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WebSite Information => Comments, Suggestions & Questions => Topic started by: Martin Iturbide on May 14, 2021, 05:38:59 pm

Title: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 14, 2021, 05:38:59 pm
Hi

I still have the "itchiness" to reorganize some files in hobbes, and even also some other places like OS2site.
But I hold back, some people may not like reorganizing and renaming of the files, some other may tell me "do not bother on that", and it is also a huge task.

Also there have been no reply from the hobbes administrator on my offer to help and have a quicker access to modify file descriptions of the database and been able to move files to the corresponding directory.

And also, it is big job to try organize all the OS/2 software available. From one side I think it is good to keep all the versions of the software, but from the other side I understand that some sites (like hobbes) should only have the latest version (with the exception of drivers). Times has change and storage space is not problem for OS/2 programs like it was on the past. (like my crazy OHFOWG (https://archive.org/download/OHFOWG) and the OS2World Github (7GB) )

My concern with OS/2 preservation had been growing when I saw how old software disappears from the internet (some can not be found even on the waybackmachine). I don't want to delete anything. I hopefully will like to backup the old things with the old names in different archive.org items and later focus in the working apps, latest versions and renaming and moving the files.

What do you think?

- Should I try to make my own public file repository? If I try that I will need help, I don't want more server administration with that.
- Should I keep trying to improve hobbes order in this slow way of uploading files with .txt template file?
- Should I take care that "itchiness" with some other thing and forget this thing?

Ian, (he runs the os2site), your opinion is important for me. 

I also want to do something collaborative with the help of several people since it is a big task.

Regards

Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on May 14, 2021, 06:57:22 pm
About Hobbes: The long description is not correctly displayed in the current HTML interface. It's correct when being downloaded as file per FTP. Second, upload requires passive FTP and active FTP is not rejected. It would just create 0 B files.

The uploader decides himself which prior versions are deleted on archiving (moving it to the destination) by the 'Replaces' entry.

(I always keep main versions and for others I delete the prior ones. One reason is that I want to ensure that people always use the newest version. If something important doesn't work, I'll upload a new version as soon as possible. Another one is to keep the repository clean. The full list of official versions can be accessed on netlabs.org, where I have have more options with the web page to direct people to the latest version.)

Ian seems to keep old versions on his site (where he mirrors Hobbes plus gathers files from other sources, also those that wouldn't be available elsewhere).

I don't like the Hobbes situation either. It's just too unsafe to rely on a single server. I'm glad that Ian's server exists and am not sure if we need another mirror.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 14, 2021, 09:56:39 pm
I don't like the Hobbes situation either. It's just to unsafe to rely on a single server. I'm glad that Ian's server exists and am not sure if we need another mirror.

I agree on not rely on a single server. I encourage to backup everything on the Internet Archive just in case.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on May 15, 2021, 03:20:27 am
Martin, I would welcome an alternate archive of OS/2 programs. I think it's an interesting bit of history. A well laid out archive would be a legacy of a legacy operating system. I think you are a good person to do it because you have studied archiving OS/2 material for years.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 16, 2021, 07:30:36 pm
Hi

Just in case, this weekend, I will take a full backup of hobbes and put it on Archive.org just to leave it archived. I guess nobody will get mad for it.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Mentore on May 17, 2021, 08:21:49 am
Hi

Just in case, this weekend, I will take a full backup of hobbes and put it on Archive.org just to leave it archived. I guess nobody will get mad for it.

Regards

I don't think there will be problems with this. I also second your idea of an alternate "main" repo for OS/2 software.

Mentore
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 17, 2021, 04:58:25 pm
Hi

As a first step, I had uploaded an old Hobbes 2020-02 backup I have on Archive.org.
https://archive.org/download/hobbes-archive-2020-02 (https://archive.org/download/hobbes-archive-2020-02)

I will upload an 2021-05 backup too.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on May 18, 2021, 03:57:47 pm
Something looks wrong with the file dates. They are all 17-May-2021
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 18, 2021, 05:16:37 pm
Something looks wrong with the file dates. They are all 17-May-2021
Hi

Seems to be the upload date from my machine to archive.org. I think there is no way to preserve the original dates of the files when you upload a file there.

Also, yesterday night, I also uploaded a 2021-05 backup of hobbes I made with HTTPTrack.
- https://archive.org/download/hobbes-archive-2021-05/hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/ (https://archive.org/download/hobbes-archive-2021-05/hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/)

With this, I expect,  people will have access to the backup in case we decided to delete some old software versions in hobbes. I still need to think more about it and discuss it.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Ian Manners on May 19, 2021, 10:51:52 am
Hi Martin,

Apologies about the late reply, been busy, and will be for the next couple of weeks.

Archiving is like religion..
As long as you have the files you need I do not think there is a right, or a wrong way, and everyone has an opinion of what you are doing wrong :o)

I still update my hobbes mirror whenever the incoming directory file count goes down but this is not currently reflected on www.os2site.com as it
is no longer an OS/2 based server, so none of my scripts etc run. I had a look at stunnel/rsync/ftp but have not been successful in getting any combination to
work with updating www.os2site.com from my home based OS/2 server. It is on my to do list so will be looking at it again in a month or so.

My hobbes mirror also does not remove files, it's not an rsync type mirror but a plain FTP mirror of hobbes.

On www.os2site.com itself, over time I'm been creating /old directories where older versions of files are moved.
I do this as occasionally a file is uploaded to hobbes that has an incorrect "Replaces:" field, and if its not caught then that file is removed or deleted. Not a good way to maintain an archive, and its a pain to retrieve a file from an older backup, if I recognised what has happened.
Some people have requested that I not keep older versions of their software on os2site.com, in that case the older versions are moved to a non public area on the server. One person asked that all their software be removed from public view, this I did.

I have also created a http://www.os2site.com/sw/martin directory where all of your uploads are moved to, that keeps the original files intact but creates a parallel archive of your cleaned up files, doing otherwise was getting a bit messy :)  The /sw/martin/ directory on my home server is far more populated that the publicly available www.os2site.com version.

The main thing is that YOU are happy with what you are doing :)
And don't let it take over your life.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: ivan on May 19, 2021, 01:21:37 pm
Hi Martin,

Looking at Hobbes incoming, it appears the first thing should be the opening of a new subsection of the archive called something like 'ancient software' that could have subsections of 'drivers', 'utilities' and so on.  My reasoning for that is someone new to OS/2 will not be deluded into thinking the old drivers will work on new hardware and conversely, someone with very old hardware would have a better hope of finding things that will work.

Your idea of creating a total backup of the OS/2 section is excelent but it should be ready to take over at a moments notice should the NMSU authorities decide to close that section down.

All of us should be very thankful that the University has kept the OS/2 section going but we shouldn't expect them to keep it up for ever.   
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Lars on May 19, 2021, 03:34:28 pm
I agree with what Ivan says: outdated drivers should go into an "archived" subpart. If a driver is updated, there usually are very good reasons why that happens. An old driver archive is only valuable if there is either additional info or source code in it (which almost never happens).
Right now, I can see in Hobbes an old patch for USBMSD.ADD from Yuri Dario to make USBMSD.ADD work with an olympus digital camera (USBMSD_patch_2002-08-09.zip). But the patches only work for very old versions of USBMSD.ADD and with some likelyness, this error has been fixed with newer versions of USBMSD.ADD.
What's more, this patch set has been uploaded to OS2SITE with a different name (usbmsd13b.zip), just adding to the confusion.
A new user would likely try to desperately downgrade his version of USBMSD.ADD so the patch can be applied, and along with it, break everything else.

It's a perfect way to drive away new users.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Ian Manners on May 19, 2021, 04:44:29 pm
Hi Lars,

Quote
But the patches only work for very old versions of USBMSD.ADD and with some likelyness, this error has been fixed with newer versions of USBMSD.ADD.

This was back in the day when Olympus had propriety USB drivers, they fixed the problem by allowing access to cameras as if they were USB drivers/keys.
That update is only required if someone is using very early model Olympus cameras from around 20 years ago.

In saying that, thanks for the info, I have moved that file to the usb/old directory on 'my' os2site.com and updated the descriptions. Hopefully that will be pushed out to the public www.os2site.com when I have replication sorted.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Lars on May 19, 2021, 06:21:25 pm
Hi Lars,

Quote
But the patches only work for very old versions of USBMSD.ADD and with some likelyness, this error has been fixed with newer versions of USBMSD.ADD.

This was back in the day when Olympus had propriety USB drivers, they fixed the problem by allowing access to cameras as if they were USB drivers/keys.
That update is only required if someone is using very early model Olympus cameras from around 20 years ago.

In saying that, thanks for the info, I have moved that file to the usb/old directory on 'my' os2site.com and updated the descriptions. Hopefully that will be pushed out to the public www.os2site.com when I have replication sorted.

Was that the problem with the incorrect signature of USBU instead of USBS in the status block?
I have a USB filter driver (it's rather the driver from EXIGEN to show the filter concept) that fixes that on the fly. Without any need to change USBMSD.ADD. That filter driver is in my USB repo. I never released it but I could.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 19, 2021, 07:17:42 pm
Hi

Reading the comments, I'm leaning to the idea of the two repositories.

One repository that stores everything, like new and old versions of drivers and software. Why? Because there are people that want to experiment with old hardware and old OS/2 versions, and require an specific old driver or software, that may not be supported for old OS/2 versions (or hardware).

The second repository, that may be hobbes, where we only store the latest versions and newer release of software, and possible only the software that works/runs with Warp 4.52, eCS and ArcaOS.

But this is just an early idea. I still do not get any feedback from the hobbes administrator to see if we can go forward with the idea.

TOOLS?
I'm also looking for ideas on which web script or tool may be good to create a web site like hobbes or os2site, that may be very simple. It had been hard to find something like that on the web, it seems that on these days, the internet does not want to share files...we are on the era of blogs, pictures, videos, articles, but not files :)

I wish there could be something simple like an ftp where you put the "xyz.zip" file with a "xyz.xml" with the info, and that web page (web script) renders the xml to show the link and the description as a web page like hobbes.
I also like how Alfresco looks for sharing files, but it is an open source "Enterprise Content Management" tool that is not easy to use.

Ian, how easy or hard to use is the script you use at OS2Site (FilePage?) ? Is it something that you created customized for your use? or it is something public?

For the moment I will continue with the drivers, and some other tools on hobbes, but it is very slowly since I don't have any special access to improve the site.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Ian Manners on May 20, 2021, 06:40:28 pm
Hi Lars,

Quote
Was that the problem with the incorrect signature of USBU instead of USBS in the status block?
I have a USB filter driver (it's rather the driver from EXIGEN to show the filter concept) that fixes that on the fly. Without any need to change USBMSD.ADD. That filter driver is in my USB repo. I never released it but I could.

Not sure, I assumed (probably wrongly) that Olympus did what Canon did and that required a special driver to access the cameras storage. Looking at the patch, which I cant remember if I did back then, looks like its was an incorrect signature though I think Olympus did that on purpose. I had an Oly camera back then that required that patch but as soon as the E series came out, upgraded to get rid of both the camera, and the patched USB driver.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Ian Manners on May 20, 2021, 06:58:04 pm
Hi Martin,

Keep in mind that NMSU probably do not want to change to much, it is for student's to do a final test of code on, it needs to be a stable server for at least that semester, a server that has known variables that have been documented for the students to use in writing code to test for their semester marks, radically changing it would very likely mean rewriting course manuals, and that can involve the exams department, legal, and other University departments. It can be a right royal pain for whoever is charged with looking after the archive, like Curtis, who also has other duties.

Quote
Ian, how easy or hard to use is the script you use at OS2Site (FilePage?) ? Is it something that you created customized for your use? or it is something public?

Filepage is written in C, I have the code but as parts are written by someone else, and other parts are written by persons unknown, I can only release the code I have written and changed which looks a bit weird without the rest...

Latest version of Filepage is available at http://www.os2site.com/sw/internet/util/  (http://www.os2site.com/sw/internet/util/) and is currently filepage401.zip.
All the file descriptions are simply listed in a text file called descriptions, and the entire site is setup using one config file, the archive file contains an example.

After this month is finished at my University, I will be happy to go over how it works, and even change the code and recompile if that is needed to create something that you are after but it has been designed to be highly configurable, down to colors, column names etc. I don't think it would be hard to add the description for a file in a listing from a file with the same name but a different extension such as .xml, I simply find it easier to put all the descriptions into one text file. The page headers/banners and footers are located in separate files. Filepage is simple, and very fast at creating index.html files, the exe is currently OS/2 only but it should also be easy enough to port to anything that uses C.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 28, 2021, 04:14:17 pm
Hi Ian
Keep in mind that NMSU probably do not want to change to much, it is for student's to do a final test of code on, it needs to be a stable server for at least that semester, a server that has known variables that have been documented for the students to use in writing code to test for their semester marks, radically changing it would very likely mean rewriting course manuals, and that can involve the exams department, legal, and other University departments. It can be a right royal pain for whoever is charged with looking after the archive, like Curtis, who also has other duties.
I don't know about it, maybe you have more information. Is the hobbes server also used for student practice? I haven't see any change in hobbes for some time. I don't know if the server is supposed to provide any service to the students while it also offer hobbes (OS/2 files) to the world.

I had sent again an email to Curtis and see if I can get more privileges to work to improve hobbes, like processing incoming directory, relocating files, improving file names, short and long descriptions, and possible removing old versions releases of software.

As an idea, maybe we can work on OS2Site, to create an alternative file path location on the ftp when we can reorganize "ALL PUBLIC" OS/2 related files and turn it into the  "FULL Repository" with all versions of the software we can get.  Maybe I can work on the "/MARTIN/" to start drafting the idea, if you agreed to give me full access to it. ftp?

Regards

Note: I had corrected the "ALL" to "ALL PUBLIC" trying to find out what freaked some people for something that does not even exist yet.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 28, 2021, 08:45:07 pm
Note: I removed Doug, Lars and my rant since I'm the OS2World moderator and I didn't want to fall into the game.

I will discuss how to reorganize and preserve OS/2 files in hobbes or any other site. It is a non-profit effort for the community and it will fall under the US Copyright Law 107 (Fair Use) (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/107).

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 29, 2021, 03:00:48 pm
Hi

I'm trying to understand the difference between:
- /pub/os2/apps/wps (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fapps%2Fwps) - Workplace Shell related applications
and
- /pub/os2/util/wps (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Futil%2Fwps) - WorkPlace Shell/Presentation Manager utilities.

I'm not sure where should "desktop enhancement" software should be located, under "util" or "apps" ?

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Lars on May 29, 2021, 03:32:10 pm
Under UTILS. An APP is something standalone, serving a main purpose. A util is something that supports the user in interfacing with his computer.
But of course, that will always be arguable.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 29, 2021, 03:52:49 pm
Under UTILS. An APP is something standalone, serving a main purpose. A util is something that supports the user in interfacing with his computer.
But of course, that will always be arguable.
Yes, it is arguable, and I agree "desktop enhancements" should be under UTILS.
..but if
- XWP and XFolder should be consider WPS Utilities (under /pub/os2/util/wps).
- And there is already a structure for each kind of app.  For example, a WPS Calendar is a wps app (/apps/wps)  but there is also "/apps/calendar" which seems the correct place.
It will make "/pub/os2/apps/wps (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fapps%2Fwps)" empty.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Ian Manners on May 31, 2021, 11:57:04 am
Hi Martin,

Quote
I don't know about it, maybe you have more information. Is the hobbes server also used for student practice? I haven't see any change in hobbes for some time. I don't know if the server is supposed to provide any service to the students while it also offer hobbes (OS/2 files) to the world.

Going on what I know about Computer Science at University of Western Australia, the files are likely to be archived and moved from incoming at or towards the end of a semester as students present their finished code to be tested on the server. If it does not work as planned, then I would hope its restored from backup. I have not asked Curtis about any of this, its simply an assumption going on what I know of university group and individual assignments at several universities I've been acquainted with over the years.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Lars on May 31, 2021, 01:03:07 pm
Under UTILS. An APP is something standalone, serving a main purpose. A util is something that supports the user in interfacing with his computer.
But of course, that will always be arguable.
Yes, it is arguable, and I agree "desktop enhancements" should be under UTILS.
..but if
- XWP and XFolder should be consider WPS Utilities (under /pub/os2/util/wps).
- And there is already a structure for each kind of app.  For example, a WPS Calendar is a wps app (/apps/wps)  but there is also "/apps/calendar" which seems the correct place.
It will make "/pub/os2/apps/wps (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fapps%2Fwps)" empty.

Regards

That goes beyond what you have been asking for.
I would refrain from moving things that already exist at their final place. Someone might have a link on some of that.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 11, 2021, 03:55:30 pm
Hi

Here goes another one.

I want to upload Uniaud-20210320.exe to hobbes. Should I replace all other older Uniaud versions available there. (like 22 versions of Uniaud) ??

It will not mean that all other older Uniaud version will be gone from earth, we have backups on netlabs, os2site and Internet Archive. It will be towards the idea that Hobbes should only have the latest version of software.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on June 12, 2021, 04:30:50 am
Seems to me that the ideal would be to leave the major releases, if that can be figured out.
Trimming down to the latest, while often a good idea, sometimes leads to replacing a good version with a not so good version. In the case of Uniaud, I've often heard of systems that need an older version.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on June 12, 2021, 02:23:42 pm
Yes, I agree with Dave.

Plus: The programmer is the one who knows best which version should be kept.

The question seems to be a bit theoretical since more and more ancient drivers are uploaded. Even when someone prefers the original SPEA-V7 driver, I don't guess what's the benefit of keeping the older 2.02 release.

If they would be moved to a separate dir, I won't complain. But how about an older Uniaud driver then?
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Lars on June 12, 2021, 03:08:30 pm
It's not zero or one. You can keep say the last 3 driver versions or so. But it would be helpful to clearly separate the very latest from the rest. The intention is: make a new user take the latest version. Only if that fails, should he delve into it more deeply and try an older version.

Maybe an archive directory with the very same sublayout as the existing main dir would help. Whenever something is superseded by newer stuff, then move the existing stuff to the same subdir in that archive directory.

I myself keep older versions of my USB drivers only for a limited time. But since I properly tagged my source files, I would be able to recreate exactly one specific version (for example, to recreate an error case).
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 13, 2021, 12:54:36 am
Hi

These are the Uniaud version on hobbes.

Quote
Uniaud-20181126.exe   Uniaud Installer 2018-11-26
Uniaud-Installer-195-213.zip   UniAud Audio Driver Beta Installer (2010-04-20)
UniAud-Installer_1-0-9_20060325.zip   UniAud 1.0.9 Installer (2006-03-25)
UniAud-Installer_1-0-9_20060829.zip   UniAud 1.0.9 Installer (2006-08-29)
UniAud-Installer_1-0-9_20060830.zip   UniAud 1.0.9 Installer (2006-08-30)
Uniaud-Update-195-213.zip   UniAud Audio Driver Beta Update (2010-04-20)
Uniaud32_1-9-5_2008-07-16.zip   Uniaud32 v1.9.5 based on ALSA level 1.0.17 - 2008-07-16 - SVN revision 358
UniAud32_Resync_1-0-1.zip   UniAud32 Resync Driver 1.0.1 (2008/01/26)
UniAud_1-0-4b_20030425.zip   UniAud 1.0.4b Driver (2003-04-25)
UniAud_1-0-4_20021009.zip   UniAud 1.0.4 Driver (2002-10-09)
UniAud_1-0-4_20021031.zip   UniAud 1.0.4 Driver (2002-10-31)
UniAud_1-0-9_20050802.zip   UniAud 1.0.9 Driver (2005-08-02)
UniAud_1-1-2_2004-12-29.zip   Uniaud 1.1.2 (2004-12-29)
UniAud_1-1-4-RC4.zip   UniAud 1.1.4 RC4 Driver (2007/11/20)
UniAud_1-1-4-RC5_20080218.zip   UniAud 1.1.4 RC5 Driver (2008-02-18)
UniAud_1-1-4-RC6.zip   UniAud 1.1.4 RC6 Driver (2008/04/02)
UniAud_1-1-4-RC7.ZIP   UniAud 1.1.4 RC7 Driver (2008/11/22)
Uniaud_2-2-6_2020-05-06.exe   
UniAud_debug_1-1-4-RC4.zip   UniAud 1.1.4 RC4 Driver Debug Version (2007/11/20)
UniAud_debug_1-1-4-RC5.zip   UniAud 1.1.4 RC5 Driver Debug Version (2008/02/22)
UniAud_debug_1-1-4-RC6.zip   UniAud 1.1.4 RC6 Driver Debug Version (2008/04/04)
UniAud_debug_1-1-4-RC7.zip

Which ones should we keep in addition of the latest " Uniaud-20210320.exe" ?

My bet would be.

Quote
- Uniaud-20210320.exe                               Uniaud 3.01.01
- Uniaud_2-2-6_2020-05-06.exe   
- UniAud_1-1-2_2004-12-29.zip               Uniaud 1.1.2 (2004-12-29)
- UniAud-Installer_1-0-9_20060830.zip       UniAud 1.0.9 Installer (2006-08-30)
- UniAud_1-0-4_20021031.zip               UniAud 1.0.4 Driver (2002-10-31)

Trying to be the latest of each version, but I would also have to check the Netlabs ftp to be sure about it.
Any other bets?

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on June 13, 2021, 01:04:56 am
That looks like a pretty good compromise as long as they're also archived somewhere else.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Roderick Klein on June 13, 2021, 01:11:38 am
In this case why keep such old antique versions of Uniaud ? For other drivers I can imagen you keep them.
It a long time ago but I think it was in 2014 or 2015 David Azarewicz made some pretty import fixes.
One of them was in the audio buffer management of UNIAUD16.SYS. But its to long ago, going by what I remember.
All Uniaud builds support the all of the older hardware as well.  So why distribute old stuff that can pontially crash a users computer ?
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 13, 2021, 03:26:38 am
Hi.
In this case why keep such old antique versions of Uniaud ? For other drivers I can imagen you keep them.
....So why distribute old stuff that can pontially crash a users computer ?

...The question seems to be a bit theoretical since more and more ancient drivers are uploaded. Even when someone prefers the original SPEA-V7 driver, I don't guess what's the benefit of keeping the older 2.02 release.

I will like to repeat again the rationale for keeping old drivers.

The OS/2 community is not only composed by people that want to run OS/2 and ArcaOS on the latest and better hardware. Recently there had been a lot of hobbyist that are running older OS/2 on old hardware with old cards and old peripherals. Even from time to time an industrial user of OS/2 shows up that need old driver for older OS/2 for their machines. Keeping old drivers allow them to use OS/2 the way the like and need.  Remember that sometimes newer drivers (of the same device and developer) remove the OS/2 2.x or Warp 3 support in favor of the latest OS/2, so it is important to preserve every version of OS/2 drivers for people not using the latest OS/2 version.

If someone points me to a driver that can be dangerous (like bad file system driver that can wipe all the hard drive), I will request to be removed from hobbes and preserve it somewhere else with the proper warnings to the end user.

When I upload an old driver to hobbes, I try to put on the short description the name, the version and the date. I name it similar as  the latest one but with lower version (or earlier date) so the user can easily identify and try the latest first, and later download the older one if he needs it.

What the discussion should be, is if these old drivers should be kept on Hobbes or not.
The discussion started with UniAud and the suggestions are:
1) Only keep the latest one.
2) Keep the main releases of Uniaud, not the development or preview releases.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: OS4User on June 13, 2021, 09:57:12 am
1) Only keep the latest one.
2) Keep the main releases of Uniaud, not the development or preview releases.

keep all development or preview releases in archive sub dir

rumors said  that early builds of uniaud  supported multi channel sound  on some hardware. current uniaud has lost this ability  -  so old builds  may help to find out when this ability went away.

Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 13, 2021, 02:32:46 pm
Hi
rumors said  that early builds of uniaud  supported multi channel sound  on some hardware.
If it can be possible I would like to confirm or deny that rumor.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 13, 2021, 02:35:21 pm

Hi
rumors said  that early builds of uniaud  supported multi channel sound  on some hardware.
If it can be possible I would like to confirm or deny that rumor.

keep all development or preview releases in archive sub dir
I'm not sure that will be look so good on hobbes. I'm still contemplating the idea to have two repositories, one with the full archive with all versions of drivers and software (maybe at OS2Site, and an extra public backup), and just retain the latest on hobbes.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: ivan on June 13, 2021, 05:47:35 pm
Hi Martin,

I get the impression that you are your own worst enemy regarding Hobbes. (I am assuming it is you that is adding all the ancient drivers/programs for which there is no hardware).

With all the old junk cluttering up incoming it is almost impossible to see any new input unless one is looking for a specific item.  Unfortunately, I can't see a simple way round the problem unless you can talk NMSU and the person that looks after the OS/2 section to create a 'incoming\archive' section where all the old drivers/programs can be posted to, so leaving 'incoming' clear for new material.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 13, 2021, 06:22:01 pm
I get the impression that you are your own worst enemy regarding Hobbes. (I am assuming it is you that is adding all the ancient drivers/programs for which there is no hardware).
Indeed. I don't have any special access to hobbes. If you want to organize/fix/move/add descriptions/etc you need to go to the upload to incoming process. But wait, I'm uploading ancient drivers, but mostly there are the same drivers that are already there, that I'm just reorganizing, adding the version number and date.

It may be an issue for people who search the incoming folder to check for software updates, which I guess it is not what the incoming folder is intended for.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 13, 2021, 06:26:07 pm
Let's recapitulate.

What should be done with UniAud on hobbes? the suggestions are:
1) Only keep the latest one. (Have a different repository, os2site, netlabs, archive.org for the older versions)
2) Keep the main releases of Uniaud, not the development or preview releases.
3) Keep older released on a different directory. Maybe like /old like OS2Site has.

I'm still leaning for #1, since there are people that think that hobbes should be for the "Modern OS/2 User" and some other site should have all the "Legacy Driver".

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Ibrahim Hakeem on June 14, 2021, 02:27:31 am
Option 2 would probably be the best choice. If you are interested in having a mirror of Hobbes oriented to the modern OS/2 user, it's important to acknowledge that the latest UniAud is not always a one-size-fits-all solution and that certain systems need a specific release in order to have working audio at all. By that definition, it can't be considered legacy if it is a core component for, by our use-case, a modern platform.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 16, 2021, 03:23:17 pm
Hi

About Uniaud, I will keep thinking about it for some days.

For the moment I'm reorganizing and relocating the easy stuff that is obliviously located on the wrong place, like just over "/pub/os2/apps",  "/pub/os2/util" and "/pub/os2/games".

Where should I put pdfmerge (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?search=pdfmerge)? I'm not sure if it goes to "/pub/os2/apps/wp"

Also PMPrintf (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?search=PMPrintf&stype=any&sort=type_name&dir=%2F) seems to be a different versions in different locations. I guess the right place is "/pub/os2/dev/util".

Remember that there is a backup of hobbes (2021-05) on a couple locations.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andi B. on June 16, 2021, 03:30:18 pm
...
Also PMPrintf (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?search=PMPrintf&stype=any&sort=type_name&dir=%2F) seems to be a different versions in different locations. I guess the right place is "/pub/os2/dev/util".
...
Yes. And this was always the desired directory. (
Code: [Select]
"Proposed directory  /pub/os2/dev/util"). No clue why it ended up in wrong places.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Harald Kamm on June 16, 2021, 09:42:59 pm
Sorry to interfere in the debate. I appreciate the idea to create and serve an OS/2 file archive. But what I really don't understand is why Hobbes is flooded with outdated files the had been deleted at the time creating much confusion.

Best, Harald
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Roderick Klein on June 16, 2021, 11:45:42 pm
1) Only keep the latest one.
2) Keep the main releases of Uniaud, not the development or preview releases.

keep all development or preview releases in archive sub dir

rumors said  that early builds of uniaud  supported multi channel sound  on some hardware. current uniaud has lost this ability  -  so old builds  may help to find out when this ability went away.

Best I can tell the only driver (on which UNIAUD is based) is the SB live driver that supported multi channel support.
The minstall setup for UNIAUD has always been for single channel best I tell.
You need to setup MMOS2 and tell it how many streams an audio device supports. Can anybody confirm this ? Or have I got this wrong.

The point with MMOS2 is that all hardware that is supported in the old versions is supported in the the latest version of UNIAUD.
And all UNIAUD versions will require Warp 4 + Fixpak 13 and higher. Has a 32 bit driver.

Roderick
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 17, 2021, 03:27:44 am
Sorry to interfere in the debate. I appreciate the idea to create and serve an OS/2 file archive. But what I really don't understand is why Hobbes is flooded with outdated files the had been deleted at the time creating much confusion.

Hi Harald.

To move, rename, or improve descriptions of the hobbes files, you need to upload them to the incoming directory. For the moment I haven't get any other way to improve hobbes directly from other place.

"flooded with outdated files the had been deleted at the time", what do you mean? please specify the file.
If it is about old drivers, I already explain it in past posts (and the latest drivers I uploaded are the same that were already at hobbes with an improved name and description). If it is about software, I'm reorganizing some file and re-uploading the last version of  software that is already there, usually to move it to the right directory.

Also, for people checking the incoming directory, check also the .txt file where I put the release date of the file.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 17, 2021, 08:00:54 pm
Where should I put pdfmerge (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?search=pdfmerge)? I'm not sure if it goes to "/pub/os2/apps/wp"
Maybe it should go on "/pub/os2/apps/wp/convert"
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 03, 2021, 06:45:32 pm
Hi

I had been trying for the last couple of months to reorganize some OS/2 files on hobbes.
The reasons and motivations (with the discussion) can be find on this thread.

I had been slowly doing some progress, and it is going to take a long time.

The premises are:
- A full hobbes backup is already at archive.org and OS2Site. (Before the changes)
- In the case of applications (not drivers), I'm only leaving on hobbes the latest version. Older versions are in the backups and hopefully in the future it may be organized somewhere else like OS2site. It will be like having one repository for the latest files version (hobbes) and other one with everything (old and new) (OS2Site and Archive.org).
- I'm trying to identify the version number and date of each application to include it clearly on the short description so users will know how old is the software at first hand.
- I'm also changing the file names, to try to include a better naming for the files. Ex: There were files like "os2.zip" or "warp.zip" that sometimes don't tell you what it is.

- I'm sorry, but the process is slow, I have to go file by file and create the .txt file for it. And I need to use the incoming directory to update hobbes, I have no other way as far as I know. I'm sorry to put so many files on that directory, specially for the people like to always check on it for newer software releases.

- For the moment I'm focusing on "/apps", "/utils" and "/multimedia". I will not look into /info and /dev yet.

- Don't get angry and start calling me names if you don't like that some file is is not named or located in where you want. Let's discuss the rationale of that and see if we can get some agreement.

- If there is any older version of a software that I removed and it will be very important to maintain, please let me know which one and why, so we document that. Also remember that those files are on the hobbes backup and OS2site.

- I'm not sure if I'm ever going to finish this. Technically is easy, no brainer, but it takes a lot of time to go file by file and complete the .txt files. And I also play a little bit with the old software, take some screenshot for the wiki, if it is possible.

For the moment I had complete the reorganization these directories:
    /pub/os2/apps/diary
    /pub/os2/apps/speech
    /pub/os2/apps/mmedia/cd/player
    /pub/os2/apps/mmedia/radio
    /pub/os2/apps/mmedia/TV
    /pub/os2/apps/mmedia/scheme
    /pub/os2/util/optical
    /pub/os2/util/batch


I had been working on moving files that I consider that are in the wrong folders, like icons, pointers on the /util, by creating newer categories for it.

I still need help on somethings like:

1) The directories "apps/graphics", "apps/multimedia" and "apps/internet" offers a challenge since there are big subcategories.

I even think that "apps/internet" is no longer as understandable as it was before, since now the internet is a common thing and the meaning of having exclusive apps for the internet is getting lost. I will discuss this further, but suggestions are welcome.

2) The "misc" directories are also something that need to be reviewed with more detail, since some files can be put on the right category, but for the uploader it was easy to put it on "/util/misc/" or "apps/misc" instead of finding the right place for it. I don't mean those folders shouldn't exist, but a double check into its contents will be good to see if there can be a better place.

3) Please let me know if by any chance I had reorganized some old software, and there is a newer version available.

4) I'm still not sure what to do with X11 (XFree86) software. Should I leave it on the same directory or should we create a new structure for X11? And/Or include on the file name "GameName_X11_1-0.zip" or "GameName_1-0_X11.zip"

5) Something more specific will be:
5.1) Suggestions on where should I put the applications for remote control? VNC? Desktop On Call? HelpDesk?
5.2) Suggestions on where should I put the applications  for file sharing? like torrent, Napster, etc?
5.3) What about the xcenter widgets? Should it be on a folder for xcenter widgets? or should each one goes on the belonging category folder of what it does?

If there is someone else, that would like to do the same (reorganize and upload files to hobbes) with DOS, Win16 and Win32 (Odin) and Java freeware software that runs on OS/2, maybe adding some extra .cmd and documentation to make it easy for OS/2 users to run, let me know.

Like always, help is welcome.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on September 04, 2021, 12:38:32 am
I agree. It shows that every classification needs to be maintained. Some thoughts:

To 1)

apps/internet is really not useful nowadays. OTOH has it useful subdirs (protocols) that makes it easy to find e.g. Thunderbird. apps/comm doesn't really make sense in a parallel dir.

apps/graphics and apps/multimedia: Use either a few (max. 10) more top-level dirs or many same-level dirs, but not both. It depends on the structure you have for this. I prefer more the first and wouldn't make it depend on what is now on Hobbes only. It's better to avoid trees with complete different amount of elements on the same level.

I would rather place the other smaller trees that have a too high level below useful top levels.

Another thing is single files in a dir that has other subdirs. Should they rather be placed in a "misc" dir below that? Then "misc" would make sense.

I guess you have already thought about most of them.

To 2)

These two misc dirs contain far too many items. I agree that most of them belong rather to other dirs.

To 5)

5.1) "remote". But rdesktop really in apps/internet/misc?
5.2) "filesharing"
5.3) "xworkplace\widgets"

(I prefer rather short names, but I always stumble about "wp" which should rather be "wordproc" and "dtp", IMO.)


Some other thoughts:

About Thunderbird: I would prefer to place Lightning beneath Thunderbird, not in apps/calendar. After moving them, the rest of app/calendar doesn't need such a high dir level.

About apps/wp: Acrobat Reader (not Distiller), IBM BookManager, PDFMerge and the GNU libs don't belong here. (I've just found that you've already mentioned PDFMerge in an earlier message.)

I'm not sure where to place programs and viewers an tools for special formats. I have here placed them in subdirs below "Format", but I don't like "Format" anymore. It's not that easy as it seems. Someone has to have a good idea for that.

About util: What's the criterion to place it here or in apps, esp. regarding the current contents of apps? I would drop that and move it rather to apps.

How is your planned structure?
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 04, 2021, 04:08:43 am
Thanks for the feedback Andreas.

How is your planned structure?
That is a good question. I don't have yet the final idea, since the idea changes according to the files and apps I found surfing hobbes. I think I will first write down the structure as it is, and work from it to post some planned structure.

apps/internet
...apps/graphics and apps/multimedia
Thanks for the feedback, I need more thoughts on it. But I won't make drastic changes yet until I get a clearer idea.

5.1) "remote". But rdesktop really in apps/internet/misc?
I think I'm going to start with "/pub/os2/util/remote" for it, and not put it on "/internet".

5.2) "filesharing"
I think I'm going to try "/pub/os2/apps/internet/filesharing" to reduce the number of files of "/pub/os2/apps/internet/misc"
5.3) "xworkplace\widgets"
Here I'm not sure if it is an app or an util.
- /pub/os2/util/wps/xwp/widgets
or
- /pub/os2/apps/wps/xwp/widgets
For what I know Xworkplace is more categorized as an utility instead of an application.

Quote
About Thunderbird: I would prefer to place Lightning beneath Thunderbird, not in apps/calendar. After moving them, the rest of app/calendar doesn't need such a high dir level.
I also share the idea that Lighting should be near Thunderbird, since it requires Thundebird to run.

Quote
About apps/wp: Acrobat Reader (not Distiller), IBM BookManager, PDFMerge and the GNU libs don't belong here. (I've just found that you've already mentioned PDFMerge in an earlier message.)
I also have some doubts here. On hobbes the "/pub/os2/apps/wp" description says "Word processing and desktop publishing".  I think that Acrobat, IBM BookManager and PDF related tools are "desktop publishing software", right? But I think that "desktop publishing" needs to be split from "/pub/os2/apps/wp"

I have no idea where to put the DLL runtimes yet. There are some on /dev and some on /apps. I'm not sure yet.

Quote
About util: What's the criterion to place it here or in apps, esp. regarding the current contents of apps? I would drop that and move it rather to apps.
The difference between Apps and Utils: For what I know and google says "Utility Software, as name suggests, is a software designed to perform particular tasks that help in making device perform better and keep environment safe." So, even that everything may be an application, "Utils" are software(applications) more related to make the OS work better to make it easier to administrate.


Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on September 04, 2021, 06:28:41 am
About Lightning, I can't even remember why I uploaded the older versions, packaging error or wanting to include gdata-provider and timezones, but those could go.
The newer versions seem to be all NLS versions, which somewhat surprises me as I would have thought applying a language pack would have updated lightning as well, but apparently not.
As Lightning is also a SeaMonkey add-on, I'd suggest a new directory, Mozilla add-ons or such. I have various other add-ons that I keep wondering about uploading to Hobbes. This includes some new ones such as ublock-origin's latest for XUL based browsers, which I had to patch for SeaMonkey (upstream refused to support our SeaMonkey)
About getting rid of old versions. Mostly I agree but there are exceptions. For the Mozilla apps for example, it seems that some people still use the 38ESR versions and I think they should also be left.
There's other examples where having multiple versions easily available is a good idea. GCC for example where some projects depend on older versions. XFree86, where ideally you have v4 and v3.31 both installed as v4 is missing some stuff that came with v3.x.
There's likely other examples, especially in dev where specific versions are needed and people are likely to expect them on Hobbes. Disk space is cheap.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 05, 2021, 11:25:28 pm
Hi Dave.
Thanks also for the feedback.

About getting rid of old versions. Mostly I agree but there are exceptions. For the Mozilla apps for example, it seems that some people still use the 38ESR versions and I think they should also be left.
I also agree that some Firefox 38ESR should remain in hobbes, but I still don't get there. There seems to many builds, and even if there is a full backup of all of those, I would need advice to know which one should remain there.

But I'm still not even sure of the location of the "Browser" directory. Currently it is on "/pub/os2/apps/internet/www/browser" and I think that the "internet" and "www" categories are no longer understood as it were on the past. Maybe it should only be "/pub/os2/apps/browser" or "/pub/os2/apps/internet/browser"

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on September 05, 2021, 11:44:40 pm
For the various Mozilla apps, the latest of each architecture is probably fine.
As for the browser, it is even worse as only Firefox is a pure browser. SeaMonkey is a browser and email (and news and IRC and composer) client and even Thunderbird is quite capable of acting as a browser as well as newsgroups and various chat protocols such as IRC.
Perhaps they all should be under  "/pub/os2/apps/internet/apps" or  "/pub/os2/apps/internet/mozilla" or "mozilla/apps"
It is awkward when programs have various uses but to me it seems FF, SM and TB should be in the same place or better, symlinked or hard linked to a couple of locations.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 06, 2021, 12:07:34 am
"/pub/os2/apps/internet/mozilla" or "mozilla/apps"
I'm trying to set a rule of not putting directory names about brands and/or products (even that sometimes I break that rule), and I want to make the directory names about what the software is for like "e-mail", "browser", but you are right about where do we put SeaMonkey or the Netscape suite... maybe under browser since it is mainly know it for that.

Ex: I don't like "/pub/os2/apps/internet/notes" that is "Lotus Notes" related. Also Lotus Notes works on the Internet and on a intranet, so putting it under "/internet" does not looks good today. Maybe the Lotus Notes files should be under "e-mail" since it is known for that function.

I still want to write down some proposed directory structure. The "/pub/os2/apps/internet/" still does not click for me (today).

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 06, 2021, 12:26:07 am

FYI: Here it is the current structure:

Code: [Select]
├───apps
│   ├───analysis
│   ├───calc
│   ├───calendar
│   ├───clock
│   ├───comm
│   │   ├───ansmach
│   │   ├───bbs
│   │   │   ├───adeptxbbs
│   │   │   ├───door
│   │   │   ├───maximus
│   │   │   └───util
│   │   ├───fax
│   │   ├───fossil
│   │   ├───offline
│   │   ├───term
│   │   └───transfer
│   ├───database
│   ├───diary
│   ├───editors
│   │   ├───emacs
│   │   └───epm
│   ├───emulator
│   ├───graphics
│   │   ├───animate
│   │   ├───cad
│   │   ├───convert
│   │   ├───draw
│   │   ├───fractal
│   │   ├───gimp
│   │   ├───imagepro
│   │   ├───irit
│   │   ├───paint
│   │   ├───plot
│   │   ├───presentation
│   │   ├───ray
│   │   │   └───pov
│   │   ├───scan
│   │   ├───scrncapt
│   │   └───viewer
│   ├───internet
│   │   ├───archie
│   │   │   └───client
│   │   ├───chat
│   │   ├───dialer
│   │   ├───dynip
│   │   ├───ftp
│   │   │   ├───client
│   │   │   ├───server
│   │   │   └───util
│   │   ├───irc
│   │   │   ├───client
│   │   │   ├───script
│   │   │   ├───server
│   │   │   └───util
│   │   ├───mail
│   │   │   ├───list
│   │   │   ├───reader
│   │   │   │   ├───mr2i
│   │   │   │   └───pmm
│   │   │   ├───server
│   │   │   └───util
│   │   ├───mirror
│   │   │   ├───ftp
│   │   │   └───www
│   │   ├───misc
│   │   ├───mud
│   │   │   ├───client
│   │   │   └───server
│   │   ├───news
│   │   │   ├───reader
│   │   │   ├───server
│   │   │   └───util
│   │   ├───notes
│   │   ├───ppp
│   │   ├───suite
│   │   ├───telnet
│   │   │   ├───client
│   │   │   └───server
│   │   ├───time
│   │   ├───util
│   │   ├───uucp
│   │   └───www
│   │       ├───browser
│   │       ├───cgi
│   │       ├───editors
│   │       ├───server
│   │       ├───util
│   │       └───vrml
│   ├───math
│   │   ├───euler
│   │   └───octave
│   ├───misc
│   ├───mmedia
│   │   ├───cd
│   │   │   ├───cd-r
│   │   │   ├───grabber
│   │   │   └───player
│   │   ├───codec
│   │   ├───jukebox
│   │   ├───misc
│   │   ├───music
│   │   │   ├───midi
│   │   │   │   ├───editors
│   │   │   │   ├───keyboard
│   │   │   │   ├───players
│   │   │   │   └───util
│   │   │   ├───misc
│   │   │   └───mod
│   │   │       ├───players
│   │   │       └───util
│   │   ├───scheme
│   │   ├───sound
│   │   │   ├───convert
│   │   │   ├───editors
│   │   │   ├───players
│   │   │   └───util
│   │   ├───TV
│   │   ├───util
│   │   │   ├───mixers
│   │   │   └───patch
│   │   └───video
│   │       ├───capture
│   │       ├───convert
│   │       └───players
│   ├───money
│   ├───pim
│   ├───religion
│   ├───science
│   │   ├───ai
│   │   ├───astro
│   │   ├───biology
│   │   ├───chem
│   │   ├───ee
│   │   ├───human
│   │   ├───phys
│   │   └───robot
│   │       └───mindstorm
│   ├───scrnsave
│   ├───speech
│   ├───spell
│   ├───spread
│   ├───suite
│   ├───wp
│   │   ├───convert
│   │   └───tex
│   │       ├───betatest
│   │       ├───emtex
│   │       ├───psfonts
│   │       └───util
│   └───wps
│       ├───xfolder
│       └───xworkplace
├───dev
│   ├───16-bit
│   ├───32-bit
│   ├───ada
│   ├───asm
│   ├───awk
│   ├───basic
│   ├───c
│   ├───codec
│   ├───cplusplus
│   │   └───patches
│   ├───database
│   ├───dive
│   ├───dll
│   ├───dos
│   ├───drivers
│   ├───emx
│   │   ├───contrib
│   │   │   ├───bison
│   │   │   ├───g77
│   │   │   ├───gcc
│   │   │   └───gnat
│   │   ├───v0.9c
│   │   └───v0.9d
│   ├───forth
│   ├───fortran
│   ├───help
│   ├───icon
│   ├───info
│   │   └───msjournal
│   ├───jscript
│   ├───lisp
│   ├───misc
│   ├───mm
│   ├───modula
│   ├───orexx
│   ├───pascal
│   ├───perl
│   ├───pm
│   ├───python
│   ├───rexx
│   │   ├───patches
│   │   └───vxtech
│   ├───SDL
│   ├───smalltalk
│   ├───tcl
│   ├───unix
│   ├───util
│   ├───wps
│   └───x11
│       └───gtk
├───doc
│   └───OpenGL
├───games
│   ├───action
│   │   ├───doom
│   │   └───quake
│   ├───adventure
│   ├───board
│   │   ├───checkers
│   │   └───chess
│   ├───casino
│   ├───educ
│   ├───mahjongg
│   ├───misc
│   ├───network
│   ├───patches
│   ├───puzzle
│   ├───rogue
│   ├───sport
│   ├───strategy
│   │   └───galciv
│   ├───toys
│   ├───txtadv
│   └───word
├───info
│   ├───faq
│   ├───forum
│   ├───newsltr
│   │   ├───connect
│   │   ├───dsn
│   │   ├───edm
│   │   ├───gamerev
│   │   ├───hhgos2
│   │   ├───midwest
│   │   ├───mm
│   │   ├───mn
│   │   ├───mnth
│   │   ├───pros
│   │   ├───sd
│   │   ├───tmb
│   │   ├───tmos2
│   │   ├───to2
│   │   ├───voice
│   │   └───warpfl
│   └───tips
├───system
│   ├───drivers
│   │   ├───APM
│   │   ├───cdrom
│   │   ├───CPU
│   │   ├───filesys
│   │   ├───irda
│   │   ├───misc
│   │   ├───modem
│   │   ├───mouse
│   │   ├───network
│   │   ├───PCCard
│   │   ├───printer
│   │   ├───scanner
│   │   ├───scsi
│   │   ├───serial
│   │   ├───sound
│   │   ├───storage
│   │   ├───TV
│   │   ├───usb
│   │   └───video
│   ├───patches
│   │   ├───fixpack
│   │   │   ├───v2.x
│   │   │   ├───warp_3
│   │   │   └───warp_4
│   │   │       ├───xr_m001
│   │   │       ├───xr_m004
│   │   │       ├───xr_m005
│   │   │       ├───xr_m013
│   │   │       └───xr_m014
│   │   ├───installer
│   │   ├───mixed
│   │   ├───v2.x
│   │   ├───warp_3
│   │   └───warp_4
│   └───x11
│       ├───term
│       ├───wm
│       └───XFree86
│           ├───v3.1
│           ├───v3.2
│           ├───v3.3
│           └───v3.3.1
├───util
│   ├───archiver
│   ├───backup
│   ├───batch
│   ├───benchmark
│   ├───browser
│   ├───clipbrd
│   ├───config
│   ├───convert
│   ├───disk
│   ├───encrypt
│   ├───file
│   ├───font
│   ├───international
│   │   └───chinese
│   ├───keyboard
│   ├───macro
│   ├───mboard
│   ├───memory
│   ├───misc
│   ├───mouse
│   │   └───amptr
│   ├───network
│   │   ├───lansrv
│   │   ├───ndis
│   │   ├───netware
│   │   └───tcpip
│   ├───optical
│   ├───patches
│   ├───power
│   ├───printer
│   │   └───ghost
│   ├───process
│   ├───schedule
│   ├───shell
│   ├───startup
│   ├───system
│   ├───virus
│   └───wps
└───win32os2
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 08, 2021, 04:37:54 pm
Hi

Even that I don't want to touch "/dev" yet, I'm thinking on moving "/pub/os2/apps/internet/www/editors" to something like "/pub/os2/dev/webauthoring"

Update: Or maybe just "/pub/os2/dev/web" which may mean Web Author or Web Development.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on September 09, 2021, 02:24:17 am
It seems to me they should be kept under apps. While it's true you can stretch html composers/editors to call them developer stuff, they're really aimed at regular users who want to throw together a web page. I wouldn't expect to find them under dev/
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 16, 2021, 06:06:34 pm
Hi

I think that the first stage of the hobbes reoganization (the first stage in my head) is almost ready. It was to rename and relocate some programs that where in the main category of some directories. For example there was a lot of stuff on "/pub/os2/util", "/pub/os2/apps", "/pub/os2/apps/graphics", "/pub/os2/apps/mmedia", etc, that were relocated to the correct directory. There are still something missing, like "/pub/os2/apps/comm" that is a mess.

The other things was to try to remove the excess of same apps with different version on hobbes (remember that we have backups). It still a work in progress.

Now I will focus on the super boring task of trying to rename and if possible reorganize some the apps. It is so boring that I prefer not doing it on a straight forward order, that's why my uploads seems so random. These will take some months.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 20, 2021, 04:16:18 pm
Hi

I need a place to put all the document viewers for Inf, PDF, Djvu, BOO, etc. With apps like NewView, Lucide, Acrobat Reader, Bookmanager, etc.

I'm thinking on creating "/pub/os2/apps/docviewer", instead of using "apps/misc" or "util/system"

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on September 21, 2021, 04:48:26 am
"/pub/os2/apps/docviewer" sounds good, or at least I can't think of anything better (more general)
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on September 21, 2021, 03:47:51 pm
"/pub/os2/apps/docviewer"
Same from me.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 22, 2021, 03:22:35 pm
Thanks.  The docviewer/ was created and I'm putting some files there.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 24, 2021, 10:25:49 pm
Hi

There are several INI maintenance tools distributed over "/pub/os2/util/wps", "/pub/os2/util/system" and "/pub/os2/util/config".
I'm tempted to consolidate all the INI tools to "/pub/os2/util/config"  (Configuration editors), what do you think?

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Eugene Tucker on September 25, 2021, 02:02:27 pm
I think that is a good idea.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 27, 2021, 06:10:31 pm
Hi

I think that "/pub/os2/apps/graphics" reorg is near to be done. I still need to check some of the convert tool and I also need to test more the "/gimp" stuff with XFree86-OS2 to see if I get some idea on how to put it inside "/paint".

There are two directories that I need to explain. In the computer graphics software there are several kind of software categories, but maybe the most comments are the:
1) Raster Graphics Editors: The ones that edit bitmaps like Adobe Photoshop, The Gimp, etc
2) Vector Graphics Editors: The ones that edit vectors graphics (SVG) like Adobe Illustrator, Inkscape, etc.
Since on the times of hobbes there where not defined that clear categories yet, I'm using "/Paint" for Raster and "/Draw" for Vector.
Maybe on the future those directories can be renamed on hobbes, but that is not a high priority.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on September 27, 2021, 06:39:27 pm
Should the XFree86 stuff be mixed with regular desktop programs? Same with the Windows stuff. Seems to me they should be kept separate so people don't mistakenly try to run them and get frustrated.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 27, 2021, 07:54:29 pm
Should the XFree86 stuff be mixed with regular desktop programs? Same with the Windows stuff. Seems to me they should be kept separate so people don't mistakenly try to run them and get frustrated.
Hi

I also share the idea that X11 software should be separated from the "/os2" folder.

For example we currently have in the main root hobbes:
Code: [Select]
- dos/
- incoming/
- java/
- multimedia/
- new/
- os2/
- windows/
Maybe it should be changed to
Code: [Select]
- dos/
- incoming/
- java/
- multimedia/
- new/
- os2/
- win16/
- win32/
- x11/

But I'm having a doubt here...
- DOS  directory is for DOS software that run on DOS and OS/2.
- Java directory is for Java software that runs on multiple OSes with JRE available and on OS/2.
- Win16 directory is for 16bit software that runs on Windows 3.1 and Win-OS2
- Win32 directory is for 32bit software that runs on Windows9x/NT and Odin.
But the XFree86 software, only runs on XFree86-OS2, it is supposed to be Unix software, but only runs on OS/2 since it is recompiled.

In my way to reason it made me stop to make a X11 directory. But I took the approach to put "X11 (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?search=%28X11%29&stype=any&sort=type_name&dir=%2F)" in the software I'm renaming (for the moment).

My other conflict is with Win32 software. There is plain Win32 software, and there is Win32 software that had been modified (odinized) to be turn into an OS/2 binary and runs with Innotek Runtime for example. The Odinized software is no longer a Win32 software  :-\

I'm still thinking about it.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on October 11, 2021, 07:58:22 pm
Hi

I have been doing some progress reorganizing and trying to simplify "/pub/os2/apps/mmedia/".

I have a doubt on where to put the "WebCam" tools to view video that are on "/pub/os2/apps/mmedia/video" and "/pub/os2/apps/mmedia/video/capture". Or maybe I just consolidate all on "/pub/os2/apps/mmedia/video/capture" to make it easy and stop thinking of a better place to locate it.

Regards. 
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on October 11, 2021, 08:05:24 pm
"/pub/os2/apps/mmedia/video/capture" seems good.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Wendy Krieger on October 16, 2021, 12:04:58 pm
I think Ian Manner's site has subdirectories where older versions are bunted into.

I was thinking about using a pattern like os2 itself, at least for some of it, eg /os2/mdos/winos2 or whatever, for bits to replace os/2's dos and windows stuff.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on October 17, 2021, 06:47:40 pm
Hi Wendy.
I think Ian Manner's site has subdirectories where older versions are bunted into.
I'm still evaluating that. On hobbes I'm just locating the newer stuff. Once I'm done with the hobbes reorg (if I'm ever done), I will talk further to Ian to see what can we do with the full repository with new and old versions.

I was thinking about using a pattern like os2 itself, at least for some of it, eg /os2/mdos/winos2 or whatever, for bits to replace os/2's dos and windows stuff.
I'm sticking with hobbes organization for the moment. Remember we also have Java and Win32 software to organize no the structure.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on October 17, 2021, 06:58:00 pm
Hi

I'm starting to reorganize the "/pub/os2/apps/internet" structure that I already told that I don't like, since "internet" is no longer a conceptual kind of network like it was on the mid 90's. Also there are many things on "/apps/internet/" that are really utilities, so I'm reorganizing some things. I prefer to re-think that category and move the applications according to what they do, independently if they are online (internet aware or internet requiered) or not.

Ex; Doom is under the game category, even if it can connect to the internet.

So, here are the questions I was avoiding:

1) Where should I put the web browsers? I was thinking to get out of the /internet/ and create a "/pub/os2/apps/webbrowser" or maybe if we still want to use that path put it on  "/pub/os2/apps/internet/webbrowser", but definitely stop using the "www" path (/pub/os2/apps/internet/www).

2) Which versions of Firefox and SeaMonkey should we keep in hobbes?

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Wendy Krieger on October 19, 2021, 12:50:36 pm
For some of us, there is a conceptial difference of what is inside the router and what is beyond the router.  This is more true when you consider some users pay by the megabyte or whatever. 

We would hope that shares made on the local network are not also shared over passers-by on the street, for example. 

For example, it might be fine to have email / browser / ftpclient under internet, and this remains true even when programs like TotalCommander can hook to the internet, while being specifically a local app.   
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on October 19, 2021, 04:31:32 pm
Hi Martin, missed this.
For the name of the directory, either of your ideas seems fine.
As for which versions. I guess if you want to trim older ones, I'd keep at least the 38ESR and the 45ESR various versions as there still seems to be people who prefer SM 2.35 at least and they still work. Older versions are getting useless as they don't support new enough encryption.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Sergey Posokhov on October 19, 2021, 06:09:10 pm
At least, "firefox-31.8.0.en-us.os2.beta_5-wpi.wpi" still works.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on October 20, 2021, 01:21:40 am
At least, "firefox-31.8.0.en-us.os2.beta_5-wpi.wpi" still works.

Good to know. Have you tried updating the letsencrypt certificate or did you just add an exception for here?
I'm inclined to keep all working browsers on Hobbes.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Sergey Posokhov on October 21, 2021, 12:39:28 am
I still press "Add Exception" :)
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on October 21, 2021, 05:58:18 am
You probably could update the certificate then, at least it supports a new enough TLS, probably 1.2
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on October 27, 2021, 09:53:29 pm
Hi

There is one thing that I'm not sure how to organize, those are the "server software" like web servers, mail servers, news servers. I'm thinking that maybe it is time to create a new category of "/pub/os2/server" and put something like:
- /pub/os2/server
-- /mail
-- /news
-- /web
-- /misc
I think that it is not good to put the server software on apps/internet, since a mail, web server, etc. can also be installed on an intranet or home network, without internet access.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on October 28, 2021, 02:16:29 am
Yes, they should definitely be under server.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on November 04, 2021, 04:03:25 pm
Hi

I keep going slowly on the hobbes reorganization process.

I can say that "/pub/os2/apps/graphics (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fapps%2Fgraphics)" is now almost complete. I had uploaded some Qt Graphics apps that were missing on hobbes and some empty directories need to be removed. Maybe the final step will be to check if some more graphics related software is missing. Help is always welcome.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Wendy Krieger on November 09, 2021, 10:53:33 am
On the other hand, "Network" would include "Internet", given that TCP/IP and Intranet are Internet things that are local.  Even my telephone makes no distinction between network and internet, even though it's no longer allowed to download stuff over the POTS but only through WiFi.

When you pay different prices for the same data in different ways, the distinction is useful to make.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on November 11, 2021, 09:02:27 pm
Hi Wendy

I also agree that the "Internet" things should go into "Network", but I also need to organize what goes into "/app" and what in "/util/network".  In the case of "/app" it is organized in hobbes for what does the app does, independently if it works on a network, internet or stand alone.

Let me see how that keeps going on, reorganizing "/os2/apps/internet/" is giving me some trouble  ;D

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on November 17, 2021, 08:47:15 pm
Hi guys. I'm not sure where to put "Jive-Valspeak (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/games/word/jive_val.zip)" program. I'm not sure if it is "toy" or it something that should go on "spell".

What do you think?

--- JIVE Version----
'Sup, dude guys. I'm not sho' nuff where t'put "Jive-Valspeak"  honky code. I'm not sho' nuff if it be "toy" o' it sump'n dat should go on "spell".

What do ya' dink?

----Valspeak Version----
Hi dudes. I'm not sure where to put "Jive-Valspeak" program. I'm not sure if it is like, ya know, "toy" or it somethin' that should go on "spell".

What do you think?

-------------
so funny...

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on November 18, 2021, 01:40:36 am
Looks like a toy to me
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Sergey Posokhov on November 18, 2021, 02:27:18 pm
It's a toy from e-mail epoch.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on November 18, 2021, 02:55:32 pm
Thanks
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Wendy Krieger on November 19, 2021, 09:22:46 am
I've seen the file in a pack of four joke filters.

Val-speak refers to the californian valley behind san-francisco and the style of speach used by young folk.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Sergey Posokhov on November 23, 2021, 11:21:11 am
It's time to move these files:
To:
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on November 23, 2021, 03:09:34 pm
Hi Sergey.

I want to reorganize /dev, but I haven't started yet. I need some ideas on how should the directory structure should be reorganized.

I was thinking something like:
Dev
--Samples
----Drivers
----PM
----WPS
--Tools
----IDE
----Compilers
----Util
----Version
----Design
----Documentation
----Database
--DLL
--LIB

Currently I'm busy with the /apps and /util reorganization, but suggestions on the /dev directory are welcome, so I can also start that little by little.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on November 26, 2021, 07:41:18 pm
Hello

I'm almost done with the reorganization of "/pub/os2/apps/mmedia (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fapps%2Fmmedia)", I'm just missing some files, but I think it is good now.

I think this directory ("/pub/os2/apps/mmedia (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fapps%2Fmmedia)), is ready for the next phase, which it is to find other OS/2 software sources and check is something is missing in hobbes to upload it too. But that phase is a secondary task, because the priority is too keep reorganizing other hobbes directories.

Suggestions of something missing on "/pub/os2/apps/mmedia" are welcome.

Remember the standard premises for this reorganization that were discussed before:


Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Guillaume Gay on November 27, 2021, 11:59:38 am
Hola Martin !

About file naming: I noticed the "SetBaud_1-0..zip" file with a double "." in Hobbes /pub/incoming this morning.
FWIW.

CU
--
Guillaume GAY
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on December 04, 2021, 03:01:38 pm
Hi

Where do you think it should go "vCompat" (enhanced compatability for OS/2 VDM sessions) ? It is right now on "/pub/os2/util/system".
Should it remain there? or there is a better suggestion.

It is like I'm missing on hobbes something for the DOS-VDM system things like creating a "/pub/os2/system/DOSVDM (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fsystem)", but I'm not complete sure about it, and if there are other files for that category.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Wendy Krieger on December 05, 2021, 10:02:59 am
I normally poke DOS stuff for OS/2 in a directory \MDOS under the OS2 files.  This is a sample of what's there.  These particularly work the DOS/OS2 interface.

2gbfix, denynone, dos5iso, doscall, dstart, dualdosc, endvdm, keydos, mscdex22, os2exec, pipdos11, run110, vcdr090

Code: [Select]

 Volume in drive L is l-tera02     Serial number is 7e1c:4e6c
 Directory of  L:\newapps\os2\mdos\*

[.]                [..]               [deu]              [files]         
[treibe]           2gbfix.zip         bio.btm            bootdisk.bat     
changdos.zip       ctl3dxx.zip        d014103.zip        denynone.exe     
dos5iso.zip        dosbox_small.exe   doscall.zip        dosrx10b.zip     
dstart.zip         dualdosc.zip       dynalink.zip       econfig.zip     
endvdm.zip         extdisk.zip        fdisk.zip          FINDDOS.ZIP     
FINDER.ZIP         ibmbasica340.txt   ibmbasica340.zip   KEYDOS.ZIP       
lniview.zip        mscdex2.zip        mscdex22.zip       NEWSTRG.ZIP     
os2exec.zip        OS2HDD2.ZIP        os2hddfx.zip       pcdv.exe         
pipdos11.zip       run110.zip         sfrename.zip       so100.zip       
srun.zip           startd.zip         STARTDOS.ZIP       STRTDM.ZIP       
syspart.zip        tktos2.zip         tntfxos2.zip       treeview.zip     
unstuf.zip         vcdr090b.zip       vCDROMv090b.zip    vcompatv032b.zip
VDMAv09b.zip       VIEWHLP1.ZIP       
           4,949,865 bytes in 49 files and 5 dirs    5,070,848 bytes allocated
      84,076,138,496 bytes free

Most of this is for running under DOS, or DOS under OS/2 or DOS with OS/2.  pcdv.exe is the reduced version of the PCDOS help system, as a standalone viewer.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Lars on December 06, 2021, 11:57:27 am
I know that this can be argued forever but I would NOT put "VCompat" under /pub/dos.

"VCompat" is a 32-bit OS/2 VDD (virtual device driver). It CANNOT be loaded by the DOS operating system. The same holds true for "VSound" and "VDMA" (from the same author and in the same directory as "vcompat").

"2GBFix" on the other hand is a DOS TSR (Terminate and Stay Resident) program that can be executed under a real DOS or inside an OS/2 VDM.

What might be reasonable is to have a new subdir "/pub/os2/system/drivers/vdd" to place these kind of drivers.


By the way: the "2GBFix" functionality is included in "VCompat". In short: it's easier and preferrable to use "VCompat" as it also has many additional DOS fixes.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Wendy Krieger on December 06, 2021, 01:51:40 pm
I suspect /MDOS instead of /VDD.  It's the directory where the stuff ends up in OS/2.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Wendy Krieger on December 06, 2021, 01:59:04 pm
The last "tame" that runs under OS/2 is one you can't register.  You can register later ones that runs under WinNT and Vista.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on December 06, 2021, 02:00:15 pm
I know that this can be argued forever but I would NOT put "VCompat" under /pub/dos.
I agree with that, since I also have in my mind that "/pub/dos" is for applications that runs in DOS and also on DOSVDM, not for specifically OS/2 VDM system utilities.

What might be reasonable is to have a new subdir "/pub/os2/system/drivers/vdd" to place these kind of drivers.
I also think that is a good idea. I need to keep thinking about it as I check "/pub/os2/util/system (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Futil%2Fsystem)" that seems to crowded.

Since there is "/pub/os2/system/x11", I was thinking we may have "/pub/os2/system/vdm" (Virtual DOS machine) and possible also "/pub/os2/system/win32" for the Odin based libraries (Instead of "/pub/os2/win32os2").

But I'm still in brainstorm since I haven't started updating the "/pub/os2/system/" directory.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on December 09, 2021, 01:03:34 am
Hi

I think that dialers software (to connect to a network) are more an utility than an app.  Currently they are in " /pub/os2/apps/internet/dialer", but maybe I want to move them to "/pub/os2/util/network".

What do you think?

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on December 18, 2021, 07:05:20 pm
Hi

Where do you think I should put "TIFF_1-0.zip" (TIIF is a replacement for PCIF/PCIFAST from Texas Instruments. Software for the PC-Interface between a TI74/95 poket-calculator and PC.)

Currently it is on "/pub/os2/apps/comm", but I think it should be over "/util" instead. But I'm not sure where to put it, or if a new directory should be create for that kind of utilities. Or maybe this is a good candidate for "/util/misc"? (I also have the "Psion" file there, which is the same category)

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Sergey Posokhov on December 22, 2021, 02:56:36 pm
Both TIFF and Psion should belong to something like "/pub/os2/util/handheld".
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on January 02, 2022, 05:18:10 pm
Both TIFF and Psion should belong to something like "/pub/os2/util/handheld".

Done !!
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on January 02, 2022, 05:22:25 pm
Hi

Happy New Year. I haven't finished organizing "/pub/os2/apps" and "/pub/os2/util" this 2021, but I guess I have 2022 too.
- I still have no idea what to do with "/pub/os2/apps/comm (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fapps%2Fcomm)". I'm thinking that many of those are utilities, and I'm also not a BBS guy, never use those.
- Suggestion on where to place the things from "/pub/os2/apps/internet/ppp (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fapps%2Finternet%2Fppp)" and "/pub/os2/apps/internet/uucp (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fapps%2Finternet%2Fuucp)" are welcome

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Sergey Posokhov on January 03, 2022, 09:31:00 pm
I spent some time to write file descriptions.
Here are *.txt files.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on January 04, 2022, 01:33:14 am
ppp - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-Point_Protocol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-Point_Protocol)
uucp - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UUCP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UUCP) (Unix to Unix copy)

Both come from the modem era and the contained files could just be added to the comm dir.

About the app/util question: I've already written before that I prefer to make no difference between them.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on January 04, 2022, 09:26:27 pm
I spent some time to write file descriptions.
Here are *.txt files.

Thanks a lot. It is very useful for me.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on January 11, 2022, 03:07:47 am
Hi

I finally started with the reorganization of the web browsers. They are now located at: "/pub/os2/apps/webbrowser (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fapps%2Fwebbrowser)"

Please take a look and let me know if I'm missing some key version of the web browsers we have for OS/2.


Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Sergey Posokhov on January 11, 2022, 05:56:22 pm
I have a crazy idea about https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=/pub/dos/games

Maybe, it't time to upload some old games like Lode Runner? It will not violate copyrights...
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on January 11, 2022, 09:03:51 pm
Hi Sergey

I think it will be good to upload DOS games (freeware, shareware, demos) that had been tested to work fine under OS/2 VDM. If it requires any tip, trick or any configuration to run better on OS/2 DOS VDM, it may be included on a readme file.

If someone wants to add more DOS games I will be glad if he/she can keep the same game structure that we have for the OS/2 games, like:
- action
- adventure
- board
- casino
- educ   
- misc   
- packs
- patches
- puzzle
- sport
- strategy
- tools
- toys

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Sergey Posokhov on January 11, 2022, 10:04:31 pm
Let's create directories.
I will upload old games with *.txt files.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on January 12, 2022, 01:01:42 am
Hi
Let's create directories.
I will upload old games with *.txt files.

The directories are created at the moment the uploads are processed. So just upload them and put them on the directory it applies and it will be created.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on January 21, 2022, 06:40:15 pm
Hi

I think that "/pub/os2/server (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fserver)" is almost ready. It's a new category and feedback is always welcome. I'm not  a server guy, maybe someone with more experience putting their servers on OS/2 can check if I missed something.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on January 26, 2022, 12:32:40 am
Hi

I think I'm going to start with "/dev/samples" and organize source code samples:

Dev
--Samples
----Drivers
----PM
----WPS

I will start just moving some little things and see how "/dev" shapes.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on January 26, 2022, 01:13:35 am
Perhaps also a misc or such sub-directory for ones that don't fit elsewhere such as full screen cmd sessions?
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 05, 2022, 05:05:20 pm
Perhaps also a misc or such sub-directory for ones that don't fit elsewhere such as full screen cmd sessions?

Thanks Dave, I will also try to create the /misc and see how the "/dev/samples" get into shape after populating it.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 11, 2022, 08:37:43 pm
I was thinking something like:
Dev
--Samples
----Drivers
----PM
----WPS
--Tools
----IDE
----Compilers
----Util
----Version
----Design
----Documentation
----Database
--DLL
--LIB

Hi

I started to reorganize things on /dev. For the moment I have this structure:

Dev
--Info
----Articles
----Books
--Libraries
----Graphics
----Hardware
----Misc
--Runtimes
----c
----Misc
----REXX
--Samples
----Drivers
----Misc
----PM
----WPS
--Tools
----Make
----Toolkits

And I keep going little by little reorgnizing the /app and /util

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 15, 2022, 08:29:34 pm
Hi

Where should be a good place to place Agena and Lua on the /dev ?

I'm thinking like something on  /dev/tools/????, but I don't know yet. Any suggestions?

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on February 15, 2022, 08:58:05 pm
Tools or languages. Strictly speaking they're programming (scripting?) languages which can be considered a tool.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Sergey Posokhov on February 15, 2022, 10:44:45 pm
Languages.

Not general-purpose but still languages.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 16, 2022, 08:29:05 pm
What about putting Agena and Lua on "/dev/tools/scripting" ??

And for the rest I will follow something like
- /dev/tools/c
- /dev/tools/cplusplus
- /dev/tools/smalltalk
..etc
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Sergey Posokhov on February 16, 2022, 10:07:42 pm
Agena is a language, an old-fashioned Algol-68 in XXI age.

C and C++ aren't tools but languages.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 17, 2022, 05:22:45 pm
Agena is a language, an old-fashioned Algol-68 in XXI age.

C and C++ aren't tools but languages.

How I see the structure is that if the directory is called " /dev/tools/smalltalk" it meas that it stores development Tools for the smalltalk language.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on February 17, 2022, 06:00:15 pm
OK, That sounds reasonable. But generally, I prefer to have that stuff below the language dir itself. For the mentioned case it would be /dev/smalltalk/tools instead of /dev/tools/smalltalk.

IMO /dev/tools should be completely removed.

(It should be avoided that someone has to look for something in multiple dirs.)
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 17, 2022, 08:29:14 pm
IMO /dev/tools should be completely removed.
I'm not sure about it. Where should I put the IDE, Make and other tools that does not belong to an specific language?
Check what is currently on /dev/tools (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fdev%2Ftools)

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on February 17, 2022, 09:13:49 pm
Yes, you are right. But when I see which tools are below /pub/os2/dev that aren't languages, I find it confusing to have a few under /pub/os2/dev/tools. I would just move /pub/os2/dev/tools with their dirs to /pub/os2/dev. Example: /pub/os2/dev/make.

IMO another dir that could receive some rework is /pub/os2/dev/util. In case of the one that I've contributed (htext201.zip), all files in /pub/os2/dev/help are rather utils. So why have some of them below dev/utils and others below dev?

Another dir is /pub/os2/dev/misc. I don't have an idea so far. So, there are utils, tools and misc. I would either remove them all or move many packages to either utils or tools and remove the others.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 23, 2022, 02:22:32 pm
Hi Andreas

I will keep trying to organize /dev and see how it goes evolving and see if I can came with an idea of "utils vs. tools vs. misc issue" and try to find a way out.
For sure I will be posting about that subject in some weeks.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 23, 2022, 02:25:18 pm
Hi

I'm trying to finish the /apps directory. If you have any suggestion for a better location of the files on "/pub/os2/apps/misc (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fapps%2Fmisc)" please let me know.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on March 02, 2022, 10:21:06 pm
Martin, I have started to write something together on 2022-02-23. Just let me rework and continue that. It may took a few more days.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on March 09, 2022, 02:41:38 am

Hi

I created "/pub/os2/util/filesearch" to reduce a little bit the size of "/pub/os2/util/file" and since there were enough apps to justify the new directory.

I did something similar to "/pub/os2/util/multiuser" to reduce the size of "/pub/os2/util/wps".

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on March 12, 2022, 05:26:11 pm
Hi

I'm still thinking about a better way to organize /dev.

Today I'm thinking on something like:

Dev
--Samples
----Drivers
----PM
----WPS
--Tools
----IDE
----Compilers
----Util
----Version
----Design
----Documentation
----Database
--DLL
--LIB
[/quote]

Hi

I started to reorganize things on /dev. For the moment I have this structure:

Dev
--Info
--Libraries
--Runtimes
--Samples
--Tools
...as it is right now. And include some new directory for Compilers/Interpreters to include the languages as subdir like:

Dev
--Info
--Libraries
--Runtimes
--Samples
--Tools
--Compilers (?)
---- ASM
---- C
---- CPP
---- ICON
---- SmallTalk
---- ....

But I'm still not sure if "Compilers" is the right word for that directory. Or maybe something more general like "Lang" that means "Language specific tools"
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on March 12, 2022, 05:41:54 pm
To me, compilers seems more accurate then lang, though not perfect. An assembler strictly speaking is not a compiler though similar.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on March 12, 2022, 06:03:05 pm
In my file from 23-02-2002, I have: /pub/os2/dev/proglang

Either one would be OK for me (proglang, compilers or lang). "lang" has already another meaning, see the env var "LANG". BTW, there exist compilers and interpreters, so compilers might not be a suited place for e.g. REXX tools.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on March 12, 2022, 10:08:45 pm
I like "proglang" too.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on March 18, 2022, 03:29:18 pm
Hi

Should "dos2unix" and "unix2dos" be on the /dev directory? I read that is a more like a "text processing utility" or "text convert tool". Will it be fine to go on "/pub/os2/util/convert" ?

Update: thinking it better maybe "/pub/os2/dev/tools/parsers". ??


Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on March 18, 2022, 11:29:10 pm
Should "dos2unix" and "unix2dos" be on the /dev directory?
No, it's not (only) a tool for developing, more a general tool.

I read that is a more like a "text processing utility" or "text convert tool". Will it be fine to go on "/pub/os2/util/convert"?
That seems to be the best destination IMO.

thinking it better maybe "/pub/os2/dev/tools/parsers".
No.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on March 18, 2022, 11:55:32 pm
I like "proglang" too.
Ok, that makes it a bit easier. But moving all proglang files of /pub/os2/dev/ to that new subdir is much work. (IIRC, dirs are created automatically per placing archive files. Otherwise it would be easy by moving these trees with access to the file system. Maybe Curtis, the maintainer, has a better idea. I would address him first.)
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on March 22, 2022, 04:16:51 pm
Hi

I'm taking the risk and created "/pub/os2/dev/proglang (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fdev%2Fproglang)", and I'm starting to move things (compilers/interpreters) there little by little. I hope this will bring more visual order to  "/pub/os2/dev/ (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fdev)" after some empty directories get removed.

I'm starting to lose "juice" here, so I will be going slowly since I put on my mouth more than I can chew.  Moral support is also welcome.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on April 08, 2022, 04:05:05 pm
Hi

"/pub/os2/dev (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fdev)" is taking shape.

I'm going forward with the idea of this structure:
Code: [Select]
Dev
--Info
--Libraries
--ProgLang
--Runtimes
--Samples
--Tools

Inside "ProgLang" I'm including the specific compilers for each language.

There are the /misc folders inside some of those. If someone sees that a new category(directory) can be created, since there are like 5 items that can create a new category, let me know.

Regards

Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 03, 2022, 06:51:54 pm
Hi

Just to keep posting some updates, I had been doing some progress with "/pub/os2/dev (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fdev)"
I think it looks better, but I still need to keep working with the C, Cplusplus, REXX, EMX and Pascal to put it under /proglang.

To don't get bored, I jump from time to time to reorganise other directories and I found I have some complications on how to organise this two directories:
- "/pub/os2/apps/comm"
- "/pub/os2/util/network"

On COMM, I don't have any experience with BBS and modem communication software. Does Fossil falls under the BBS category?

I'm trying to organise things (if possible), not of what technology they are, but what they do. On "/pub/os2/util/network/" I still need to think about the "lansrv, "tcpip" and "ndis".
I'm confused about "ndis" because are protocol drivers that I had never used. Are those fine there? Any suggestions? or should be moved to something like "/pub/os2/system/drivers/ndis" ?

Comments and help is always welcome.

Regards

Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on May 04, 2022, 01:40:05 am
Fossil would fall under the BBS category.
 Network Driver Interface Specification (NDIS) is just another name for our (and DOS and Windows) network drivers, or more exact part of them IIRC. OK, Wiki has an overview, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Driver_Interface_Specification (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Driver_Interface_Specification)
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Sergey Posokhov on May 30, 2022, 10:58:39 pm
It's time to rename
/pub/os2/util/network/analizer
to
/pub/os2/util/network/analyzer

:-)
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 31, 2022, 09:47:46 pm
 :o :o :o

You mean the files in the incomming directory, yes, that is my mistake.

But the hobbes archiver already fixed all my past mistakes putting them on "Analyzer" with "y" (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Futil%2Fnetwork%2Fanalyzer).

I will fix the .txt files that I use for template to reflect the correct word.

Thanks for the feedback.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 31, 2022, 10:58:18 pm
Network Driver Interface Specification (NDIS) is just another name for our (and DOS and Windows) network drivers, or more exact part of them IIRC. OK, Wiki has an overview, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Driver_Interface_Specification (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Driver_Interface_Specification)

Hi

I'm still processing in my mind where is the right place for "/pub/os2/util/network/ndis (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Futil%2Fnetwork%2Fndis)"
-  Is it fine there?
- Should it go somewhere representing that is for the VDM, like "/pub/os2/system/VDM/ndis" ?
- Should it go somewhere else?

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on June 01, 2022, 01:23:35 am
Seems to me that  "/pub/os2/util/network/ndis" is fine. IIRC they can work under OS/2, DOS and older Windows depending on installer and perhaps other support files.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 25, 2022, 01:53:10 am
Hi

I had lost some intensity on the hobbes reorganization, and I think I'm happy with the directory structure now.

I don't know if there are some comments, I still need to continue with:
- /pub/os2/apps/comm/bbs
- /pub/os2/util/network/tcpip
- /pub/os2/dev/pascal
- /pub/os2/dev/rexx (This will take longer)

I'm also starting slowly with: /pub/os2/system/patches

Regards

Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 17, 2022, 05:16:59 pm
Hi

I was thinking if it will make sense to divide the "/pub/windows" in two:
- /pub/win16  - For Windows 16 bits apps that runs on Win-OS2
- /pub/win32 - For Windows 32 Bits apps that runs on OS/2 with Odin.

But this is just an early idea, I don't know if there is enough Win32 Freeware/Shareware/OpenSource that runs with Odin to populate in a decent way the /win32 directory.  And it makes sense to first finish with the native apps reorganisation before starting this.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 22, 2022, 06:55:59 pm
Hi

Just a good day to create a self reminder of the directories on APPS that I'm missing to organize.
- /pub/os2/apps/comm/bbs
- /pub/os2/apps/editors
- /pub/os2/apps/religion
- /pub/os2/apps/science/chem
- /pub/os2/apps/science/ee
- /pub/os2/apps/wp

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 22, 2022, 07:06:38 pm
Hi

I found this two files that I can not unzip, both looks like corrupt here.
- https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/system/x11/XFree86/v3.1/312fslib.zip
- https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/system/x11/XFree86/v3.1/312fvfb.zip

If someone can confirm, I will apreciate it.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: TeLLie on July 22, 2022, 09:34:44 pm
Hi Martin,

For me these also give errors when unpacking

Path = 312fslib.zip
Type = zip
ERRORS:
Headers Error
Unconfirmed start of archive
WARNINGS:
There are data after the end of archive
Physical Size = 467196
Tail Size = 340577

ERROR: CRC Failed : XFree86/lib/X11_s.a

Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on July 23, 2022, 06:12:24 am
Is it worth even keeping v3.1 (and 3.2) around? The latest 3.x was 3.3.6, which perhaps should be uploaded to Hobbes, same with 4.x where the latest seems to have been 4.5.0.
BTW, the last release of XFree86 seems to have been 4.8, which I could probably build, it's EMX, need gcc-elf and an EMX unixroot. Probably some of the xorgs from before they ripped out the imake stuff and/or OS/2 code could also probably be built. I don't see the point unless very bored though.
ftp://ftp.xfree86.org/pub/XFree86/3.3.6/binaries/OS2/ (http://ftp://ftp.xfree86.org/pub/XFree86/3.3.6/binaries/OS2/)
ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/../pub/xfree86/4.5.0/ (http://ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/../pub/xfree86/4.5.0/)
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 23, 2022, 03:57:40 pm
Hi

Is it worth even keeping v3.1 (and 3.2) around? The latest 3.x was 3.3.6, which perhaps should be uploaded to Hobbes, same with 4.x where the latest seems to have been 4.5.0.
ftp://ftp.xfree86.org/pub/XFree86/3.3.6/binaries/OS2/ (http://ftp://ftp.xfree86.org/pub/XFree86/3.3.6/binaries/OS2/)
ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/../pub/xfree86/4.5.0/ (http://ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/../pub/xfree86/4.5.0/)

I agreed with that. I will only keep the latest 3.x and latest 4.x on hobbes. I will keep the older versions locally in one file for the "other legacy repo" we may have someday. For the moment I need to keep trying how should I remove/replace that large list of files on each "/pub/os2/system/x11/XFree86" directory. It seems that the New Mexico University is on vacations these days.

Quote
BTW, the last release of XFree86 seems to have been 4.8, which I could probably build, it's EMX, need gcc-elf and an EMX unixroot. Probably some of the xorgs from before they ripped out the imake stuff and/or OS/2 code could also probably be built. I don't see the point unless very bored though.
It would be awesome if you can do some testing of building 4.8 version and see if it works. And it will be great if the X11 aficionados can help to test it out a little bit with the X11 ported software.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Mentore on July 25, 2022, 08:19:50 am
Is it worth even keeping v3.1 (and 3.2) around? The latest 3.x was 3.3.6, which perhaps should be uploaded to Hobbes, same with 4.x where the latest seems to have been 4.5.0.
BTW, the last release of XFree86 seems to have been 4.8, which I could probably build, it's EMX, need gcc-elf and an EMX unixroot. Probably some of the xorgs from before they ripped out the imake stuff and/or OS/2 code could also probably be built. I don't see the point unless very bored though.
ftp://ftp.xfree86.org/pub/XFree86/3.3.6/binaries/OS2/ (http://ftp://ftp.xfree86.org/pub/XFree86/3.3.6/binaries/OS2/)
ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/../pub/xfree86/4.5.0/ (http://ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/../pub/xfree86/4.5.0/)

Hope you'll find yourself pretty bored ASAP, then  ;)
Mentore
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on July 25, 2022, 06:24:06 pm
Is there interest? Basically have to use the VESA driver and all the apps are so old.
The problem with XFree86 is they changed the licensing, making it incompatible with the GPL, which is why everyone moved away.
Looking, it looks like Xorg 6.9 was the last to use the imakefile style of building and still had the OS/2 code in it. With v7 they went to a configure build system, haven't looked to see if OS/2 code was still there but it would be hard to build compatible libs as all functions were exported by ordinal and there was basically a database of ordinals to keep the DLLs backwards compatible.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 25, 2022, 06:44:57 pm
Is there interest? Basically have to use the VESA driver and all the apps are so old.
The problem with XFree86 is they changed the licensing, making it incompatible with the GPL, which is why everyone moved away.
Looking, it looks like Xorg 6.9 was the last to use the imakefile style of building and still had the OS/2 code in it. With v7 they went to a configure build system, haven't looked to see if OS/2 code was still there but it would be hard to build compatible libs as all functions were exported by ordinal and there was basically a database of ordinals to keep the DLLs backwards compatible.

For what I know the only killer application on XFree86 is an old GIMP ported there.  But I'm not a reference for the X11 use on OS/2, I don't know much about it.

Just in case, in Hobbes, the X11 applications had been marked with "(X11)" so it can be easily found on the site (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?dir=%2F&stype=all&sort=type_name&search=X11).

I think this port will be interesting only depeding on the time efforts. If it is going to take too much time to port XFree86 or Xorg, it will be better just to set it to rest. But if it can be quick port and show some results, it may be good to generate interest.

Usually when someone ports a library or a framework, it requires the "Killer App" to accompany it. Like for RUST is Firefox, for our Qt 5 is the Modern browser, for XFree86 or xorg maybe The GIMP will be the killer app.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 29, 2022, 04:36:09 pm
Hi

I think that in this hobbes folder ( /pub/os2/apps/wp/tex/util (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fapps%2Fwp%2Ftex%2Futil)) there is a confusion between LaTeX and GNU texinfo. I don't have deeper knowledge of any of those, but I think I just need to put the LaTeX related utilities here "/pub/os2/apps/wp/tex/uti" and move the GNU textinfo utilities somewhere else, maybe to "/pub/os2/dev/tools/help".

Or maybe there will be a better idea on were to located this software. Suggestion are welcome.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on July 29, 2022, 10:21:43 pm
Hi Martin,

let me put some light on this at first: The base group for both should be tex (usually written as TeX). TeXInfo is one dialect and LaTeX is another. Both base on TeX, where TeXInfo is - probably due to its age - only sightly changed. TeXInfo is completely TeX and has nothing to do with LaTeX.

LaTeX is broadly used, not only for manuals. It is a very powerful macro package for TeX and is far more easy to use. It receives continues updates for both its kernel and its numerous additional macro packages. While the height of LaTeX has probably passed, the typesetting quality of its output is still by far not reached by anything else.

At least all LaTeX tools should be placed in a LaTeX subdir, not TeX. The same applies for TeXInfo, while there are probably fewer tools.

More to come, after I hd a look at that.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 29, 2022, 10:47:34 pm
Thanks Andreas for the explanation. I don't use of those, so I apreciate your knowledge.

Take a look and let me know.

What I will like to resolve is:
- Is "/pub/os2/apps/wp/tex" still a good place for all TeX stuff? including LaTeX and TeXInfo?
- or should we separete LaTeX stuff from TeXInfo ?
- Or should I stick to "/pub/os2/apps/wp/tex" and "/pub/os2/apps/wp/tex/"

I just trying to find the right place.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on July 30, 2022, 12:00:46 am
TeX and especially LaTeX can be seen in competition to other "wordprocessing" systems. TeX is a typesetting system. It's more DTP than wordprocessing. But even the actual DTP programs all have problems to reach the quality of LaTeX texts.

But "wp" is probably the best solution for it. BTW: It's about finding files, nothing else. While the Hobbes files probably show their age, I had always used the CTAN (https://www.ctan.org/) servers in favor of it. You'll find also the aged OS/2 software there. The newest ones that we have are the latest VTeX 8.44.2 and teTeX 3.0. Both are extremely outdated. More easy to use is probably OS2TeX, but also older and less complete. And it's (abandoned?) shareware.

EmTeX is a completely outdated package for DOS. IIRC its apps were compiled with emx in family mode, at least in earlier days. Note the "em" (Eberhard Mattes (https://ctan.org/author/mattes)) prefix for both. Later versions include a PM DVI "previewer". It was the best we had while the actual LaTeX version was 2.09. In the meantime there were many tries to bring LaTeX to 3.0, but it still sticks at version 2e, since ages. In the times where 2e was relesed, the extension eTeX for Kuth's ingenious TeX came out. It's still not a full requirement for LaTeX 2e, but as I've just read, it's almost done.

For OS/2 we have a recent system for editing and viewing: TeXstudio (ecsoft2) (https://ecsoft2.org/texstudio) and TeXStudio (Wikipedia) (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeXstudio), ported with Qt. (The screenshot on the German page is the best, but there exist also e.g. Spanish (https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeXstudio), English (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeXstudio) and Ukrainian (https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeXstudio).) But all of them require a TeX (LaTeX) subsystem. That is probably far superior to other editing solutions, like e.g. EPM (or NEPMD) with TeX Front End (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/apps/wp/tex/util/epmtfe54.zip) and e.g. Ghostscript as previewer.

While creating texts is obviously still possible, newer ones use more packages, where we don't have a recent OS/2 port for. E.g. Beamer uses PGF/TikZ and the versions that Beamer requires are not contained in our outdated VTeX. I had first seen Beamer slides by Adrian and have then copied that for a WSE presentation. But (unfortunately?) in my current job I don't have a need for it anymore.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: fusion on July 30, 2022, 04:29:55 am
I have to say this is a bit of a shame. 20+ years worth of links on the Internet to the Hobbes archive don't work anymore. Several archives on Hobbes also have text files in them referencing other files on Hobbes by filename, which can no longer be searched since most of the names have been changed.

Would have been better to create a new index referencing into the old structure or something. As it is now, I've been using one of the mirrors listed in the main page to find the files with their correct filenames. And I have the original directory structure memorized..

Ah well..
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 30, 2022, 05:11:55 am
Hi Fusion.

I have to say this is a bit of a shame. 20+ years worth of links on the Internet to the Hobbes archive don't work anymore. Several files on Hobbes also have text files in them referencing other files on Hobbes by filename, which can no longer be searched since most of the names have been changed.

Would have been better to create a new index referencing into the old structure or something. As it is now, I've been using one of the mirrors listed in the main page to find the files with their correct filenames. And I have the original directory structure memorized..

Ah well..

I respect your opinion, but hobbes needed a refresh trying to remove unnecessary versions of the same software, duplicated files, wrong located files and with issues with filenames that didn't mean anything at all for the people surfing the site.
Ex: There was files called "os2.zip" and "warp.zip" that did not give you any hint what and which version that people were downloading. 
I personally think that the "20+ years worth of links on the Internet" are disappearing at a very fast speed with all the OS/2 sites that get erased day after day.

Also I had been including the original file name on the long description so the name can be indexed on search engines in case of someone looking for those. I'm also trying my best to include the full name, version and release date of each file, that is searchable on the hobbes site, so, if the filename does not work you can search the name of the software and mostly it will give you a search result.

If you prefer to have the old names, you can get the hobbes backup on archive.org at: https://archive.org/download/hobbes-archive-2020-02/ (https://archive.org/download/hobbes-archive-2020-02/) and hopefully it will be there forever.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on July 30, 2022, 07:02:46 am
I have to say this is a bit of a shame. 20+ years worth of links on the Internet to the Hobbes archive don't work anymore. Several archives on Hobbes also have text files in them referencing other files on Hobbes by filename, which can no longer be searched since most of the names have been changed.

Would have been better to create a new index referencing into the old structure or something. As it is now, I've been using one of the mirrors listed in the main page to find the files with their correct filenames. And I have the original directory structure memorized..

Ah well..

The Hobbes maintainers themselves changed things a couple of years back and broke everything, then they went to HTTPS which also broke all links.
Personally when posting a link in a readme etc I try to use a search term, which helps until Hobbes changes again. Remember it's main purpose is a teaching tool at a university.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on July 30, 2022, 02:35:11 pm
Good points, Dave. I support Martin's changes and had myself to adapt Hobbes and other links multiple times. Unfortunately links are not static. Note that Ian not only hosts files from everywhere (http://www.os2site.com/sw/index.html), but also several old mirrored servers (http://www.os2site.com/mirrors/), including Hobbes from 2020.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on August 11, 2022, 07:04:25 pm
Hi

While I keep going reorganising the /os2/util directory, I will like to go in parallel with the next phase, which is including missing software on hobbes.

I need feedback to know which freeware/shareware/opensource software I'm missing on /os2/apps (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fapps).
The idea will be to have on hobbes the latest version of each software for OS/2.

So, if you see text editors, Engineering software, calculators, etc, that is missing hobbes, just post it here so I can upload it.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on August 11, 2022, 07:27:49 pm
Good idea. I just remember that many netlabs.org apps are not on Hobbes. Another group is Paul's apps and tools. In the past we had extra files from Japanese sites. Now there are Russian sites that host apps not on Hobbes, e.g. Glassman's Object REXX (http://ttps://5nets.ru/downloads/l).

Nothing specific so far, but there are many.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on August 12, 2022, 12:18:16 am
Good. I had checked the excellent Glassman software. It is update in hobbes with the exception of:
- DOSIdle (https://5nets.ru/downloads/?/) :  Don't know what it does and where to put it.
- CCDoc (https://5nets.ru/downloads/?/) :  Don't know what it does and where to put it.

Regard
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on August 13, 2022, 11:35:45 pm
Ok, I had also checked Paul Smedley's site and sync some file versions with hobbes. Thanks to Paul for fixing some dead links on his site.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: fusion on August 14, 2022, 06:48:53 pm

- DOSIdle (https://5nets.ru/downloads/?/) :  Don't know what it does and where to put it.


this one should help fix high DOS CPU usage for CA-Clipper (similar to slicer.com from the neatutls.zip package from dink but for only one program)
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on August 14, 2022, 07:10:41 pm

- DOSIdle (https://5nets.ru/downloads/?/) :  Don't know what it does and where to put it.


this one should help fix high DOS CPU usage for CA-Clipper (similar to slicer.com from the neatutls.zip package from dink but for only one program)

That's good. Maybe both (DOSIdle  and NeatUtils) can go into "/pub/os2/util/system", otherwise I'm open for a better location suggestion on hobbes.

And I found more about CcDoc, it will go to "/pub/os2/dev/tools/docgen"

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Lars on August 15, 2022, 03:00:46 pm
About driver duplicates, as far as the "main driver" goes:

1) https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/system/drivers/network/os2ndisp.exe (Version: 2.04c)
is an exact duplicate of
2) https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/system/drivers/network/TokenRingPCIv33b.zip (Version: 3.3b)

But 1) contains an additional driver to support PC-CARD based interface HW but compared to 2) it is lacking the DOS drivers.
For OS/2, package 1) is therefore the more complete set of drivers.

If you insist on keeping both, I suggest to at least update both descriptions to "Version 2.04c" because that is what the enclosed documentation refers to in both cases.



Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on August 15, 2022, 08:28:19 pm
About driver duplicates, as far as the "main driver" goes:

1) https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/system/drivers/network/os2ndisp.exe (Version: 2.04c)
is an exact duplicate of
2) https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/system/drivers/network/TokenRingPCIv33b.zip (Version: 3.3b)

But 1) contains an additional driver to support PC-CARD based interface HW but compared to 2) it is lacking the DOS drivers.
For OS/2, package 1) is therefore the more complete set of drivers.

If you insist on keeping both, I suggest to at least update both descriptions to "Version 2.04c" because that is what the enclosed documentation refers to in both cases.
Hi
On this case I think it will be better to merge both. I had just uploaded it "TokenRingPCI_3-3b.zip" to replace both files.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on August 16, 2022, 05:22:49 pm
Hi

I had new question about where to locate things.

There some some utilities that replaces OS/2 command, like "cd", "dir", replacements (ex; d53.zip, ctree.zip, dcd.zip, dd051.zip, deldat10.zip, delpth11.zip, deltree.zip, etc). A lof of them are on "/pub/os2/util/disk"
I'm not sure if that should be the correct location, since I see the "/disk" more as partition utilities, disk tools (defrag, checkdisk, format) and even floppy image utilities.

Which other options do I have:
- "/pub/os2/util/misc"          - Not sure, since at the end everything ends on "Misc"
- "/pub/os2/util/file"            - Maybe, since some of this command line utilities may be realted to files
- "/pub/os2/util/system"      - Maybe, there are some command line tools there, but also some hardware report utilities.
Or a create a new directory.

What do you think? Ideas are welcome.

Regards


Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on August 17, 2022, 11:05:54 am
Ian has commandline (http://www.os2site.com/sw/util/commandline/index.html). Much better than disk or misc, IMO. I don't know if I would prefer cmdline.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Guillaume Gay on August 17, 2022, 03:22:02 pm
Bonjour,

- "/pub/os2/util/file"            - Maybe, since some of this command line utilities may be realted to files

The tools mentioned are meant for files and directories, so "/pub/os2/util/file" would make sense.

Adding more directories to Hobbes wouldn't make sense, IMHO.

BTW, thanks, Martin, for the job done so far on this huge project.

Have a nice day.
Take care you all.
--
GG
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on August 17, 2022, 05:42:08 pm
Thanks for the feedback.

I will go with the idea of putting the file/directory related command line tools on "/pub/os2/util/file", but I will have to check later if the "/util/file" grows too much and see if some other idea comes out.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on August 24, 2022, 09:01:09 pm
Hi Martin, I'm missing Mark Kimes' mshred on Hobbes:

Harald has it on his site: ftp://cyberia.dnsalias.com/pub/filebase/gfd/wps/tool/mshred.zip

mshred WPS object: A "super-shredder" for OS/2 Warp+ from M. Kimes.
Free-for-the-using. It has two modes, trashcan and shredder. The shredder can
delete e.g. WPS objects that the WPS denies.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on August 26, 2022, 03:04:15 am
Hi Martin, I'm missing Mark Kimes' mshred on Hobbes:

Harald has it on his site: ftp://cyberia.dnsalias.com/pub/filebase/gfd/wps/tool/mshred.zip

mshred WPS object: A "super-shredder" for OS/2 Warp+ from M. Kimes.
Free-for-the-using. It has two modes, trashcan and shredder. The shredder can
delete e.g. WPS objects that the WPS denies.

Thanks for the feedback, it is now available on hobbes.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 01, 2022, 07:03:12 pm
Hi

"/pub/os2/util/file (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Futil%2Ffile)" is now done, but if you know other applications missing, let me know.

I will continue with:
- /pub/os2/util/disk
- /pub/os2/util/system

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 03, 2022, 12:19:12 am
Hi

I need some help to understand the FreeType stuff on "/pub/os2/system/drivers/misc (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fsystem%2Fdrivers%2Fmisc)".
This are supposed to be a "Font Driver", but I don't know if it actually an OS/2 driver, or a run time DLL.

What do you think it should be location for the FreeType files?

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: fusion on September 03, 2022, 02:12:26 am
Hi

I need some help to understand the FreeType stuff on "/pub/os2/system/drivers/misc (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fsystem%2Fdrivers%2Fmisc)".
This are supposed to be a "Font Driver", but I don't know if it actually an OS/2 driver, or a run time DLL.

What do you think it should be location for the FreeType files?

Regards

http://www.altsan.org/programming/os2/#ft2

with improvement examples:

http://www.altsan.org/programming/os2/ft2_fonts.html
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on September 03, 2022, 12:12:21 pm
There are several packages that contain both installable files and source files. Sometimes source files are made available in a different package, sometimes not and sometimes they contain only runtimes. It's not limited to FreeType.

It depends how you want to handle this. Every option has its disadvantages:
Of course, the decision should be consistent. And the last one is probably too much work. The first one makes it easier for developers to find sources for runtimes. It would be the easiest to handle. The second one is that what the Hobbes tree implies, IIRC, but files are often not put into the correct dir (you know that better). Mixed packages are put to the runtime packages. That's better than letting users hunt for runtime files in the source tree. Source packages are often only available for older versions and it's hard for developers to find sources in mixed packages, even when there exist many versions.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 03, 2022, 02:47:54 pm
Hi

My doubt is not on how to handle the source code. It is only if FreeType applies like a driver on "/pub/os2/system/drivers/misc" or if it should be located somewhere else on hobbes. Like on "/pub/os2/dev/runtimes" or " /pub/os2/dev/libraries".

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on September 03, 2022, 04:01:51 pm
Hi

My doubt is not on how to handle the source code. It is only if FreeType applies like a driver on "/pub/os2/system/drivers/misc" or if it should be located somewhere else on hobbes. Like on "/pub/os2/dev/runtimes" or " /pub/os2/dev/libraries".

Regards

Freetype/2 is a driver based on freetype which is a library
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on September 03, 2022, 06:57:27 pm
Freetype/2 is a driver based on freetype which is a library
Yes, I would put it in /pub/os2/system/drivers/freetype or let it in misc if you want to keep that or in /pub/os2/system/drivers/fonts if that makes sense.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 06, 2022, 03:52:31 am
Hi

I will keep the freetype stuff on "/pub/os2/system/drivers/misc". Thanks.

I was wondering, why the sever is called Hobbes? because of Thomas Hobbes (Philosopher), or was it for Calvin and Hobbes (comic strip) ? Just in case Hobbes (From Calvin and Hobbes) is based also based in Thomas Hobbes.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Sergey Posokhov on September 06, 2022, 12:23:09 pm
“The Mathom-house it was called; for anything that Hobbits had no immediate use for, but were unwilling to throw away, they called a mathom. Their dwellings were apt to become rather crowded with mathoms, and many of the presents that passed from hand to hand were of that sort.”
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 16, 2022, 11:35:58 pm
Hi

The  "/pub/os2/util/disk (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Futil%2Fdisk)" directory is done. I'm moving to "/pub/os2/util/system (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Futil%2Fsystem)"

Feedback is welcome if I'm missing something.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 24, 2022, 12:17:09 am
Hi

I think I'm pretty happy with:
- /pub/os2/util/disk
- /pub/os2/util/file
- /pub/os2/util/system

Now I will check the other stuff on /util
- Archiver, Convert, encrypt, font, printer.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 27, 2022, 07:30:33 pm
Hi

Just in case, I would like someone with more experience on BBS that can help thinking the best way to organize the BBS related files.  I know what a BBS is, but I had never connected or set up one.

Currently Hobbes has:
- "/pub/os2/apps/comm/bbs" which I need to reorganize, since I think many of those are utils and not apps.
- "/pub/os2/server/bbs" The reorganized BBS server applications.
- "/pub/os2/util/BBS" the reorganized BBS utilities.

I'm not happy yet on how to reorganize this, because of my lack of knowledge of what is Door and what is Maximus. Should there have their own directory? or should be all in "/pub/os2/util/BBS".

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on September 27, 2022, 11:44:49 pm
Maximus is a BBS system,  and "door"s are BBS interfaces to external programs.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on October 16, 2022, 03:25:33 pm
Hi

I have a new question here.
Checking the "/pub/os2/util/archiver" I found there is a lot of UUEncode/UUDecode software. ("uuencoding is a form of binary-to-text encoding that originated in the Unix programs uuencode and uudecode for encoding binary data for transmission in email systems.")

I don't think that they belong to "/pub/os2/util/archiver", maybe it will be better "/pub/os2/util/encrypt" or maybe setting their own directory category.

What do you think?

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on October 16, 2022, 03:37:39 pm
Yes, I agree.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Eugene Tucker on October 16, 2022, 03:47:31 pm
I think their own catagory would be best.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Tom on October 16, 2022, 11:23:12 pm
Hi

I have a new question here.
Checking the "/pub/os2/util/archiver" I found there is a lot of UUEncode/UUDecode software. ("uuencoding is a form of binary-to-text encoding that originated in the Unix programs uuencode and uudecode for encoding binary data for transmission in email systems.")

I don't think that they belong to "/pub/os2/util/archiver", maybe it will be better "/pub/os2/util/encrypt" or maybe setting their own directory category.

What do you think?

Regards

Not in /pub/os2/util/encrypt.

Encryption is meant to make information inaccessible for somebody who is not the intended recipient of that information.
While encoding only changes the format in which information is stored.

Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on October 17, 2022, 01:02:29 pm
Yes that's better. But unfortunately another dir (encode)? must be added then.

There are already too much. I would prefer /pub/os2/util/file/encode instead of /pub/os2/util/encode. Many more dirs of util could be moved below file, but it's a lot of work.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on October 18, 2022, 06:57:17 pm
Thanks for the feedback.

I think I will prefer "/pub/os2/util/encode" to try to don't expand the directory tree more deeper.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on October 24, 2022, 03:37:37 am
Hi

I think that "/pub/os2/util/convert" is the last thing to reorganize on /util.
I'm getting close for finish this phase.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on October 25, 2022, 06:20:00 pm
Hi

I'm done with "/pub/os2/util/convert".

It puts me on a position that I'm almost ready with "/pub/os2/apps" and "/pub/os2/utils".

As a note to self, I'm not happy and missing what to do with:
- /pub/os2/apps/comm/bbs
- /pub/os2/util/network/lansrv
- /pub/os2/util/network/tcpip
- /pub/os2/util/network/ndis
- /pub/os2/util/network/netware

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on November 13, 2022, 08:16:21 pm
Hi

There are these three files that I guess are somewhat related. os2nosv4.zip, pmnos11x.zip, pmnos1dx.zip. Those are ports of KA9Q NOS, according to wikipedia "KA9Q, also called KA9Q NOS or simply NOS, was a popular early implementation of TCP/IP and associated protocols for amateur packet radio systems and smaller personal computers connected via serial lines."

I have no idea exactly how it works. Is it a full TCP/IP implementation, or is only for serial communication? What about the amateur packet radio systems part?
I still don't get what the software does.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on November 13, 2022, 10:36:35 pm
I think it enabled connecting a radio to the computer via serial line and then doing TCPIP over the link. So with no wired (or regular wireless) internet, you could have a slow connection over shortwave or which ever amateur frequencies where the licensing allowed.
So, I' assume a full TCP/IP implementation operating wirelessly over an amateur band.
Maybe put it in the same place as PPP, SLURP etc programs go
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on November 28, 2022, 05:27:48 pm
Thanks for the continuos feedback.

Also, I found some rexx scripts for "text filtering" and/or "string search" that I'm not sure where to put.
Like rxmulch2.zip, quotword.zip, rxedit03.zip, textfilt.zip

Everything is on "/pub/os2/dev/rexx" but I think it can be improved. Maybe no "dev/tools/???"

Any suggestion on how the "????" directory should be named?

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on November 28, 2022, 06:30:37 pm
dev/text or dev/tools/text ?
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on December 30, 2022, 04:21:57 pm
Thanks for the lastest comment Dave. I did it that way. /pub/os2/dev/tools/text (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fdev%2Ftools%2Ftext)

I keep checking slowly that Hobbes contains the latest version of each software. First I'm comparing it to OS2.site/sw (http://www.os2site.com/sw/). I'm slowly checking each directory and compare the files to the one on hobbes and updating the latest version to hobbes if I found one.

And as a colateral I'm also starting to structure the /java /windows /dos directories while some related program appears.

Help is welcome on:
1) If you find some freeware/shareware/public/open program that is missing on hobbes, let me know.
2) If you have a better text description for each directory on hobbes, also let me know to request the change to the archiver.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on January 17, 2023, 12:09:26 am
Hi

I took a backup of my 31GB public files repository on Archive.org.
https://archive.org/download/OS2FileRepo_2023-01-15

This is similar what I have in hobbes, with the difference that I'm also preserving the older versions of the software.
It is part of the idea to have a eventually a different repository with current and older versions of OS/2 software. It is very draft, but I wanted to have a public backup, as a second backup, just in case.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on January 22, 2023, 04:19:01 pm
Hi

Today I got this doubt on where should hobbes kept the "Pre-recorded Demos for products". Those are recorded demos, that is an executable that shows you some multimedia presentation, it may have sound and allow you to make some clicks, but it is not a working demo or a product.

Currently I have those at "/pub/os2/games/toys", which I don't think it is the best place.
The files are: OS2WarpDemo_1995-02-28.zip, WordPerfect_5-2_Demo.zip.

On the DOS files I preferred to move them out of "games" and have those on "/pub/dos/apps/toys".

What do you think?

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Tom on January 22, 2023, 06:05:46 pm
Hi

Today I got this doubt on where should hobbes kept the "Pre-recorded Demos for products". Those are recorded demos, that is an executable that shows you some multimedia presentation, it may have sound and allow you to make some clicks, but it is not a working demo or a product.

Currently I have those at "/pub/os2/games/toys", which I don't think it is the best place.
The files are: OS2WarpDemo_1995-02-28.zip, WordPerfect_5-2_Demo.zip.

What you describe sounds like a "product presentation" or "product introduction". Perhaps in /pub/os2/info/marketing ? (already exists on Hobbes)
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on January 31, 2023, 01:59:14 pm
Thanks Tom.

I will follow your suggestion.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on March 09, 2023, 12:57:14 am
Hi

I still going "little by little" with the Hobbes reorganization.

But now I want to put more focus on check that Hobbes has the latest version of Freeware/Shareware/Open/Public/Free OS/2 related files. If someone was some suggestions of what is missing please let me know.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on March 20, 2023, 04:11:05 pm
Hi

Maybe you noticed that I had been reorganizing the Java section (/pub/java) using the similar structure of /pub/os2/
The idea is to have Freeware/Shareware/Open/Public/Free java software that runs on our current versions of Java, and try to include some .cmd that gives the user a first hand help to run the app on OS/2. 

It is fun for the moment, and Joop's Java website (https://joopn.home.xs4all.nl/os2ecs/ecs6e.htm) had been of great use. Thanks a lot to Joop.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on April 10, 2023, 06:09:16 pm
Hi

I think I had done a very good progress with the "/pub/java (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fjava)".  I still have some pending apps from Joop's site that I'm missing there, but I will go easy.

Yesterday I started to put some focus on "/pub/windows (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fwindows)" and I'm trying to respect the same directory structure I used for "pub/os2". 

I'm feeling that possible it will be good slip the Windows directory in two, one for Win16 and other for Win32. On Win16 to put all the 16bit and Win-OS2 related software, and on Win32 to put the Windows 32bits software that runs with Odin and any other Win32 software that is useful for OS/2 users.

I still want to see how "/pub/windows (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fwindows)" evolves while I reorganize it's content, but feedback is welcome on this subject.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on April 11, 2023, 04:03:26 pm
Under the /pub/java/apps (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fjava%2Fapps (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fjava%2Fapps)) there is a database sub-directory that gives an 404 page not found error.

Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on April 11, 2023, 05:05:35 pm
Hi Neil

Under the /pub/java/apps (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fjava%2Fapps (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fjava%2Fapps)) there is a database sub-directory that gives an 404 page not found error.

Thanks for letting me know that, that error happens with the directory is empty. What I do is request the Hobbes admin to delete those directories if at the end nothing is located there. I'm moving the java database utilities to "/java/util/database" and the databases server software (if applies) to "/java/server/database ".

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on April 24, 2023, 11:35:39 pm
Hi

Motivation is below 0 today (Monday?).
- Java is now done on Hobbes
- I wish I can continue with DOS and Windows
- I also want to include any other OS/2 missing software (Freeware/Shareware/OpenSource/Demo).

I also need to find the final OS/2 DOS VDM and Win-OS2 fan to tell me which are the best apps that runs there... and that I can upload to hobbes.  I always ask how to "beef up" DOS VDM and Win-OS2, or what are the "Must Have" utilities for it, this will be a good moment get more feedback.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 04, 2023, 10:42:44 pm
Hi

The DOS section is almost done /pub/dos (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fdos)
I just need to relocate these last 7 files.

What is "lsl.zip (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/dos/lsl.zip)"? It says "Dos Client Message File", is it some kind of communication software? Serial?

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on May 05, 2023, 03:23:55 am
Copyright 1990-1994, Novel, Inc. Maybe a Netware TSR or such. Looking, this page, https://support.novell.com/techcenter/articles/ana19960502.html (https://support.novell.com/techcenter/articles/ana19960502.html) references a slightly newer one from 1996 though mostly lsl32, the 32 bit version, and here is a PDF on it, https://www.novell.com/documentation/developer/lancomp/dos_psta/dos_pstack.pdf (https://www.novell.com/documentation/developer/lancomp/dos_psta/dos_pstack.pdf).
Seems lsl stands for Link Support Layer.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 08, 2023, 06:59:34 pm
Hi Again.

Getting into again the reorganizing again, I will put some efforts to finish
"/pub/windows".

One with thing with "/pub/dos", I don't know where to put dos5iso.zip which it says is the "IBM DOS 5.0 ISO font supplement"

And I'm going little by little trying to include all the OS/2 public (Freeware/Shareware/OpenSource/Demos) software I can find on hobbes. That is a long and ongoing thing.

There is this rule we set at the beginning or the reorganization , "Hobbes will only maintain the latest version of the software, and some exceptions apply."  I still have also the crazy dream to have a secondary repository with new and old version of all OS/2 Software following the same directory structure of hobbes. I'm doing that on my hard drive, and I published a backup on 2023-01-15. (https://archive.org/download/OS2FileRepo_2023-01-15). But the energy is running low these months  ;D

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 10, 2023, 06:24:22 pm
Hi Guys.

Do you think that hobbes should start supporting .7z and .rpm files just like now supports .zip and .wpi ?

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on June 10, 2023, 06:34:41 pm
Well, rpm is easy enough to zip up, foo_02_rpm.zip. Not sure about 7z, though for large files it is better.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on June 11, 2023, 03:32:49 pm
If Hobbes would support .rpm files, it should be in a repository that I can add to ANPM or my YUM repository list.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on June 11, 2023, 05:06:39 pm
If Hobbes would support .rpm files, it should be in a repository that I can add to ANPM or my YUM repository list.

It would have to be set up as a repository and have all the needed metadata.
Easiest is to set up a local rpm repository for loose rpm's.
If you want directions, start a thread.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on June 12, 2023, 03:54:15 pm
I'm not sure how a local repository would help. If someone uploads a .RPM to Hobbes, how would my local repository know about the new file?
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on June 12, 2023, 07:50:54 pm
You'd have to populate the local repository by hand.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 13, 2023, 05:02:57 pm
Hello.

"RPM on Hobbes": It didn't mean that Hobbes will turn into a RPM server, but to store some .rpm files that are on the wild. But Neils questioning is interesting. How useful is to have a .rpm package outside a RPM server? You can install it manually, but downloading the file, but the convenience of having RPM/yum to list, download the file and let you know any update is not there.

But on the other side we are starting to have some .rpm for OS/2 software on the wild that is not on the netlabs rpm server. (Ex Featherpad, Feathernotes). Should it be easier to upload the .rpm files on the wild on Netlabs? I don't know the process of uploading rpm files on netlabs.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Tom on June 13, 2023, 05:11:31 pm
Should it be easier to upload the .rpm files on the wild on Netlabs? I don't know the process of uploading rpm files on netlabs.

That would mean uploading a .rpm file to rpm.netlabs.org and placing it in release/00/i386/i686 (for the i686 architecture in the release repository) or placing it in experimental/00/i386/i686 (for the i686 architecture in the experimental repository). rpm files for (say) the pentium4 architecture should be placed in release/00/i386/pentium etc.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 14, 2023, 11:02:02 pm
FYI: About the reorganization:
-  /pub/windows
- /pub/dos
Are now organized trying to follow the same directory structure like /pub/os2.  If someone has some Win-OS2 or DOS-VDM software that feels that should be includes there, please let me know.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 25, 2023, 10:31:25 pm
Hello.

I have this problem extracting this file:
https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/system/patches/atm16.zip

Is it corrupted? I tried another from os2site but it has the same issue.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on June 26, 2023, 12:11:00 am
Extracted fine here, ATM16.DLL and ATM16DLL.TXT. Don't have Acrobat version 2.0 to test it.
Want a rezip of it?
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 26, 2023, 12:29:01 am
Extracted fine here, ATM16.DLL and ATM16DLL.TXT. Don't have Acrobat version 2.0 to test it.
Want a rezip of it?

Yes Dave, thanks, please rezip the file and upload it here.

Seems that the zip software that I have at hand can not unzip it.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on June 26, 2023, 02:43:02 am
Ok.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 08, 2023, 06:28:52 pm
Thanks Dave.

I think the reorganization looks pretty good now.
On this latest weeks I had been putting some efforts to compare ecsoft2.org with the software in hobbes, and verify that Hobbes has the latest versions.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: andreas on July 10, 2023, 12:18:53 pm
Just wanted to send you a big "thank you" for all your efforts!
You're doing a great job!
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Eugene Tucker on July 10, 2023, 02:52:35 pm
I agree he has done a good job I can now finnd some of my old OS/2 apps by searching although they lock up ARCA OS 5.08. Not his problem or doing.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 10, 2023, 06:32:42 pm
Thanks Guy.

I appreciate good feedback since these days I need all moral support I can get  ;D

OS2World is 23 years old, yesterday I turned 45 and I found out that I had been involved on this site for a little more more than half of my life now, and it remains being fun.

Thanks to all of you for being part of OS2World.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on July 10, 2023, 11:17:24 pm
Happy belated Birthday, and thanks for all you've done for the platform. Without a site like OS2World, things would be much worse.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: OS4User on July 15, 2023, 02:14:52 pm
2023/07/14    PCI_1-04vka_2023-06-19.zip    Picardy 3 HTML Editor 0.61
2023/07/14    Picardy3_0-63.zip    PCI+AGP Bus Sniffer ver 1.04vkA with pcidevs.txt

there is something wrong here
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 15, 2023, 03:16:06 pm
Hi
2023/07/14    PCI_1-04vka_2023-06-19.zip    Picardy 3 HTML Editor 0.61
2023/07/14    Picardy3_0-63.zip    PCI+AGP Bus Sniffer ver 1.04vkA with pcidevs.txt

there is something wrong here
Yes, I made a mistake with the txt files yesterday. But I think it is fixed now, check it out.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Sergey Posokhov on July 20, 2023, 06:02:02 am
I found a typo, see: http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?search=LXExe (http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?search=LXExe)

"Formtat" instead of "Format".
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 20, 2023, 05:33:06 pm
I found a typo, see: http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?search=LXExe (http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?search=LXExe)

"Formtat" instead of "Format".
Thanks, I uploaded the correction.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 25, 2023, 01:59:30 am
Hello.

I'm not sure why I can not run/unpack this DOS file:
https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/system/drivers/modem/lucent.exe

It just kills the DOS session, I'm guessing it is a package file, but I'm not completely sure.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Mentore on July 25, 2023, 08:02:05 am
Hello.

I'm not sure why I can not run/unpack this DOS file:
https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/system/drivers/modem/lucent.exe

It just kills the DOS session, I'm guessing it is a package file, but I'm not completely sure.

Regards

Hi Martin,

did you try with DOSBox? Maybe the unpacker uses something too low level for the DOS session to allow it (just guessing though, it really should give you some error message. Too long since I used DOS sessions on OS/2).

Mentore
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on July 25, 2023, 11:33:41 pm
Hello.

I'm not sure why I can not run/unpack this DOS file:
https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/system/drivers/modem/lucent.exe

It just kills the DOS session, I'm guessing it is a package file, but I'm not completely sure.

Regards

Hi Martin,

did you try with DOSBox? Maybe the unpacker uses something too low level for the DOS session to allow it (just guessing though, it really should give you some error message. Too long since I used DOS sessions on OS/2).

Mentore

Hello

I just tried DOSBox and the lucent.exe file just hangs there when I run it. Maybe the file is broken.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Ian Manners on July 26, 2023, 10:57:25 am
Have you tried 'unzip lucent.exe' ?
Often a lot of self extracting archives can be unlzh, unzipped etc.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on August 06, 2023, 06:14:54 pm
Have you tried 'unzip lucent.exe' ?
Often a lot of self extracting archives can be unlzh, unzipped etc.

Nope, it didn't work with several tools I tried. I think it may be corrupted, but it will be nice to have other parties confirm that.

Rewgards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on August 06, 2023, 06:21:52 pm
Hello

In some related news, I think I had made a good progress these days by checking eCSoft/2 site and updating what was missing/outdated inside hobbes.

This is the second phase on Hobbes reorganization, checking other OS/2 file sources and comparing they are on hobbes with the latest version. But for the moment I don't want to handle the RPM files.

Let me know any files (Freeware/Shareware/OpenSource/Demos) that you may find that Hobbes is missing. I'm still looking for the Win-OS2 and DOS VDM gurus that may point me any "must have" software for it that may be missing on hobbes.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Michael Greene on September 14, 2023, 02:35:26 am
Can files still be uploaded to hobbes?

Mike
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Lars on September 14, 2023, 07:46:38 am
Yes. I use that whenever I upload new USB drivers to Hobbes.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 22, 2023, 07:04:09 pm
Hello

Just in case to let you know. I had been slowly checking other OS/2 files repository and compare if the software is available on hobbes. There had been some little interesting things that was missing on hobbes and I had been uploading them.
For example, these days I'm checking the OS/2 file from: http://cd.textfiles.com/swextrav4/swextrav4-4/

If you find some OS/2 Freeware/Shareware/Patch/Open software that hobbes is missing, let me know.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on October 10, 2023, 06:37:25 pm
Hello

I compared the Qt4 and Qt5 software on Netlabs to make sure the latest versions are also in hobbes.
I go after the Qt6 ported apps since it is still experimental.

Let me know anything else it may be missing in Hobbes. I still haven't think what to do about the stuff that is on the RPM, I'm not uploading any of that stuff to Hobbes. Some brainstorming may be needed to see if it makes sense or not.

I will keep slowly checking some other older sources (Shareware CD's, sites) to anything I may be missing about OS/2.
Comments are welcome.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on November 01, 2023, 04:15:31 pm
Hello.

The other day I was thinking a little bit about the "fonts" directory on hobbes (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fmultimedia%2Ffonts).
For what I know OS/2 supports four kind of fonts.
- PostScript
- Truetype
- type1
- OS/2 Bitmap Font - .fon

Currently hobbes has three directories with ps, truetype and type1. I'm still not sure if I should only create a new directory for the .fon (Bitmap) fonts, or if fonts should be reorganized in a different way in hobbes.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Sergey Posokhov on November 02, 2023, 12:57:44 am
"Raster fonts" maybe?
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Alex Taylor on November 02, 2023, 01:12:20 pm
Either "Raster" or "Bitmap" makes sense.

FWIW, Type 1 fonts are Postscript fonts -- they are the same thing. I have no idea why Hobbes has two different directories for them.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on November 02, 2023, 02:01:53 pm
Hello, thanks for the feedback

FWIW, Type 1 fonts are Postscript fonts -- they are the same thing. I have no idea why Hobbes has two different directories for them.

You are right Alex, thanks. I also found this:
Quote
Type 1 fonts (also known as PostScript, PS1, T1, Adobe Type 1, Multiple Master, or MM) are a format within the font industry that has been replaced by formats that can support larger glyph sets.

Type 1 fonts were introduced by Adobe in 1984 for use with its PostScript page description language, and became widely used with the spread of desktop publishing software and printers that could use PostScript. In 1996, Adobe products and type development began to concentrate on the use of more versatile OpenType fonts rather than Type 1.
source: Adobe (https://helpx.adobe.com/fonts/kb/postscript-type-1-fonts-end-of-support.html)

I haven't installed any Postscript or Type1 font on OS/2, but for what I see the files on /ps and /type1 has the same extensions (.PFB .PFM .AFM .PFA).
But I still do not find what was the factor for a user to upload a font to choose between  /ps or /type1.

Maybe both directories can be merge into Postscript. "Type 1" a lightest directory compared to "ps".

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on November 02, 2023, 02:46:28 pm
Hello

A different but related question.

I read that "DSPRES.DLL (http://www.edm2.com/index.php/DSPRES.DLL)" contains fonts inside.  Like this file:  warpsans.zip (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/multimedia/fonts/ps/warpsans.zip)

Is the "DSPRES.DLL" supposed to contain a Bitmap font? Postscript? Depends?, so I can categorize this file on hobbes.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Sergey Posokhov on November 02, 2023, 03:00:53 pm
Is the "DSPRES.DLL" supposed to contain a Bitmap font?
Yes, most of them.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Alex Taylor on November 04, 2023, 01:17:48 pm
DSPRES.DLL contains the core (always-installed) PM system fonts: System Proportional, System VIO, Helv, and WarpSans.

They are all raster fonts. However, I would classify DSPRES.DLL as a operating system file because it's one of the system DLLs. Also, the one in Hobbes font directory is only suitable as an update for Warp 3 systems, and IMO should be classified as a Warp 3 update/patch file.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on November 05, 2023, 02:26:59 am
Hello.

DSPRES.DLL contains the core (always-installed) PM system fonts: System Proportional, System VIO, Helv, and WarpSans.

They are all raster fonts. However, I would classify DSPRES.DLL as a operating system file because it's one of the system DLLs. Also, the one in Hobbes font directory is only suitable as an update for Warp 3 systems, and IMO should be classified as a Warp 3 update/patch file.

Yes Alex, that's good. I will wait until the archiver process the new directory, and after that I will move those away from the font folder.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 16, 2024, 10:30:41 pm
Hello

As you may noticed from the Groups.IO discussion, I will continue the "OS/2 File Repository Reorganization" with HobbesArchive.com (http://HobbesArchive.com) that was created and hosted by Nathan Woodruff.

I will continue the hobbie of finding software that hobbes is missing and uploading it there and I will keep discussing here when I have doubts of where to located files.

All the OS2World Wiki file download links had been redirected to HobbesArchive.com. FYI: It was easy because I made all download links to hobbes as a wiki template. In the next days I will redirect the EDM/2 download links too. But sadly, redirecting the old news from the OS2World site is not that simple.

If there is any issues withe HobbesArchive.com I will talk it to Nathan to try to find any solutions.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: David McKenna on February 16, 2024, 11:33:35 pm
 Thanks Martin and Nathan for keeping Hobbes alive! Very important resource for OS/2 users on the web.

Thanks!

EDIT: I notice on the main page mirror 'OS/2 Site Australia' is shown to be in the USA? I doubt it...

 Also was not able to register an account - got a generic 'something went wrong' error...
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: andreas on February 16, 2024, 11:51:52 pm
also a big thank you from my side!

May I suggest something?
Maybe it's useful to add a comment function to each entry, maybe with some sections for stability, usability, limitations, better alternatives, special features, and others. or maybe some rating

amoung all the programs there are some gems and a lot of outdated, not working, problem causing, difficult to install or other "bad" programs.  I guess it would be helpful for everyone to get some clues ...
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Lars on February 17, 2024, 08:54:37 am
This would go against Martin's decision to keep all old cruft.
Back at the time, he uploaded to Hobbes all old versions he could find.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: TeLLie on February 17, 2024, 11:15:54 am
Hi All,

Will access with webdav still works?

Greetz Tellie
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 17, 2024, 12:35:14 pm
Hello.

- As far as I know Webdav is not planned.
- Registration is not working for the moment, but people can still upload files. (Nathan will check if some Anti-Spam or registration is required later)

EDIT: I notice on the main page mirror 'OS/2 Site Australia' is shown to be in the USA? I doubt it...
- I will give Nathan feedback about that. The site is called OS/2 Australia but it is hosted on Netherlands. I guess the mirror should be "Netherlands".

Maybe it's useful to add a comment function to each entry, maybe with some sections for stability, usability, limitations, better alternatives, special features, and others. or maybe some rating

amoung all the programs there are some gems and a lot of outdated, not working, problem causing, difficult to install or other "bad" programs.  I guess it would be helpful for everyone to get some clues ...
- Do you have more detail of you suggestion, any site that looks similar of what you want? ecsoft2.org has a comment area, but I'm not sure if you want something like that, or found a better example.
-Andreas, but if you have an example of "bad" programs, just post is here. If it dangerous, we can add more information or even remove it.

About the software upload:
What we discussed on this thread is that hobbes should have the latest version of every OS/2 software. No matter how old or new it is. To recognize old stuff I choose to standardize to the "latest update date" on the "short description" of the file, so people can easily see it is something from 1995 or 2024.

But there are exceptions to this rule:

1) Drivers: There are retro OS/2 users that require older drivers, because newer drivers will not work for their machines. There are cases when people prefer a working older driver because the newer remove/change support for their device.

2) Libraries and Runtimes: Sometimes software is locked to an specific version of a DLL runtime or library and it's good to keep those versions.

But there is still the necessity to have the older versions of all OS/2 software in a repository. I had encounter myself with users that don't want to use the latest by different reasons.  For the moment we have https://os2site.com/sw and http://cyberia.dnsalias.com/index.htm for them. But I hope in the future to work in a "Software Archive" repository with the older versions of each software.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: andreas on February 18, 2024, 09:39:30 pm

- Do you have more detail of you suggestion, any site that looks similar of what you want? ecsoft2.org has a comment area, but I'm not sure if you want something like that, or found a better example.
-Andreas, but if you have an example of "bad" programs, just post is here. If it dangerous, we can add more information or even remove it.


have no similar site in mind. The comment area in ecsoft2 is not so much for the comments i have in mind for its assumed content. but technically it might be similar. peolpel should be encouraged to write their opinion about the software so others might know in advance that the progam is suitable for him or not. it might save a lot of time for many people and maybe avoid big problems.

You ask for an example. Hm. I treid 100s of programs since i use OS/2. I saved maybe 300 programs that are "good" for me. The rest is "bad" for me. That does not mean that the programs must not have been good at the time they were programmed, but there were othwer programs that work better (for me). And there are programs that are just not useful anymore today, for example programs related to floppy disks. Of course i also encoutered some programs that caused problems on my system. As an example i can name INIMAINT, that destroyed my desktop completely when i tried to "repair" my ini-files. Bet you also encountered programs that harmed your system in some way.

I think everyone has just 3 caragories: programs to install, programs to not install, programs to maybe install in certain situations.

I guess there are a lot of programs that are doing exactly the same job as calculators or text editors. I know amoung these programs there are some with unique features. but there are also many that do exactly the same job. It might be helpful for everybody to learn from other user's experience which one of them they prefer and why they do so. I am quite sure nobody needs 10 calculators on their harddisk.

and: I realzed you did a great job, testing programs. Often you need some knowledge how to install some programs. this might also be helpful to read in the comments.

Same with restrictions of shareware. Some programs might be great, but without registration not usable at all.
At least it would be good to know, what the restrictions of those programs are, since often registration is not possible anymore or the profram would be to expensive to achieve.

I have no comlete concept in mind, just some basic ideas. Not sure if it's technically possible to add such a function or if the community agrees with my ideas. And maybe it's too much work to add this function.

Mybe a link to www.os2world.com/wiki would also be some idea. The comment function could also be included there of course.

Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 20, 2024, 03:04:06 am
Thanks Andreas.

Maybe I can summarize it as, "there most be a better way to warn the users or give suggestion about each software, but we still need to crack it down".

I will keep thinking about.
- Software comments feedback?
- Software Rating ?
- Use Recommendations?

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Mentore on February 22, 2024, 08:16:22 am
Thanks Andreas.

Maybe I can summarize it as, "there most be a better way to warn the users or give suggestion about each software, but we still need to crack it down".

I will keep thinking about.
- Software comments feedback?
- Software Rating ?
- Use Recommendations?

Regards

Everyone please consider that a huge work on fields like this has been done by the former Team OS/2 Italia with the eCSoft/2 site

https://ecsoft2.org/

The infrastructure is AFAIK maintained by Massimo, which is a fellow user of this forum as well.

I think the topics in the database could be "enhanched" somehow by adding ratings or the like.

Mentore
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 25, 2024, 01:45:58 am
Hello

I'm thinking that /pub/os2/util/wps (http://hobbesarchive.com/?path=%2fpub%2fos2%2futil%2fwps) maybe has too many files. Even that I removed from it the wallpaper changer utilities. (/pub/os2/util/wallpaper)

I'm thinking that it may be slip into:
1) /pub/os2/util/wpsenh (?) - For WPS (GUI) Enhancers
2) /pub/os2/util/???? (?) -  All the "bars", like stuff for WarpCenter, launchpad and new desktop bars. Which is a good name for these ones?
3) /pub/os2/util/wps - For the utilities that register, deregister, classes... and anything else related to WPS.

What do you think, too drastic?
Or maybe just moving the "bars stuff" may be enough?

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Lars on February 25, 2024, 09:27:06 am
"wpsenh" makes no sense as every WPS class enhances the WPS. That is the nature of every WPS class.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: ivan on February 25, 2024, 02:48:06 pm
It appears that you are making it much too complicated to find anything with your reorganisation.  Use the 'keep it simple' idea, that way people can just look through the main division , see what is there and select what they want without needing a deep knowledge of OS/2.  Your system assumes that everyone has a deep knowledge of the inner workings of the OS (I have been using OS/2 since version 1.20 and I would be lost with your system.  Most people using it just want it to work, people just trying it out expect to be just able to select something to try without having to know the inner workings).
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 25, 2024, 06:57:13 pm
Hi Ivan

It appears that you are making it much too complicated to find anything with your reorganisation.  Use the 'keep it simple' idea, that way people can just look through the main division , see what is there and select what they want without needing a deep knowledge of OS/2.  Your system assumes that everyone has a deep knowledge of the inner workings of the OS (I have been using OS/2 since version 1.20 and I would be lost with your system.  Most people using it just want it to work, people just trying it out expect to be just able to select something to try without having to know the inner workings).

Just let me know your suggestions on how to "keep it simple". Just take your time.

Reards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 25, 2024, 07:01:04 pm
Hi Lars.
"wpsenh" makes no sense as every WPS class enhances the WPS. That is the nature of every WPS class.

A Desktop Enhancer is not neccesary a WPS class enhancer. I think Styler does not mess at all with WPS classes. I wanted to make it more focused on "Desktop Enhancers".

For me "/pub/os2/util/wps" means more of software utilities related to WPS (and the GUI), that can replace/affect WPS classes or not. But it is open to discussion.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 25, 2024, 08:03:18 pm
1) /pub/os2/util/wpsenh (?) - For WPS (GUI) Enhancers
If "/pub/os2/util/wpsenh" gets confused with WPS Classes enhacements, what could be a good name for it?
- "/pub/os2/util/guienh" ? or just full "/pub/os2/util/GUIEnhancers", "/pub/os2/util/DeskEnhancers", or just "/pub/os2/util/desktop"?

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: ivan on February 25, 2024, 09:05:45 pm
Hi Martin,

I was thinking of something along the lines of http://www.os2site.com/sw/
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on March 01, 2024, 03:38:52 pm
HobbesArchive.com is down for a while, so does anyone remember the URL for the mirrors of HobbesArchive.com?
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Tom on March 01, 2024, 04:29:23 pm
HobbesArchive.com is down for a while, so does anyone remember the URL for the mirrors of HobbesArchive.com?

Courtesy of the snapshot of hobbesarchive at archive.org:

https://www.os2site.com/mirrors/
http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/pub/hobbes
http://crydee.sai.msu.su/archive/
http://ftpmirror1.infania.net/pub/Hobbes/
http://us01.hobbesarchive.com/
http://de01.hobbesarchive.com/
http://uk01.hobbesarchive.com/
http://br01.hobbesarchive.com/

I haven't checked if all these URL's work.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on March 01, 2024, 05:26:16 pm
Thanks Tom for the links.

HobbesArchive.com is having some power issues and hopefully it will be back on Tuesday so we can have again uploads.

The mirrors are still working:
http://us01.hobbesarchive.com/
http://de01.hobbesarchive.com/
http://uk01.hobbesarchive.com/
http://br01.hobbesarchive.com/

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on March 24, 2024, 02:28:15 am
I hope this is the right thread for this topic.

Hobbes used to have loaddf.zip which had both LOADDSKF.EXE and SAVEDSKF.EXE

Now HobbesArchive has Loaddskf_1-16.zip which claims to have both, but contains only LOADDSKF.EXE
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: David Graser on March 24, 2024, 04:14:42 am
I hope this is the right thread for this topic.

Hobbes used to have loaddf.zip which had both LOADDSKF.EXE and SAVEDSKF.EXE

Now HobbesArchive has Loaddskf_1-16.zip which claims to have both, but contains only LOADDSKF.EXE

This contains both
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on March 24, 2024, 12:08:08 pm
Hi Neil

Yes, this is the right place. I'm fixing it right now.
Thanks for the feedback.

Regards