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OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - Technical => Setup & Installation => Topic started by: Martin Vieregg on April 29, 2018, 10:16:49 pm

Title: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: Martin Vieregg on April 29, 2018, 10:16:49 pm
I have switched on an AM4 board from Bristol Ridge processor to the newest Ryzen with Graphics processor Ryzen 2200G and tried to start from ArcaOS USB stick. I got this error message:

Code: [Select]
MemDisk 2011.05.01
Startup drive is floppy or hard disk (80).
Detecting extended memory size ... using INT 15 EAX=E820 'SMAP'
  63 MB starting at 1 MB
Not enough memory

I failed before getting the pre-install menu.
It seems to be an incompatiblity for DOS programs (I assume the first steps on the ArcaOS USB Stick is in DOS).

I have tested it on two different AM4 boards (Asrock and Asus), same effect. Bristol Ridge works, Ryzen G fails.

Any ideas?
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: Doug Bissett on April 30, 2018, 07:05:38 am
Without more to go on, all I can say is that this (or something similar) can happen if you simply updated the ISO file on the stick, without updating the root of the stick. Do the whole setup procedure, following the instructions, and try again.
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: Martin Vieregg on April 30, 2018, 10:33:22 am
But the stick worked fine the past weeks. The problem only occurs when using the Ryzen G processor in the mainboard. Switching back to the old Bristol Ridge processor let the problem disappear.
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: ivan on April 30, 2018, 11:48:57 am
There is a possibility that the problem is associated with the custom ASMedia USB that is incorporated in the newer Ryzen processors.  For some reason ASMedia do something that makes their chips incompatible - their USB and AHCI will not work with anything we have.
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: Lars on April 30, 2018, 12:27:53 pm
The error message:

Detecting extended memory size ... using INT 15 EAX=E820 'SMAP'
  63 MB starting at 1 MB
Not enough memory

seems to imply that the SMAP call to determine amount of memory miserably fails. That may have more than one cause: either the BIOS implementation of that INT 15 call is broken or, more likely, there are more and more boards that have large "system memory gaps" in the lower 4 GB area that they then use for PCI address space (so they have plenty of addressing space for old PCI cards that can only address 32-bit addresses) instead of addressing system memory.
The assumption of these boards is that you are using a 64-bit operating system that can address memory beyond 4 GB without any problem. If it is the latter then you are sadly out of luck using OS/2.
I don't know if changing the processor on the very same board qualifies as changing the board in this respect. But I think that is possible.
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: ivan on April 30, 2018, 03:17:11 pm
Lars, you are correct about changing the processor being equivalent to changing the board in the case of the Ryzen processors because they carry AHCI and USB controllers built in.

The attached table is for the early Ryzen processors and support chipsets and shows the various combinations between support chipset and processor.
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: Lars on April 30, 2018, 07:11:54 pm
Maybe that also explains why AHCI won't work: if the AHCI controller should expect a 64-bit base address for its memory mapped register space then OS/2 won't work with it ...
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: Doug Bissett on April 30, 2018, 08:53:06 pm
This appears to be a known problem with the newest processors. No resolution in sight.
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: Lars on May 01, 2018, 12:37:01 pm
Are there any reports that the Ryzen CPU will no longer work with 32-bit versions of Windows ?

If yes, that is a strong indication that the built-in I/O components of the Ryzen CPU expect a 64-bit physical base address for their memory mapped registers. That means "good bye" to OS/2 (unfortunately, it does not mean "good buy" for OS/2 ...)
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: ivan on May 01, 2018, 02:03:27 pm
It appears that some people have installed 32-bit win XP on Ryzen systems with the only slight problem being the AHCI support.

Edit to add some info about the processors.
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: Lars on May 01, 2018, 10:23:57 pm
It appears that some people have installed 32-bit win XP on Ryzen systems with the only slight problem being the AHCI support.

Edit to add some info about the processors.

I had understood that there are people who are able to run 32-bit Win XP in some 32-bit emulation mode (just like you can run a 32-bit application under 64-bit Windows). But that goes on top of the base 64-bit operating system, doesn't it ?
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: Lars on May 01, 2018, 10:29:20 pm
It appears that some people have installed 32-bit win XP on Ryzen systems with the only slight problem being the AHCI support.

Edit to add some info about the processors.

I am confused. I also have a AMD FX-8350 eight core processor but it is not a Ryzen but rather follows the Vishera architecture (I seem to remember) and is already say 6 years old. Is AMD reusing their processor names ?
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: ivan on May 02, 2018, 01:14:58 am
Hi Lars,

I was told that they have XP running on a Ryzen 5 system as the only OS but that they had to patch a couple of drivers to do so.  I haven't seen it and the youngsters that did it did it for fun just to say they had.

The CoreInfo dump was sent to me by the guy I built a Ryzen system for so I hope it is the correct one - I have two Ryzen systems here but they are running Linux until I can, hopefully, get OS/2 running on them and I can't find a Coreinfo program for Linux or I would have done it myself.  I will be seeing the guy over the weekend and will make sure it is the correct coreinfo dump.

EDIT:

Changed a hard disk on my Ryzen 5 box, installed win 10 (yuck) and did a coreinfo dump - see below.
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: Martin Vieregg on May 04, 2018, 02:16:39 pm
If you try to install ArcaOS 5.0.2 on a Ryzen board, you have to
- install a PCIe USB 2.0 card, because there is no USB 2.0 controller onboard (only 3.0)
- in the pre install menu, use "modern hardware, safe mode".
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: Lars on May 04, 2018, 02:50:38 pm
... and, as far as I understand from what I have read so far, you cannot use AHCI or you will have to buy yourself an AHCI PCIe card where I don't know how you would tell OS2AHCI.ADD to skip the Ryzen built-in AHCI controller and instead use the controller of the plug-in card.

Or maybe use SATA ("IDE mode" in BIOS).

Looks like for an OS/2 user, the new Ryzen CPU is more of a hinderance than help. Additionally, Intel seems to go the same way for their new generation of CPUs/boards. I deduce this from the fact that the new Intel boards will only work with Windows >= 10 because you will need drivers specially adapted to the specific HW (say good bye to standards). There clearly is no interest/business case in providing these drivers for Windows 7 or 8.
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: ivan on May 04, 2018, 03:00:56 pm
Hi Martin,

Since you only have one PCIe slot on an ITX board and that is needed for the video card what you suggest is rather difficult, but there are come boards that have USB2 sockets if you plug in a USB header which takes care of the keyboard and trackball.

The main problem that I have discovered is the ASMedia SATA chip which our OS2AHCI driver does not support so that anything connected to those ports are not seen which makes installing rather difficult.  If you can get a board with the AMD SATA connected sockets then you stand a chance of installing.
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: Martin Vieregg on May 06, 2018, 11:19:02 pm
Meanwhile, I managed to install ArcaOS and it works really fine.

The only limitations I had with my AM4 board is:
- I need a USB Stick for ArcaOS 5.0.2 installation, DVD boot fails
- I have to select "modern hardware, safe mode" in the Pre-Instal menu, only 1 processor supported
- The problem discribed in this thread with the USB stick boot
- To install, you need a Bristol Ridge processor. Not only because of the USB stick problem with Ryzen G, also because you have to update your BIOS before installing the Ryzen G.

I have also installed Windows 10 32 bit, but I have problems since a BIOS update. The behaviour is the same with both processors. After the BIOS update, I cannot reinstal it (I get an early bluescreen aspi.sys error when booting from DVD), and on the installed Windows 10 32 bit installation, I cannot install AMD chipset/graphics drivers anymore and the start menu button is dead when clicking with the left mouse button. Right mouse button works. Searchfield is also dead.
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: ivan on May 07, 2018, 06:19:29 pm
What motherboard are you using, there are several out there and some of them are win 10 only with lots of complaints from those wanting to install Linux.

Another thing, you should have better results if you had installed win 10 64 bit.  I have used that on all the systems I have built for friends using MSI, ASRock, Biostar and Gigabyte boards.
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: Martin Vieregg on May 08, 2018, 09:39:37 pm
I have got an ASUS B350M-A. Besiedes the problems described, all drivers work fine (you have only to add a /A:1 parameter in the config.sys behind uniaud32.sys) to activate the second sound card)

VESA graphics is really very fast. In daily work, the number of only one processor is not a real problem and I hope the problem will be fixed in some month. I plan to post a step for step explanation later how to install several OS.
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: Martin Vieregg on May 08, 2018, 09:53:37 pm
The error message:

Detecting extended memory size ... using INT 15 EAX=E820 'SMAP'
  63 MB starting at 1 MB
Not enough memory

seems to imply that the SMAP call to determine amount of memory miserably fails. That may have more than one cause: either the BIOS implementation of that INT 15 call is broken or, more likely, there are more and more boards that have large "system memory gaps" in the lower 4 GB area that they then use for PCI address space (so they have plenty of addressing space for old PCI cards that can only address 32-bit addresses) instead of addressing system memory.

An important question is: Is only the error message not correct or is the available memory indeed not sufficient? If there is an error message, a "continue anyway?" query would be useful.

I remember old Win16 and early Win32 programs which query the disk size before installing and if the size is bigger than 2 or 4 GB, it says "you need at least 10 MB disk space, installation cancelled."
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: ivan on May 09, 2018, 12:38:40 am
Hi Martin,

I looked at that board but there was no way I could fit it into a mini ITX case  ;)

I could reconsider it but it would need all 4 of the SATA sockets working.  Do you know if they do or are two of them controlled by an ASMedia SATA chip and therefore useless under OS/2 - ArcaOS.
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: Martin Vieregg on May 12, 2018, 09:14:04 am
Quote
Do you know if they do or are two of them controlled by an ASMedia SATA chip and therefore useless under OS/2 - ArcaOS

I have two green USB connectors (a XHCI-controlled USB 2.0 emulation or something like that) where I can plug an USB keyboard which is already recognized in the BIOS, two blue (3.0) front and four USB 3.0 rear connectors. I cannot use anyone with ArcaOS.  The PCIe USB 2.0 card has got 6 USB connectors (Startech ebay used 30 EUR). All work fine with ArcaOS.

The SATA connectors do work. But I could not start the ArcaOS 5.0.2 DVD, even not after installing a separate PCIe SATA card. All other startable CD/DVD are working, most with the onboard connectors, and some (like dfsee) with the PCIe card connectors. Access to the DVD drives after installing ArcaOS gets no problem at all.

I bought a midclass board to omit running into your problems. I have got one big PCIe slot, two small ones, and 6 SATA connectors. 4 are used at the moment: SSD, HD, 2 DVD drives.
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: ivan on May 12, 2018, 10:54:57 am
Thanks for that information regarding the SATA connectors since I have a requirement for CD/DVD, HD and an eSATA socket. 

It looks as if I will have to make a small case since there is no way that board will fit into an ITX case like the SilverStone ML05 that I am using for builds at the moment.
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: Greg Pringle on May 12, 2018, 01:40:33 pm
I have installed an Asus HZ270M using a Startech PCIe USB 2.0 card and a X800 video card.
The Startech has a Via chip set so it works fine. It has Sata drives at 2TB for a few drives.

I also installed a Gigabyte GA-Z270-HD3 using a Startech PCI (it had one PCI slot) and a video card.
The problem with the Gigabyte is it only wants to recognize 1/2 TB of the Sata drive.
The Startech PCI is also a Via chip set. This install was the hardest.
Title: Re: ArcaOS 5.0.2 USB stick - MemDisk not enough memory
Post by: Martin Vieregg on May 14, 2018, 10:07:33 am
I have posted a ticket:
https://mantis.arcanoae.com/view.php?id=1894 (https://mantis.arcanoae.com/view.php?id=1894)