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Messages - Martin Iturbide

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1
General Discussion / Re: EDM/2 Wiki Issue
« on: Today at 02:15:37 am »
Hello

I tested the EDM/2 wiki with Firefox 45 and Dooble under ArcaOS and seems to be displaying fine. Adrian upgraded to the new default template of the wiki called Vector-2022 and it seems to work fine.

Comments are welcome, maybe on the future I will also move the OS2World wiki to that template, since it seems to be the new default.

Regards

2
Programming / Re: Brainstorm: OS/2 on a Different Kernel
« on: April 01, 2025, 04:44:07 pm »
Hello

I'm trying the NotbookLM AI to explain me some basic things.

Quote
**DOSCALLS1.DLL** is a **dynamic link library (DLL)** in OS/2 that appears to be a **core system component providing a wide range of kernel services and API entry points**.

Here's a breakdown of what the sources indicate about it:

*   **Central System DLL:** Almost all programs utilize **DOSCALLS1.DLL**, suggesting its fundamental role in the OS/2 environment.
*   **Initialization:** It seems to have **instance initialization routines**.
*   **API Entry Points:** **DOSCALL1** contains **16-bit entry points that correspond to various OS/2 APIs**. It also appears to handle **32-bit APIs**, with examples like `Dos32FreeMem`, `DosGetMessage`, and `DosPutMessage` having associated trace events within this DLL.
*   **Exception Handling:** The kernel calls the `Dos32R3ExceptionDispatcher` entry point within **DOSCALLS1.DLL** to **process all user exception handlers**.
*   **Kernel Service Indirection:** Many kernel APIs are **indirected through DOSCALL1.DLL**. This means that calls to certain kernel functions might go through this DLL.
*   **Thunking Layer:** **DOSCALLS1.DLL** includes **UniThunk** trace events, indicating it plays a role in **thunking between 16-bit and 32-bit code**.
*   **Traceability:** The System Tracepoints Reference provides a comprehensive source for deriving API-related breakpoints, often with entry point names prefixed with `pre` or `post`, which is applicable to functions within **DOSCALLS1.DLL**. Numerous trace events are defined for various functions within **DOSCALLS1**, allowing for detailed tracing of API calls.
*   **Relationship with other DLLs:** APIs from other DLLs, such as `QUECALLS.DLL` (queue management APIs), can be **indirected via DOSCALL1**.

In essence, **DOSCALLS1.DLL** serves as a crucial intermediary and provider of fundamental operating system services, handling API calls, managing exceptions, and facilitating communication within the OS/2 environment. Its central role is highlighted by its frequent use across applications and its involvement in various core system functionalities.

Which functions does the OS2KRNL provides that are used by DOSCALLS1.DLL?

Quote
Based on the sources, particularly the trace event information, **OS2KRNL provides a variety of kernel functions that are used by or whose calls are indirected through DOSCALLS1.DLL**. The trace logs in `sg244640.pdf` detail many API calls, specifying a major code for `OS2KRNL` (0x0005) and various minor codes corresponding to specific kernel functions. Many of these APIs have tracepoints that indicate they are indirectly accessed via `DOSCALL1`.

Here are some examples of functions provided by **OS2KRNL** that are relevant to **DOSCALLS1.DLL**, based on the trace events:

*   **Memory Management Functions**:
    *   `Dos32GiveSharedMem`
    *   `Dos32QueryMem`
*   **File System Related Functions**:
    *   `DosBufReset`
    *   `DosCallNmPipe`
    *   `DosDevIoctl`
    *   `DosDisConnectMmPipe`
    *   `DosOpen`
    *   `DosOpen2`
    *   `DosPhysicalDisk`
    *   `DosQNmPipeState`
    *   `DosSetMaxFH`
    *   `DosSetNmPHandState`
    *   `DosSetVec`
*   **Process and Thread Management**:
    *   `DosSystemService`
    *   `DosTimerAsync`
*   **Dynamic Linking and Loading**:
    *   `DosGetModHandle`
    *   `DosGetModName`
    *   `Dos32QueryProcAddr`
*   **Synchronization**:
    *   `DosSetSigHandler`
*   **Handle Management**:
    *   `Dos32IQUERYFHSTATE`
*   **Input/Output**:
    *   `Dos32IRead`
*   **Other**:
    *   `Dos32SetFileLocks`

The "Kernel API Tracepoints Indirected Via DOSCALL1" section further confirms this indirection, although it doesn't list the specific kernel functions themselves but rather the tracepoints associated with the pre-invocation of APIs that are indirected.

In summary, **DOSCALLS1.DLL acts as an intermediary for a significant number of OS/2 kernel functions provided by OS2KRNL**, handling the transition and enabling applications to access these core system services. The trace logs provide concrete examples of this interaction by showing how calls to various kernel functions (residing in **OS2KRNL**) are traced with pre-invocation events often associated with **DOSCALLS1**.

3
Programming / Re: Brainstorm: OS/2 on a Different Kernel
« on: April 01, 2025, 04:36:29 pm »
Hello

I'm reading this: Inside the OS/2 Kernel by David C. Zimmerli.
It is from the OS/2 2.11 kernel. It is kind of interesting to see how this author was able to see which files of the kernel source code belongs to which component. (of course he does not has the source code, only the file names). I wonder how he did that, and it makes sense to make the same analysis on the latest ArcaOS kernel.

I still want to try to understand the communication between CPI and OS2KRNL. Just to try to theorize what parts of the OS2KRNL needs to be mimic so DOSCALL1.DLL does not complain (or stop working) because it is on a different kernel.

Regards


4
General Discussion / Re: EDM/2 Wiki Issue
« on: March 31, 2025, 10:31:56 pm »
Hello

Adrian wrote me today with the good news that he had made some progress with the EDM/2 wiki hosted in Netlabs.

https://www.edm2.com

The Wiki is now updated and it is available, it is looking fine for the moment. It is read only until Adrian finds out how to connect it to the LDAP.

Just to let you know how bad it is the spam, the wiki was open for registration and it was hit very hard by spam. EDM/2 was only open for 4 hours and 20 spam account were created and started posting articles. I think I had blocked all and deleted the spam.

Regards

5
General Discussion / Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« on: March 31, 2025, 02:14:31 pm »
Hello Klafi
Dear all,
How about an OS/2 or ARCOS without Windows and DOS? Wouldn't that be easier?

Thanks everyone

I personally don't use the DOS VDM and Win-OS/2 as a vital thing of OS/2, but I was amazed to to see some years ago the quantity of people defending it because they run a DOS or Win16 software on it.

If you think that ArcaOS without DOS VDM and Win-OS/2 will make it easier because some patent or fee that is currently part of Microsoft, and will make ArcaOS cheaper, I don't think so. It looks to me that IBM has the right over the MS binaries included in OS/2 and there is no active money exchange anymore. I think of this because the IBM and Microsoft Jointly development agreement that I was able to read, it says that both parties has the right of the source code exchanged there.

I also don't think that DOS VDM and Win-OS/2 is the only limitation for IBM not to open source OS/2. There is also a lot of MS code in PM, Kernel, drivers and also code from third parties (Adobe). Even that I think that Microsoft won't be a problem when open sourcing OS/2, I think IBM does not want to take the risk without a good business case that provides them more benefits then trouble.

But I'm open to other opinion and ideas.

Regards

6
Hello Jack, welcome to the forum.

DavidR kept the discussion about this on the VirtualBox Forum, check it out:
- https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=113195

I asked also to test some OS/2 OVAs on the MacOS Host, and they told me those works fine. At the end it was told that possible the Apple hypervisor sometimes give this kind of errors, but VMWare was performing better, so it brings a lot of doubts.

DavidR, did you opened a ticket for it?

Regards

7
Internet / Re: otter-browser, Qt5 build
« on: March 30, 2025, 06:45:34 pm »
Hello Dave

Will it be ok if I upload Otter-Browser to Hobbes? I had repackaged it this way, with a little and very quick .txt file. What do you think?

Regards

8
Web applications / Re: OS2World URL Redirect
« on: March 29, 2025, 09:50:36 pm »
Hello Tom
Hello

Neil, today I talked to the webmaster and we have redirected the URLs.
Now if someones goes os2world.com  or www.os2world.com should get to the same site.

Can the same be done with EDM/2? I.e. edm2.com redirecting to www.edm2.com .

I will forward this request to Adrian (Netlabs). I don't have control over that server.

Also, just to let everybody know that I updated the EDM/2 wiki to the latest MediaWiki version in a local VM machine, and the updated database and files are now in the hands of Adrian. I hope he can get some time to put the EDM/2 files back in the server and connect the wiki to his LDAP.

Regards

9
General Discussion / Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« on: March 28, 2025, 01:51:48 pm »

I still think that we are falling behind in applications. A modern web browser will help on that, since there are a lot of applications that are on the web without the need to install those, and on the other side compiling and porting applications are now starting to get complicated because of the 32bits/Memory limitation.

A Modern Browser and solving the memory limitations are getting more important for new apps.

Regards

10
General Discussion / Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« on: March 28, 2025, 01:48:44 pm »
Hello

For the moment we have in no specific order:
1) Modern web browser
2) Wifi Driver.
3) Memory issues
4) IPv6.

And side discussion:
1) There is no need to worry because we have virtualization.
2) The dislike of RPM/YUM or FHS.

Regards

11
Hardware / Re: OpenWatcom Discussion
« on: March 28, 2025, 02:25:03 am »
Hello
As mentioned above, everyone will be confused now.

https://hobbesarchive.com/Home/Download?path=/Hobbes/pub/os2/dev/proglang/cpp/OpenWatcom_C_2-0-1.exe mentioned as Program Contact: David Azarewicz

Unfortunately we do not see who uploaded this. But as Steven mentioned above he and Gregg needed a repo we can only guess if David used these or any other source. I fear David uses his own different repo. But I don't know. We have to ask the unknown uploader or David
It is possible that I'm the uploader of that file, it has my file naming standard.
David has on his site (https://88watts.net/software.html) that file named "open-watcom-c-os2-2.0.1.exe" (18-Dec-2023), and this version is also referenced on "https://www.arcanoae.com/wiki/information-for-developers/"

Regards

12
Programming / Re: Brainstorm: OS/2 on a Different Kernel
« on: March 26, 2025, 05:47:36 pm »
The Presentation Manager would mean mapping PM windows to whatever Linux is using, X11 or Wayland. WPS might be the hardest to support.

How does PM connects to the OS/2 kernel currently? Because I would think that PM only goes through CPI to the kernel, and maybe some other DRIVER$, but the idea will be to make PM run through a different kernel and not necessary linking it to other GUI like X11 or Wayland yet. 

Regards

I don't really know but it has to connect to the video drivers to get access to the frame buffer to create the PM desktop and write/read the framebuffer. Doing things like seamless DOS/WinOS2 support must be tricky too and maybe kernel level.

On the very limited/little research I was able to do sometime ago, PMMERGE.DLL uses (or refers to) SINGLEQ$ and KBD$, so maybe SINGLEQ$ is also vital. But I got no reference to something related to video, maybe PMGPI.DLL has some connection to a DRIVER$ that I don't know.

Regards

13
General Discussion / Re: OS2World Site Update
« on: March 26, 2025, 01:42:09 pm »
Hello Remy

I think you found it.

Joomla let me create a "child" of the template that overrides the father, so I quickly put your template.css (I can also revert it very fast if there is some problem) and I think it worked. You are a genius :)
It works fine on Dooble Qt5, but not our old Firefox. But it is very good, it is a step forward.

Everybody, please test the site further, visit the pages and let me know.

Regards

14
Programming / Re: Brainstorm: OS/2 on a Different Kernel
« on: March 26, 2025, 01:10:19 pm »
The Presentation Manager would mean mapping PM windows to whatever Linux is using, X11 or Wayland. WPS might be the hardest to support.

How does PM connects to the OS/2 kernel currently? Because I would think that PM only goes through CPI to the kernel, and maybe some other DRIVER$, but the idea will be to make PM run through a different kernel and not necessary linking it to other GUI like X11 or Wayland yet. 

Regards

15
Programming / Brainstorm: OS/2 on a Different Kernel
« on: March 25, 2025, 11:32:20 pm »
Hello

I was wondering what would be required to run OS/2 over a different kernel.

Let’s theorize, what if we want to have PC that boots Linux, gets to the command line and run something like “startwarp” and the full OS/2 desktop will boot. (Command line, PM, SOM, WPS) and you can run your OS/2 applications there. (Not the 100% of OS/2 applications, but at least start with some)

What would be required to make the OS/2 binaries believe they are running over the OS/2 kernel to run interpretated and not emulating a x86 machine.

From my limited knowledge point of view will be required:

1.- OS2KRNL: The OS/2 kernel has everything that you need on an OS kernel to talk to the hardware, but those will not be necessary since the Linux kernel already does this with the hardware. What would be needed is a layer with all the functions that OS2KRNL provides to DOSCALL1.DLL …. I guess.
As far was a I know OS2KRNL provides a lot of DosXXXX functions to DOSCALL1.DLL. I’m guessing all of this needs to be cloned over Linux (maybe with libc/gcc) to make believe DOSCALL1.DLL that is talking to the kernel.

But I think I’m only talking about the API here, what about the memory management? Where it should go?

Does it make sense?

2.- MOUSE$, KBD$, SCREEN$, CLOCK$. As far as I know this are called “Character Device Drivers”. These are drivers that DOSCALL1.DLL and CPI uses. Here I don’t have the details on how these talks to the CPI. Some layer (DRIVER$ to Linux) to mimic the responses of these driver will be required.

There are a lot more for specific driver like USB, LTP, etc. are also required for software that communicates to hardware, but it had to start with the basic ones to first have a full OS/2 desktop and later improve it with better compatibility.

What would be the vital Character Device Drivers to start with?

Where can I found more information on how CLOCK$ (or any other interacts) with CPI or with any other software that requires it?

3.- Binary compatibility. I don’t know if its completely required that Linux has the “Linear Executable” layer like it was done on the 2ine project. But I think I’m missing this part. I guess that the OS2KRNL provides the instruction to let know that an ,exe file is a “Linear Executable” file, right? Where should that go if we are running a OS2KRNL faked in Linux?

Yes, I know that this theorical version of OS/2 will not be 100% compatible with all software, specially with the software that interacts with hardware. All device driver for OS/2 will be useless, and some new technique will need to be created to grab the Linux drivers and show it on the OS/2 environment (Ex: Linux Audio to UNIAUD1$ bridge). 16 bits may be broken and maybe not required today, VDM will be broken and there will be not full API compatibility first. A proof concept will have an awful compatibility first but it has the potential to grow if it’s open source and if people believe in this kind of long-term strategy.

This will not be easy, because it requires developers with OS/2 and Linux development knowledge to obtain at least a minimum of compatibility to make it usable.

Beside these three components that I theorize, what other thing will be missing to run an OS/2 desktop interpreted in Linux? What do you think? Please correct me where my interpretations of the OS/2 architecture are wrong.

Regards

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