OS2 World Community Forum

OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - Technical => Applications => Topic started by: Neil Waldhauer on July 21, 2020, 02:56:00 am

Title: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on July 21, 2020, 02:56:00 am
Does anyone run this? I know it does NOT run on a recent machine running ArcaOS, but how old does the machine have to be before Lotus 123 DOS will run?

This issue is DOS support. I know there is a project at Arca Noae for refreshed DOS support, but it isn't ready today.
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 21, 2020, 03:38:10 am
Hi Neil

Is your question related to DOS compatibility in general, or do you have an specific need for Lotus 1-2-3, like converting an old format to something readable with today's tools?

Regards
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 21, 2020, 04:59:08 am
Hi Neil

I just tried on a ArcaOS VirtualBox VM Guest to run Lotus 1-2-3 R4 for DOS. It runs on full screen mode only. Mouse supported worked fine too.
- https://winworldpc.com/product/lotus-1-2-3/4x (https://winworldpc.com/product/lotus-1-2-3/4x)

Regards
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on July 21, 2020, 04:01:34 pm
I need to supply Lotus 123 DOS R34 compatibility. I was hoping DOSBox/2 would do the trick. But bare metal has it's virtues, too.

I imaging for VirtualBox I'd need to install DOS, too.

I tried WinWorld for the Lotus R34 disks, but they are copy-protected and won't install.
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 22, 2020, 01:16:16 am
Hi Neil.

Is there a hard dependency on Lotus 1-2-3 version 3.4 for your customer?
I don't know how compatible is a spreadsheet created in 3.4 with version 4.0. I understand that some spreedsheets get so complex that updating the program is a pain, but maybe you can ask.

Lotus 1-2-3 v3 Installer give me an issue on OS2 DOS VDM.
(https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2509.0;attach=6470)

Seems like DOSBox have also issues about installing 1-2-3 v3 for DOS.

(https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2509.0;attach=6468)

https://forum.winworldpc.com/discussion/11536/problems-running-install-exe-lotus-1-2-3-release-4 (https://forum.winworldpc.com/discussion/11536/problems-running-install-exe-lotus-1-2-3-release-4)
That post recommends a different emulator called 86Box (https://emulation.miraheze.org/wiki/86Box). I don' know if something can be done, like installing Lotus 1-2-3 on that emulator and try to copy the installed files to DOSBox. But I don't know about the protection tool.

Regards
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: JTCaptKirk on July 22, 2020, 04:01:55 pm
If I may,  perhaps this needs to be installed using OS/2-DOS full-screen mode. Perhaps the program simply cannot be run in a windowed mode.
Another thing I seem to recall is that there was a DOS feature that could be used to report a different DOS version to a program that checks the version.
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 22, 2020, 04:15:51 pm
Hi, welcome to the forum
If I may,  perhaps this needs to be installed using OS/2-DOS full-screen mode. Perhaps the program simply cannot be run in a windowed mode.
Yes, it is already on DOS full screen mode and it gives that issue. It does not do anything on windowed mode, it complains that it will not run.

Another thing I seem to recall is that there was a DOS feature that could be used to report a different DOS version to a program that checks the version.
I would have to see if I find something about this arround. Any pointer is welcome.

Regards
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on July 22, 2020, 04:39:31 pm
I thought I'd post and refine my search a little bit. Yes, this is a user who is on R34, and moving to a different version is too difficult.

The ideal solution would be to find working hardware. The IBM Thinkpad T43 works on eCS and probably therefore ArcaOS. The Lenovo Thinkpad X250 fails on ArcaOS. What is the last Thinkpad that can really run a DOS program like Lotus 123? I like the idea of going backward to hardware that works, then enhance that hardware to be usable.

I did see an IBM document regarding issues around running Lotus 123 DOS under OS/2. The user is currently on a T43 and it works, so presumably he knows how to do that.

I see the same issue as Martin installing Lotus 123 under DOSBox/2.
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Tom on July 22, 2020, 04:47:49 pm
Another thing I seem to recall is that there was a DOS feature that could be used to report a different DOS version to a program that checks the version.

You are referring to setver , that was introduced in DOS version 5.0
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Dave Yeo on July 22, 2020, 04:57:15 pm
It's also possible to run different versions of DOS under OS/2. Forget the specifics but it's documented in the help IIRC, at one time I had an old 16 bit version of Minix running in a VDM, worked fine.
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 22, 2020, 05:22:41 pm
...The IBM Thinkpad T43 works on eCS and probably therefore ArcaOS. The Lenovo Thinkpad X250 fails on ArcaOS. ...

So, Lotus 1-2-3 R32 works on eCS DOS VDM (full screen) on a Thinkpad T43 and not on a Thinkpad X250 with ArcaOS?

I tried a very quick exercise on my Windows 10 machine. I found a MS-DOS 6.22 VM and run it on VirtualBox and see if we can run Lotus 1-2-3 3.4a.  (Lotus1-2-33.4a3.5-Dos.7z (https://archive.org/download/Lotus123OLD/Lotus1-2-33.4a3.5-Dos.7z)) (I haven't been able to find version 3.2). The installation procedure worked, I did not get the "You have not recorded yet your name...". In fact the installation procedure asked me to type the name and organization.

I was able to run Lotus 1-2-3 v3.4a on VirtualBox VM 6.1.0 Windows host, under a MS-DOS 6.22 guest on my Thinkpad Yoga 14.

I haven't tested VirtualBox 5 on ArcaOS in some time, but maybe some workarround can be found on that direction.

Regards

Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Doug Bissett on July 22, 2020, 07:51:08 pm
Quote
The IBM Thinkpad T43 works on eCS and probably therefore ArcaOS.

My T43 works fine with ArcaOS, but I usually don't bother installing DOS/WIN support. I am pretty sure that it will start a DOS window, or full screen, okay, but that is about as far as I can go with DOS (I just don't have any DOS programs any more). Be aware, that my T43 is not the same thing as Lewis' T43. It seems that they are quite different. Mine is a model 1871, his is a 2xxx model (as I recall).

It seems that OS/2 uses DOS 5.0, by default. You can use different versions, of DOS, by using the run from diskette feature (can be a file on the HDD). I don't remember the details.
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: JTCaptKirk on July 23, 2020, 01:37:52 pm
I did some additional poking around in the event the issue is a specific DOS version issue. It was also a memory test of sorts for me since I haven't needed to do this
since the mid 90's. The OS/2 DOS VDM can be made to report a different DOS version by simply altering the properties of the DOS session folder. I usually would create another instance of the ICON (so as not to lose my original as a baseline) and then go into the properties and then alter the DOS version reported to a specific program. There are directions int the properties under this specific option as to how to input the parameters. Its fairly simple once you walk through it. I checked and ArcaOS still retains these options.
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on July 23, 2020, 09:37:15 pm
For running in a DOS VDM under OS/2 we need 2 things.

1. The computer must have a sufficient BIOS to run Lotus 123 DOS

    Clearly the X250 running CSM in legacy mode does not meet this requirement
    So far the most recent laptop that can run it is T43 (April 2005)

2. The following DOS Settings are used:

DOS_FILES
64
DOS_VERSION
123.EXE,3,40,255
123DOS.EXE,3,00,255
LOTUS.EXE,3,40,255
DPMI_DOS_API
ENABLED
DPMI_MEMORY_LIMIT
16
EMS_FRAME_LOCATION
C0000
EMS_MEMORY_LIMIT
8192
MEM_EXCLUDE_REGIONS
D0000-DFFFF
MEM_INCLUDE_REGIONS
C0000-CFFFF
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 24, 2020, 04:04:55 am
Hi Neil

With that DOS session settings Lotus 123R34 runs on my ArcaOS VM with DOS VDM full screen, but the menu is not showing on the right.
I'm attaching both VMs screenshots.

I will like to try it out on real hardware. I need to fix the HDD of my laptop with ArcaOS and will try it out.

Regards
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Mike Kölling on July 24, 2020, 03:22:25 pm
The ideal solution would be to find working hardware. The IBM Thinkpad T43 works on eCS and probably therefore ArcaOS. The Lenovo Thinkpad X250 fails on ArcaOS.

My X250 runs DOS in full screen mode on AOS505. There has been a patch (viop-1.0.wpi) provided by Arca Noae that enables at least the full screen mode for the X250.
Greetings,
Mike
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on July 24, 2020, 03:25:40 pm
Merely running a DOS full screen is not adequate. It has to run IBM Lotus 123 DOS r 34. And X250 does not even come close.

I have no data between T43 (April 2005 release) and X250 (2015 release). Obviously, the BIOS has been in decline since UEFI came out. But what is the last laptop that will work?
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 24, 2020, 05:45:37 pm
Hi Neil

If I understand right you have a Thinkpad X250 with ArcaOS 5.0.5 running CSM in legacy mode. According to what you post DOS VDM full screen is working.

You said that it fails on the X250 DOS VDM full screen, what error are you getting when you run 123.exe on the X250 ArcaOS DOS VMD Full screen? Black screen? a message?

Regards

Update: I just tried Lotus 1-2-3 R34 for DOS on a full screen VDM, on ArcaOS 5.0.5, Thinkpad L420, with your DOS session settings. Lotus 1-2-3 R34 for DOS runs but it does not shows the right bar. This hardware is a non UEFI BIOS. I don't have something with UEFI available right now to try it out.
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on July 27, 2020, 05:34:46 am
My x250 is out of commission for now, so I got a T540p. I have customer complaints that DOS does not work on any machine newer than T43. I don't use DOS myself, so I can't easily troubleshoot.

I don't have 123.EXE, I have tried the install disks. Disk1 still gives the error listed above in the DOS Full Screen.

I think the L420 would be new enough if it only worked. But not being a DOS user, I have no idea.

Others are trying UEFI, which is good. There ought to be a way to do this, but often so often, DOS users cannot or will not use Internet.
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: JTCaptKirk on July 27, 2020, 06:11:31 pm
Hello.
To run a specific version of DOS you need to go into the Command Prompt folder and select "Run Dos From Floppy".  Then you can use a DOS 3.x floppy to boot that version of DOS into an OS/2 DOS VDM.  Be aware that the default is to go to what OS/2 considers Drive A:\  for the diskette. This can be changed in the properties folder where the startup string specifies drive A:\ as the default.  I have ArcaOS installed on my T530. I can Open the OS/2 full-screen DOS  and use ALT + HOME to turn it into a DOS window on the OS/2 Desktop.   Hope this can help.  I remember doing this back on the OS/2 red box back in the 90's.  ArcaOS still has this feature.
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: David Graser on July 27, 2020, 07:59:59 pm
I wonder if DOS can be run from a virtual disk.

Virtual floppy disk 6.0 and necessary control programs

https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/system/drivers/filesys/vfdisk60.zip

Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Dave Yeo on July 27, 2020, 08:25:40 pm
Should be able to use the virtual disk to build your image file with VMDISK. Start with "help vmdisk" There's also "Starting a specific version of DOS" in the Command Reference.
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 27, 2020, 09:42:20 pm
Hi Neil

Disk1 still gives the error listed above in the DOS Full Screen.

For what I tested with NON-UEFI, if you add to the DOS Full screen configuration this:
DOS_VERSION
123.EXE,3,40,255
123DOS.EXE,3,00,255
LOTUS.EXE,3,40,255
INSTALL.EXE,3,40,255
(notice that I added INSTALL.EXE), the installer seems to work.  Give it a try to Lotus1-2-33.4a3.5-Dos.7z (https://archive.org/download/Lotus123OLD/Lotus1-2-33.4a3.5-Dos.7z)

Question: I had tried it on a VirtualBox VM when you can mount a .IMG file very easy as a diskette. Does "Virtual Floppy Disk Driver" on OS/2 supports IMG files?

Regards
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on July 28, 2020, 03:48:48 am
I had INSTALL.EXE marked in the DOS settings. I still get the error. I have no idea if my disks are the problem. I made real disks since I do not have a Virtual system. Like you, for me it would be more useful to mound .img files than to use real floppy disks.

I got new information from the user. The T540p does work. Now the question is: why does it work?

Question: does your Thinkpad L420 use the VIOP.SYS driver? I'm pretty sure his T540p does use it.
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 28, 2020, 05:54:08 pm
Hi
I got new information from the user. The T540p does work. Now the question is: why does it work?
That's strange.
Question: does your Thinkpad L420 use the VIOP.SYS driver? I'm pretty sure his T540p does use it.
The Thinkpad L420 is non UEFI, it has a regular BIOS with ArcaOS 5.0.5.
On the config.sys it is loading VIOP.SYS driver. (1.00 - 19 Mar 2018)

Regards
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: JTCaptKirk on July 28, 2020, 09:03:31 pm
Hey ! Glad to see you have it working !  I was going to suggest using a USB diskette drive and use the ASSIGN command to assign A: or B: to the drive. But you seem to have got there anyway.
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on July 28, 2020, 09:56:43 pm
OK, I have it working on my T540p. Now on to repair the X250 and try it there.

I'm trying to remember how to save/restore DOS Settings so I don't have to type in the whole thing each time.

Thanks to Martin for the Lotus DOS files.

I'm also going to give it a try on the UEFI-boot system when I get some time.
Title: Re: Lotus 123 DOS version
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on August 05, 2020, 12:22:23 am
There is some interesting background information on running Lotus in a DOS window

http://www.os2museum.com/wp/running-1-2-3-r3-in-a-vm/ (http://www.os2museum.com/wp/running-1-2-3-r3-in-a-vm/)