OS2 World Community Forum

OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - Technical => Web applications => Topic started by: Martin Iturbide on January 04, 2022, 10:16:07 pm

Title: The MicroWeb DOS web browser
Post by: Martin Iturbide on January 04, 2022, 10:16:07 pm
Hi.

Today I read about this text web browser for DOS.
- https://github.com/jhhoward/MicroWeb/releases/download/v0.51/MICROWEB.EXE (https://github.com/jhhoward/MicroWeb/releases/download/v0.51/MICROWEB.EXE)

It works on DOS full screen on my ArcaOS 5.0.7 VM, but I have no network under DOS.

Can someone please give me some tip or pointer on how to set the network on VDM DOS?

Regards

 
Title: Re: The MicroWeb DOS web browser
Post by: Dave Yeo on January 04, 2022, 11:00:47 pm
Hi Martin, not sure if you can enable networking in a DOS session. The place to start is x:\TCPIP\dos\bin but might only be for WinOS2.
You could always try installing whatever network stack goes with the MicroWeb browser and hope it doesn't use long file names.
Title: Re: The MicroWeb DOS web browser
Post by: Ibrahim Hakeem on January 05, 2022, 12:02:15 am
Hi Dave, I'm sure I must be missing something here... but I thought networking works in DOS sessions out of the box, since you're able to ping from one.
Title: Re: The MicroWeb DOS web browser
Post by: Dave Yeo on January 05, 2022, 12:56:24 am
Hi Dave, I'm sure I must be missing something here... but I thought networking works in DOS sessions out of the box, since you're able to ping from one.

So you can, never tried before. Still trying the microweb browser, it complains about no network interface available so something is missing.
Title: Re: The MicroWeb DOS web browser
Post by: Roderick Klein on January 05, 2022, 01:16:12 am
Hi.

Today I read about this text web browser for DOS.
- https://github.com/jhhoward/MicroWeb/releases/download/v0.51/MICROWEB.EXE (https://github.com/jhhoward/MicroWeb/releases/download/v0.51/MICROWEB.EXE)

It works on DOS full screen on my ArcaOS 5.0.7 VM, but I have no network under DOS.

Can someone please give me some tip or pointer on how to set the network on VDM DOS?

Regards

As Ibrahim already explained TCP/IP support is working in the DOS VDM.
I think the issue is that the web browser is expecting a different interface then can be found in the DOS VDM.

https://github.com/jhhoward/MicroWeb

Network setup
MicroWeb uses Michael Brutman's mTCP networking library for the network stack. You will need a DOS packet driver relevant to your network interface. You can read more about configuring DOS networking here.

I do not know how you can get the Brutman mTCP interface to work. https://www.brutman.com/mTCP/
Very quickly reading I think its expects an Ethernet driver under DOS to talk to. But I only read this extremely quickly this link.

Roderick
Title: Re: The MicroWeb DOS web browser
Post by: Olafur Gunnlaugsson on January 05, 2022, 02:27:38 am
VDOSTCP.SYS emulates a Windows TCP/IP stack interface, MicroWeb uses a DOS TCP/IP stack (mTCP) that relies on DOS packet drivers, which are different to the Windows packet drivers, they are a bit more like early Unix an Linux packet drivers. It might be possible to configure the program to use the native stack .

It is possible to run DOS packet drivers in a DOS session if you disable the DOS/2 networking, but not recommended, FTP Software (the company) also sold a TCP/IP stack for OS/2 that had a VDD that allowed DOS sessions to use DOS packets via emulation, but alas that is impossible to get hold of these days. The Essex Systems stack also had some VDD trickery, but I cannot remember it it supported the FTPS packets specification.

You can also try the Archane browser, it used to work with Windows sockets/packets in an OS/2 DOS window, it saw some updates in the last two years.
http://www.glennmcc.org/arachne/
Title: Re: The MicroWeb DOS web browser
Post by: Dave Yeo on January 05, 2022, 06:07:54 am
Also found a port of Dillo at https://sourceforge.net/projects/fltk-dos/files/Applications/Binary%20versions%20of%20FLTK%20applications/DILLODOS-302b.zip (https://sourceforge.net/projects/fltk-dos/files/Applications/Binary%20versions%20of%20FLTK%20applications/DILLODOS-302b.zip) supports graphics and HTTPS but once again fails due to no packet driver found.
Title: Re: The MicroWeb DOS web browser
Post by: Sean Casey on January 05, 2022, 04:44:02 pm
It is possible to run DOS packet drivers in a DOS session if you disable the DOS/2 networking, but not recommended, FTP Software (the company) also sold a TCP/IP stack for OS/2 that had a VDD that allowed DOS sessions to use DOS packets via emulation, but alas that is impossible to get hold of these days. The Essex Systems stack also had some VDD trickery, but I cannot remember it it supported the FTPS packets specification.

Is it true these older OS/2 TCP/IP and NetBIOS over TCP implementations used proprietary APIs which limited their use to only the network applications/services that were distributed with these packages? 
Title: Re: The MicroWeb DOS web browser
Post by: Martin Iturbide on January 05, 2022, 07:06:14 pm
Thanks for feedback.

So, MicroWeb DOS web browser can not connect to the internet because it uses "mTCP" and those does not works on our VDM DOS sessions, and it seems there is not as easy as change a VDM DOS settings to make it work.

I will try to contact the mTCP author to see if he has some time to try OS/2 on some VM and see if he wants to support DOS VDM too.

Thanks.
Title: Re: The MicroWeb DOS web browser
Post by: Martin Iturbide on January 06, 2022, 02:01:23 am
Hi

I got this reply from Mike, the mTCP author.

Quote
I wrote mTCP to bring networking to my old computers.  Think about machines like the original IBM PC (1981), the PCjr (1983) and the PC AT.  mTCP works fine in an emulated machine, and possible even in a virtual DOS machine.  But it needs a packet driver which has direct and exclusive access to a network card.  And it provides its own TCP/IP implementation.

If you want to use the networking available in a DOS VDM the programs need to be rewritten to use those networking APIs directly.  I don't think that is a huge problem, but some quick Googling did not give me any information on what that network API even looks like.  Do you have any links on what the network API for DOS VDMs looks like?

Do you know by chance the API that the DOS VDM uses for networking?

Regards

Title: Re: The MicroWeb DOS web browser
Post by: Roderick Klein on January 06, 2022, 11:27:31 pm
Hi

I got this reply from Mike, the mTCP author.

Quote
I wrote mTCP to bring networking to my old computers.  Think about machines like the original IBM PC (1981), the PCjr (1983) and the PC AT.  mTCP works fine in an emulated machine, and possible even in a virtual DOS machine.  But it needs a packet driver which has direct and exclusive access to a network card.  And it provides its own TCP/IP implementation.

If you want to use the networking available in a DOS VDM the programs need to be rewritten to use those networking APIs directly.  I don't think that is a huge problem, but some quick Googling did not give me any information on what that network API even looks like.  Do you have any links on what the network API for DOS VDMs looks like?

Do you know by chance the API that the DOS VDM uses for networking?

Regards

Hmmm I do not know if this is even documented somewhere with some examples how to write code to acess this interface.
VDOSTCP.SYS is most likely the driver providing this interface...

https://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32026
Mentions:
IBM TCP/IP for DOS 2.1.1 Programmer's Toolkit

The very few times I used the WIN/OS2 TCP/IP stack it crashed my system most cases. So I am not 100% certain how stable it this VDM TCP/IP support.


Roderick
Title: Re: The MicroWeb DOS web browser
Post by: Martin Iturbide on January 07, 2022, 03:33:20 pm
Hi

So, I need to  find the documentation inside the  "IBM TCP/IP for DOS 2.1.1 Programmer's Toolkit".

On the "IBM TCP/IP VERSION 2.0 FOR OS/2 (https://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?htmlfid=897/ENUS293-410&infotype=AN&subtype=CA&appname=skmwww)" announcement there are some references to something called "DOS/Windows Access Kit"

Quote
DOS/WINDOWS ACCESS KIT:  This facility allows DOS applications written to the IBM TCP/IP for DOS Version 2.1 programming interfaces, and Windows applications written to the Windows Sockets API Version 1.0 or Version 1.1 specifications to run in an OS/2 environment on top of IBM TCP/IP Version 2.0 for OS/2.  This product requires the customer to have the OS/2 Version 2.1 operating system installed.

I'm still trying to find something on a package of TCP/IP 2.0 for OS/2, but I still haven't find that documentation.

Regards
Title: Re: The MicroWeb DOS web browser
Post by: Martin Iturbide on January 07, 2022, 04:17:44 pm
Hi

Checking also this book: "gg243531 TCPIP 2.0 for OS/2 Installation and Interoperability (https://archive.org/details/gg243531/page/n255/mode/2up)", chapter 13.

I found these pages (attached), but still no API documentation.

Regards
Title: Re: The MicroWeb DOS web browser
Post by: Olafur Gunnlaugsson on January 08, 2022, 03:46:34 pm
Hi

So, I need to  find the documentation inside the  "IBM TCP/IP for DOS 2.1.1 Programmer's Toolkit".

On the "IBM TCP/IP VERSION 2.0 FOR OS/2 (https://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?htmlfid=897/ENUS293-410&infotype=AN&subtype=CA&appname=skmwww)" announcement there are some references to something called "DOS/Windows Access Kit"

Quote
DOS/WINDOWS ACCESS KIT:  This facility allows DOS applications written to the IBM TCP/IP for DOS Version 2.1 programming interfaces, and Windows applications written to the Windows Sockets API Version 1.0 or Version 1.1 specifications to run in an OS/2 environment on top of IBM TCP/IP Version 2.0 for OS/2.  This product requires the customer to have the OS/2 Version 2.1 operating system installed.

I'm still trying to find something on a package of TCP/IP 2.0 for OS/2, but I still haven't find that documentation.

Regards

The OS/2-DOS TCP/IP interface is basically WINSOCK
Title: Re: The MicroWeb DOS web browser
Post by: Olafur Gunnlaugsson on January 08, 2022, 03:53:20 pm
It is possible to run DOS packet drivers in a DOS session if you disable the DOS/2 networking, but not recommended, FTP Software (the company) also sold a TCP/IP stack for OS/2 that had a VDD that allowed DOS sessions to use DOS packets via emulation, but alas that is impossible to get hold of these days. The Essex Systems stack also had some VDD trickery, but I cannot remember it it supported the FTPS packets specification.

Is it true these older OS/2 TCP/IP and NetBIOS over TCP implementations used proprietary APIs which limited their use to only the network applications/services that were distributed with these packages?

The stacks were mostly compatible when using the same protocols, the low level or packet interfaces on OS/2 1.x varied from provider to provider however, for OS/2 2x this matterred less since NDIS was provided as standard and most stacks just layered on top of that (NDIS was available for 1.x, but not supplied as standard, except possibly with 1.3).
Title: Re: The MicroWeb DOS web browser
Post by: Martin Iturbide on March 02, 2022, 04:43:42 am
Hi

I found this file on hobbes: https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/dev/info/tcpdos.zip
It has some LIB files, but I'm trying to find the .H files for the mTCP developer to try to make it work on OS/2 DOS VDM.

It is missing is the header files in the TCP/IP for DOS software development kit.

If someone has the those file, please let me know.

Regards

Title: Re: The MicroWeb DOS web browser
Post by: Martin Iturbide on March 02, 2022, 07:14:07 pm
Hi

Gotta hint from this file: pgmgc1.zip (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/system/patches/pgmgc1.zip)

The readme says:
Code: [Select]
The latest CSDs for TCP/IP Version 2.0 for OS/2 are shown
  in the following table:

  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | KIT NAME                   | PACKAGE NAME              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | Applications Kit           | APP20CSD.PKG              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | Base Kit                   | TCP20CSD.PKG              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | Domain Name Server Kit     | DNS20CSD.PKG              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | DOS/Windows Access Kit     | DOS20CSD.PKG              |  <----
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | Extended Networking Kit    | XNT20CSD.PKG              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | Network File System Kit    | NFS20CSD.PKG              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | OSF/Motif Kit              | MOT20CSD.PKG              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | Programmer's Toolkit       | PGM20CSD.PKG              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | X Window System Client Kit | XCL20CSD.PKG              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | X Window System Server Kit | PMX20CSD.PKG              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+


I checked inside this ISO:  OS/2 Master 5/94 (https://ia600805.us.archive.org/view_archive.php?archive=/3/items/os2mast_594/os2mast_594.zip). It has "DOS20CSD.PKG (https://archive.org/download/os2mast_594/os2mast_594.zip/os2mast%20594%2FZIPPED%2FOS2%2FFIX%2FDOS20CSD.PKG)".

How can I upack it to see if has some .h files for the DOS TCP/IP I'm looking for?

Regards
Title: Re: The MicroWeb DOS web browser
Post by: Tom on March 02, 2022, 07:21:21 pm
Hi

Gotta hint from this file: pgmgc1.zip (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/system/patches/pgmgc1.zip)

The readme says:
Code: [Select]
The latest CSDs for TCP/IP Version 2.0 for OS/2 are shown
  in the following table:

  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | KIT NAME                   | PACKAGE NAME              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | Applications Kit           | APP20CSD.PKG              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | Base Kit                   | TCP20CSD.PKG              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | Domain Name Server Kit     | DNS20CSD.PKG              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | DOS/Windows Access Kit     | DOS20CSD.PKG              |  <----
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | Extended Networking Kit    | XNT20CSD.PKG              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | Network File System Kit    | NFS20CSD.PKG              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | OSF/Motif Kit              | MOT20CSD.PKG              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | Programmer's Toolkit       | PGM20CSD.PKG              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | X Window System Client Kit | XCL20CSD.PKG              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+
  | X Window System Server Kit | PMX20CSD.PKG              |
  +----------------------------+---------------------------+


I checked inside this ISO:  OS/2 Master 5/94 (https://ia600805.us.archive.org/view_archive.php?archive=/3/items/os2mast_594/os2mast_594.zip). It has "DOS20CSD.PKG (https://archive.org/download/os2mast_594/os2mast_594.zip/os2mast%20594%2FZIPPED%2FOS2%2FFIX%2FDOS20CSD.PKG)".

How can I upack it to see if has some .h files for the DOS TCP/IP I'm looking for?

Regards

DOS20CSD.PKG is a textfile, with the following contents:

Code: [Select]
**********************  IBM Internal Use Only  *************************
* :nick.DOS20CSD   :sec.IBM Internal Use Only         :disk.OS2CSD
* :title.CSD UN50383, DBOX Kit TCP/IP 2.0 for OS.2
* :version.2.0     :date.94/01/06   :CSD.PTF UN50383  :support.
* :oname.TCP/IP Development         :onode.RALVM12    :ouser.OS2TCPIP
* :aname.John Gunther               :anode.RALVM12    :auser.OS2TCPIP
* :ops.OS/2 2.0+
* :doc.DOSCSD.DOC
* :abs.Fixes for the DBOX Kit for TCP/IP 2.0.  The
* diskette image files are in PKZIP self-extracting format.  The files
* contained in this package can be distributed to IBM customers who
* are licensed owners of TCP/IP 2.0 DBOX Kit.
***********************************************************************+
*
      DBOX20C1  EXEBIN   *
*
*  Download then execute "DBOX20C1 -d" to a diskette.
*  You Must use the -d option when creating the diskette.
*  This will put the following files on the diskette:
*             DOSCSD.DOC
*             DBOXC1.ZIP
*             DBOXXT.EXE
*             TCPINST.EXE
*             TCPINST.HLP
*             TCPINST2.EXE
*             DEFAULT.RSP
*             UNZIP.DLL
*               \lanlk\      (4 files)
*
*  Insert diskette one and enter TCPINST to install the CSD.
***********************************************************************
Title: Re: The MicroWeb DOS web browser
Post by: Martin Iturbide on March 02, 2022, 08:13:10 pm
Thanks Tom

I think it was a mislead. Seems that those files (DBOX20C1.EXE and DBOXC1.ZIP) does not has the .h files of the IBM DOS TCP/IP Toolkit I'm looking for.

I need to keep looking for those.

Regards