OS2 World Community Forum

Public Discussions => General Discussion => Topic started by: JPM on January 19, 2023, 06:56:40 pm

Title: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: JPM on January 19, 2023, 06:56:40 pm
"You might think OS/2 is long gone, but it still lingers around in more places then you'd expect. Today's video covers ArcaOS, an OS/2-based operating system designed to work with newer hardware!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vXKvku6y5A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vXKvku6y5A)
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Martin Iturbide on January 20, 2023, 01:42:19 am
Hi

Very nice video, and it has a lot of repoductions too (28,981 in 7 hours).

Regards
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Alex Taylor on January 20, 2023, 02:40:57 pm
Interesting that he also has WP 5.2, and I see he encountered some of the same problems as me with using it.

FWIW, the weird colour problem he has is a known issue.  I have this saved from comp.os.os2.apps from ages ago when I was trying to set this up...

Quote
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:33:53 GMT

Gary Bishop wrote:
>
> I may be the only one still trying to use this but here goes.
> WordPerfect for OS/2 ran fine under Warp3 but when I upgraded to Warp4
> everything works ok except the font palette does not seem to recognize
> any of the setups. Instead of a white background with black text most
> of the time it is reversed (black background/white text). I have tried
> lots of settings with no luck. Anyone got a fix or suggestion?
>
> Thanks in advance!!!!
>
> Gary Bishop
> University of Denver
> gbishop@du.edu
>
> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!


You are not the only one!  I've been using it for years and the fixpacks
to Warp 4 have made it much more stable than it was in Warp3 and basic
warp 4.

The fix is easy and documented. Just add the switch /FL in the Optional
parameters section of the WP properties icon object.




--
SENT BY: Lynn Scott McCarty
    Markham, ON, Canada
    lsmccarty "at" home "dot" com

I also found that the WPS classes it registers are rather unstable on OS/2 4.5x.  I used this script post-install to remove them.
Code: [Select]
/* WPFIX.CMD */
IF ( RxFuncQuery('SysCreateObject') == 1 ) THEN DO
    CALL RxFuncAdd 'SysLoadFuncs', 'REXXUTIL', 'SysLoadFuncs'
    CALL SysLoadFuncs
END

CALL KillClass 'WordPerfectDocument'
CALL KillClass 'WordPerfectGraphic'
CALL KillClass 'WordPerfectFile'
CALL KillClass 'WordPerfectObject'

SAY 'Please reboot or restart the Workplace Shell.'

RETURN



KillClass: PROCEDURE
    PARSE ARG classname

    rc = SysDeregisterObjectClass( classname )
    IF rc = 1 THEN
        SAY 'Class' classname 'successfully deregistered.'
    ELSE
        SAY 'Class' classname 'could not be deregistered.'

RETURN rc

I don't have a YouTube account, otherwise I might post this as a comment on the video.  (Anyone else is free to.)

FTR, I haven't actually used WP/2 for a long time, even with the above I never found it to be all that stable on OS/2 4.5x.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Lars on January 20, 2023, 04:44:17 pm
About the fabulous /FL switch:

https://books.google.de/books?id=H53CIZnYLZwC&pg=PA441&lpg=PA441&dq=word+perfect+5.2+/FL+switch&source=bl&ots=69klGX0gGn&sig=ACfU3U1U7UvddDDXuKHZ-WzxhFx7ydypfQ&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj0mNmsvtb8AhVGi_0HHRIvAxkQ6AF6BAhCEAM#v=onepage&q=word%20perfect%205.2%20%2FFL%20switch&f=false

But it seems to apply only to "Word Perfect for Windows" ...
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Michael on January 20, 2023, 08:25:56 pm
Could it be that WordPerfect uses the Micrografx Mirrors?
Micrografx Draw, Micrografx Designer and Corel Mosaic for OS/2 use the Mirrors and have problems with the display of colors. You can easily use these programs if you drive back the color depth of the graphics driver, e.g. to 256.

Does anyone know if there was ever a fix for the Mirrors who fixes the problem?
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Alex Taylor on January 22, 2023, 01:53:48 am
WP does indeed use MIRRORS.DLL (I just double checked and sure enough it's there on diskette 1).
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Lars on January 22, 2023, 02:14:03 pm
ok, so that likely means, the color resolution should be changed to anything else but 256 colors. For example, you should change to 16 colors (lousy) or true color (16 Million colors). Then, according to that article in "PC Mag", that should get rid of that "white text on black background" problem.

If I`d have to guess I would think that there is a problem if colors are selected from a palette instead of being directly coded in RGB.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: davidrg on January 31, 2023, 11:08:23 pm
And it seems Arca Noae issued a copyright takedown notice - the video is gone: https://twitter.com/mjdtweets/status/1620121728105218049

Seems like a bit of an abuse of the youtube takedown mechanism. Even if Arca Noae doesn't like the video for some reason they shouldn't just go pretending they hold the copyright for it and asking for youtube to remove it.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Lars on February 01, 2023, 12:26:50 am
Read through this and you know why:
https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,3251.msg37902.html#msg37902

They don't have any guts to take a stand against criticism.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Sigurd Fastenrath on February 01, 2023, 10:43:15 am
That is what I mean with "The holy Grail" ArcaOS.

Instead of using facts to convince critics of the opposite, they prefer to be silenced.

Imagine that on Windows: how many videos are there that criticize something, rightly or wrongly, and how many then have to delete these videos? Is that actually what is meant by "censorship"? As 007 once said to Q in Goldfinger "You must be joking!"

When I started OS/2 in 1995, I heard about the "OS/2 evangelists" and their very deterrent strategy for spreading OS/2. Doesn't an operating system also live from the discussion about it, from the rough edges that it may have?

Oh man, I can only hope that this is a misunderstanding and that the few people who deal with ArcaOS and also make it public are not alienated. For me, this also means very clearly: Am I glad that I deleted the ArcaOS channel. There will be no more videos about ArcaOS from me until further notice. But there are plans for OS/2 again!

I hope that ArcaNoae will still rethink this. So in my opinion you only destroy everything yourself, or as a German computer magazine once wrote in connection with a publication about OS/2: "IBM is cutting off its own arms and legs again."

But in the end it may sadly lead to: "Who cares at all?"
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: JPM on February 01, 2023, 01:22:55 pm
That's very sad. This was the best advertisement for ArcaOS for those interested in retro computing due to the reach of MJD... Maybe LGR would have made a video too.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 01, 2023, 01:28:50 pm
And it seems Arca Noae issued a copyright takedown notice - the video is gone: https://twitter.com/mjdtweets/status/1620121728105218049

Seems like a bit of an abuse of the youtube takedown mechanism. Even if Arca Noae doesn't like the video for some reason they shouldn't just go pretending they hold the copyright for it and asking for youtube to remove it.

I don't know why they did that, I'm against this censorship.

Regards
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Sigurd Fastenrath on February 01, 2023, 02:08:58 pm
Just a speculation:

Is there a connection between the blocking of the video and the failure of the 2rosenthals website? By the way it is still marked as an infected site by Bitdefender.

Perhaps the video generated so much traffic on the ArcaNoae site that the servers went down because of this and the video may have been taken off the market for the time being.

Or one of the old Windows evangelists has noticed and doesn't want a new OS/2.

All speculation. The only onces able to tell what is really going on are at Arca Noae.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Ibrahim Hakeem on February 01, 2023, 02:18:56 pm
MichaelMJD's review was not only one of the best production value videos regarding OS/2 in a long time... His channel has a wide-reach of enthusiasts who would be the most likely to spend money on ArcaOS licenses. This is simply unacceptable on Arca Noae's part. As far as I'm aware, Michael was pretty forthright and honest with his review and in spite of all the flaws, still came off with highly positive feelings regarding our platform.

I'm astounded that a company with virtually no competition on the OS/2 platform would go to such an extent. What are potential buyers gonna do, go to Ecomstation? Install Warp 4.52?

Most of Michael's viewers are within the age bracket of 20 to 30. With this action, all that AN has done at this point is further stifle their hopes of market viability for their 5.1.x "retro gamer release". My personal theory is that they want to try to suppress coverage until 5.1 is out, this is not the way to go about it. I say this as someone who fits squarely in this demographic, if I saw this conduct with no prior history with the OS/2 platform, I would absolutely not drop the 129 USD on ArcaOS after witnessing this.

All in all; Arca Noae and Lewis in particular, you have taken down an overall positive review from one of the bigger retro enthusiasts on Youtube for no apparent reason. Please consider the implications of this action on an untapped market you have repeatedly stated you wish to target.

My personal recommendation: release a fully honest explanation as to why the video was taken down and perhaps conduct an interview/guided-tour with Michael regarding 5.1. I will also repeat this - his audience is a large portion of your target enthusiast market, do not anger your target market, especially this close to a major release.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Andi B. on February 01, 2023, 02:21:50 pm
By the way it is still marked as an infected site by Bitdefender.
Maybe you should discuss this with Bitdefender. It's there fault it seems. Both mantis and ArcaNoae main website works from here.

Quote
Perhaps the video generated so much traffic on the ArcaNoae site that the servers went down because of this

No. See above.

Quote
All speculation.
Agree.

As I usually don't follow links to videos I've no clue what was the video all about. Can someone who saw the video sum up what was shown there?
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Lars on February 01, 2023, 02:32:29 pm
Just a speculation:

Is there a connection between the blocking of the video and the failure of the 2rosenthals website? By the way it is still marked as an infected site by Bitdefender.

Perhaps the video generated so much traffic on the ArcaNoae site that the servers went down because of this and the video may have been taken off the market for the time being.

Or one of the old Windows evangelists has noticed and doesn't want a new OS/2.

All speculation. The only onces able to tell what is really going on are at Arca Noae.

I can access: http://www.2rosenthals.net/wordpress/jfs-chkdsk-options-on-os2-1020/
without a problem. Your problem seems to be Bitdefender specific.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Ben Hjelt on February 01, 2023, 04:21:38 pm
Quote
I don't know why they did that, I'm against this censorship.
Saw the video and I'm guessing it was because he didn't use a review copy? He borrowed an iso from a friend and blurred out the reg info.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Dave Yeo on February 01, 2023, 08:21:49 pm
It's all conjecture. I like to believe that Arca Noae wouldn't be daft enough to take it down but who knows.
One problem is the way the DMCA and YouTube interact, it is way too easy to take down a video, by almost anyone, with no appeal to mention. Could have been music playing in the background, a candy bar wrapper too visible, or some bot's imagination. I didn't watch the video.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 02, 2023, 12:43:23 am
Hi

Here it is the twitter message from the author that was linked here on the forum: https://twitter.com/mjdtweets/status/1620121728105218049

Regards

Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: davidrg on February 02, 2023, 11:07:09 pm
As I usually don't follow links to videos I've no clue what was the video all about. Can someone who saw the video sum up what was shown there?

Seems the situation has been resolved and the video is back online if you want to watch it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vXKvku6y5A - according to twitter he will detail what happened soon
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 02, 2023, 11:17:56 pm
Hi

It is good to see that the video is back.  It has 240K views now.

My guess is that Arca Noae signed that typical agreements that says that "Arca Noae should protect IBM's copyright on their product", and that freaked them out to don't have problems with a big corporation that can wipe you out of business easily.

Regards
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: ivan on February 03, 2023, 01:01:31 am
Having watched the video I have to ask why use Word-perfect or even attempt to install it?  I also get the impression that he doesn't really know what he is doing  because of flapping the mouse pointer all over the place and moving windows for no reason.

I very much doubt that it will cause anyone to try OS/2 ArcaOS.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 03, 2023, 03:07:31 am
Having watched the video I have to ask why use Word-perfect or even attempt to install it?

It seems that he has the original diskettes. The temptation to test old software on OS/2 when you have the original diskettes is irresistible  ;D ;D ;D   
https://youtu.be/9vXKvku6y5A?t=567
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: ivan on February 03, 2023, 06:57:53 am
In that case he should have tried it on OS/2 v 2.1 and a 486 based computer.

Sorry but I can't understand those living in the past and thinking OS/2 is the past.  With that attitude it will never go forward and IBM should open it up so that others can take it forward even if they dropped it because of pressure from MS.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: davidrg on February 03, 2023, 08:37:37 am
In that case he should have tried it on OS/2 v 2.1 and a 486 based computer.

Sorry but I can't understand those living in the past and thinking OS/2 is the past.  With that attitude it will never go forward and IBM should open it up so that others can take it forward even if they dropped it because of pressure from MS.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the major selling points of ArcaOS that it its a supported OS that runs your existing OS/2 apps without modification on modern hardware?

To me that's what sets it apart from "hobby" operating systems like Haiku (https://www.haiku-os.org/) or SerenityOS (https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity#screenshot), its value proposition for companies. Protects their existing investment in OS/2 apps they wrote back in the 90s. Apps they potentially don't have source code for or would cost far too much to port to or rewrite for another platform.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Sigurd Fastenrath on February 03, 2023, 08:52:46 am
That happens, when you react as you were still or live in the 90's of last century on a video that is published 30 years later...

Yes, there is a license contract with IBM, but even though it might be better to inform possible violaters about it first. If I understand correctly, this contract did not forbid the video.

May be next time it is a good advice to contact the author of the video before crashing all down. But the damage is already there.

But due to all this negative attitude on ArcaOS and the "possible legal" problems with making a video about it now, I wonder if anyone else with such a wide spreeded channel will ever report about it.

I would very much like to be convinced otherwise! There have been so much tremendous work done by ArcaNoae with ArcaOS that it is really a pitty to have such a negative publicity now.



Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Ben Hjelt on February 03, 2023, 09:30:34 am
It seems someone catfished MJD and ratted him out :-[
(https://files.catbox.moe/68r3tk.png)
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Ibrahim Hakeem on February 03, 2023, 09:43:13 am
I am glad we now have answers in regards to what happened. With increasing public attention - I believe it would strongly benefit AN to hire someone who can more capably investigate license theft/piracy, a public relations manager couldn't possibly hurt either. This case highlights a dire need for both.

It's well understood at this point that Arca Noae's primary focus is on their corporate clientele, but for their sake, I believe they'd best be hiring the expected faculties for a business which is focused on selling a software product in this day and age.

Regardless, a public statement from Arca Noae wrapping up this situation in addition to a guided interview with Michael would greatly benefit both sides of this problem, at least from a PR perspective.

Personally, I had been planning on starting a Youtube channel highlighting my day-to-day experiences upon the release of 5.1. At this point, I'm highly unsure of this being a good idea - at least until AN fixes up their act. I'm certain already established channels who may have had the idea of creating any content regarding AOS are feeling the same.


Lastly, to quote a comment from from the video:
Quote
If they believed that imposter email imagine how easy it would be to trick them into handing over all you data that was collected when purchasing this software lmao

There are some severe implications to such a haphazard approach to license management.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 03, 2023, 01:14:47 pm
Hi

Sadly this backfired badly in my personal opinion:
- Comments on YouTube and Twitter are more focused on how it is possible that Arca Noae believed a scammers e-mail and did not validate the email by writing back.
- While it was a good opportunity to show ArcaOS to a wider audience it became a very little scandal about censorship.
- I'm not sure if the video author (that has 350K subscribers) is happy with the video performance and will eventually do more ArcaOS videos. He took the opportunity to look like a victim of copyright abuse.
- Arca Noae was picture as abusive because of the copyright strike. A strike is very serious for a YouTuber that makes money from the platform, because 3 strikes and your account gets deleted. Even if they remove the strike, a profitable YouTuber will make a lot of noise for each Strike he gets, specially if it is unfair.
- What worries me also is that there is a dumb ass sending fake emails and trying to screw ArcaOS, and we don't have resources to handle that kind of stupidity.
Any publicity is good publicity?

Regards
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 03, 2023, 01:22:04 pm
Hi Ibrahim

Personally, I had been planning on starting a Youtube channel highlighting my day-to-day experiences upon the release of 5.1. At this point, I'm highly unsure of this being a good idea - at least until AN fixes up their act. I'm certain already established channels who may have had the idea of creating any content regarding AOS are feeling the same.

I had been holding down to release any pictures, videos, or even technical questions about ArcaOS 5.1 on the public forum, for respect that I had been authorized to be on the beta tester group and since it is an unreleased close source product. I would not worry about copyright issues, because, since I'm not making any more it will fall over the "fair use" under the "Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976" since it is more educational and news reporting.

I just hope that official version 5.1 get released soon.

Regards
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: ivan on February 03, 2023, 06:33:23 pm
Quote
I just hope that official version 5.1 get released soon.

You mean there is an actual version  and it's not just wishful thinking.  We have been hearing about it for so long that I, for one, can't help wondering if it is just pie in the sky.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 03, 2023, 08:49:30 pm
Quote
I just hope that official version 5.1 get released soon.

You mean there is an actual version  and it's not just wishful thinking.  We have been hearing about it for so long that I, for one, can't help wondering if it is just pie in the sky.

Yes, it is real and I used it in beta testing, but I don't want to comment it's features for respect to the developers. It is Arca Noae job to talk about it.

I want 5.1 to be over, since there are so many other needs for the platform.

Regards
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: ivan on February 04, 2023, 02:10:52 am
 Thank you Martin BUT it still leaves the question - will it run on my MSI B550-A PRO board with a Ryzen 3 Pro 4350G processor (third Generation)?

It would also be good public relations if one of those working on actually responded here and gave us some idea of their testing protocol.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Dave Yeo on February 04, 2023, 04:26:18 am
Hi Ivan, Arca Noae doesn't have infinite resources to test every combination of hardware along with BIOS's etc. There's a good chance it will work but you won't know if MSI made some weird decisions until you test.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: ivan on February 04, 2023, 10:18:54 am
Hi David,

Right from the beginning of ArcaOS I offered to test anything they wanted but got a cold shoulder about it so now if it works of if it doesn't I just grumble about it here.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 04, 2023, 05:05:22 pm
Hi David,

Right from the beginning of ArcaOS I offered to test anything they wanted but got a cold shoulder about it so now if it works of if it doesn't I just grumble about it here.

Hi Ivan

I don't speak for Arca Noae, but I think they don't have enough capacity to check for everyone to be on the "beta testers" group. 
But you don't need them to test everything you want, just test the hardware and publish here on the forum, we have each other.
I also found that a good level of respectful grumble is also good for everybody.

Regards
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 04, 2023, 05:12:18 pm
Thank you Martin BUT it still leaves the question - will it run on my MSI B550-A PRO board with a Ryzen 3 Pro 4350G processor (third Generation)?

It would also be good public relations if one of those working on actually responded here and gave us some idea of their testing protocol.

Hi Ivan

I don't understand your question. You already reported that the mainboard was working on ArcaOS 5.0.x (MSI B550-A Pro (https://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php/MSI_B550-A_Pro)). Do you mean if ArcaOS 5.1 with UEFI support will work on it? I guess it will keep working there, but the migration path may be confusing if you want to turn UEFI mode on your BIOS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzB1VyK-qEc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzB1VyK-qEc). We will have to wait until we have the final product on our hands.

Regards
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Eugene Tucker on February 04, 2023, 06:10:59 pm
On 5.1 Louis said at Warpstock that it was ready to go just a few infrastructure things to do. Something must have happened that was a real show stopper. From my experience they do what they need to do to deliver a solid working product. The Support form Arca Noae is excellent.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: ivan on February 04, 2023, 06:58:48 pm
Hi Martin,

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.  My question was about running that board in UEFI mode - I have proved it works in compatibility mode.  Yes, we have to wait but nothing appears to be happening after all the hype we were given at Warpstock which is why I said they need someone running their publicity that can report on this forum - they seem to be running everything on a shoestring which is not good for the future.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Dave Yeo on February 04, 2023, 07:22:18 pm
If it runs fine in CSM mode, it should run fine in UEFI mode.
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: ivan on February 04, 2023, 10:33:31 pm
Thanks Dave.  Why didn't the Arca publicity person say that?
Title: Re: ArcaOS on Youtube @MichaelMJD
Post by: Roderick Klein on February 05, 2023, 01:25:58 am
Hi Martin,

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.  My question was about running that board in UEFI mode - I have proved it works in compatibility mode.  Yes, we have to wait but nothing appears to be happening after all the hype we were given at Warpstock which is why I said they need someone running their publicity that can report on this forum - they seem to be running everything on a shoestring which is not good for the future.

Do you think it was any different in the Mensys days ? These are 5 people working on ArcaOS at AN.
https://www.arcanoae.com/about/
Nothing new here. Its not a big company with seperate desks for marketing, development, support etc.

Roderick