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Messages - Roderick Klein

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1
Applications / Re: hard hangs
« on: June 18, 2021, 03:15:38 pm »
I noticed and have had these problems for some time.  It must be the programs.

PMview with multiple instances and working with lots of graphics sometimes hangs the system requiring a hard shutdown.

This also occurs with FM/2.  Sometimes when I open an archive file and start to drag a file to add to the archive, the system locks up requiring another hard boot.

What software are you running ?

Do you load big programs such as Open Office, Firefox and Thunderbird at the same time ?

When the system locks up can you press CTRL ALT DEL ?
Or CTRL ALT F10 twice or is it completely dead ?


Best regards,

Roderick Klein
For sure these 3 programs are running: multiple instances of PMView, Iconview, FM2, and sometime Firefox. I usually have a USB drive plugged in.  At times I can go to Top and shut down what i think are the problem programs and go back to the WPS.  The mouse will not move requiring a hard boot.  At other times, it I am unable to go to TOP and must do a hard boot next.  With the USB drive in, I am fairly sure, a hard boot is required.  The USB drive may be a large part of it.  I cannot tell you how may graphics files I have lost because of this.

It seems like the more graphics are in the root directory on the FAT32 drive, the greater the risk for a hang.

What version of the FAT 32 driver are you running ? The one that came with ArcaOS ? If so what version of ArcaOS are you running ?
There have been numerous fixes to the fat 32 driver.


Roderick

2
Comments, Suggestions & Questions / Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
« on: June 16, 2021, 11:45:42 pm »
1) Only keep the latest one.
2) Keep the main releases of Uniaud, not the development or preview releases.

keep all development or preview releases in archive sub dir

rumors said  that early builds of uniaud  supported multi channel sound  on some hardware. current uniaud has lost this ability  -  so old builds  may help to find out when this ability went away.

Best I can tell the only driver (on which UNIAUD is based) is the SB live driver that supported multi channel support.
The minstall setup for UNIAUD has always been for single channel best I tell.
You need to setup MMOS2 and tell it how many streams an audio device supports. Can anybody confirm this ? Or have I got this wrong.

The point with MMOS2 is that all hardware that is supported in the old versions is supported in the the latest version of UNIAUD.
And all UNIAUD versions will require Warp 4 + Fixpak 13 and higher. Has a 32 bit driver.

Roderick

3
Applications / Re: hard hangs
« on: June 16, 2021, 10:59:39 pm »
I noticed and have had these problems for some time.  It must be the programs.

PMview with multiple instances and working with lots of graphics sometimes hangs the system requiring a hard shutdown.

This also occurs with FM/2.  Sometimes when I open an archive file and start to drag a file to add to the archive, the system locks up requiring another hard boot.

What software are you running ?

Do you load big programs such as Open Office, Firefox and Thunderbird at the same time ?

When the system locks up can you press CTRL ALT DEL ?
Or CTRL ALT F10 twice or is it completely dead ?


Best regards,

Roderick Klein

4
Comments, Suggestions & Questions / Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
« on: June 13, 2021, 01:11:38 am »
In this case why keep such old antique versions of Uniaud ? For other drivers I can imagen you keep them.
It a long time ago but I think it was in 2014 or 2015 David Azarewicz made some pretty import fixes.
One of them was in the audio buffer management of UNIAUD16.SYS. But its to long ago, going by what I remember.
All Uniaud builds support the all of the older hardware as well.  So why distribute old stuff that can pontially crash a users computer ?

5
The problem is the business case. All I can do is guess at Arca Noae's business, and they're the ones with a license to resell OS/2. According to discussions here, there's only about 500 hobbyists, with not all having the money to spend but even 500 paying customers doesn't seem enough to support Arca Noae which leads to the assumption that they also have a fair number of enterprise customers. Any enterprise customers who can virtualize their environment likely already have, likely back in the eCS days without much need to upgrade. This leaves people/businesses that need real hardware which seems to be what Arca Noae is concentrating on.
There's lots of stuff that just can't be done in a virtual environment, a while back there was someone needed lots of com ports, which didn't work under a virtual machine for example.

I never said that there are 500 users (if you are basing that number on my statement). I think we have a few thousand private users left in total.
I worked at Mensys until 2013 on eCS. I get the impression a lot of the private users sticked around. True users left but I get the impression more users are left based on time at Mensys. I can not imagen we are left with 500 private users.

Roderick

Again I am looking for numbers to estimate how big our community roughly but it will always be a gamble to a large extend. It was not much different when I worked at Mensys that people want to buy OS/2/eCS after many years again.

The 500 users was based on the IP numbers from Netlabs. But how accurate that is ? But I never stated we have 500 private users left. Read the other postings for the rest of the details.

Roderick

6
The problem is the business case. All I can do is guess at Arca Noae's business, and they're the ones with a license to resell OS/2. According to discussions here, there's only about 500 hobbyists, with not all having the money to spend but even 500 paying customers doesn't seem enough to support Arca Noae which leads to the assumption that they also have a fair number of enterprise customers. Any enterprise customers who can virtualize their environment likely already have, likely back in the eCS days without much need to upgrade. This leaves people/businesses that need real hardware which seems to be what Arca Noae is concentrating on.
There's lots of stuff that just can't be done in a virtual environment, a while back there was someone needed lots of com ports, which didn't work under a virtual machine for example.

I never said that there are 500 users (if you are basing that number on my statement). I think we have a few thousand private users left in total.
I worked at Mensys until 2013 on eCS. I get the impression a lot of the private users sticked around. True users left but I get the impression more users are left based on time at Mensys. I can not imagen we are left with 500 private users.

Roderick

Roderick

7
Web applications / Re: QT5 simplebrowser
« on: June 08, 2021, 11:59:25 pm »
If I understand it correctly Roderick estimated 500-600 unique users based on unique IP addresses in the logs. I thinks this is a false assumption. In my area ISPs use Carrier Grade NAT for the majority of their users. I think this is a common technique in other countries too. At least here in Europe. What this means is, a single user gets a new IP address from the ISPs pool whenever his xDSL or LTE modem connects. Usually at least once a day as most ISPs forces an automatic reconnects at least once a day. Even when you leave your modem running all the time.

So at least I (and I guess the waste majority of users) left a different IP address in the logs every day when I made a yum update. Please let me know if Roderick uses more advanced techniques than counting IP addresses. If not, his values are probably much to high and the active community is much lower than he expects.

If you count the first three octets of the IP address it where 500 unqiue IP addreses. Count all 4 octets it where just over 600 unique IP addresses.
Remeber that this is an indication in my opinion but I described that already.

Roderick

8
I know this might not be realistic (as i mentioned before, i'm not a programmer), but i just would like to know if this could be a way to get a 64-bit system:

Can there be some sort of merger between a host and a virtual machine? Maybe similar like WINOS/2 that got part of OS/2?

Maybe we could get a basic new 64-OS with only everything that is necessary to load our 32-bit-OS/2 in some sort of virtual machine in some way that you don't even realize, that we have a virtual machine.
Then we'd also need some sort of connection between that host and the guest - also in some way, that the user wouln't even realize we have actually 2 systems.
Would that be feasible or are there any technical restrictions?
Since i know, we have virtual machines worlking on 64-bit platforms, this might work. I'm just not sure, if an interaction between both worlds can be achieved...

This has been spoken about quite a bit, even in the most recent Warpstock it was stated to be wishful thinking.

The discussion has been running for 20 years... Its nothing new the idea. The question how realistic is it and achieve critical mass...

Roderick

9
Web applications / Re: QT5 simplebrowser
« on: June 07, 2021, 10:18:38 pm »
Where did LewisRosenthal write that then ?
Roderick

Hi Roderick, I'm refering to this thread:
https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,2452.0.html

Specifically this part:
Ivan: If your subscription is in force, then you have no rush. The point was for the folks who let their subscriptions lapse (think: early adopters, who purchased ArcaOS 5.0 in May of 2017 with six months included subscription and then never renewed). It's simply not fair to everyone who does renew on time to have people go three years and then re-up for another year at a fraction of the cost of a new license. Everyone else is funding development in the meantime. (And frankly, the vast majority of ArcaOS licensees do renew early or on time, probably because we continue to crank out new stuff and we work tirelessly to address trouble tickets. </shameless plug>)

The part about painting those opting to buy a subscription license later is somehow being "unfair" to others doesn't sit well with me.
I don't think someone who uses their ECS license or their early ArcaOS license owes other people anything.
They paid for the product in the first place. A person that is using something they purchased legally are not a leech.
But maybe i'm being too sensitive about that.

The way I read your response I am not 100% certain you understand what Lewis wrote.

What Lewis his opinion is that some people purchased a license of ArcaOS 5.0 and when half a year later the 6 month the subscription expired and did not renew the subscription. Doing that is a user his right. The included OS/2 license remains always valid.

What Lewis mentioned is that he thinks its not far if people to renew the ArcaOS subscription after not having paid for it for 3 years. The customer then buys a new subscription and would access to version 5.0.6.  It seems BTW recently Arca Noae modified the policy and when you let the subscription expire for a long time you pay an extra fee for getting access again.

Roderick

10
Web applications / Re: QT5 simplebrowser
« on: June 07, 2021, 12:57:02 am »
I was not able to watch Warpstock Europe when you presented this slides, and have to apologize for being to harsh with my words.

But I still think it is better to name it a community and not "only or main" OS2VOICE project or goal.

And please keep in mind, several suffered heavy economic losses because of the Corona Pandemie.

For me, i.e., it was and is more important to Support the home for homeless Kids in Chenai/India, that some people here Support for 15 Years now, than having a new Browser for OS/2. While the home has to be closed for now because of goverment restrictioncs we donate for Rice, Walter and food, to keep people alive.

I do not mention this for fishing for compliments, jutst to bring the actual situation of donating reasons in a bigger context.

I am perfectly aware of the situation people in poor countries are in duo to Corona. Especially if you have little to no income. We can complain here in Western Europe but we get vaccines within no time and the rich countries had plenty of money to backup companies. People in poor countries where the health care system is less robust and the government financial support is not around have a very hard time.

I will think about naming it differently this collaborative effort. I just thought OS/2 VOICE is well known in the OS/2 community also for people not checking OS/2 news that often.

I was hoping more people would contribute 10 Dollars is welcome if just more people would do that. And yes the German community has contributed percentage wise bigtime.  But I also get the impression its small core group that donated.

Roderick

P.S. I just checked it seems I am almost 18 years now chairman of OS/2 VOICE. I am getting old :-)

11
Web applications / Re: QT5 simplebrowser
« on: June 07, 2021, 12:10:18 am »
Basically OS/2 VOICE collected about 25000 Euro of the money invested in the QT /webkit port. That is about 55% of total amount of money
spent on this project. The amount of people who donated to VOICE are about 100 users. What I am trying to make clear is that we have pretty good inside how many people are donating. And of the 100 donors the bulk of the money came from about 10 people.
One person donated 10.000 Dollars.
Roderick Klein
President OS/2 VOICE

What is getting me tired, and sometimes getting on my nerves, is that you still count everything "as collected by OS2VOICE". As I mentioned already in my Post in February a lot has been an effort of the german os2.de users, where we started several donation campaigns.

I do not know what the reason for this kind of "counting" is, that is beyond my mind, but as I said in February, one can not do things in a more discourageing way.

As I estimated then, "we" collected at least 10.000 to 13.000 Euros, I even donated one Lenovo X250 Laptop in 2019 during our User Meeting in Cologne for a raffle....

I do not want a special "thank you" from bww because the money they got is really well invested money. It is OK the way it is, that is fine. But allways this "OS2 VOICE" make it possible and so on...

You are doing a really well job, Roderick, but I guess you are not the only one. There is, what is left of it, the whole community supporting this project. Everyone as he/she/it can.



When you mentioned it last time, I corrected that. I  estimate VOICE collected 25.000 Euro (about 55%)  In my Warpstock presentation yesterday I did credit the German community. You can find that in the youtube video stream the attached presentation.  Note the presentation slides where put togheter during dinner on Saturday evening. So I hope its accurate enough.  It should have  stated German speaking community BTW.

Here you can find the slides included after the interview with Dmitry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eltHLPz-VBA
The presentation slides are located at around  04:40:00.

For historical records this pie charts represents the sponsorship to BWW for the QT/webklit engine browser project.

Roderick

12
Web applications / Re: QT5 simplebrowser
« on: June 06, 2021, 11:54:11 pm »
Martin the positive articles have already been published, from my point of view at least. BWW has been warning for years they need funding.
Anything wrong with how I wrote the QT update news letters on articles.os2voice.org ? Then let me know. Where they to negative ?

Martin I have tried to inspire people with my newsletters but it did not work, that is bottom line.

Is it positive that Silvan pays 7000 Euro out of his pocket in 2020 to keep Dmitry working on porting code ?
I paid 1000 Euro in total over the last 2 months to the BWW webshop from money I made during my dayjob.

I can not speak for Silvan I would cetainly be willing to continue doing this donating money to BWW.
But only if more people would contribute. For me and the small group of donors that have kept the funding flowing it does not feel right.
Even if people would donate 10 or 20 Euro's.  And i am not expecting everybody to be so wild and crazy about OS/2 as you and me are. But it would be big encouragement if more people made smaller donations.


I am not chruncing statistics, its rather simple. I rather try to make an *estimate* how many people are left in the OS/2 community. I always hear/heard that the community is to small to fund these type of projects. But we have _no_ clue how big the community actually is, or do we ? That is exactly why I asked Adrian for ANPM statistics from rpm.netlabs.org to make somewhat of estimate how many private users are left. Instead of making wild guess how many users are left world wide. Then to find out OS/2 VOICE has 100 email addresses of paypal donors was kind of blow to me away... Then consider that we collected the bulk of the money and we have 109 donators. Me and the people at BWW  also need some positive developments to be encouraged for change...

BWW has been asking for years for extra donations and making clear what BWW does for OS/2. So how was that message not delivered possitive and clearly ?

I am tech guy with an IT background and I am not marketing expert. I have some idea how to communicate but the message is simple.
We have been asking for money to continue the OS/2 development, we are running out of funding.
We think its possible to continue doing this development...

So tell me what is missing in the messages we send out then via articles.os2voice.org ?

I am out of idea's.

Roderick

13
Web applications / Re: QT5 simplebrowser
« on: June 06, 2021, 10:27:28 pm »
There was an implication that more people downloading the browser then donating was somehow bad - and I connected it to the attitude that people who previously purchased arcaos licenses are also being painted as somehow "bad".
AKA A negative tone that very much is relevant to the thread.. I'm just saying that tone is getting tiresome. Like stop counting chickens before you get the eggs. And if you get the eggs than have enough grace to be thankful not resentful.

People consider negative what I wrote, at least I think you are refering to what I wrote.

I will put it simple. I do not consider it unfair to appeal to people to make a donation to Bitwise works for the development of software they effectively provide free of charge. The warning has been coming for years for BWW that they need funding in order continue development.
Now the funding is running out. The new browser and most of the DLL's in rpm.netlabs.org are being ported and maintained by Bitwise Works.
It will get finished but it will be slowed down. We are pretty close.

Does the community want this development to stop yes or no, that is the key question ?

What I pointed out is that nobody had a clue how many private OS/2 we have. It seems nobody tried to figure out to even start to understand how viable asking for sponsorship from the community. And to be honest I also did not know. Arca Noae never released any numbers how many licenses they sold of ArcaOS. I do have an impression of the size of the community when I worked at Mensys until 2013.

I came up with the idea to see how many people used Arca Noae Package Manager to download updates from rpm.netlabs.org.
These updates are being provided free of charge to the community by BWW. Now that not everybody makes donation I can understand.
There are 500 to 600 users (measurement over 6 weeks during a summer vacation). I personally think we have way more private OS/2 users but not everybody has ANPM installed or they do not run it. I have seen users at Dutch user group meetings that do not know that ANPM is in the
System setup folder in an ArcaOS installation. My overal impression that we have at least a few thousand OS/2 users world wide.

While BWW is German Limited company in 2020 Silvan Scherrer, co owner of BWW, put in 7000 Euro of his own money to contribute to the salary of Dmitry so he could be paid to continue development. Effectively it runs at a loss BWW. Over the last 2 months I put in 1000 Euro to help getting the new browser out.

Here is the interview with DMitry and the explaining how big the percentage is of people donating.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eltHLPz-VBA
The portion about the new browser and the financial position of BWW starts at 04:09:05.
Portion about the financial stuff starts at 04:40:00.

Basically OS/2 VOICE collected about 25000 Euro of the money invested in the QT /webkit port. That is about 55% of total amount of money
spent on this project. The amount of people who donated to VOICE are about 100 users. What I am trying to make clear is that we have pretty good inside how many people are donating. And of the 100 donors the bulk of the money came from about 10 people.
One person donated 10.000 Dollars.

If we indeed have a few thousand users in the community and 100 people are donating
well that is pretty low if you ask me...

But do you guys want to see the development for OS/2 by BWW stop yes or no ?
And if you guys do not want to stop how do we collect money then ?

Even if people could donate 10 or 20 Euro's a year that would help a lot, but that is not happening...
I am not marketing guy, I am tech guy.  If the above is presented negative, well sorry.

That is the reality we are in.

Roderick Klein
President OS/2 VOICE

14
Web applications / Re: QT5 simplebrowser
« on: June 06, 2021, 09:26:12 pm »
There was an implication that more people downloading the browser then donating was somehow bad - and I connected it to the attitude that people who previously purchased arcaos licenses are also being painted as somehow "bad".

Where did LewisRosenthal write that then ?

Roderick

15
Web applications / Re: QT5 simplebrowser
« on: June 06, 2021, 03:00:47 pm »
But, will ArcaOS be the only future for OS/2? I am still very happy to use the AN Software Subscription for Drivers to have an up to date Warp 4.52 without ANPM (this is my special vision of using OS/2).
I agree that I also don't think legacy OS/2 users & ecomstation users should be "locked out" of the castle like criminals.
Unfortunately the os/2 community seems to be taking a bit of a dark tone as of recently from what i've seen.

While I appreciate all the great work Arca Noae has done - Lewis Rosenthal has strongly implied on this forum in the past that he considers people that don't keep their subscriptions "active" bad customers.and that kind of attitude is being displayed here as well.

I get that the platform needs resources but it's definitely getting old - since the only thing keeping me using the OS is my interest in it :) which could disappear rather quickly. I've spent more money on the platform then I really even have gotten back.. for example I purchased access to openoffice not once but twice and haven't even really used it yet at all.
I purchased my arcaos iso and then forgot to download it on time and ended up "updating" just to get access to my iso again.
I purchased RJ CD writer when I was using ecomstation but the license apparently doesn't work on Arcaos... since it was locked to ECS... so that money was just down the drain.
If anything people owe me money back from the return on investment i've gotten as of lately:). (I jest there lol since I don't expect money back from my own decisions)

It would be better to motivate people with positivity from the way I see it..... or I could start sending people a bill to punish all the companies that iv'e foolishly spent money on :D :D :D :D :D.

I think what Lewis was kind of saying is that they had people who purchased a license for ArcaOS. Then they have a subscription and they let it expire and then 2 or 3 years later want to buy a subscription when they need support.  The way I understand if you let your subscription expire for more then 12 months you pay a reinstatement fee.  At the end of the day the ongoing development has to be paid somehow.

That said I get the impression ArcaOS is really picking up on a lot of its backlog. Wifi drivers are in development, new Uniaud, NVMe support, UEFI and GPT support, USB XHCD support.

As for your point about RSJ I can comment on RSJ to some extend. eComStation came with a limited version of RSJ and it had to tied to eComStation somehow. I know because I made the deal with RSJ uears ago. That said the full license of RSJ you can/could buy should just work on ArcaOS. Its the version that came with eComStation that only runs on eCS. Did you accidently somehow install the version from RSJ for eCS ? Or was there update version that was also tied to eCS ? I can not remember 100% for certain. Its about 15 years ago.

RSJ might not work with the OS2AHCI driver, is that case ?

Roderick

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