OS2 World Community Forum

OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - Technical => Hardware => Topic started by: David Graser on February 12, 2018, 09:28:12 am

Title: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: David Graser on February 12, 2018, 09:28:12 am
I took the ArcaOS 5.02 image, using DVD Toys, was able to easily burn the image onto a disk.  This was using an internal DVD writer.

I then tried it using my USB LG DVD writer.  DVD Toys could not find it.  However when I put a data disk into the drive, the drive is recognized easily by the operating system, however, with a blank disk in the USB drive, neither RJS CDWriter or DVD Toys was able to burn the image.

Is this a known issue, not being able to burn to an USB DVD or CD writer?

Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: Lars on February 12, 2018, 02:00:39 pm
Have you tried my USBMSD.ADD instead of the one that AN delivers ?  If not, you could give it a try.
If it still does not work, a trace of USBMSD.ADD would help (it's all explained in the "readusb.txt" file that comes with my package).

In principle the USBMSD.ADD (at least my version) should support SCSI "write" commands for USB DVD/CD drives. It should also support any DVD/CD specific SCSI commands.
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: Valery Sedletski on February 12, 2018, 03:02:09 pm
2David Graser: What is your os2cdrom.dmd version? You need a custom version from Froloff (cdrtools 2.01.01a59, or so), or from latest UDF 2.14-2.16. Older versions of OS2CDROM.DMD may not support ioctl's required to write CD's in packet mode. OS2CDROM.DMD 10.163 works for me.
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on February 12, 2018, 03:33:01 pm
At least for ArcaOS it's a known issue because I kept reminding the team.

I find RSJ reliably writes to USB DVD, so my findings seem different than yours. If you have DVD Toys, you'd need to uninstall at least part of it to allow RSJ to see the drive to burn to it. But RSJ is very old. I find it does not erase media reliably.

So for old machines, DVD Toys is OK, but for new ones, RSJ is the only way. Also, DVD Toys has no DOCUMENTED command line mode, while RSJ has one, so for automation, RSJ is better.

Some of what I wrote is absurd, but accurate. How can a Linux-based command line DVD program not offer command line? Because it's not documented. Someone who knew their way around this could release the right command files and do some minimal documentation. I doubt it would take more than a few hours.

Lars USBMSD.ADD does not make any difference. If I get a chance, I'd set up a trace. I have not tried the custom version from Froloff. Why wouldn't that be packaged by Arca Noae? Because the source code for it is apparently lost.
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: Valery Sedletski on February 12, 2018, 04:47:12 pm
CD/DVD Toys are only a frontend for CDRTools, so you can use CDRECORD directly, so command line mode will be available. So, this is not a problem. No idea why it cannot work for newer machines. It should work the same.

The custom version from Froloff is a bit older that that is offered in UDF package. So, it's better to install the version from UDF.
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: ak120 on February 12, 2018, 05:33:02 pm
CD/DVD Toys are only a frontend for CDRTools, so you can use CDRECORD directly, so command line mode will be available.
Neil wrote about "undocumented" not "unavailable". I don't know how CDRTools and CDRECORD on OS/2 relate to the official cdrtools that are available for dozens of other platforms. Why not simply refer to the proper documentation for the used SPTI? Unfortunately the term "directly" introduces more complications into this topic. Usually libscg is used by cdrtools, the behaviour under OS/2 is at least undocumented or broken from the user's view.

Quote
So, this is not a problem. No idea why it cannot work for newer machines. It should work the same.
As long HBA support for OS/2 is existing there should not too much problems. That should set the limit to 10 year old workstation hardware in real life btw.

Quote
The custom version from Froloff is a bit older that that is offered in UDF package. So, it's better to install the version from UDF.
Does it mean that ArcaOS delivered an outdated or incapable version of OS2DASD.DMD?
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: ivan on February 12, 2018, 06:36:50 pm
Hi David,

The first thing you need to know is the standart scsi device descriptor [bus,]id[,lun] without that you are not likely to get very far.

I have found that writing CD/DVD using a drive letter does not work reliably in OS/2 so I don't use it (depends on which version of OS2CDROM.DMD you use).

Even though I have ArcaOS I have never installed DC/DVD Toys preferring to use the scripts I produced for MKISOFS2, CDRECORD2 and DVDDAO which work with anything I throw at them, even a slim DVD +-RW hanging off a SATA/USB adapter.
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: David Graser on February 12, 2018, 07:33:48 pm
2David Graser: What is your os2cdrom.dmd version? You need a custom version from Froloff (cdrtools 2.01.01a59, or so), or from latest UDF 2.14-2.16. Older versions of OS2CDROM.DMD may not support ioctl's required to write CD's in packet mode. OS2CDROM.DMD 10.163 works for me.

Thanks Valery!  I did an internet search and found the driver,  I installed it with the other 2 packages that the page recommended installing with it.

cdrtools 2.01.01a59
emx0944.exe
aspirb10.zip

Rebooted and started DVD Toys again.  Bingo, this worked like a charm.  This is with ArcaOS 5.02.

Tried RSJ Writer. but it did not work.  It was then I realized that this program probably only works with CDR drives and not DVD writers.

So it appears that without this version, ArcaOS 5.02 cannot install to an USB DVD writer.

Again thanks for all the help from everyone.
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: Valery Sedletski on February 12, 2018, 08:03:12 pm
2Andreas Kohl: I don't know what is undocumented in OS/2 version of cdrtools. It works the same as UNIX versions. AFAIK, it uses libscg too (It wrote a string like "Unofficial libscg transport ..." to the screen when writing CD's) .

Quote
As long HBA support for OS/2 is existing there should not too much problems. That should set the limit to 10 year old workstation hardware in real life btw.

What is HBA?

Quote
 
Quote
    The custom version from Froloff is a bit older that that is offered in UDF package. So, it's better to install the version from UDF.
 

Does it mean that ArcaOS delivered an outdated or incapable version of OS2DASD.DMD?

No, as I checked in my arcaos copy, it has latest OS2CDROM.DMD v. 10.163, the same as supplied with UDF 2.16

2David Graser:
Good that the version from cdrtools 2.01.01.a59 works for you. But v. 10.163 is newer and has more features. Some IOCTL's are missing from Froloff's version. RSJ may not work with it too. And UDF will not work with it, too. Did you checked, which CDRTOOLS version is supplied together with CD/DVD Toys? I'd suspect that this version work well with Froloff's version of OS2CDROM.DMD (because CD/DVD Toys uses Froloff's version of CDRTOOLS), but RSJ needs OS2CDROM.DMD from UDF distribution. This is only a hypothesis. Hm, looking into my version of DVD Toys, I don't see cdrecord in its installation directory. Where does it looks for it, interesting?

Yes, too bad that Nickk/Froloff disappeared both and did not left the sources.
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: Valery Sedletski on February 12, 2018, 08:16:44 pm
2ivan: SCSI descriptors like [bus,]id[,lun] helpful only for SCSI/ATAPI CD writers. They work via DaniS (or DaniATAPI? -- don't remember). For USB CD writers, you'll need OS2CDROM.DMD which works via drive letters, only. Interesting, does OS2AHCI supply a SCSI emulation, like DaniS does? So, SATA-atached writers will work too? Or, how else would SATA writers work? (I don't know as I haven't SATA CD writers)
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: David Graser on February 12, 2018, 09:27:57 pm


No, as I checked in my arcaos copy, it has latest OS2CDROM.DMD v. 10.163, the same as supplied with UDF 2.16

2David Graser:
Good that the version from cdrtools 2.01.01.a59 works for you. But v. 10.163 is newer and has more features. Some IOCTL's are missing from Froloff's version. RSJ may not work with it too. And UDF will not work with it, too. Did you checked, which CDRTOOLS version is supplied together with CD/DVD Toys? I'd suspect that this version work well with Froloff's version of OS2CDROM.DMD (because CD/DVD Toys uses Froloff's version of CDRTOOLS), but RSJ needs OS2CDROM.DMD from UDF distribution. This is only a hypothesis. Hm, looking into my version of DVD Toys, I don't see cdrecord in its installation directory. Where does it looks for it, interesting?

Yes, too bad that Nickk/Froloff disappeared both and did not left the sources.
[/quote]

Given a choice between the newer version or the earlier version, at this moment I have go with the earlier version.  I want USB writer capability.

Can Froloff's driver be disassembled to possibly see what he added or changed?
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: Dave Yeo on February 12, 2018, 09:34:25 pm
ArcaOS installs cdrecord in @UNIXROOT\usr\bin and running cdrecord --help will output all the commands.
It is
Quote
Cdrecord-ProDVD-ProBD 3.01 (i386-pc-os2-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2015 Joerg Schilling

Cdrecord is/was officially supported by Joerg, at least with building with old toolchain and EMX. Note that Joerg started selling DVD support at one point and changed the license. The Linux folks forked the last GPL version.
I think OS2AHCI supports a SCSI emulation layer and works with AHCI connected drives.
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on February 12, 2018, 10:38:36 pm

Tried RSJ Writer. but it did not work.  It was then I realized that this program probably only works with CDR drives and not DVD writers.


RSJ runs fine with USB DVD writers. It does not run well if DVD-Toys is installed. I don't know why. There are some interesting theories put forward in this thread. The reason newer hardware, that is hardware without a built-in DVD, needs RSJ is that USB support is broken in DVD toys. This support could be included in ArcaOS, but it is not.

The need for DVD support just got a lot less compelling now that ArcaOS can boot from USB stick.
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: Valery Sedletski on February 12, 2018, 10:42:39 pm
2David Graser:

Quote
Given a choice between the newer version or the earlier version, at this moment I have go with the earlier version.  I want USB writer capability.

USB writers work with Froloff's cdrecord and OS2CDROM.DMD 10.163 on my machine. Did not tried CD/DVD Toys with it, though. I use CDRECORD directly from command line.

Quote
Can Froloff's driver be disassembled to possibly see what he added or changed?

I don't know. If someone has time and skills -- maybe.

2 Dave Yeo:

Quote
Cdrecord-ProDVD-ProBD 3.01 (i386-pc-os2-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2015 Joerg Schilling

Where did you took 3.01? Is this available from ArcaNoae repositories only? Access to non-arca users is closed?
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: Dave Yeo on February 12, 2018, 11:49:13 pm
2 Dave Yeo:

Quote
Cdrecord-ProDVD-ProBD 3.01 (i386-pc-os2-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2015 Joerg Schilling

Where did you took 3.01? Is this available from ArcaNoae repositories only? Access to non-arca users is closed?

It is on the ISO, here, J:\CID\SERVER\RPM\LOCALREP\cdrtools-3.01.1-1.oc00.i386.rpm on a recent beta version.
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: David Graser on February 13, 2018, 05:54:38 am
2 Dave Yeo:

Quote
Cdrecord-ProDVD-ProBD 3.01 (i386-pc-os2-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2015 Joerg Schilling

Where did you took 3.01? Is this available from ArcaNoae repositories only? Access to non-arca users is closed?
It is on the ISO, here, J:\CID\SERVER\RPM\LOCALREP\cdrtools-3.01.1-1.oc00.i386.rpm on a recent beta version.

Thanks Dave for the info. 

Found it on the disk and installed it. 

To begin, I tested it with DVD Toys.  The USB device was now recognized,  whereas, with the ArcaOS 5.02 driver it was not.  I tried to unpack the iso to the writer, but it was not allowed.  It gave me an error message about the CDR Tools not being compiled by Froloff, it was not safe to proceed and would not let me go any further.

Next, I tried it with RSJ writer.  As Neil stated earlier, RSJ cannot find the writer when DVD Toys is installed.  Uninstalled DVD Toys and tried RSJ again.  Sure enough, the USB DVD writer was recognized and worked as it should. 

Note: this is with cdrtools-3.01.1-1.oc00.i386.rpm installed.  Neil is right.  RSJ cannot find the drive so long as DVD Toys is installed.  I now believe, RSJ may have worked with the drivers that came with ArcaOS 5.02. DVD Toys would not let it recognize the drive.  It will require me to install 5.02 again to test.

OK I reinstalled Arca0s 5.02 and installed just RSJ writer.  The USB writer worked fine with the drivers included with version 5.02. Update:  I was mistaken.  The driver appears to work with RSJ, but when finished nothing is written to the DVD.  It is bank.  Did this several times.  So one diffinitely needs the cdrtools-3.01.1-1.oc00.i386.rpm for USB to work properly.

There was one other difference I noted.  DVD Toys was unable to see the USB drive with the driver that came with version 5.02.   With cdrtools-3.01.1-1.oc00.i386, DVD Toys was able to see the USB drive, but would not allow one to use it due to the above reason stated.  It seems to me, somehow adding that this driver was compiled by Froloff and DVD Toys may work with this program.  Now if one could only figure out why RSJ writer will not work with DVD Toys installed.
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: Lars on February 13, 2018, 10:25:43 am
1) so, USBMSD.ADD seems to do its job and can therefore be ruled out

2) cdrecord needs a DVD/CD writer device to appear as an SCSI device. That typically requires 2 drivers:
    a) OS2ASPI.DMD (/ALL) which comes with OS/2
    b) a proprietary router driver that routes to OS2ASPI.DMD, normally that would be ASPIROUT.SYS from Paul Ratcliffe. Also there is aspinikk.sys (or something like that) that does about the same. However, for
reasons yet unknown the later sometimes fails to load on bootup (at least on my system).

3) I seem to remember that at least DANIATAP.FLT had a switch /RSJ that would make visible a DCD/CD-ROM drive that would otherwise be claimed exclusively by RSJ (at least while writing). But DANIATAP.FLT does not come into play for USB attached DVD/CD-ROM drives (is DANIATAP.FLT still necessary for CD-ROM/DVD drives attached via AHCI ?).


Lars
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: Valery Sedletski on February 13, 2018, 11:06:08 am
2Lars:

aspinkk.sys, which works fine on mys system. Why it could not load? Never seen this. "/RSJ" switch -- I never used it. Just commenting the lockcdr.flt out, with adding the set to config.sys like "SET CDR_DEVICE_NAME1=DVD_RW ND-3500AG" does the job. And finally, you'll need to add a line to cddrv.inf file, describing your CD-writer:

Quote
_NEC       "DVD_RW ND-3500AG"  N/A    "_NEC    DVD_RW ND-3500AG" N/A                      cdatapi   ATAPI      CUESHEET     N/A

So that, now RSJ does not lock the CDR, and does not detect it each time on boot. Instead, it uses description from cddrv.inf, pointed by "SET" in config.sys.

Regarding DANIATAPI, it seems to be not needed with newer Danis506.add (it includes DaniATAPI.flt). OS2AHCI.ADD seems to be including the same functionality, too. (Though, I never tried AHCI-attached CD-writers, as I haven't them).

USB CD writers only work via a drive letters. They cannot work via SCSI emulation. (I have an USB CD/DVD and USB BD writer)

2Dave Yeo: Indeed, I see CDRTOOLS 3.01 in arcanoae yum repository I have configured. It is available for download without any password. Strange, but good. :)
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: Valery Sedletski on February 13, 2018, 11:16:50 am
2David Graser: Yes, it looks like DVD/CD Toys installs Froloff's version of OS2CDROM.DMD. And RSJ does not work with it. You can try install DVD Toys, and restore the original OS2CDROPM.DMD 10.163 which was installed before. It seems to be overwritten by DVD Toys. Maybe they will work after that.
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: ak120 on February 13, 2018, 06:50:52 pm
2Andreas Kohl: I don't know what is undocumented in OS/2 version of cdrtools. It works the same as UNIX versions. AFAIK, it uses libscg too (It wrote a string like "Unofficial libscg transport ..." to the screen when writing CD's) .
If it would use libscg properly, no warning text should be displayed. I'm using cdrecord for different Unices and even there the transport mechanisms can differ. And "unofficial" means undocumented resulting unreliable behaviour.

Quote
What is HBA?
Host bus adapter (Хост-адаптер шины) should be common term in storage topics, at least for the Intel world.

Quote
No, as I checked in my arcaos copy, it has latest OS2CDROM.DMD v. 10.163, the same as supplied with UDF 2.16
The doc of  froloff cdrtools build (and also RSJ V6) recommends to use at least OS2CDROM.DMD 10.157. Later versions of cdrecord can also deal to some degree with UDF.
So it seems the ALPHA cdrtools fork shipped via ArcaNoae RPM is using a different approach. And the contained text file doesn't match with the output from:
Code: [Select]
cdrecord dev=help
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: Rich Walsh on February 14, 2018, 01:48:25 am
Using a USB CD/DVD writer with AOS made simple...
You're done.

FYI... I tested this by burning an ISO to a CD. Whether it works for anything else remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: Valery Sedletski on February 15, 2018, 04:58:18 am
2Rich Walsh: This works not only with arcaos, but with any OS/2 version. Also, arcanoae yum repository contains newer CDRTOOLS version, 3.01. Why it is not working for you?

2Andreas Kohl:

Quote
If it would use libscg properly, no warning text should be displayed. I'm using cdrecord for different Unices and even there the transport mechanisms can differ. And "unofficial" means undocumented resulting unreliable behaviour.

Warning is just because this libscg transport is unknown to CDRTOOLS build system. Unofficial means that Nickk and Froloff did not inform Joerg Schilling about the backend they wrote. It was tested many times by many people.

Quote
So it seems the ALPHA cdrtools fork shipped via ArcaNoae RPM is using a different approach. And the contained text file doesn't match with the output from:

Code: [Select]
cdrecord dev=help

Yes, they are different. Probably, arca did their own port from scratch, because Nick and Froloff did not published their patches.
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on February 18, 2018, 05:03:35 am
Even with Rich Walsh's cdrecord, burning ISO to USB DVD causes an error. I appreciate that I could probably fool around with this until it worked, but I'm too lazy. It looks like it's going to work, the drive is recognized, but it doesn't take long to fail.

Also, the command line processing for mkisofs2.exe differ from mkisofs.exe, so my scripts don't work.

Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: Eugene Gorbunoff on February 18, 2018, 02:33:17 pm

To use USB DVD writer,

install Full DVD Toys + old cdrtools (from the site of DVD Toys)
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: Rich Walsh on February 18, 2018, 07:47:37 pm
Even with Rich Walsh's cdrecord, burning ISO to USB DVD causes an error.
To use USB DVD writer, install Full DVD Toys + old cdrtools (from the site of DVD Toys)

The version of cdrecord I posted was taken from the "old cdrtools" posted on the eCoSoft web site.

Unless DVD Toys uses some magic commandline option that the AOS version doesn't, then the full-featured version is also likely to fail on Neil's system.
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: David Graser on February 18, 2018, 09:19:05 pm
Even with Rich Walsh's cdrecord, burning ISO to USB DVD causes an error.
To use USB DVD writer, install Full DVD Toys + old cdrtools (from the site of DVD Toys)

The version of cdrecord I posted was taken from the "old cdrtools" posted on the eCoSoft web site.

Unless DVD Toys uses some magic commandline option that the AOS version doesn't, then the full-featured version is also likely to fail on Neil's system.

I believe Neil is referring to burning DVDs with RSJ writer.  As stated earlier in the post, problems occur with both DVD Toys and RSJ writer installed on the same system.  Using the old cdrtools,  DVD Toys has no problem burning, but won't work with the cdtool.exe that comes with ArcaOS.  Now go to RSJ Writer and the writer cannot find (at least in my case) the USB DVD writer.

I must tell everyone that I like using DVD Toys,  It has a polished up to date up look and it made burning the iso so easy.  I have both programs, but will continue to use Toys from now on.  I assume that DVD Tools can do everything that RSJ writer can do.

Froloff in his documentation said he would send to anyone his code changes if requested.  However, I could be mistaken, but the impression I get is that he has disappeared off the map.
Title: Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
Post by: Dave Yeo on February 18, 2018, 09:53:43 pm
Froloff in his documentation said he would send to anyone his code changes if requested.  However, I could be mistaken, but the impression I get is that he has disappeared off the map.

That's a problem as the license (GPL for older cdrecord, not sure about this version as Schilling changed the license at one point)  may say no distribution without the source, or an offer of the source. Probably no one will ever complain but it is for reasons such as this that source (or patches) should be distributed with the binary or put somewhere public.