OS2 World Community Forum

OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - Technical => Web applications => Topic started by: Dariusz Piatkowski on September 19, 2020, 03:50:13 pm

Title: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: Dariusz Piatkowski on September 19, 2020, 03:50:13 pm
I suppose this was inevitable, but I'm now starting to see consistent behaviour with multiple sites that no longer render in our FF 45.x browser.

Things were never smooth sailing in the past, but at least the previous symptoms were more of a nuisance as opposed to just a flat-out stop.

So here is the thing: before I completely decide that certain browser traffic must go on another device, can you guys concurr that you are seeing similar problem on one of these sites?

Take someting like https://www.linkedin.com. This was fine in the past, SLOOOWWW for sure, but between NoScript and uBlock I managed. Well, today that is no longer the case. When attempting to visit that site I simply get the traveling timer bar, but nothing else ever happens.

Make no mistake though, it is not like the browser isn't doing anything, the CPU cores spikes, I literally get 100% utilization showing, FF eventually becomes fairly non-responsive.

So I took a stab at this to try to at least figure out where the proble lies (heck, I thought maybe one of my addons is the culprit - it isn't as I tried this very same thing with a blank profile, same result). I relied on the FF built-in Performance monitor, did some capture and came away with some results, which is what I'd like to share.

Basically, it appears that our FF's Graphics engine/function goes into some serious effort and yet nothing is produced.

For those of you who may be more familiar with the FF inner-workings, does what you see in the attached screen capture make any sense?

Thanks!
-Dariusz
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: roberto on September 19, 2020, 04:14:20 pm
I have seen problems similar to what you mention, with the Seamonkey, processors on top, the system dying. What version do you use of Arcaos, and the config.sys and the swappath, what do you have?

With arca505 I have had 40 or 50 websites open, now with arca506 I can only open 8 or 10 websites
Saludos
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: Dariusz Piatkowski on September 19, 2020, 04:21:18 pm
Hi roberto!

...What version do you use of Arcaos, and the config.sys and the swappath, what do you have?...

Not even AOS. This is my 4.52 SMP machine...yes, it's got some upgrades (kernel, etc.) but otherwise this is the original OS/2 box with all the applicable fixpaks. All in all, a solid box with some nuanced SMP/SNAP issues.
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: roberto on September 19, 2020, 06:23:57 pm
You can try this:
SWAPPATH=C:\OS2\SYSTEM 311289 311289
It is very experimental, and it can cause problems.
But for me it is one of the best values. Although the uniaud sound fails a bit and I have to move the mouse to recover the sound.
With other values ​​the uniaud works fine, but other things don't.
saludos
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: Pete on September 20, 2020, 01:00:30 am
Hi Dariusz

Just tried https://www.linkedin.com/ com with Seamonkey/2.42.9esr (1 of Daves builds, - O2 in about:buildconfig) and the site loads fine with javascript enabled in NoScript. I do not have uBlock installed.


Regards

Pete
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: Dave Yeo on September 20, 2020, 01:26:19 am
Hi Pete, did you log in? Here it works until logging in.
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: Pete on September 20, 2020, 02:15:18 am
Hi Dave

No, no login at that site.


Regards

Pete
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: mauro on September 20, 2020, 11:34:41 am
Hi Pete, did you log in? Here it works until logging in.

same in my FF 45.9
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: David McKenna on September 20, 2020, 06:16:36 pm
 Hi Dariusz,

  Any chance you are using a 'hosts' file that may be interfering with LinkedIn?

Regards,
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: Dariusz Piatkowski on September 21, 2020, 05:01:23 am
Hi David,

Hi Dariusz,

  Any chance you are using a 'hosts' file that may be interfering with LinkedIn?

Regards,

Yeah, I thought about that as well. Checked, re-tried with couple of the entries commented out, no change.

I have a LOG of FF about:config changes I make, so I'll go back and see if something there screwed things up. It wasn't so long ago that I was able to log-in, although the site would completely peg the CPU cores to the max.

Thanks for the feedback you guys. If I come across a root cause I'll report-back!

Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: roberto on September 22, 2020, 10:24:35 pm
It gives me the feeling that the problem is THREADS = 3072
Max. 4095

The Thesseus4.01, show me
008A   13B0   FE3BFD20         1     001D   THESEUS4
34 processes with 187 threads were found.

With 1024 in the config.sys it is clearly insufficient.
The BS-info shows me about 240 threads, counting the lines.
But everything works better with 3072
It will not be that somewhere those threads are multiplied or tripled.
Saludos
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: roberto on September 22, 2020, 10:31:56 pm
I forgot, if someone wants to try:
REM SET KAI_AUTOMODE=DART
SET KAI_AUTOMODE=UNIAUD
I would say it works 99% ok
Saludos
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: Dave Yeo on September 23, 2020, 01:47:54 am
Hi Roberto, the KAI_AUTOMODE really depends on your hardware, some works best one way and some the other way. The maximum setting for THREADS I believe is 1024, 3072 is max for VIRTUALADDRESSLIMIT. With THREADS, the lower, the less memory is used.
@Dariusz, you could try a new profile but the odds are that they've moved to some JavaScript that our old browser just doesn't support. It's now a Microsoft owned site and they want you to use Edge. Same thing with Github, lots of stuff doesn't even display anymore, and it is also owned by Microsoft.
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: ivan on September 23, 2020, 02:04:47 am
Hi Dave,

As far as I remember from Warp 3 days the max setting for THREADS was 4095, I assume it is the same for Warp 4 but that is only an assumption.
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: Dave Yeo on September 23, 2020, 02:53:44 am
Hi Ivan, you might be right. Hmm, http://www.edm2.com/index.php/CONFIG.SYS_-_Commands#THREADS (http://www.edm2.com/index.php/CONFIG.SYS_-_Commands#THREADS) agrees with you.
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: mauro on September 23, 2020, 02:04:01 pm
just for giving feedback, mi FF 45.9 situation in browsing Linkedin after login does not change, progress bar keeps searching without opening anything, and whole system get much less responsive.
This also after adding both THREADS=3072  and SET KAI_AUTOMODE=UNIAUD lines in config.sys
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: roberto on September 23, 2020, 07:40:06 pm
Hello Mauro
I would distinguish two problems, one would be not being able to open the linkedin website,
 I cannot open it either. I understand that this is a specific problem with a page with Adobe ...
 The other problem I had was that the processors were going full and the Seamonke 2-42-9EXP3
 collapsed.
 It may be that your system becomes less responsive, but I think it may be because
 I run arcaos on a real-pc, and you on a virtual machine.
 It occurs to me that if you completely remove the swapper it is possible that in a virtualization
 it works better, why put 2048 2048 on it?
 This I have not tried and I do not know the consequences.
saludos
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: Dave Yeo on September 23, 2020, 10:09:08 pm
Hi Roberto, check out http://www.edm2.com/index.php/CONFIG.SYS_-_Commands#MEMMAN (http://www.edm2.com/index.php/CONFIG.SYS_-_Commands#MEMMAN)
The advice is old so with modern machines with 2GB+ of memory, going with NOSWAP is usually fine. Removing PROTECT will break DOS and WINOS2 so only remove it if you care.
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: Dave Yeo on September 23, 2020, 10:10:36 pm
Looking at https://validator.w3.org/nu/?useragent=Validator.nu%2FLV+http%3A%2F%2Fvalidator.w3.org%2Fservices&acceptlanguage=&doc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2F (https://validator.w3.org/nu/?useragent=Validator.nu%2FLV+http%3A%2F%2Fvalidator.w3.org%2Fservices&acceptlanguage=&doc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2F) and the error console, linkedin just seems broken. Perhaps they'll fix it.
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: Roderick Klein on September 24, 2020, 12:22:16 am
Hi Roberto, the KAI_AUTOMODE really depends on your hardware, some works best one way and some the other way. The maximum setting for THREADS I believe is 1024, 3072 is max for VIRTUALADDRESSLIMIT. With THREADS, the lower, the less memory is used.
@Dariusz, you could try a new profile but the odds are that they've moved to some JavaScript that our old browser just doesn't support. It's now a Microsoft owned site and they want you to use Edge. Same thing with Github, lots of stuff doesn't even display anymore, and it is also owned by Microsoft.

Just a head ups... Guess what Microsoft Edge is using under the bonnet, the same browser engine as the upcoming new browser from BWW.
The
I have a alpha version running here of the web browser... Its getting along, but not yet ready for prime time demo.
Websites like github are working. 

And I do not think the Github and Linkedin are not working because there are Microsoft websites.
Its simply that dispite your efforts to try and keep the current builds of Firefox 45 and Seamonkey alive I am just afraid more and more websites as webdevelopers update code will start to fall over...

Check www.9292ov.nl. That website in some cases no longer loaded. Mijn.ing.nl has started to work inreliable (after logging into my bank account).
All of these Dutch websites have started using webstandards the Firefox 45 sadly no longer supports.
The Dutch goverment digital indentity system Digid with 2 way authentication is also kaput...

Roderick
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: Dave Yeo on September 24, 2020, 08:03:57 am
Well parts of the web engine, Blink, are BSD licensed and V8, the JavaScript engine is pure BSD, we don't really know what changes Microsoft has made, and likewise with Google and Chrome though Google may be more motivated to keep it as compatible with Chromium as possible. Microsoft is harder for me to trust.
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: mauro on September 24, 2020, 12:52:32 pm
Hello Mauro
I would distinguish two problems, one would be not being able to open the linkedin website,
 I cannot open it either. I understand that this is a specific problem with a page with Adobe ...
 The other problem I had was that the processors were going full and the Seamonke 2-42-9EXP3
 collapsed.
 It may be that your system becomes less responsive, but I think it may be because
 I run arcaos on a real-pc, and you on a virtual machine.
 It occurs to me that if you completely remove the swapper it is possible that in a virtualization
 it works better, why put 2048 2048 on it?
 This I have not tried and I do not know the consequences.
saludos

understand, thank you.

confirm that putting MEMMAN=NOSWAP in config.sys (assume don't need to rem the following SWAPPATH line) make applications run faster in my OS2 W4.52 VirtualBox machine, working on 2 Gb of RAM, even while FF is opened with four pages running also including the "nowhere" linkedin research.

I've also casually discovered a funny conflict bug: if FF is running, then I cannot open any of the Staroffice 5.1 applications, just nothing happens after the execution. On the other side, if I try to open FF meantime a Staroffice 5.1 application is running, I get a faulty module error warning, as shown in the image below
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: roberto on September 24, 2020, 02:44:46 pm
Result of error 8, it is consistent with what you do.

[C:\]HELP SYS0008

SYS0008: There is not enough memory available to process this command.
All available memory is in use.

EXPLANATION: If segment swapping is active, the swap file may be full
or an input/output (I/O) error may have occurred on the auxiliary
storage device that contains the swap file.

ACTION: Do one of the following and then retry the command:
o  Reduce the number of running programs.
o  Reduce the value of the BUFFERS=, TRACEBUF=, DISKCACHE=, THREADS=,
   RMSIZE=, or DEVICE=VDISK.SYS statement in the CONFIG.SYS file and
   then restart the system.
o  Remove unwanted files from the swap file disk and restart the system.
o  Install additional memory on your system.
o  Check the swap file disk for an I/O error.

I have a question, if you run with the swapper active, can you open firefox and Startoffice simultaneously?

Saludos
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: mauro on September 24, 2020, 03:09:01 pm
Result of error 8, it is consistent with what you do.

[C:\]HELP SYS0008

SYS0008: There is not enough memory available to process this command.
All available memory is in use.
.......................................................
I have a question, if you run with the swapper active, can you open firefox and Startoffice simultaneously?

Saludos

No, same issue also once returned to previous config.sys values which were

MEMMAN=SWAP,PROTECT
THREADS=1024

haven't made tests yet in modifying the other config.sys statements , would you eventually suggest the related values to try with?
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: roberto on September 24, 2020, 07:09:57 pm
Thanks for your test.
By testing you can test many things.
I don't know if you have sound through virtualization.
 You can try this:
REM SET KAI_AUTOMODE=DART
SET KAI_AUTOMODE=UNIAUD

DEVINFO=SCR,VGA,C:\OS2\BOOT\VIOTBL.DCP      **Put this line -before- devinfo=KBD,SP,...
 If you want you can change VGA for "SP" or the language of your computer. Like this:
DEVINFO=SCR,"SP",C:\OS2\BOOT\VIOTBL.DCP
DEVINFO=KBD,SP,C:\OS2\KEYBOARD.DCP

And you have to install Pmunimix and run it.
saludos
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: mauro on September 24, 2020, 08:50:08 pm
tried all as suggested, same issue.  But it does not matter, this is just the "alpha" virtual machine where I perform all my experiments at an initial state, the "beta" and the "official" ones do not suffer of such oddity, don't understand why.
For sure, it has not been influenced by these tests about the threads limit or no-swap mode, as I had restored a 2-months-ago snapshot of this machine and it already shows such issue.
Never mind, thank you
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: mauro on September 25, 2020, 08:36:16 am

And you have to install Pmunimix and run it.
saludos

downloaded Pmunimix installer and run its executable icon, it just shows properties, no file execution
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: Dariusz Piatkowski on September 25, 2020, 01:52:10 pm
Hi mauro,

downloaded Pmunimix installer and run its executable icon, it just shows properties, no file execution

run it from command line, most likely you are missing a required DLL, in that case you should see something along those lines about THAT specific missing DLL
Title: Re: FF 45.x and resulting broken sites
Post by: mauro on September 25, 2020, 07:41:23 pm
right:  "The system cannot find the file UNIAUD."  Means I'm running audio device with a different driver, actually I have audio play in this virtual machine