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OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - Technical => Applications => Topic started by: Martin Iturbide on March 13, 2019, 10:48:39 pm

Title: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Martin Iturbide on March 13, 2019, 10:48:39 pm
Hi

One of my frustrations is that I was never able to run the X11 GUI from XFree86-OS/2.
 
Is it possible to run it under ArcaOS today inside a Virtual Machine? Or is it require some specific hardware?
I want to give it try, nothing specific, I want to try some software that was ported to it as a curiosity.

Regards
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Dave Yeo on March 13, 2019, 10:56:37 pm
It runs under ArcaOS with real hardware fine. Need to use the VESA driver unless you have a supported card.
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Martin Iturbide on March 14, 2019, 12:48:12 pm
Thanks
I will give it a try again, only in real hardware.

This is the latest version, right? http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/h-browse.php?dir=/pub/os2/system/x11/XFree86/v3.3.1
Correction: I found the last one is 3.3.6, right? (Archived WebSite (http://web.archive.org/web/20030210112617/http://borneo.gmd.de/~veit/os2/xf86os2.html))

I'm using Panorama on my real hardware machine (Intel HD Graphics 3000), which will be the file of the VESA driver?

Regards

Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Sean Casey on March 14, 2019, 04:29:03 pm
Hey Martin,

Please post your experience getting X installed as I am interested in using XSane and GIMP on OS/2.
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Dave Yeo on March 14, 2019, 04:33:21 pm
Latest is at ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/xfree86/4.5.0/ (http://ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/xfree86/4.5.0/). The vesa driver is called just that.
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Dave Yeo on March 14, 2019, 05:12:50 pm
Attached is my xfEnvSetup.cmd, started as "xfEnvSetup f" here as X11 is installed in f:\usr\X11R6. And the XF86Config I'm currently using. XF86Config here goes in f:\usr\X11R6\X11.
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Sean Casey on March 14, 2019, 06:08:36 pm
Latest is at ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/xfree86/4.5.0/ (http://ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/xfree86/4.5.0/). The vesa driver is called just that.

I'm not familiar with a "vesa" specific driver.  Does Panorama work w. XFree as it is based on the GRADD driver which I believe is also VESA compliant.  I found I was limited to 1280x1024 using the GRADD driver, but I have been very happy using the Panorama driver which supports 1900x. 
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Dave Yeo on March 14, 2019, 06:25:03 pm
Latest is at ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/xfree86/4.5.0/ (http://ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/xfree86/4.5.0/). The vesa driver is called just that.

I'm not familiar with a "vesa" specific driver.  Does Panorama work w. XFree as it is based on the GRADD driver which I believe is also VESA compliant.  I found I was limited to 1280x1024 using the GRADD driver, but I have been very happy using the Panorama driver which supports 1900x.

Xfree/2 uses its own video driver infrastructure, giving you another desktop independent of usual OS/2 desktop. It comes with various video drivers but generally they're too old for modern systems, so just like we have to use Panorama now, on Xfree/2, we use the VESA driver.
I'm not sure what resolution XFree is running at here but it looks fine, as in not stretched, on this 1680x1050 monitor.
I should play around more.
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Dave Yeo on March 14, 2019, 09:35:50 pm
Looking, here it seems to be running at 1280x1024. Tried forcing it higher but got no screens found error. In theory by feeding it the right settings, should be able to get full resolution. It's an old port now.
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Sean Casey on March 15, 2019, 04:04:15 am
Xfree/2 uses its own video driver infrastructure, giving you another desktop independent of usual OS/2 desktop.

Thanks for the education as I was dreaming about keeping the PM windows manager and running X windows applications either in a multi-window or seamless mode on the PM desktop.  I'll just stick to Linux when I need to work with GIMP or XSane.  There's nothing better than PM and its native applications - the reason I decided to move back to OS/2 after taking a 25 year hiatus.
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Dave Yeo on March 15, 2019, 04:17:01 am
It's is possible to run the VNC X video driver and display the X session on the desktop on PMVNC, be sorta seamless mode.
There's also alternative X programs such as HobX, http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/system/x11/ux1135.zip (http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/system/x11/ux1135.zip) for a seamless X server.
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Martin Iturbide on March 16, 2019, 02:12:43 am
Hi Dave

It seems it worked by using your files. This is what I did.
1) I unziped the XFree86 files with the two fixes from netlabs. I add them on my  "x:\usr". X:\ is my primary partition on the ArcaOS machine I have.  I found a conflict on x:\etc\fonts\fonts.conf. I just leave the newer one from my system and did not used the one from XFree86.
2) Copied Dave's XF86Config to x:\usr\x11R6\X11
3 ) Copied Dave's xfEnvSetup.cmd to the root and modified it with my drive and trying to point direcctly to the paths (sorry but I don't get the %1 thing)
4) Added to my config.sys path "x:\usr\X11R6\bin;" and to the libpath "x:\usr\X11R6\lib;"
5) Added to the config.sys file "DEVICE=X:\usr\X11R6\lib\xf86sup.sys"
Reboot
Run the xfEnvSetup.cmd and see the X interface running.

I'm attaching the modified just in case someone wants to try it out.

Now I need to learn how to run some games, tools and take some screenshots. 
Thanks Dave for helping me with this, I wanted to run XFree86 since long time ago.

Regards
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Dave Yeo on March 16, 2019, 04:13:09 am
Hi Martin, glad it is working for you.
Quote
3 ) Copied Dave's xfEnvSetup.cmd to the root and modified it with my drive and trying to point direcctly to the paths (sorry but I don't get the %1 thing)

The %1 thing is the first parameter to xfEnvSetup.cmd, so you'd run it as
Code: [Select]
xfEnvSetup X
To make it more portable
Quote
4) Added to my config.sys path "x:\usr\X11R6\bin;" and to the libpath "x:\usr\X11R6\lib;"
Also so you didn't need this in your config.sys as xfEnvSetup.cmd took care of adding it.

To start programs, IIRC
Code: [Select]
start /n program
In an xterm or on the OS/2 desktop
Code: [Select]
start /n program -display 0:0
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Martin Iturbide on March 17, 2019, 02:35:50 pm
Hi

I'm testing some games like xkobo and xgalaga and I get errors like:
Quote
xkobo: (warning) can't read score-file X:/XFree86/lib/x11/xkobo/0

The path is wrong since I'm just putting the bin on X:\usr\X11R6\bin.  Is this some configuration thing? or the path was hard coded on xkobo  when compiled?

Regards
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Dave Yeo on March 17, 2019, 06:10:36 pm
The PATH was probably hard coded. Xfree86 3.3 and earlier were installed in x:\XFree86 rather  then \usr\X11R6. At that Holger at one point had a nice installer that installed XFree86 along with TVFS and set up a bunch of symlinks to have it installed on X: as a TVFS volume. The advantage was that all volumes could also be symlinked to X: so those programs that didn't understand drive letters could see all drives.
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Martin Iturbide on March 18, 2019, 07:46:25 pm
Thanks Dave

I will keep experimenting with XFree86-OS2. Since I already told you that it is the first time that I had made it run after all this time using OS/2.

Any tips are welcome, for example how to take screenshots, or if there is a way to have icons or somekind of launcher there.


To start programs, IIRC
Code: [Select]
start /n program
In an xterm or on the OS/2 desktop
Code: [Select]
start /n program -display 0:0

I didn't get that? Do you mean I can run a XFree86 program directly from the OS/2 Command line? (without launching x first?)

Regards
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: ivan on March 18, 2019, 10:58:17 pm
If you are running the XFree86 as a window on the OS/2 desktop then I would recommend Gotcha (on hobbes) to take screenshots.

I do that if I need a screenshot when I am using HobX11 - like you I never got XFree86 to work reliably so I boughr Hobx11 and never looked back.
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Dave Yeo on March 19, 2019, 02:28:08 am
Thanks Dave

I will keep experimenting with XFree86-OS2. Since I already told you that it is the first time that I had made it run after all this time using OS/2.

Any tips are welcome, for example how to take screenshots, or if there is a way to have icons or somekind of launcher there.

Screenshots are done with xwd. For testing, "xwd | xwud" and click the window you want to shoot, desktop for all. To save, something like "xwd -out /tmp/window.xwd" and to convert to something useful like png, "ffmpeg -i window.xwd window.png"

There used to be quite a few window managers floating around, they handle icons, launchers, window frames etc. You're probably using twm which is a really basic window manager. See my screenshot with fvwm.

Quote
To start programs, IIRC
Code: [Select]
start /n program
In an xterm or on the OS/2 desktop
Code: [Select]
start /n program -display 0:0

I didn't get that? Do you mean I can run a XFree86 program directly from the OS/2 Command line? (without launching x first?)
You need an Xserver to connect to. In theory you could launch a program and have it run it on my system with the right permissions. You could also have a Linux box and run the Linux programs on the OS/2 Xserver.

Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Doug Clark on March 19, 2019, 04:36:53 am
Martin, Sean,

You could also try pmx as the x windows server on OS/2.  Each x window it creates is a seamless window on the desktop - actually a PM window. So you can resize the window to whatever size you want. I took the screen shot of the Gimp  windows on eComStation 2.0 (running SNAP dual head) with PMview, but pmx appears to run ok on AOS also.

The only x windows application I know of that runs on OS/2 is Gimp. Which makes an OS/2 x windows server useful mainly for running applications on another machine - most probably another machine running Linux. Conceptually sort of like VNC or Remote Desktop - but for unix applications, or applications ported from unix.

I stopped using Linux years ago so Dave Yeo is a better authority on this - but it seems to me the Linux world has moved away from x windows to other graphical APIs for its applications
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Dave Yeo on March 19, 2019, 06:44:03 am
Where is PMX available?
As for Linux, most distributions are still using X though they're trying to get away from it. It's hard to make another graphics layer that everyone agrees to and most programs are written for X.
I will note that X, or rather the session managers and window managers are a lot more familiar to people now, as in working more like Windows then traditional X where copy and pasting is done by highlighting something and middle clicking to paste and scroll bars scroll in different directions based on which mouse button you click. Even on OS/2, X has its own clipboard.
As for programs, at one point we had quite a few. QT, GTK etc were all ported. Mozilla first ran on X, just fired up Warpzilla 0.98. About the only page it would load was Hobbes :)
Sadly most of the old programs seem to be lost, especially the source code.
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Doug Clark on March 19, 2019, 12:24:27 pm
Martin,
I didn't get that? Do you mean I can run a XFree86 program directly from the OS/2 Command line? (without launching x first?)

If you are using pmx you can start the pmx x windows server in your startup folder. It then sits in the upper right corner of your desktop waiting for a "connection" You can then start any x windows program from the command line.

Dave,

From the great cornucopia of all things OS/2: Hobbes. Search for pmx_204gu.zip.

It appears the default configuration for pmx is to unify the x windows and pm clipboard: there is  a setting to "turn off cut/paste X Windows and PM"

It is interesting that so many applications on Linux are still x windows.
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Dave Yeo on March 20, 2019, 07:46:45 am


Dave,

From the great cornucopia of all things OS/2: Hobbes. Search for pmx_204gu.zip.

It appears the default configuration for pmx is to unify the x windows and pm clipboard: there is  a setting to "turn off cut/paste X Windows and PM"

It is interesting that so many applications on Linux are still x windows.

I tried installing pmx, it errored out with not being able to stat pmxe1.zip and failed to install only creating a directory containing an empty TMP directory.
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: ivan on March 20, 2019, 10:01:37 am
Dave,  I think the problem is that the zip file on hobbes is only a Corrective Service offering and not the complete PMX package. I tried to check the other PMX files on hobbes but hobbes is down at the moment.
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Doug Clark on March 20, 2019, 04:34:15 pm
Oops - you also need pmx204_guP2.zip.  It contains the missing PMXE*.ZIP files. Unzip both to the same temporary directory and then run the install. The two together comprise the entire package.

Note this is beta software.
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Doug Clark on March 21, 2019, 07:17:20 pm
Update - I don't have any Linux boxes anymore but I do have a number of MacBooks - which run (or can run) X Windows and run Apple's version of Unix under the covers.

The attached screen shot shows three X Windows applets running on a MacBook  and displayed "seamlessly" on an OS/2 desktop - in this case ArcaOS. To do this I had to (or think I had to) install openSSH on OS/2 in order to connect to the MacBook.  The MacBook required some editing of the sshd_config file to enable X11 forwarding, and the turning on of Remote login in Sharing in System Preferences.
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Sean Casey on March 21, 2019, 08:53:19 pm
Very nice.  Getting this installed will be my weekend project.   

When I attempted an install of the OpenSSH client on my ArcaOS via YUM in Nov. I received an error that the rpm package was corrupt.  I understand this has now be corrected.

I see you are also using UDB, which I also plan to install on my Warp Server in the near future.

Thank you!
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Doug Clark on March 21, 2019, 09:46:44 pm
I actually installed OpenSSH from Alex Taylor's distribution - www.altsan.org/os2/utils/

Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Sean Casey on March 25, 2019, 05:15:45 pm
Installed PMX and Alex Taylor's OpenSSH.  Screen updates are extremely slow and menus aren't very legible   I'll need to tinker to see if this can be improved.
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Martin Iturbide on March 27, 2019, 03:13:32 am
Hi

I'm kind of frustrated that I don't have time to go faster on this subject. I received a 200MB WPI file with an XFree86 installer that is very promising, I got a partial success trying it on a VM. I really hope that the author can make it public some day.

For the moment I can only launch the X11 full screen session, but I don't understand how to run X11 apps on windowed mode, like Doug and Sean are showing on their screenshots.

I'm sorry, but I'm lagging behind the group on this subject.

Regards

Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Sean Casey on March 27, 2019, 03:29:58 am
Hi Martin,

Doug and I were successful using PMX.  There wasn't anything unusual about my installation/configuration.  Have you considered giving this a try?   
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Martin Iturbide on March 27, 2019, 11:21:11 pm
Hi Sean

I already have XFree86-OS/2 installed and running with Dave's script. It runs the basic GUI (X Window Server?) like the picture I attached.

I'm getting right now PMX and checking the readme to see if I understand how to make it work.

My goal will be to start with the XFree86-OS/2 games to take some screenshots for the gaming site.

Regards
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Sean Casey on March 28, 2019, 01:00:26 am
For the moment I can only launch the X11 full screen session, but I don't understand how to run X11 apps on windowed mode, like Doug and Sean are showing on their screenshots.

Unlike the commercial X desktops like Exceed and PMX, XFree was designed to run full screen and not operate in a seamless windowed mode, nor does it share the Clipboard w. OS/2.  However, you should be able to switch between XFree and PM using Alt-Escape. 

Unfortunately for my use, PMX is too sluggish.  Since my OS/2 desktop is run within a Linux VM, I'll just have to minimize OS/2 to access the few Linux applications I have been unable to replace with native PM alternatives.   I have an Exceed license I formerly used w. Windblows and the performance was fine, so I'll need to revisit why PMX is so sluggish with OS/2.
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Dave Yeo on March 28, 2019, 01:44:52 am
You can use the vnc driver with XFree86 and use pmvnc to display it on the OS/2 desktop. Still no shared clipboard.
The trick with running multiple X servers on the same system is the display parameter/environmental variable. The first one should have :0 and the second one :1,usually with the IP address, 127.0.0.1:0 or 127.0.0.1:1 for example though the OS/2 port of XFree86 actually defaults to using pipes rather then tcp/ip to communicate and to use pipes uses :0 (or :1)
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: David Graser on March 28, 2019, 02:39:59 am
More doodles.  3 simple X server PNGs.
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Rick Smith on January 18, 2021, 09:53:12 pm
Hi Sean

I already have XFree86-OS/2 installed and running with Dave's script. It runs the basic GUI (X Window Server?) like the picture I attached.

I'm getting right now PMX and checking the readme to see if I understand how to make it work.

My goal will be to start with the XFree86-OS/2 games to take some screenshots for the gaming site.

Regards

I have been trying to get this going as well.. you mention a script was this to aid in install or running it or both? Can you share the script you used?

Thankyou

Rick
Title: Re: XFree86-OS/2
Post by: Dave Yeo on January 19, 2021, 04:13:24 am
This is the script I use to start X11, started like "xfEnvSetup.cmd X" where X is the drive letter of X11root where X11 is installed.
Note I have display=127.0.0.1:0.0 for running kLIBC compiled binaries which don't do pipes correctly and a better setting is display=:0.0