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OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - Technical => Applications => Topic started by: Glenn on May 15, 2022, 12:17:57 pm

Title: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Glenn on May 15, 2022, 12:17:57 pm
Hi all, when trying to run the good old American Heritage Dictionary (published by DUX) on ArcaOS 5.0.7, I get a SYS3175 with PMMERGE.DLL, the app does not start. Googling for that error gives many results with people mentioning similar problems. There are also patched versions of PMMERGE.DLL but all much older than the current ArcaOS version, that may or may not have integrated this patched version. IIRC this problem happened with eCS too but not with the original Warp 4.

Was there a known solution / workaround to be able to start such programs on current versions of the OS?
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ?
Post by: Roderick Klein on May 15, 2022, 12:36:29 pm
If you have such an issue I think its best if you open a ticket at Arca Noae on mantis.arcanoae.com. This will require you to upload a testlog. Do not backlevel pmmerge.dll to an older version as that will introduce other issue's.

If you are lucky then based on the popuplog.os2 entry and with the SYM file of pmmerge.dll somebody might be able to determine what function it crashes it. That might give a hint. But this trick does not always work.

Roderick Klein
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ?
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 15, 2022, 07:06:47 pm
Hi Glenn

I don't have the American Heritage Dictionary by DUX, but the only thing I had seen is that there are two patches at hobbes (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?dir=%2F&stype=all&sort=type_name&search=heritage), but I'm not sure if those are for the same thing you are using? Those are patches for DUX.EXE.

Regards
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ?
Post by: Glenn on May 16, 2022, 12:55:39 am
Hi Glenn

I don't have the American Heritage Dictionary by DUX, but the only thing I had seen is that there are two patches at hobbes (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?dir=%2F&stype=all&sort=type_name&search=heritage), but I'm not sure if those are for the same thing you are using? Those are patches for DUX.EXE.

Regards
Unfortunately the remedy is worse than the problem: instead of just not starting the application, applying these patches causes the app to somehow start minimized (can see the program in lSwitcher) but also to hang the WPS - I have to use TOP to kill the app AND reset the WPS before I can regain control on the system...
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Pete on May 16, 2022, 02:39:12 am
Hi Glenn

Are you using a multiprocessor system? - Just wondering if using markexe.exe (from os/2 toolkit) to "mark" the executable (dux.exe ?) as mpunsafe will help...


Regards

Pete
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Glenn on May 16, 2022, 08:54:02 am
Are you using a multiprocessor system? - Just wondering if using markexe.exe (from os/2 toolkit) to "mark" the executable (dux.exe ?) as mpunsafe will help...
Hi Pete, It' s a VirtualBox system, one processor in the configuration. I' ll check that anyway, but I remember my "real" system in the early 2000s, a P4 (hence without multiprocessing), showed the same problem.
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: jailbird on May 22, 2022, 07:26:26 am
If it's a crash in PMMERGE.DLL, have you tried the OS/4 team's patched PMMERGE.DLL?

Obviously it won't be supported by Arca Noae in any way, so backup your current .DLL first!

http://os4.team/os4/pmmerge/pmmerge6111.zip
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Roderick Klein on May 22, 2022, 11:43:03 pm
If it's a crash in PMMERGE.DLL, have you tried the OS/4 team's patched PMMERGE.DLL?

Obviously it won't be supported by Arca Noae in any way, so backup your current .DLL first!

http://os4.team/os4/pmmerge/pmmerge6111.zip

Where is listed what it fixes ?

Roderick
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Lars on May 23, 2022, 06:42:05 am
Where is it listed what USB 12.12 fixes ?

Seriously, we all know that by now, 80% of OS/2 is trial and error. It`s worth giving it a try and note down the results (worked / made things worse / did not make a difference).
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 23, 2022, 04:55:43 pm
Where is it listed what USB 12.12 fixes ?
Hi Lars:

I know you posted it as a rhetorical question (to make a point, rather than get an answer), but there is a little text on the USB Readme (https://www.arcanoae.com/wp-content/uploads/wiki/ReadMe-USB.txt) about what is updated on 12.12.
Quote
Change Log
==========

v.12.12 02-Apr-2022 - David Azarewicz
  USBCOM: Fixed USB3 issues. Added support for some newer PL2303 devices.
  USBD: Added protection from some XHCI unsafe drivers.
  USBCALLS: Added protection from some misbehaved applications.
  XHCI: Added isochronous support. May not be fully tested due to
    the lack of compatible drivers and applications.

But I agree with you  that is worthy to do some  trial and error with the OS4 patched PMMERGE.

Glenn; Can it be possible to get some pictures of the CD-ROM, or send it over to "martiniturbide@gmail.com".  I want to see if I can find it around?

Regards
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: OS4User on May 23, 2022, 10:08:30 pm
Seriously, we all know that by now, 80% of OS/2 is trial and error. It`s worth giving it a try and note down the results (worked / made things worse / did not make a difference).

In general it is true :)

But PmMerge from OS/4 has several critical bug fixes and some improvements.

- Heap leak was fixed (this manifested itself as inability to run any programs after a while)
- Misserialization in some semaphore was fixed too (I have no idea how it manifested itself)

Sometimes the system hang on start - you can see desktop  background  and nothing more.
With OS/4 PmMerge   -  I do not  see such behavior.

Some people reported some other improvements - I do not remember exactly.
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Lars on May 24, 2022, 11:24:02 pm
I have a setup with the W4 kernel (to develop and debug WPS classes). That fails with PMMERGE6111. On system start, the system will trap in PMDD with PMMERGE6111 in place. Reverting back to the original PMMERGE fixes the problem
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: OS4User on May 25, 2022, 04:06:42 am
I have a setup with the W4 kernel (to develop and debug WPS classes). That fails with PMMERGE6111. On system start, the system will trap in PMDD with PMMERGE6111 in place. Reverting back to the original PMMERGE fixes the problem

PmMerge from OS/4  does not support 16bit system (I have no idea what does it mean). It could be the reason.  Can you try with UNI or SMP  kernel ?
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Lars on May 25, 2022, 07:42:52 am
The W4 kernel is the old single core kernel. But it is a 32-bit kernel, just like the SMP kernel. The W4 kernel only supports the old 8259a interrupt controller (predating local and IO APIC).
If I try the SMP kernel, it works ok. As I said, it is only a prob with the W4 kernel.
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: OS4User on May 25, 2022, 11:12:10 am
If I try the SMP kernel, it works ok. As I said, it is only a prob with the W4 kernel.

You may also try UNI kernel.

As I said, PmMerge from OS/4  does not work with "16bit system".

I have no idea what is "16bit system" from point of view PmMerge.  But code for "16bit system" is missing in it.

If it works with SMP kernel then everything as expected.
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Dariusz Piatkowski on May 25, 2022, 01:53:43 pm
...actually, I have to confirm Lars' experience with this PMMERGE DLL. In my case I tried this with a SMP kernel, TRAP-D was the result, and so that was the end of that testing attempt on my part.

I will monitor this thread in case Lars has a different outcome.
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: OS4User on May 25, 2022, 03:23:12 pm
...actually, I have to confirm Lars' experience with this PMMERGE DLL. In my case I tried this with a SMP kernel, TRAP-D was the result, and so that was the end of that testing attempt on my part.

I will monitor this thread in case Lars has a different outcome.

As far as I understand, he already has a different outcome -  on SMP kernel everything is ok for him.

...
If I try the SMP kernel, it works ok. ...

Your Trap D is very welcome. Pls show trapscreen.
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: roberto on May 25, 2022, 06:56:53 pm
Hi all, when trying to run the good old American Heritage Dictionary (published by DUX) on ArcaOS 5.0.7, I get a SYS3175 with PMMERGE.DLL, the app does not start.
I have never used that application and I don't have it to test.
But if you want to try this completely experimental application, and making your backups prior to trying it.
How to execute it:
1 Close all applications
2 Open a DOS window sesion
3 Execute QBASIC D: \ DCSI01.Bas
4 A black sale has to appear with a cursor
If Overflow appears, try 4 or five times the run, if it does not start you may not be executed.

I refer it to you because I am playing the pmmerge.dll, this is with arca 507

Try it and tell me if it does something different.

Saludos
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Pete on May 26, 2022, 06:26:20 am
Hi

I installed PMMERGE6111 on my ArcaoS 5.0.6 system and rebooted.

As the system switched into graphical mode there was some beeps but then the Desktop loaded and all seemed to work fine - until the system froze while browsing with Dooble maybe 20 minutes after boot.

I tried this 3 times with the same result ie  rebooted , had beeps at switch to graphical mode and system froze within 20 minutes.

No Trap screen, no logs - except for xwp startup logs which do not show any problem suggesting the beeps happen before xwp starts.
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Eugene Tucker on May 26, 2022, 06:13:46 pm
I used to use the full version of XWP and noticed that it caused me some issues. I switched to the Arca Noae version of the lite version try that isd yo wish.
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Roderick Klein on May 26, 2022, 11:17:18 pm
Hi all, when trying to run the good old American Heritage Dictionary (published by DUX) on ArcaOS 5.0.7, I get a SYS3175 with PMMERGE.DLL, the app does not start. Googling for that error gives many results with people mentioning similar problems. There are also patched versions of PMMERGE.DLL but all much older than the current ArcaOS version, that may or may not have integrated this patched version. IIRC this problem happened with eCS too but not with the original Warp 4.

Was there a known solution / workaround to be able to start such programs on current versions of the OS?

From my perspective this way of fixing stuff is the same as throwing mutt at the wall and see if it sticks.
I think everybody is putting Glenn on the wrong foot to make him replace pmmerge.dll. It might fix the crash the but nobody even knows why the crash occurs in the first place. So if you backlevel the last version of pmmerge.dll with an older one. The program might start to work, but then what is broken ?
I mean its all well intended but what is causing the crash in the first place ? PMMERGE.DLL is pretty important system dll and not something that should just be swapped out like spare tire from the trunk of your car.

Glenn can you put back the original version of pmmerge.dll and run the program ? Post the popuplog.os2 entry and then I might be able to tell why it crashes. Maybe a font that is installed ? I have no clue but then we MIGHT be able to trace why it crashes.

Roderick
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Roderick Klein on May 26, 2022, 11:25:03 pm
I tried to load this version on ArcaOS 5.0.7.
https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/apps/misc/AHD_Patch_2-02.zip
It opens but no crash occurs. Anyway I would need your popuplog.os2 entry. And if that does not work maybe procdump can help to figure out WHY its crashing. You could load that up in PMDF and with the PMMERGE.SYM file give a hint why its crashing.
Its not easy but it could give a hint.
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Roderick Klein on May 27, 2022, 01:07:33 pm
How big is DUX, can you ZIP up the program and send it to roderickklein@xs4all.nl I will try and debug it here and see if I can find the reason for the crash.

Roderick
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: David Graser on May 27, 2022, 04:35:48 pm
Hi all, when trying to run the good old American Heritage Dictionary (published by DUX) on ArcaOS 5.0.7, I get a SYS3175 with PMMERGE.DLL, the app does not start. Googling for that error gives many results with people mentioning similar problems. There are also patched versions of PMMERGE.DLL but all much older than the current ArcaOS version, that may or may not have integrated this patched version. IIRC this problem happened with eCS too but not with the original Warp 4.

Was there a known solution / workaround to be able to start such programs on current versions of the OS?

From my perspective this way of fixing stuff is the same as throwing mutt at the wall and see if it sticks.
I think everybody is putting Glenn on the wrong foot to make him replace pmmerge.dll. It might fix the crash the but nobody even knows why the crash occurs in the first place. So if you backlevel the last version of pmmerge.dll with an older one. The program might start to work, but then what is broken ?
I mean its all well intended but what is causing the crash in the first place ? PMMERGE.DLL is pretty important system dll and not something that should just be swapped out like spare tire from the trunk of your car.

Glenn can you put back the original version of pmmerge.dll and run the program ? Post the popuplog.os2 entry and then I might be able to tell why it crashes. Maybe a font that is installed ? I have no clue but then we MIGHT be able to trace why it crashes.

Roderick

I noticed the pmmerge.dll in ArcaOS is still at buildlvl

[D:\]bldlevel d:\os2\dll\pmmerge.dll
Build Level Display Facility Version 6.12.675 Sep 25 2001
(C) Copyright IBM Corporation 1993-2001
Signature:       @#IBM:14.106#@ OS/2 PM Merged Library
Vendor:          IBM
Revision:        14.106
File Version:    14.106
Description:     OS/2 PM Merged Library

It appears to be at the same build level since this patch came out.

https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/system/patches/PMFIX.zip

Patches for PMMERGE 14.106

This could be a wrong assumption, but if pmmerge had been patched or updated by the ArcoOS team, would not the build level number increase?  Not being a programmer, this may be a wrong assumption.

I  run OS/4 kernel on one partition and the ArcaOS kernel on another.  Neither partition is able to run the American American Heritage Dictionary.

I did download a PDF of the dictionary and Lucide views it without any problems.

David
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Doug Bissett on May 27, 2022, 05:50:24 pm
Quote
This could be a wrong assumption, but if pmmerge had been patched or updated by the ArcoOS team, would not the build level number increase?

It is a wrong assumption. Patches do not change the release information, although it could be done (and is done, in some cases, like the Kernel). The PMMERGE patch was not created by Arca Noae (but it is pssible that they modified the patch).

I will point out, again, that only Arca Noae has permission, from IBM, to distribute patched IBM sourced binaries. Nobody else has that permission (even eCS couldn't do that). Others need to distribute the patches, and let the user do the work to apply them. Patches are often done automatically, by installers, when something is installed.
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: OS4User on May 28, 2022, 07:56:36 am
Others need to distribute the patches, and let the user do the work to apply them. Patches are often done automatically, by installers, when something is installed.

Seems this idea is not new. Once, I have seen ftp with patches to convert OS/2 kernel to OS/4 level. Somehow I did not pay attention to this and did not add it to my bookmarks. I tried to find it again, but unfortunately without success.
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Andy Willis on May 28, 2022, 10:34:12 pm
Have all the (DUX/AHD) patches been applied?  I had crashes in pmmerge.dll with DUX, however, I fixed it long enough ago I don't recall what it was... my recollection is it was the patches.
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Glenn on June 01, 2022, 08:05:31 pm
Have all the (DUX/AHD) patches been applied?  I had crashes in pmmerge.dll with DUX, however, I fixed it long enough ago I don't recall what it was... my recollection is it was the patches.
I did apply all the patches I found... As mentioned previously, the remedy is worse than the disease, as applying the patches now causes the WPS to freeze when trying to start the program.
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Glenn on June 01, 2022, 11:12:15 pm

Glenn can you put back the original version of pmmerge.dll and run the program ? Post the popuplog.os2 entry and then I might be able to tell why it crashes. Maybe a font that is installed ? I have no clue but then we MIGHT be able to trace why it crashes.

Roderick

The app not starting produces the following (do not look at the dates, I put back the original unpatched files tonight, to recreate the error message):

06-01-2022  16:07:21  SYS3175  PID 0058  TID 0001  Slot 0094
C:\AHD\AHD.EXE
c0000005
1fabd544
P1=00000002  P2=005bb000  P3=XXXXXXXX  P4=XXXXXXXX
EAX=000000e4  EBX=00039280  ECX=00000022  EDX=000081d3
ESI=000392f4  EDI=005bb000
DS=0053  DSACC=d0f3  DSLIM=5fffffff
ES=0053  ESACC=d0f3  ESLIM=5fffffff
FS=150b  FSACC=00f3  FSLIM=00000030
GS=0000  GSACC=****  GSLIM=********
CS:EIP=005b:1fabd544  CSACC=d0df  CSLIM=5fffffff
SS:ESP=0053:00039274  SSACC=d0f3  SSLIM=5fffffff
EBP=0003938c  FLG=00010206

PMMERGE.DLL 0004:0004d544


After applying the patches, when it freezes the WPS, it shows:

05-15-2022  17:04:40  SYS3170  PID 0026  TID 0001  Slot 004b
C:\OS2\PMSHELL.EXE
c0010001
1ffde411
EAX=00000002  EBX=00000000  ECX=00000000  EDX=00673720
ESI=00000000  EDI=00000000 
DS=0053  DSACC=d0f3  DSLIM=5fffffff 
ES=0053  ESACC=d0f3  ESLIM=5fffffff 
FS=150b  FSACC=00f3  FSLIM=00000030
GS=0000  GSACC=****  GSLIM=********
CS:EIP=005b:1f8f454e  CSACC=d0df  CSLIM=5fffffff
SS:ESP=0053:0004f80c  SSACC=d0f3  SSLIM=5fffffff
EBP=0004f814  FLG=00010202

DOSCALL1.DLL 0003:0000e411


Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Lars on June 02, 2022, 08:37:18 am
The trap in PMMERGE happens in a routine called "MoveAndXform".
It happens when copying a string via the "movsd" instruction.
The exception code is C000005 which means "XCPT_ACCESS_VIOLATION".
P1 = 2 which means XCPT_WRITE_ACCESS which means the target buffer is obviously too small to receive the string.
What's more important: "MoveAndXform" calls routines "GetFaceName" and "GetCellTransform" which seems to indicate that this this is all about using fonts and displaying them in a window.

So I think, Roderick is correct and this is a problem with using fonts. The fix might be to set a proper "default font", maybe the font name of the font that is being used is too long or some such.
I seem to remember that there was a OS2SYS.INI setting for this. An alternative might be to drop a new font onto the program window (it it opens at all).

What I would try is to properly install the fonts that come with the program. Open the fonts palette, select "edit" button, then select "Add..." button and browse to the programs dir to select "AHDPHON.AFM" and "AHDPHONI.AFM". This will install the fonts to the \PSFONTS folder.

Unfortunately, I cannot test the prog as I don't have the encyclopedia data as such.
One thing you obviously need to do is to set up env vars DUX_AHD_DATA and DUX_ENC_DATA to point to the directory where you have the encyclopedia data.

I have installed AHD_PATH_2-0 and then copied over the contents of AHD_PATH_2-02 and I don't experience any crashes but the prog will not display anything either (due to the missing encyclopedia data).
Title: Re: Old problem.. any known solution ? (American Heritage Dictionary by DUX)
Post by: Glenn on June 03, 2022, 09:07:59 am
I did install the fonts (even the TTF fonts in the Windows 3.1 version of AHD), without any subsequent effect on the problem. I checked and my config.sys does have the environment variables.
Roderick now has ISOs of my installation disks so should be able to tell more when he has some time to look at it. Thank you so much to you all for your help!