OS2 World Community Forum

OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - Technical => Setup & Installation => Topic started by: Sigurd Fastenrath on January 16, 2013, 02:57:16 pm

Title: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Sigurd Fastenrath on January 16, 2013, 02:57:16 pm
I am not interested in a debate wheter it makes sence or not to include YUM/RPM in eCS, there are several other places do discuss this.

Some questions came to my mind related to this:

The readme of YUM/RPM advice to have a partition with at least 5GB space for it

If so needed, does that mean

1. there is a minimum space of 6GB required for a "full" install of eCS 2.2?

2. will the installer quit if there is less or deselect RPM/YUM applications (JAVA, ODIN, QT I guess)

3. has YUM/RPM to be installed on the boot drive or is it possible to install it on a seperate drive?

4. or do one have to have two partitions for the installation (one for OS one for YUM/RPM) allways?

5. If it is necessary to install YUM/RPM on the bootdrive - does it will go in a seperate folder or "mess up" the whole boot drive with the needed folder structure?

Thanks for bringing some light here.



 
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Andy Willis on January 16, 2013, 07:12:54 pm
I have not seen the 2.2 installer and I am not associated with Mensys or Serenity so this is in no way authoritative but just reasoning from what I do know.
1.  This would only be true if the answer to ? 3 is that RPM/YUM must be on the boot drive (as the question comes from the RPM/YUM readme).
2.  I do not know if RPM/YUM will be installed if you do not select installing anything that requires it or if it will also have its own selection etc.
3.  RPM/YUM can be installed to another partition so I would expect the eCS installer would allow that as well.  The same partition you install RPM/YUM to will also be where everything it installs goes to.
4.  There is no reason a requirement for multiple partitions would exist if someone were to want one large partition with OS and RPM/YUM and applications installed to.
5.  If RPM/YUM had to be put to the boot drive then it would mess up the whole boot drive.  RPM/YUM might be put into a separate folder with its structure under by setting the unixroot=X:\rpmyum but the readme says that is untested but I don't know if there are any known issues with it.  I haven't seen anything in the RPM/YUM timeline suggesting any fixes have been made to RPM/YUM to allow it if there are any known issue (or whether anyone has tested that there are no issues so that it will just be allowed).  As the readme has a warning about not being on the root of the drive I doubt the eCS installer will be setup to put it into its own folder but I can't say that hasn't been addressed either.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: ivan on January 18, 2013, 12:52:15 am
Andy, thank you for trying to answer the questions but it would be nice to have definitive answers to those questions from the developers.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Sigurd Fastenrath on January 18, 2013, 08:08:27 am
Andy, thank you for trying to answer the questions but it would be nice to have definitive answers to those questions from the developers.

Sorry for this "double posting" at ecomstation yahoogroup as well, I wanted to start there but my first text there seemed not to reach the group, but then it appeared about half an hour after I wrote it.
So there is some more information here:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/eComStation/message/87747 (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/eComStation/message/87747)

Thanks for all the answers but it is still not clear to me.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: melf on January 18, 2013, 08:49:05 am
Mensys (Roderick) gave some  answers on news.ecomstation.com (support.misc) for a couple of days ago. However I can't find them anymore. That was to some degree informative but I still also find it unclear.

The message to my own questions  was that 1) yum/rpm could be installed on an optional drive, 2) that there was, so far, no easy way to trace where a package of files had been installed; it was said that a GUI possibly could contribute with that and that a GUI was planned.

My own plan is to give yum/rpm a good try, I think on a separate computer, to see how it works and feels in the longer term.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Andi B. on January 18, 2013, 12:46:08 pm
Quote
...no easy way to trace where a package of files had been installed...
I guess most of the executables ends in %unixroot%/usr/bin or %unixroot%/usr/sbin as with other *nix systems. Configuration is often placed in %unixroot%/etc but this depends on the application too of course.

Although this means you loose some kind of control over the place where some programs are installed, it's not that bad as it sounds at first. Guess yum/rpm installation will only be used for ported utilities and applications. Hardly anyone will ever pack native OS/2 apps into rpm. So you do not have the usual level of control only for packages you did not have in the past anyway. You do not loose something but you get new ported stuff. And for this kind of apps you have to 'learn' some of the *nix paradigms anyway. Like finding the config which is on *nix usually not in an ini file (os2.ini or some ini in the programs directory or in mptn/etc or....?) but in %unixroot%/etc.

If you want to use parts of both worlds (OS/2 and *nix) then you have to know how to handle both of them. The OS/2 knowledge you gained during the last decades is not enough anymore. Time to learn something new....
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: melf on January 18, 2013, 01:21:58 pm
Hi Andi, if it worked that way I guess it'll be quite okey. But both Java and Odin will be packed in rpm too and I think the plan is to also include e.g. Firefox in such packages. I would be surprised if not OpenOffice also will be packed as rpm, at least in some near future. As said I'm going to try it out for a longer time and see how the whole thing will work out and how high the learning curve is if you want to remain in sufficient control  :) .
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: ivan on January 18, 2013, 04:20:24 pm
Andi B, I have found the biggest problem with *nix systems is that they follow Hal from the film and always come out with the equivalent of 'I'm sorry Dave but I can't let you do that' when I try to alter some text file that they use as an ini file.

The other thing I think we need is a program like WPIVIEW only for the rpm/yum installer.  That way we could find out what is going on.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Silvan Scherrer on January 18, 2013, 04:55:19 pm
please also see http://svn.netlabs.org/rpm/wiki/RpmHowToEndUsers it explains some needed yum/rpm commands. With those it's easy to find out which app installed which files. And also which packages are installed at all.
And yes we are aware of the need of a gui. It will come once.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on January 18, 2013, 07:53:37 pm
Hardly anyone will ever pack native OS/2 apps into rpm.

That would be possible: YUM is flexible enough. I don't think that
will happen soon or ever, because it's a lot of work to repackage
every single eCS and OS/2 system component.

I wish Mensys had used such an installer from the beginning. Maybe
we were already at the status that IBM's "migration" would be
superfluous and every e.g. ACPI, Panorama or USB update would easy
to do and to revert for everyone then.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Gregg Young on January 22, 2013, 12:56:24 am
I found the post that Melf  mentioned. It is below. In the same massage chain Alex Taylor stated you would be able to deselect YUM/RPM during an advanced install which would also mean Odin, QT and JAVA would not be installed. Currently, you could install each of them later using warpin if you wished.

Gregg

As to the installer discussion, next sextion.

Over the years I have realy done a lot research. For starters I do think the complete discussion about YUM/RPM is so blown up out of propertion until you look at the facts. YUM/RPM is just another installer.

And yes to answer Melf his questions (see below). The runtime for YUM/RPM we already have a downscaled version that is 70 MB. Still a lot. But then again the new internal eCS 2.2 ISO comes with CUPS that eats about 100MB of disc space Its going to be used for QT, Jave 6 and ODIN.

Let me first address the first point. If you look at the standard IBM
installer and the eCS installer it is already complex web of installers.
Take a look at the Local System-> Install/remove folder.

For years I have been trying to move away from RSPINST.EXE from IBM.
I looked at trying to see how we could repackage the stuff that is in \OS2IMAGE\DISK_XX. Alex recently took a small look at it.
And the versions of RSPINST and what does is not very well documented.
I made several brave attempts to try and document the complete thing that RSPINST does.

In eCS 1.2R and higher there is a new version of minstall. That was the result of 3 to 4 months hard work from Martin Kiewitz and testing from my side. Thats just another installer with another file format.

To make a list:

RSPSINST (install.exe, selective install not being rescriptable).
PEER installer (installs IBM file and printer sharing)
MPTS (runs in CID mode has down old ZIP architecture in place)
CLIFI (used by base install such as Java and TCP/IP apps)
IBM application installer (like netscape 4.61)
Minstall (own file format for response files)
We added Warpin to eCS.

Now we also looked at creating a single uninstall program for these insallers so one tool you could run that would query the different database's. But that proved to be more difficult then we thought.

The web of IBM installers came about because IBM had different departments working on these components for OS/2 (I was told).
Its a pitty the powerPC installer never made to the x86 version of OS/2/. I was told that was a single installer for the complete OS.

Summary. we never communicated all of this stuff. But a lot of R&D
takes place to try and remove some of the old installers and move to
a more unified system. As for RPM/YUM to answer Melf his questions:


Question 1 from Melf:
"> Will yum/rpm force every program to install to a standard location or does that just concern *nix ports?"

It is possible and we want to offer the choice (just like now) to install programs at least to different drive letter. We also have the klib path rewriter. So it should make it possible.

Question 2 from Melf:
"Will yum/rpm provide an easy way to trace where files to a cetain installation are installed?"

That would rather be a feature of a GUI.

Question 3 from Melf:
"Will yum/rpm tolerate that you make manual adjustments, e.g exchanging certain files of certain reasons? "

What do you mean with this last question.

So RPM/YUM will not replace in eCS 2.2 the current installers. That would be to much work for the release of eCS 2.2. tIts going to be used for new components.

Roderick Klein
Mensys B.V.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Alex Taylor on January 28, 2013, 08:31:43 pm
RPM will be in eCS 2.2 beta.  The basic install includes the RPM framework, EMX, GCC4CORE, kLIBC, COREUTILS and Python.  (If you choose not to install RPM, then GCC4CORE, EMX and COREUTILS will be installed from their older standalone packages.)

The following eCS components will be installed using RPM/YUM
It's somewhat possible that Flash and/or Java might be repackaged for RPM but I don't expect that to happen before the public beta.  (Note that while Flash and Java are not themselves installed via RPM at the moment, they both require Odin, which is - therefore you do have to install RPM in order to install either Flash or Java during eCS install.)

BTW, ivan: Since eCS 2.1, the include Archive Viewer utility can view and extract RPM files.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: ivan on January 29, 2013, 01:06:05 am
Thanks for that bit of information Alex.  When you say view them do you mean just getting a list or actually extracting them - in other words do we now have a fully functional 7z?

I have to admit that I find it rather strange that Odin would be installed using RPM/YUM or are they trying to replace warpin?
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Sigurd Fastenrath on January 30, 2013, 11:09:30 am
Thanks for all the answers, but I still have no idea about my questions:

1. there is a minimum space of 6GB required for a "full" install of eCS 2.2? +
3. has YUM/RPM to be installed on the boot drive or is it possible to install it on a seperate drive?
(as these depend on each other)

2. will the installer quit if there is less or deselect RPM/YUM applications (JAVA, ODIN, QT I guess)
4. or do one have to have two partitions for the installation (one for OS one for YUM/RPM) allways?
5. If it is necessary to install YUM/RPM on the bootdrive - does it will go in a seperate folder or "mess up" the whole boot drive with the needed folder structure?

Sorry, but I am not able to find the answers to that - "simple" - questions.

As far as I understand the whole YUM/RPM is needed to install ODIN and QT - as JAVA and Flash are not ready....

The most important questions of these are to me:

Does YUM/RPM hast to be installed on the Bootdrive and will it go in a seperat folder?

Might it be possible to answer this easy question with an easy YES or NO?  - > Thanks in Advance!
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Andi B. on January 30, 2013, 12:04:15 pm
Although answered numerous times here again what I can say from the top of my head -

3) no, yes
4) no
5) 3 dirs are created at root. AFAIR /usr /etc /var

Quote
Might it be possible to answer this easy question with an easy YES or NO?  - > Thanks in Advance!
No. As you see above I needed a little more for 5)  ;)

I could give here links to the netlabs rpm sites and readmes, but this is would be more than YES or NO too....  :)
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Sigurd Fastenrath on January 30, 2013, 12:37:21 pm
Although answered numerous times here again what I can say from the top of my head -

3) no, yes
4) no
5) 3 dirs are created at root. AFAIR /usr /etc /var

Quote
Might it be possible to answer this easy question with an easy YES or NO?  - > Thanks in Advance!
No. As you see above I needed a little more for 5)  ;)

I could give here links to the netlabs rpm sites and readmes, but this is would be more than YES or NO too....  :)

Thanks you very much, Andi! I know that I am a bit annoying sometimes  ;)

For 3 your answer is: 3) no, yes

-> that leads me to my initial conclusions:

During install I have two possibilities: install YUM/RPM on bootdrive or on another drive
-> If I want to install it on another Drive this drive has to be already created and formatted before the "real" installation starts, otherwise I will not be able to install ODIN and so on...
-> If the Drive is not present or if I am "Just" a simple user (like me  ::)  ) and I have no deep information about it while installing I will choose the installation drive. In this case I have to have in mind to have more than 2GB at hand, otherwise - as all the executables of future YUM/RPM programs will go into the bootdrive as well - I will soon run out of space.

It is a pitty that I can not use my mother tongue to explain what I want to stress, but this time I will just write a few sentences in German and am sorry for this  8)

-> Ohne entsprechende Hinweise vor oder während der Installation wird Otto Normalverbraucher nicht realisieren können, welch wichtige Entscheidung er zu treffen hat, WO genau YUM/RPM installiert werden soll. Folgt er den Hinweisen von Mensys wonach für die Installation insgesamt 2GB Platz genug wären und ist er sich nicht im klaren, dass bei Installation von YUM/RPM auf dem Bootlaufwerk sein Plattenplatz evtl. zügig zur Neige geht (weil große Teile aller Folgeprogramme ebenfalls dort abgelegt werden), wird er oder sie nicht lange Freude an seiner Installation haben.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Doug Bissett on January 30, 2013, 06:20:39 pm
Quote
If I want to install it on another Drive this drive has to be already created and formatted before the "real" installation starts, otherwise I will not be able to install ODIN and so on...

True, but that is very easy to do. In most cases, on a re-install, the alternate drive will already be set up, and formatted. If it is s new install, and the drive isn't already set up, you can do that when you set up the drive during install. Create all of the volumes, then the install drive is formatted. At that time, there is the option to format the rest of your drives (JFS, HPFS, etc. Not FAT32 or NTFS). Once they are formatted, you are free to use them.

Personally, I take the opportunity to select the alternate drive to contain the %HOME% and %PROGRAMS% directories too. Hopefully, the updated installer will also allow a user to specify the %UNIXROOT% directory at the same time, even if a user chooses not to use RPM/YUM. If that is done, and %UNIXROOT% is placed on an alternate drive, a user should be able to install RPM/YUM some time in the future, without messing up too many things. One of the reasons that I do that, is that I can share those directories between multiple boot drives. I am not sure what implications that would have with RPM/YUM (could be a horror show, if they don't do things properly), but everything else that I have tried works fine.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: guzzi on January 30, 2013, 06:59:04 pm
I already have rpm/yum on an alternate drive. When the new eCS comes out and I would install it on a second boot partition with rpm/yum in the same place as it is now I expect there might be problems because files would get overwritten and the database will get messed up. So I intend -not- to install rpm/yum but simply copy and paste the appropriate lines from the old config.sys to the new one.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: ivan on January 30, 2013, 10:18:24 pm
I already have rpm/yum on an alternate drive. When the new eCS comes out and I would install it on a second boot partition with rpm/yum in the same place as it is now I expect there might be problems because files would get overwritten and the database will get messed up. So I intend -not- to install rpm/yum but simply copy and paste the appropriate lines from the old config.sys to the new one.
And that appears to be the big problem - multiple OS/2 eCS boot partitions on the same machine using common applications installed on a partition that can be used by all boot versions.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Doug Bissett on January 31, 2013, 07:01:44 am
I already have rpm/yum on an alternate drive. When the new eCS comes out and I would install it on a second boot partition with rpm/yum in the same place as it is now I expect there might be problems because files would get overwritten and the database will get messed up. So I intend -not- to install rpm/yum but simply copy and paste the appropriate lines from the old config.sys to the new one.
And that appears to be the big problem - multiple OS/2 eCS boot partitions on the same machine using common applications installed on a partition that can be used by all boot versions.

It has been NO PROBLEM, for me, but I haven't tried it with RPM/YUM. I share almost everything, on a common drive, between boot partitions. Some of them are (in no particular order):
SAMBA
GENMAC
OpenOffice 3.2
ODIN
JAVA
QT4
Firefox
PMMail
Thunderbird
BackAgain/2000
CDDVDCreator
DVDDAO
DOS BOX
Electronic Teller
Embelish
FotoGet
House/2
Lotus Smartsuite
PMView Pro
Seamonkey
Photo>Graphics Pro
VirtualBox
FocusWriter
GenealogyJ (JAVA)
Scribus
AVxCAT
PM123
SMplayer/Mplayer
Timidity
VLC
APC UPS monitor
BootAble
ClamAV
DFSEE
eCSMT
FM/2
RSync
and  few more that I don't use much.

Basically, most programs can be shared between boot systems, with no trouble. Doing it that way makes it a LOT easier when the time comes to install a new version of eCS. Generally, you do need to re-install the program, over top of the old, using the new boot system. Sometimes, simply creating icons is enough. WarpIN makes it very easy to just run through your collection of installers, to get it done. The best programs store all of there configuration stuff in their own directory, so it can be used by any boot system. Not too far behind, are those that store config stuff in the %HOME% directory (which also needs to be on the common drive), although I find that that gets badly cluttered. The worst programs, are those that insist on storing configuration stuff on the boot drive, especially when they put it in the system INI files. Even that is not a real problem, it just means that you need to be more careful when installing the programs.

I suspect that RPM/YUM will keep all of the configuration stuff in it's own directory structure, but I am not sure how easy it will be to synchronize it between two boot systems.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: ivan on January 31, 2013, 01:40:36 pm
Likewise Doug, all my applications are on one partition and where possible the data produced is on yet another.  The boot partition has OS/2 and that is it.

So far with RPM/YUM there has been no definitive answer to how it is designed to work.  So far the answer is 'maybe' it will go on a non boot partition or 'maybe' it has to be on the boot partition.

Must it be on the boot partition or can it be on another and if on another will it allow multiple boot partitions?  That is the question that must be answered!

At the moment there appears to be a move towards emulating windows with everything being placed in the boot partition.  As far as I can see this is a retrograde step and should be resisted. 

If it ends up that it will put everything on the boot partition then we need a simple RPM unpacker that will let us get at what is in the package and put it where we want it.  In other words we will be back to the equivalent of using zip files.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Doug Bissett on January 31, 2013, 09:45:59 pm
Quote
So far with RPM/YUM there has been no definitive answer to how it is designed to work.  So far the answer is 'maybe' it will go on a non boot partition or 'maybe' it has to be on the boot partition.

There is no doubt that RPM/YUM can be on a volume, other than the boot volume. IMO, it should NOT be on a boot volume, but it CAN be. Whether the eCS installer will actually allow it to be put on a volume, other than the boot volume, is yet to be seen (if it doesn't allow it, it won't get installed until AFTER the main install, if I install it at all - which is unlikely, except on my test machine).

The only unknown is whether two boot systems can share the information, successfully. If it is done properly, there should be no problem. If it isn't done properly, it could be somewhat interesting, to say the least.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on February 01, 2013, 12:07:07 am

Quote
So far with RPM/YUM there has been no definitive answer to how it is designed to work.  So far the answer is 'maybe' it will go on a non boot partition or 'maybe' it has to be on the boot partition.

There is no doubt that RPM/YUM can be on a volume, other than the boot volume. IMO, it should NOT be on a boot volume, but it CAN be. Whether the eCS installer will actually allow it to be put on a volume, other than the boot volume, is yet to be seen (if it doesn't allow it, it won't get installed until AFTER the main install, if I install it at all - which is unlikely, except on my test machine).

The only unknown is whether two boot systems can share the information, successfully. If it is done properly, there should be no problem. If it isn't done properly, it could be somewhat interesting, to say the least.

That reads like it is already implemented in the installer. Do you have access to the sources? Or are you even the developer responsible for the installer?

Doug, please do the things that you know to do. I would thank you if you turn your mind and let Alex and Joachim speak in that case. An option would be to use citations, marked as such.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Doug Bissett on February 01, 2013, 03:23:02 am
Quote
That reads like it is already implemented in the installer. Do you have access to the sources? Or are you even the developer responsible for the installer?

I have no idea what will be in the eCS installer. No, I don't have access to the sources, and I am not responsible for it.

I DO have RPM/YUM installed on a drive that is not the boot drive, as installed by the existing installer (with no magic), and I see no reason for that to change (but stranger things have happened).

At the moment, I do not have a second boot system on that machine, so I cannot comment on what will happen if I try to share the RPM/YUM installation between two boot systems.

Quote
Doug, please do the things that you know to do. I would thank you if you turn your mind and let Alex and Joachim speak in that case. An option would be to use citations, marked as such.

I think you should actually READ what I post.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Dave Yeo on February 01, 2013, 05:28:02 am

At the moment, I do not have a second boot system on that machine, so I cannot comment on what will happen if I try to share the RPM/YUM installation between two boot systems.


I'm sharing a RPM/YUM install between 2 boot partitions, works fine. In my case I never did let it write to config.sys due to conflicts with my existing %UNIXROOT% volume which has EMX stuff on it. Just use a script to enable it.
All the RPM/YUM stuff is self-contained on the volume that %UNIXROOT% points to except what usually goes in config.sys, PATH, LIBPATH, various Python and probably Perl settings so they can find themselves etc.
I can't imagine the installer insisting on using the boot volume for RPM/YUM and really it needs to be installed to the root of whatever volume it is installed to. Ideally %HOME% should probably be on the same volume as some programs are likely to not understand drive letters.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Alex Taylor on February 01, 2013, 07:38:55 pm
Thanks for all the answers, but I still have no idea about my questions:

1. there is a minimum space of 6GB required for a "full" install of eCS 2.2? +
3. has YUM/RPM to be installed on the boot drive or is it possible to install it on a seperate drive?
(as these depend on each other)

I thought I answered these about two weeks ago on the eCS mailing list.  However, I'll answer again.

1. No.  A default install I think takes a bit less than 1GB, but you will obviously want extra space on whatever drive you keep applications, data, and/or your temporary directory.  That has always been the case, irrespective of RPM/YUM.

3. No, you can install it on any drive as long as it supports long filenames.

Quote
2. will the installer quit if there is less or deselect RPM/YUM applications (JAVA, ODIN, QT I guess)
4. or do one have to have two partitions for the installation (one for OS one for YUM/RPM) allways?
5. If it is necessary to install YUM/RPM on the bootdrive - does it will go in a seperate folder or "mess up" the whole boot drive with the needed folder structure?

2.  No, the installer will not quit.  If you deselect RPM/YUM in Advanced install, then Odin, Flash, Java and Qt4 will also be automatically deselected.

4. No. 

5. It is not necessary, so: no.  Whatever drive you install on, by default three directories will be used: /var, /etc and /usr.  I acknowledge this is somewhat awkward as you already have an %ETC% directory and a /var directory which may end up separate.  However, there is no way for us to change this, given how RPM is designed.  We recommend thinking of it like this: RPM installs a self-contained "sandbox" for Unix-ported applications.  Those applications will use the RPM-managed directories; other applications will use the "regular" directories.

That said: The installer (in Advanced mode) simply asks where you want the RPM root path to be.  It defaults to the root directory of a drive.   However, it is theoretically possible to enter a subdirectory (e.g. "x:\rpm") instead, in which case all the RPM directories will be created under that.  We do not encourage users to do this, as there is no guarantee that all RPM-managed applications will support this kind of setup.  (The ones included with eCS do seem to work this way, though.)


Quote
Sorry, but I am not able to find the answers to that - "simple" - questions.

As far as I understand the whole YUM/RPM is needed to install ODIN and QT - as JAVA and Flash are not ready....

True, but since Java and Flash depend on Odin, they can't be installed via the eCS installer without RPM as well.  (You can perfectly well install them yourself later, of course, if you know how.)

Quote
The most important questions of these are to me:

Does YUM/RPM hast to be installed on the Bootdrive and will it go in a seperat folder?

Might it be possible to answer this easy question with an easy YES or NO?  - > Thanks in Advance!

No; and, it depends.  See above.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Alex Taylor on February 01, 2013, 07:48:40 pm
Thanks for that bit of information Alex.  When you say view them do you mean just getting a list or actually extracting them - in other words do we now have a fully functional 7z?

Yes, you can extract them.  It uses either 7z or rpm2cpio, depending on which one it can find in the PATH, plus cpio.


Likewise Doug, all my applications are on one partition and where possible the data produced is on yet another.  The boot partition has OS/2 and that is it.

This is good policy, IMO.

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Must it be on the boot partition or can it be on another and if on another will it allow multiple boot partitions?  That is the question that must be answered!

It has been answered, repeatedly.  I don't see what the confusion is.  It can go on any partition and is entirely self-contained.

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At the moment there appears to be a move towards emulating windows with everything being placed in the boot partition.  As far as I can see this is a retrograde step and should be resisted. 

Why do you seem to have this impression?  Who has ever said that it has to be on the boot drive?  It does not.
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: ivan on February 01, 2013, 11:07:56 pm
Thanks again Alex.


Quote
Must it be on the boot partition or can it be on another and if on another will it allow multiple boot partitions?  That is the question that must be answered!

It has been answered, repeatedly.  I don't see what the confusion is.  It can go on any partition and is entirely self-contained.

Quote
At the moment there appears to be a move towards emulating windows with everything being placed in the boot partition.  As far as I can see this is a retrograde step and should be resisted. 

Why do you seem to have this impression?  Who has ever said that it has to be on the boot drive?  It does not.

To answer the first part.  I have seen conflicting statements about where it could go and nothing definitive about it working with different boot partitions. 

Since you have a hand in the installer for eCS then I can now take it that it will work from a common partition for more than one boot drive on the same machine.

The second part is an impression I have received, maybe erroneously, from comments on various news groups and to a lesser extent here, but again I rely on your knowledge of the inner workings to show that is a wrong impression.  I do have one question though, why does an eCS install default to using %bootdrive%/programs and %bootdrive%/home?
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Alex Taylor on February 02, 2013, 03:07:48 am
I do have one question though, why does an eCS install default to using %bootdrive%/programs and %bootdrive%/home?

I'm not sure what else it could default to. 
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: ivan on February 02, 2013, 11:34:54 am
Maybe they, like the RPM/YUM install, could be emphasised in some way rather than being buried in with a lot of other options that most people don't look at.  An install page something like the networking page maybe?
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Alex Taylor on February 02, 2013, 09:27:34 pm
How are they buried?  They've already got their own dedicated page where you choose HOME and PROGRAMS.

(eCS 2.2 will add the RPM base to that page as well.)
Title: Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
Post by: Sigurd Fastenrath on February 02, 2013, 10:47:12 pm

I thought I answered these about two weeks ago on the eCS mailing list.  However, I'll answer again.


Sorry, but this informations unfortunately never reached me. Thanks though.

And once again - my Intention is not to blame someone or something, it is just that I want to point the developers to - in my opinion - some theoretical but important problems users might have or face while trying to install ecs 2.2.
Theoretical because unfortunately it is not possible to test a beta as it is reschedulded and therefore delayed from month to month.....