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WebSite Information => Article Discussions => Topic started by: Martin Iturbide on June 19, 2015, 05:21:39 am

Title: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 19, 2015, 05:21:39 am
Hi

There seems to be some necessity for the community to express what should be the software priorities on the OS2-eCS platform. But I know that many will jump to say "DRIVERS !!" and I don't want to discuss that this time, since I think that we need to see what Arca Noae will deliver on the future.

So, the question to brainstorm is "Which are the platform software priorities excluding drivers?".

There was some old 2014 discussion summary here (http://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php/Warp_Wish_List_2014), but you are all free to discuss what should be a priority.

Regards
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: mwizard on June 19, 2015, 05:43:12 am
Are there any finance programs supported for OS/2?  We have a couple of old programs like ETeller out there.  But I'm not sure the authors are around anymore.

I wouldn't mind an investment analysis program too.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: Dave Yeo on June 19, 2015, 07:04:51 am
My priorities are having a decent browser and good multimedia (especially video) support.
So I've learned that I'm not a programmer but can still learn enough that I'm posting this with OS/2 SeaMonkey 2.28 (currently probably the only one in the world) and regularly test FFmpeg and even libav, including contributing my test results back upstream so they don't remove us. (fate.ffmpeg.org (http://fate.ffmpeg.org) and fate.libav.org (http://fate.libav.org) and do the odd fix. These are the bases of most of our (and most other open source)  multimedia support.
Even us non-programmers can work to have software working on our platform of choice.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: Mentore on June 19, 2015, 09:15:45 am
My priorities are having a decent browser and good multimedia (especially video) support.
So I've learned that I'm not a programmer but can still learn enough that I'm posting this with OS/2 SeaMonkey 2.28 (currently probably the only one in the world) and regularly test FFmpeg and even libav, including contributing my test results back upstream so they don't remove us. (fate.ffmpeg.org (http://fate.ffmpeg.org) and fate.libav.org (http://fate.libav.org) and do the odd fix. These are the bases of most of our (and most other open source)  multimedia support.
Even us non-programmers can work to have software working on our platform of choice.

I completely second what Dave is saying, adding music software to the list.

Mentore
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: Per E. Johannessen on June 19, 2015, 03:47:08 pm
I'd like to have a newer SeaMonkey version that can handle e-mail attachments without crashing.
Updated ODBC-drivers and a tool for simple editing of pdf's, (adding text, not annotations.).
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: OS4User on June 19, 2015, 08:38:19 pm
My priorities are having a decent browser and good multimedia (especially video) support.

+1
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: Jan-Erik Lärka on June 20, 2015, 03:31:07 pm
Updated UnixODBC Manager (with appropriate drivers) with the QT4 GUI
Good multimedia support (Integrate mplayer/ffmpeg to enhance MMOS2)
Web Browser

Regarding editing PDF's... it would be possible if someone would compile the OpenOffice plugin that allow us to edit PDF's

Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: Roderick Klein on June 20, 2015, 11:10:51 pm
Gregg Young gave a presentation at Warpstock Europe about his updated for MMOS/2 such a new MMIO MP3 codec he updated. And he was working/looking ffmpeg integration with MMOS/2 I think.

That reminds me I need to still upload the Warpstock Europe 2015 presentations.

Roderick Klein
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 23, 2015, 03:15:26 pm
Thanks for sharing.

My non-driver software request will be to try to bring more love to the OS/2 GUI.
I wrote this article on 2011 (http://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php/Comments_and_Suggestions_about_eComStation_User_Experience), someone liked it, other not, but I think it is time to improve the GUI and try to revive XWorkplace.

Revive XWorkplace means to put more functionality and more GUI improvements on it, it does not mean only bugfixing. 

Regards
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: Mentore on June 23, 2015, 03:32:14 pm
Thanks for sharing.

My non-driver software request will be to try to bring more love to the OS/2 GUI.
I wrote this article on 2011 (http://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php/Comments_and_Suggestions_about_eComStation_User_Experience), someone liked it, other not, but I think it is time to improve the GUI and try to revive XWorkplace.

Revive XWorkplace means to put more functionality and more GUI improvements on it, it does not mean only bugfixing. 

Regards

I remember something similar to a flamewar when the discussion went on what "improve the GUI" means. I have to say I'm kind of an "old man" person, and must say I like the OS/2 standard WPS. Actually I'm sure that the object-oriented approach could still be a selling point, rather than its visuals. That said, maybe a little restyling could be useful, but still - I kinda prefer performances over appearance. Mind you, I usually deactivate rounded windows also in Windows and Linux...
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: Eugene Gorbunoff on June 23, 2015, 04:44:12 pm

* the article doesn't mention Piano Launchpad

* eCo Software is working on new WPS Copy/Move dialog
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 23, 2015, 05:33:51 pm
Hi.

I remember some of the flamewars, in general terms people are scared to any change, no matter if is a proposed change, a real change, a bad change or even if it is change that it will be good for them but they haven't read about it :)

Like someone told me some time ago, the idea is to have "options" to have a way to configure things and customize it the way you like it. It does not mean to break how thing are working, but to have the option to enable a checkbox to have that functionality. So, if there is are people that likes how the windows works on WPS, it will remain the same. For example, I don't think that XWorkplace changes dramatically the OS/2 WPS Warp 4 experience, it only adds more options to the one that wants it.

But for example, I wrote about on "Recommendation #3 – GUI – The Navigator (http://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php/Comments_and_Suggestions_about_eComStation_User_Experience#Recommendation_.233_.E2.80.93_GUI_.E2.80.93_The_Navigator.)." I think that what I call "the Navigator" (to not call it file explorer) is now the default way to surf files of a PC OS. It can be interesting to have the option to manage the OS windows that way too, like we have the "tree view" or the "details view". (not exclusively, only the option for the on who likes it that way).

Plus there are many other good GUI ideas on other OSes that are not invasive, that it should do no harm to try to put them on OS2-eCS.

Regards.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: Eugene Gorbunoff on June 24, 2015, 01:18:53 am

* The article doesn't mention Piano Launchpad

* WPS Copy/Move project is under construction. We should find the investors.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 24, 2015, 04:27:17 am
Hi Eugene.

Like we discussed on the past I'm only interested on open source software.
Maybe you can put on other thread that you are looking for investors and how much money do you require to make "WPS Copy/Move project" open source.

Regards.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: Alex Taylor on June 24, 2015, 12:51:26 pm
I wrote my own proposal for a UI development plan in 2012, which references some of Martin's ideas.

http://www.altsan.org/os2/eComStation_UI_2012.pdf
http://www.altsan.org/os2/eComStation_UI_2012.odt
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: Jan-Erik Lärka on June 24, 2015, 02:37:14 pm
Ohhh, ooRexx from the OS/2 sources of course

I like your suggestions to improve the wps. :D
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: HDRW on June 25, 2015, 12:34:14 pm
Hello - first post here so let me introduce myself:  my name is Howard Winter and I have been an avid user of OS/2 since Warp 3, I've been the UK Reseller of eComStation for some years, and I've recently joined Arca Noae LLC, dealing with third party relations.

Most of what I post here will be my own thoughts and opinions, not official Arca Noae statements, but if I do post the latter I will make it clear.  I will answer questions where I can, but most of what I will be able to say is on the Arca Noae web site already.  I'm new - please be gentle with me!   :)

I've read through Martin's and Alex's documents on the OS/2 User Interface - thank you both for all the hard work in doing this.  There's a lot to think about there, and I agree with some - most - of it.  I have to say that I can't get too agitated about the non-clean boot process - since 99% of the time the system isn't booting, I don't feel it's a high priority item, and compared with booting a Raspberry Pi, which scrolls hundreds of lines of illegible command line output during booting, "ours" is pretty tame!

To Martin's "Navigator" idea, and Alex's suggestions on that topic, I can give my full support as I feel it's an area that Windows has been better than OS/2 for a long time - maybe the only item like this!  Having the "tree" on the left and the selected item expanded on the right is so much more useful than any other way of doing it that I can't work out why it hasn't been done a long time ago.  On Windows I do sometimes find I have a lot of things expanded in the tree which makes it awkward to find your way up and down, and a single "Collapse All" button (equivalent to pressing all the "-" boxes) would be useful.  And if the same "Navigator" was the standard format for Open / Save / Save As functions within applications, that would be excellent.

I really like the idea of configurable "Favourites" in the tree display, but perhaps with the option to have a single heading with the actual favourites inside, as my list of favourites would probably be too long to be displayed permanently, and having it subject to the "Collapse All" function would be good.

I think it's a shame that Wide Screen displays have become the fashion - they're great for watching films, but not for office type functions such as dealing with letters and spreadsheets, or editing programs, where Portrait orientation is usually the best choice, so Alex's idea of having the "bar" - whatever it will be called - dockable at the side to free up vertical space is a good one, although some items such as the historical CPU usage graph don't do well when vertical.

Scalable Icons on the desktop is another "must have" with modern equipment - trying to use a 1920 pixel-wide laptop screen can be painful when the icons and text are so tiny.

One thing that I don't think is in ether set of ideas (correct me if I missed it!) is on the desktop itself, the absence of an "align to grid" function - my desktops end up looking a mess because all the icons are placed "freehand" and it would be really useful to have a definable "grid" and the ability to align all icons to it with a single click, or to place them on it individually (say drag/drop alone for free-form placement, the same with <Ctrl> to align with the closest grid-point).  The existing automatic placement options which put icons in arbtrary, but aligned positions ("From Top" etc) are useless IMHO - I want to decide where each icon goes on the screen, but with the micro-position nudged so things line up.  Trying to use "Selected Horizontal" etc. usually results in a frustrating exercise of trying to get it to do what I want, and failing!

I think that's enough for my "Maiden Speech" - thanks for your attention!

Cheers,
Howard Winter
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: dbanet on June 25, 2015, 02:27:17 pm
Howard,

Assuming you have got XWP installed, to enable automatic grid icon snapping, please open Desktop Properties notebook (press Alt-Shift-Tab to switch to the Desktop, then press Control-Shift-S to open the Properties notebook), then select the second page (Icon View) of the View tab of the Desktop Properties notebook. Then, from the Layout controls group, please choose the Gridded radio button. You can then adjust the icons spacing using the Icon Spacing... button (90 by 90 works quite well). You can then close the Desktop Properties notebook.

Now ensure that your Desktop is in the Icon View mode, and that the As placed mode is currently selected.

Regards.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: HDRW on June 25, 2015, 06:13:36 pm
Boris,
Thanks for that - that's my "You learn something every day" item for today!

I may have found it before (it's well hidden!) and because as soon as you click on "Gridded" all the icons suddenly move around to random positions, and they do so again when you change the grid parameters, I may have abandoned it as too unpredictable.

It certainly takes a while to get everything as I want - I just hope everything now stays where I put it!

I still think having the option on every move of an icon to place it anywhere, or to snap to the nearest grid location, would be very useful.  As would a "Save" function to enable a later "Restore" of the positions of everything if I get it badly wrong.

Thanks again,
Howard Winter
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: dbanet on June 26, 2015, 06:37:43 am
I still think having the option on every move of an icon to place it anywhere, or to snap to the nearest grid location, would be very useful.  As would a "Save" function to enable a later "Restore" of the positions of everything if I get it badly wrong.

Howard,

That is either implemented. Assuming you have got the Layout setting in the Icon View Desktop Properties notebook page set to As placed, and the Add "Snap to grid" check box from the General view settings (first page of the View tab of Desktop Properties notebook) checked, to align a given object or a set of objects on the desktop accordingly to the grid, you can kindly select it (or them), then invoke the Snap to grid item of the Desktop context menu, which is accessible via a right-click on free Desktop space.

Regards.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: HDRW on June 26, 2015, 03:30:55 pm
Boris,

Thank you for your help, but I may be using a different desktop from what you are expecting (I have no idea what it's called or its version, but it's the default one that eCS 2.0 installs).

The "General View Settings" (page 1 of View) has nothing relating to Grid on it - the only options are "Show full path in folder title" (with "Keep original title" as a further option), "React to folder hot keys", and "Display status bar", which is greyed-out.

If I click in "As Placed" on page 2, the screen redraws with all the icons lined up as in "From Top" arrangement, all jumbled up in their positions.  Luckily it reverts to how I had it when I click "Gridded" again.

Cheers,
Howard
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Non-Driver Software Priorities for the Platform.
Post by: dbanet on June 26, 2015, 04:02:08 pm
Howard,

This is most probably due to that instead of XWorkplace you have got eWorkplace installed, which is a cutted version of the former, and is shipped with eComStation. You may consider uninstalling eWorkplace in favor of XWorkplace (http://xworkplace.netlabs.org).

Regards.