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Messages - JTA

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1
Perhaps you can dig deep into the vbox manual for the version of vbox you want to run on mac.

Inside the release of the docs for your version, there is specifically Chp 04, and additionally other chapters and pointers to all the release notes, changes & limitations. Perhaps all of this will show something you'll recognize for why things changed under mac & vbox versions you ended up on.

Might even be worthwhile to read the VMware docs on the same subjects, to see why a VM might run better on VMware.

I still don't understand exactly what piece of perf dropped on your vbox setup ... is it specifically cpu, ram, disk, network? Vbox windowing (of the OS/2 guest)? Seamless mouse support between vbox and guest? If reading the docs didn't catch the new limitation for you, then more utility testing of each piece inside AOS might narrow things down to the culprit.

Generically, you say it is unusable or similar, but you might have to dig deeper to see what piece is giving you the most grief. With that identified, perhaps the vbox docs for 7.1.6 will show you why it changed, or will point you at a specific VM setting that helps, until they sort out something better with a future release.

For myself, I must have guest additions (GA tools) for OS/2, for many of my OS/2 efforts & projects, and that pretty much rules out VMware or other virt platforms, leaving only Virtualbox for me. Specifically, I must have the Host/VM shared folders functionality.

However, from all I'm reading and catching up on (what additional features are supported by installing GA tools, what features are native w/o the guest tools, etc.), if you really don't need the GA tools, perhaps you can switch to VMware. As Mac is Linux these days, perhaps other virt platforms can be used?

Hope this helps ...

2
The Warpstock site definitely feels old ... I clicked around my earlier link (my fault), and feel sure I'm hitting the real front page. It still feels "old", because:
  - It shows the 2024 warpstock event ... perhaps that's what folks want to show? Not the future event for 2025, but leave the older event up until something changes, even thought that event is over?
  - dozens of other links/entries show nothing but old dates ... this contributes to the feeling that nothing is ever updated on Warpstock.
  - if I travel a link to get to something, I things like "the last entry was 2007" or such. Perhaps take off these "old" dates altogether?

I was able to remote into the 2024 event, but per another thread I have on this forum (right below this thread), there were all kinds of issues, and it left me feeling like I couldn't participate as well as if I were there (and I couldn't attend the 2024 site). It was free, but I'd gladly pay to get something better ...

I still have no idea how "the process" will work to plan for 2025 ... there is no calendar that I can easily find, so I have no idea how, or if, I can participate in that. Meetings may happen, or will happen, but it's a black hole at the moment, almost 6 months in. After 6 months, shouldn't there be something, somewhere? And more specifically, something about all the presentations that are going to happen in 2025? To build momentum?

I posted here on os2world, because this site feels newer ... things are happening, and I thought it would get more eyeballs on it. The "forum" pieces of Warpstock seem old ... the last "event" entries were from 2022.

Perhaps OS/2 itself is fading not because it is old, but because there's too much old stuff about it laying around (Warpstock is one such site ... user groups are another). There just isn't a good effort underway (that I can see) to sell all the new possibilities of OS/2 ...

I love OS/2 ... I presented in 2023, so I love the idea of Warpstock (and it's still a cool name) ... just can't seem to see the fireworks around OS/2.

3
As in, I can't find any activity on the Warpstock site about 2025, and I'd like to see more activity and thought going into the next one. Issues, actions, etc.:

1. update the Warpstock site ... it shows Warpstock 2023 still !?!?
  - put something up about 2025
  - put something up about the "process" (board has various open or closed meetings, etc.)
  - is it just me, or is the Warpstock site slow (as in molasses slow)?

2. call for ideas, early, and often
  - start to flesh out the sessions/tracks sooner, to build "sales" and enthusiasm

3. have a remote-in capability, just as valuable as in-person (I'd pay for this)

4. how can we help?

And so on ...

4
"Despite my earlier prediction that VMWare was the way to go, there also seems to be a network issue with VMWare on macOS 15 Sequoia (the latest macOS). After about 5 minutes the network in ArcaOS drops then might come back 15 mins or so later, then goes again. It's not an IP or MAC address clash which was my first thought. This does not happen with macOS 14 Sonoma, the previous version - it seems rock solid."

Hmmm ... shouldn't have worked at all, as the guest OS is AOS, and there are no "full" guest additions for VMware as the Type-2 hypervisor. AOS will run in a VMware vm, but unless AN is now providing a set of VMware guest additions in their AOS, it can't comm with the outside world. In other words:
1. have a host OS (windows, linux, max)
2. install a Type-2 hypervisor (VMware, Virtualbox)
3. create a VM (and give it a network conn type, utilizing the host's ethernet adapter)
4a. install a guest OS into the vm
  - on VMware, the only supported guests are those which have VMware guest additions, typically these are modern Win or Linux OS's
4b. inside the guest OS, install a "full" set of Guest additions (this is where it gets tricky):
  - Windows OS (both VMware & Vbox have full guest additions to install; this turns on networking)
  - Linux (both VMware & Vbox have full guest additions to install; this turns on networking)
  - AOS:
    - Vbox has some older versions of a full set of guest additions (and Valery has a version)
    - AOS has something in it that turns on, when in a vbox vm

So, even though a VMware vm has a network adapter defined in it's vm settings, this doesn't come to life all the way in the Guest OS until a full set of supported guest additions gets installed into the vm; there aren't any for AOS for VMware, although the find of a Github drivers set, with mouse and clipboard support is interesting ... this find gives us some partial support.

This limits AOS to vbox, if you want full "guest additions" support. Hyper-V is a Type-1 hypervisor, but the same issues apply ... there is no full guest additions support for os/2 (obviously, as MS could care less) in Hyper-V.

If you think you got full network support, or full video support, etc., out of your AOS under VMware, then that warrants some further exploring (as to how you got it to work).

Hope this clears things up ... please advise if yours (or anyone's) experiences are different ...

5
My AOS 5.1 works perfectly fine in Virtualbox 7.0.14, although I run everything on a Windows host OS.

For VMware, there are most likely no better (full) "guest additions" for OS/2 or AN, as what you've got are partial, and VMware dropped their full os/2 guest additions years ago. I'd think that VMware is a dead end for anything except a "pure" os/2 in a vm that doesn't interact with the host or the outside world.

If you can go back to Virtualbox, and as it does have both a full "guest additions" and AOS support, I would suggest:

1. get to the latest 7.x virtualbox out there (for your mac)
2. create a new VM (with whatever tweaks in the vm settings that folks suggest)
3. install a new AOS 5.1 (or whatever your latest AOS version is ... the guest additions are built-in)

Doing all this new stuff cuts out any "upgrade" issues that might be present with the old stuff.

This should also allow AOS to turn on their vbox full "guest additions" stuff once the initial AN OS install is complete. IIRC, nothing else needed to be done ... we don't install any Vbox older Guest Additions, or Valery's (both are "old"). Your AOS build with AN's guest additions should interact with the Host OS and the outside world just fine, per that AN support page Martin pointed out.

Hope this helps ...

6
Comments, Suggestions & Questions / Re: OS/2 Licensing
« on: December 30, 2024, 06:49:21 pm »
OS/2 (ms & ibm versions) are, for me, Whack-A-MOS's (Whack-A-Mole OS's) ...

They are copyright and enjoined on paper & shrinkwrap, and by copyright law, but because their copyright owners have mostly abandoned them, it's now moot. Add to that the Internet distribution models of today (archive.org, many others), they can no longer be "contained" (restricted). Finally, virtualization capabilities of modern hardware and software allow anything, from any time, to be explored & tested. Availability is not containable for pretty much any piece of software from any time period, unlike the old days.

This means these OS's will pop their heads up in many configurations and uses, and it would be up to MS, IBM, and others to decide if that head, as popped up, warrants "whacking" (egregious use warrants whacking by cease&desist, lawsuits, etc.; casual use does not, at this time).

ArcaOS is an exception, as it is a modern OS, licensed and enforced in such a way that you know who is redistributing it (illegally), and the owners (AN) can go after it if any such illegal use head pops up. It is also small enough that it has escaped modern developer attention (hacking it's distribution model in any form).

My own use case? "I see dead OS's ..."
... and then I bring them back to life (with virtualization software), and put them to use again! There are infinite possibilities here. This ranges from DOS and earlier, to OS/2 and later, Win and later, and many others ... I even have a mainframe running in virtualization (this is a little trickier to get it to do something useful for me, but I'm working on it).

So, if you can get at an OS (or any piece of software), make use of it ... just don't let your head rise up too far to where it gets noticed, and position yourself for whacking ...

7
General Discussion / Re: OS/2 - ArcaOS Santa's List for 2025
« on: December 06, 2024, 03:21:07 pm »
Winflector, while a paid application, has something of immense value to us all ... they offer a free 1-user server license, and the clients are free. No time limits ...

Thus, on my AToF solution (everything running on one desktop/laptop), you are delivering 64-bit apps to your OS/2 vm, all for free. Or, you can put the server somewhere else on your home network, and deliver 64-bit apps to your dedicated OS/2 machine. That's a lot of value for the OS/2 community, which I suspect is much bigger than a few users ...

Commercially, we all guesstimate that this user pool is quite large, from hints dropped, and focus of ArcaNoae ... I'm beating the drum as loudly as I can, at the past two Warpstocks and elsewhere, and at last Warpstock, AN did mention that they should look further into Winflector. If ArcaNoae talks to Winflector, there could be lots of symmetry in that relationship ... plus, AN has the true numbers for OS/2, commercial and non-commercial.

This would really help the community out, while we try to get more open-source apps converted to native.

Imagine a new OS/2 developer sitting at a laptop (running in AToF fashion) & pounding out code ... developing on an ArcaOS desktop that runs any 64-bit (or other) app he or she would ever need, via Winflector.

8
General Discussion / Re: OS/2 - ArcaOS Santa's List for 2025
« on: December 05, 2024, 07:09:32 pm »
Sure, it's closed source ... Winflector folks own it, but note that they are producing clients for other platforms: win, linux, RPi, mac, android, html5 ...

We just need folks (ArcaOS, Paul S. ... you?) to help them get the client ported to OS/2 & ArcaOS ... I just don't know what that help looks like, but ArcaNoae, Paul, and hopefully others can work with them and possibly make it happen?

The benefits would be huge ... any 64-bit app, "running" under OS/2 in a native PM desktop window ...

9
General Discussion / Re: OS/2 - ArcaOS Santa's List for 2025
« on: December 05, 2024, 06:57:02 pm »
Discussed a few times, and brought it up again (remotely at 2024 warpstock), but please add an entry for Winflector into the software section:

winflector.com

Goal would be to get the Winflector folks to produce a native 32-bit OS/2 client, by porting their linux 32-bit client over to OS/2. I'm trying to facilitate ArcaNoae, Winflector (and possibly Paul S.) to get together and get this client porting effort done. If it happens, then we have pretty much any 64-bit app available to us under OS/2, ArcaOS, in a native OS/2 window frame.

Currently, Winflector works with OS/2 via their HTML5 client ... I show that this works in my AToF post:

https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,3502.0.html

... and here is the Winflector "request" for native winflector 32-bit client for OS/2:

https://www.winflector.com/store/forum/topic-view/id/610

Currently, Winflector's HTML5 client relies on older browsers for OS/2, which tend to not be developed much beyond their last version ever released. This HTML5 support works, and we can get 64-bit apps into OS/2, but ... a native OS/2 client would be so much better.

Thanks!

10
Hardware / Re: Observations on intel vs AMD
« on: November 10, 2024, 03:17:48 pm »
AME is a key component of my virtualization processes over in the virt sub-forum ... it makes for a perfect, stripped down HostOS, that then runs any other os in a VM, such as ArcaOS. Gets me x64 apps into ArcaOS.

  os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,3498.0.html

I've been running AME for nearly two years now, and there hasn't been any problems, security issues, or such that I can find. On the other hand, there also have not been any data leaks going the other way back to MS, nor have I had to put up with their crud (changes, advertising, etc.) coming my way.

I can report that AME is good stuff ... saves me *hours* of trying to strip out by hand all of MS' garbage in their os's ...

11
OK ... to recap, on the 1st day of Warpstock:

- video/audio streaming ... via youtube link Martin will put up
- q's or other input to warpstock sessions ... use libera IRC link, & Martin will relay into session

I did get into libera without creating an online account, and that's good. I already have a Warpstock (website) account, and wasn't looking to create more to get feeds into Warpstock 2024.

I don't know what others think, but I could envision paying something (up to full registration fee?) to get a more unified single tool approach to video/audio/remote-user-input. It could perhaps be a way for Warpstock to bring in the remote folks (and get them up to parity with being there?), and a way for others and I to officially support the Warpstock conferences, if we can't actually get there in person in a given year ...

Thanks, Martin!


12
IRC ... seems to require "yet another logon account and login process".

Is it possible email questions/comments to someone at the event, or post q's and comments to this forum in a special thread and have them checked by someone at the event?

13
Events / Warpstock 2024 - For folks trying to participate remotely, how ...
« on: September 18, 2024, 05:51:16 pm »
... capable is the remote viewing and participation aspect (video/audio), for those unable to attend in-person this year?

Warpstock website doesn't seem to discuss this much, other than a blurb that suggests if not there in-person, you are SOL (which is one way to sell things).

Video streaming (Martin's video streaming efforts) would seem to allow us to view & hear the sessions. Is there any chance for audio participation, either by hotel setup of audio conferencing, somebody's mostly free audio-conferencing over the internet, someone at the event using their cellphone to tie us in, someone catching the "emailed questions from remote folks" and relaying them in, etc.?

14
Events / Re: Warpstock 2024: Coming? Not Coming? Why?
« on: September 12, 2024, 07:18:41 pm »
Q's extracted from Lewis R. post above:

1. would you come to Warpstock this year?
  - Nothing about the Warpstock site encouraged me to attend in-person ... site must be improved to do a better selling job for OS/2 (why come back to it, why use it, etc.) and ultimately the Warpstock event itself. Take a look at HaikuOS.org and replicate everything. Build interest in Warpstock, starting here ...
  - there absolutely must be a Team OS/2; they have to build interest in everything, everywhere in their geography (OS/2 clubs, etc), all year long, so folks are lined up at the Warpstock locations to see the events. If you build it up, they will come ...
  - both in-person and virtual attendance must be on par, and the warpstock website must make this super-simple (to pay fees, participate, etc.)

2. would sessions on browser functionality make the difference?
  - there must be a "chocolatey" cli install tool for OS/2 (not ANPM, not yum, which are linux tools and which themselves get in the way); whomever creates a browser solution gets the (user) install done with a simple "choco install ThisNiftyBrowser"  ... perhaps "Warp install ThisNiftyBrowser"
  - Warpstock site must have the package list, similar to chocolatey.org
  - there must be well-defined solutions for modern browser access inside OS/2 (AToF & winflector solution provides any modern browser within OS/2)

3. Would sessions on how to use the platform for daily computing make the difference?
  - possibly ... but definitely have Team OS/2 do this, with every team member coming up with tutorials; each team member works with one or more SME's, builds the tutorial. depending on what they came up with, I might attend in-person
  - have a warpstock website suggestion box to catch idea/tutorial requests
  - for the most popular sessions, do live sessions at each location
  - How to solve every technical difficulty with OS/2; bring a laptop & SSD, we'll have you set up with AToF before the session is over (the Warpstock USB Key does the heavy lifting).

4. what would make the trip worthwhile vs watching a live stream
  - building up so much interest in OS/2 (thanks to Team OS/2 activities all year-long), that I absolutely must attend the in-person event nearest me, vs virtual, just to catch the buzz and receive the event largesse (usb key, coffee cup, etc.). Some event items will ONLY be at the in-person locations?
  - USB key (given away at the event, part of event fee) boots directly into OS/2 and demonstrates things; warpstock site mirrors this
  - coordinate the Warpstock event across geographies, such that there are two simultaneous events in east/west usa, two in north/south australia (north covers asia-pacific?), and equivalent for europe; it doesn't matter which location you are at, you are there at Warpstock.
  - roadmaps ... not just ArcaOS' product roadmaps, but roadmaps for OS/2. a roadmap for each of:
    - Team OS/2 (what they did the past year, what they will do next year, are you Warped enough for recruitment, etc.)
    - OS/2 dev (code camps, system setups, etc)
    - getting more apps to OS/2 (LibreOffice, ...)
    - getting apps to do the OS/2 thing (wps, objects)
    - getting past 64-bits for now (AToF and Winflector does this)
    - getting to 64-bits (WorkplaceOS-like on sel4/Nova microkernel)
    - and many more ...

Hope this helps ...

15
Events / Re: Warpstock 2024: Coming? Not Coming? Why?
« on: September 11, 2024, 01:50:45 pm »
I drive vs fly, and Pittsburgh is a tad too far from the Colorado area, so I'll be watching the stream this year ...

I hope Warpstock can bring parity to both sides (conference & virtual attendance), including local clubs video conferencing to the national meetup ... which requires more local clubs. This will be my first virtual attendance.

Basically, I don't understand Warpstock (the .org & website), as that site seems woefully out of date. I can get at historical info, but ... Huge gaps, no (OS/2) news, etc. NO ROADMAPS (here on the site) = no future?

I couldn't tell anyone what any of the roadmaps for OS/2 are ... I think they are:

1. modernize the OS/2 platform ... this is ArcaOS, mostly for commercial purposes(?), but also for consumers. Basically, get ArcaOS onto more modern computing equipment, with more device driver support. OS/2 remains 32-bit.
  - I don't run OS/2 directly on real hardware ... it's too problematic, with 64-bit issues, hardware issues, etc.
  - I do virtualize, and feel that there are "no problems" and "64-bit access to everything", on one machine (even in OS/2)
  - got no traction this past year on a native 32-bit Winflector client for OS/2 (even though a native 32-bit linux client exists (meaning it's 90% done?). A native OS/2 winflector client would've brought very seamless 64-bit apps to OS/2 (the OS/2 browser html5 approach still works, as I demo'd in Warpstock '23, but not as seamlessly). ArcaOS is not driving this, and needs to be?

2. bring more (young) people to OS/2 ... can't find a roadmap for this
  - how does one develop for OS/2 ... what is the perfect dev environment; I couldn't really find anything to give to a kid wanting to develop. nothing ties together.
  - how does one do all of the modern things alongside a not-so-modern OS; as it stands today, I couldn't attract my kids to OS/2 as a single OS on real hardware.
  - what is the platform of the future, that the kids will be driving (hint: I think it's virtualization)

3. get OS/2 on top of 64-bits ... can't find a roadmap for this
  - I did post a thread recently with loose roadmap ... not enough feedback, other than continue on my own until I hit a roadblock. One person was kind enough to say it'll never happen, but I can't put this in the sales pitch slide deck.
  - I run OS/2 on a single modern platform, 64-bits, zero hardware/software problems ... but it requires virtualization; very few realize they can virtualize with today's hardware, and run any os. My scheme (AToF) is not currently packaged to be downloadable, and needs to be.

OS/2 is what it is (at the moment) ... I am just trying to understand where OS/2 is going, much like where Haiku is going ... both were excellent OS's in their original time, and both are still relevant in modern times, but with seemingly different trajectories & futures. Haiku seems to be going somewhere ...

Could we just compliment the Haiku folks, by lifting the Haiku website look & feel for Warpstock?

Hope this helps ...

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