the pieces are getting tantalizingly closer ...

The microkernel part is complete, and it appears we can bring up a 64-bit microkernel (seL4) on pc hardware (and other platforms). The IBM Workplace OS microkernel (mach) is replaced by an *existing* seL4 microkernel (NOVA, based on seL4). OS/2 was up and running on the Mach microkernel. We can now swap out Mach for NOVA (seL4). To keep up with the interesting work in this area, look at Genode Lab's efforts on:

  - the Genode OS Framework
  - the NOVA microkernel (seL4)
  - Sculpt OS (which we would want to replace with Workplace OS pieces)

The OS/2 part would be the other elements of IBM's Workplace OS, which hopefully doesn't have the same license restrictions, as IBM & partners were going a clean-slate route for development (hopefully, no Microsoft code remains in there). Instead of being layered on Mach, they are layered on NOVA.

I can't pursue this any further (even on paper) until I can get the original Workplace OS up and running in some form of virtualization or emulation ... most likely, it will be with QEMU. I believe I've found all the Workplace OS bits and pieces, but don't think I'll be ready to show something at this year's Warpstock. It looks like I can get there, though. Virtualization or emulation would enable more poking around on how Workplace OS did it's thing, which in turn would enable something more like a roadmap:

1. done (Genode solution): get a microkernel up and running on PC hardware
2. wip: get Workplace OS up and running under emulation ... enable more investigation of OS/2 in this environment
    - I could find that I still don't have all the pieces, but, some progress
    - don't know how to ask IBM for missing pieces; ignoring licensing, for the moment, unless it actually starts working.
3. determine how to rewrite the OS/2 pieces on top of an existing microkernel
  - will IBM open up the Workplace OS parts? That would jumpstart things ...
  - if they won't, can these piece be clean-slated?

Again, I'm fairly happy running OS/2 as a 32-bit OS in an AToF solution, because AToF takes care of all my 64-bit needs, on one PC. I also no longer need 16-bit DOS or 16/32-bit Windows, each under 32-bit OS/2, because they are available under AToF, and run with no problems in other VM's.

AToF does enable virtualization and emulation, so it's actually quite fun to attempt going down the Workplace OS rabbit hole, and to see how far I can actually get. It won't cost me anything but some emulation time & effort ... if successful, that would get item 2 on the above roadmap done.

Your thoughts?

11
Virtualization / Re: Setting 4k resolution for VMWare guest
« on: August 20, 2024, 10:11:25 pm »
On VMware's product (support) site, you can find notes like:

"Only Workstation 6.x and later virtual machines support specifying resolution settings and setting the number of monitors that the guest operating system can use."

I couldn't determine if lack of OS/2 guest tools is what blocks the .vmx file settings from taking place, or if your VM "machine type" (what VMware officially supports for an OS/2 VM) is the problem. If you can't change the machine type, perhaps you can invoke VMware support, through their forums or whatever route is open to you.

For a virtualization platform to not have guest tools support for an OS spoke volumes to me as to what the overall level of support for that OS was going to be like. Diminishing over time at best, and it's been awhile since VMware had support for OS/2.

While I use VMware Workstation and Virtualbox at the same time on my computer (both are type 2's hypervisors, and each running a VM), perhaps there is some condition I've not found yet, where they both can't run without interfering with each other ... interesting.

Hope this helps ...

12
Virtualization / Re: Setting 4k resolution for VMWare guest
« on: August 20, 2024, 02:03:03 am »
I don't believe you'll get there with VMware Workstation as the virtualization platform, as VMware does not provide "guest tools" for OS/2 or ArcaOS. For what can be done within VMware, look at ArcaOS's page:

arcanoae.com/wiki/arcaos/installation-planning/virtual-machine-configuration/

If you switch to VirtualBox (free from Oracle), they do provide a reasonable set of guest tools, and these should work for ArcaOS (they did in my testing). Furthermore, these additional web pages discuss "the blonde guy's" efforts for video improvements under ArcaOS, and additional ArcaOS tweaks for VirtualBox. Perhaps these will get you closer:

blondeguy.com/computer/sodium.html  (which then refers to another ArcaOS page)
arcanoae.com/wiki/arcaos/post-install-tips-hints/other-oracle-vm-virtualbox-tweaks/

ArcaOS will provide the guest tools when you install ArcaOS under VirtualBox ... if you're instead running Warp or thereabouts under VirtualBox, you'll need to hunt down the older VirtualBox guest tools for OS/2, provided by NetLabs.org, at:

trac.netlabs.org/vbox

Additionally, there are further tweaks out there to use Virtualbox tools to manage GPU settings in a vm (if Windows is the Host OS) ... something like:

vboxmanage modifyvm "YourVMName" --vram 256

and pointing Virtualbox.exe at a dedicated Nvidia display adapter. I have only lightly tested some of this, and I did manage to get a VM with improved graphics capability, but I didn't test a bunch of cases. Hopefully, the internet will provide those tweak explanations for you. Again, that's with Virtualbox, which does have a level of guest tools support for OS/2 and ArcaOS.

Hope this helps ...

13
Time travel (sort of) is indeed possible ... from the flames of the Hobbes pyre, arise OS/2 Warp (3.0 thru 4.52), as in, the years those OS's were prevalent, and everything just worked (mostly). The OS, and the zillions of applications and utilities of the time!

With the shuttering of Hobbes 1.0, something amazingly beneficial came out of it ... a massive, 20gb collection of every single file and associated data for that file. If you were quick, and had the resources & time available, you downloaded that thing. It now sits on inexpensive mass storage (in my case, my Synology NAS). I didn't have to spend hours getting into Hobbes, going through it's i/f weirdness in finding/downloading things, and finding the gems within. I just d/l'd the whole mess, and now it's offline and much more accessible for my form of rummaging.

Note that many of these files, programs, whatever, could have a hard time running on today's (ArcaOS) OS/2 ... Martin and others do a heck of a job dragging these out, testing, updating notes and/or programs, and sticking it back into Hobbes 2.0

But, I enjoy time travel (that virtualization affords me), and specifically, I want to visit the years of OS/2 Warp 4.52. I may even want to go back as far as OS/2 3.0. While I'm at it, why limit myself to OS/2, as I can also go back as far as DOS, or even CP/M. Or sideways to other OS's entirely. It's the AToF system that allows this to happen, and easily at that. If you haven't AToF'd a system these days (and why haven't you, and what can I do to make it easier for you?), the details are in the virtualization subsection of the OS2World forum ... any of the articles with AToF in the subject, and numbered so you know where to start. With an AToF system, there are no issues with OS's, browsers, applications, etc. ... it all just works, and you can run the OS's you want.

This also means we can run the old stuff, and do new things with it. Including OS/2 Warp 4.52, or any of the earlier versions. In very short order, you can bring these OS's up alongside your production OS's, on an AToF system. And that is what enables the time travel magic.

In my OS/2 Warp 4.52 vm (one of many), and with a bit of rummaging thru the Hobbes archive locally (all 20GB's of it), I can run stuff as it was developed over 25 years ago or more. It is easy as pie to move things around, test them, figure out what was going on, and experience it the way it was back then! That is indeed "Time Travel"!

While many of these utilities might run on a modern ArcaOS system (or in my case, an ArcaOS vm), it has offered me endless hours of exploration (and enjoyment) to build up a 4.52 vm or three, and run many of the Hobbes apps in that vm. Exploring one app or utility usually leads to many others, and with the massive Hobbes archive at my fingertips, it's all right there, instantly available.

Don't limit yourself to just the exploration of the typical utilities and programs of that time period. You can use the same techniques to build up a *dev environment*, going back in time to a point where all of the IBM dev tools work, and work well together, just as they did back then (if you have access to the dev tools of those day, and with archive.org, who doesn't have access to them?). In no way is this a slight to all who have and continue to develop the tools to perform dev magic within ArcaOS today ... thank you for that incredible service. But, I can bring up a dev environment vm from back then, of any form (C, CPP, Basic, Rexx), using the tools of that time period, and amazingly, they all work like they did back then! Beyond Hobbes, this opens up the IBM Developer Connection CD's, and more! Massive amounts of information, and immediately actionable!

I hope this article helps others to enjoy the same kind of time traveling I've been doing ... no drugs needed to get warped, or go on a journey (of the mind); just an AToF system, archive.org, the massive Hobbes download, and possibly a hideout from the rest of the family where you can get some screen time.

You'll be time traveling in ... well ... no time!

I won't be attending this year's Warpstock ... I'm trying to automate wildfire suppression (yes, I'm a volunteer firefighter), and I have an entry (a method to autonomously detect and suppress a wildfire in early stages) in the XPRIZE Wildfire Challenge. I've been tied up for the past two years, and easily a few more into the future. While I got a Warpstock 2023 presentation out, I can't squeeze one in for 2024 ...

But, anyone else is welcome to take this article, and build a presentation out of it for the upcoming Warpstock! The virtualization message, and the form of time travel that it enables, needs to get out there! Many of the virtualization articles have 1000's of views ... if that isn't "interest", I don't know what is!

Post what comments you think will help in building this out into a Warpstock presentation!

14
Virtualization / Re: ArcaOS in VirtualBox and mouse.
« on: April 05, 2024, 01:21:44 pm »
Not sure what version of vbox you are using, and on what Host OS?

Only similar problem I can find, with a bit of googling, is that within vbox, this kind of problem could be caused by your ArcaOS vm settings, display, monitor count being set to anything other than 1.

You can also test a brand new install of ArcaOS (from your registered ISO) into a new vm, and don't fiddle with the vm settings too much, until you know if that new test vm has the mouse issue or not. ArcaOS comes with a set of vbox drivers built-in, so you should be able to test the issue right away.

Hope this helps ...

15
Storage / Re: Boot from iscsi or fiber channel
« on: February 13, 2024, 03:46:19 pm »
I would offer that you can build up a Windows or Linux OS that boots diskless in your corporate environment. All infrastructure is 64-bit (OS, hba software, etc.), and the OS is up and running.

On that minimal HostOS that now has all the infrastructure in place, run only Virtualbox and ArcaOS within a VM, and run that VM full-screen. Within the VM, ArcaOS has access to all resources of the HostOS, including 64-bit apps. If the HostOS can provide it, most likely ArcaOS can access it virtually. At this point, you've captured the ArcaOS setup via the HostOS, wrt backups & such.

You'll need to license ArcaOS, and most likely Virtualbox (in a corporate environment), in addition to whatever HostOS requirements might be needed for ISCSI, FC, etc.

Look in the Virtualization category of OS2World for all the AToF documents which describe the approach to virtualizing ArcaOS, and which gets you around all this device driver grief.

Hope this helps!

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