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WebSite Information => Comments, Suggestions & Questions => Topic started by: Martin Iturbide on May 14, 2021, 05:38:59 pm

Title: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 14, 2021, 05:38:59 pm
Hi

I still have the "itchiness" to reorganize some files in hobbes, and even also some other places like OS2site.
But I hold back, some people may not like reorganizing and renaming of the files, some other may tell me "do not bother on that", and it is also a huge task.

Also there have been no reply from the hobbes administrator on my offer to help and have a quicker access to modify file descriptions of the database and been able to move files to the corresponding directory.

And also, it is big job to try organize all the OS/2 software available. From one side I think it is good to keep all the versions of the software, but from the other side I understand that some sites (like hobbes) should only have the latest version (with the exception of drivers). Times has change and storage space is not problem for OS/2 programs like it was on the past. (like my crazy OHFOWG (https://archive.org/download/OHFOWG) and the OS2World Github (7GB) )

My concern with OS/2 preservation had been growing when I saw how old software disappears from the internet (some can not be found even on the waybackmachine). I don't want to delete anything. I hopefully will like to backup the old things with the old names in different archive.org items and later focus in the working apps, latest versions and renaming and moving the files.

What do you think?

- Should I try to make my own public file repository? If I try that I will need help, I don't want more server administration with that.
- Should I keep trying to improve hobbes order in this slow way of uploading files with .txt template file?
- Should I take care that "itchiness" with some other thing and forget this thing?

Ian, (he runs the os2site), your opinion is important for me. 

I also want to do something collaborative with the help of several people since it is a big task.

Regards

Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on May 14, 2021, 06:57:22 pm
About Hobbes: The long description is not correctly displayed in the current HTML interface. It's correct when being downloaded as file per FTP. Second, upload requires passive FTP and active FTP is not rejected. It would just create 0 B files.

The uploader decides himself which prior versions are deleted on archiving (moving it to the destination) by the 'Replaces' entry.

(I always keep main versions and for others I delete the prior ones. One reason is that I want to ensure that people always use the newest version. If something important doesn't work, I'll upload a new version as soon as possible. Another one is to keep the repository clean. The full list of official versions can be accessed on netlabs.org, where I have have more options with the web page to direct people to the latest version.)

Ian seems to keep old versions on his site (where he mirrors Hobbes plus gathers files from other sources, also those that wouldn't be available elsewhere).

I don't like the Hobbes situation either. It's just too unsafe to rely on a single server. I'm glad that Ian's server exists and am not sure if we need another mirror.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 14, 2021, 09:56:39 pm
I don't like the Hobbes situation either. It's just to unsafe to rely on a single server. I'm glad that Ian's server exists and am not sure if we need another mirror.

I agree on not rely on a single server. I encourage to backup everything on the Internet Archive just in case.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on May 15, 2021, 03:20:27 am
Martin, I would welcome an alternate archive of OS/2 programs. I think it's an interesting bit of history. A well laid out archive would be a legacy of a legacy operating system. I think you are a good person to do it because you have studied archiving OS/2 material for years.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 16, 2021, 07:30:36 pm
Hi

Just in case, this weekend, I will take a full backup of hobbes and put it on Archive.org just to leave it archived. I guess nobody will get mad for it.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Mentore on May 17, 2021, 08:21:49 am
Hi

Just in case, this weekend, I will take a full backup of hobbes and put it on Archive.org just to leave it archived. I guess nobody will get mad for it.

Regards

I don't think there will be problems with this. I also second your idea of an alternate "main" repo for OS/2 software.

Mentore
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 17, 2021, 04:58:25 pm
Hi

As a first step, I had uploaded an old Hobbes 2020-02 backup I have on Archive.org.
https://archive.org/download/hobbes-archive-2020-02 (https://archive.org/download/hobbes-archive-2020-02)

I will upload an 2021-05 backup too.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on May 18, 2021, 03:57:47 pm
Something looks wrong with the file dates. They are all 17-May-2021
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 18, 2021, 05:16:37 pm
Something looks wrong with the file dates. They are all 17-May-2021
Hi

Seems to be the upload date from my machine to archive.org. I think there is no way to preserve the original dates of the files when you upload a file there.

Also, yesterday night, I also uploaded a 2021-05 backup of hobbes I made with HTTPTrack.
- https://archive.org/download/hobbes-archive-2021-05/hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/ (https://archive.org/download/hobbes-archive-2021-05/hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/)

With this, I expect,  people will have access to the backup in case we decided to delete some old software versions in hobbes. I still need to think more about it and discuss it.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Ian Manners on May 19, 2021, 10:51:52 am
Hi Martin,

Apologies about the late reply, been busy, and will be for the next couple of weeks.

Archiving is like religion..
As long as you have the files you need I do not think there is a right, or a wrong way, and everyone has an opinion of what you are doing wrong :o)

I still update my hobbes mirror whenever the incoming directory file count goes down but this is not currently reflected on www.os2site.com as it
is no longer an OS/2 based server, so none of my scripts etc run. I had a look at stunnel/rsync/ftp but have not been successful in getting any combination to
work with updating www.os2site.com from my home based OS/2 server. It is on my to do list so will be looking at it again in a month or so.

My hobbes mirror also does not remove files, it's not an rsync type mirror but a plain FTP mirror of hobbes.

On www.os2site.com itself, over time I'm been creating /old directories where older versions of files are moved.
I do this as occasionally a file is uploaded to hobbes that has an incorrect "Replaces:" field, and if its not caught then that file is removed or deleted. Not a good way to maintain an archive, and its a pain to retrieve a file from an older backup, if I recognised what has happened.
Some people have requested that I not keep older versions of their software on os2site.com, in that case the older versions are moved to a non public area on the server. One person asked that all their software be removed from public view, this I did.

I have also created a http://www.os2site.com/sw/martin directory where all of your uploads are moved to, that keeps the original files intact but creates a parallel archive of your cleaned up files, doing otherwise was getting a bit messy :)  The /sw/martin/ directory on my home server is far more populated that the publicly available www.os2site.com version.

The main thing is that YOU are happy with what you are doing :)
And don't let it take over your life.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: ivan on May 19, 2021, 01:21:37 pm
Hi Martin,

Looking at Hobbes incoming, it appears the first thing should be the opening of a new subsection of the archive called something like 'ancient software' that could have subsections of 'drivers', 'utilities' and so on.  My reasoning for that is someone new to OS/2 will not be deluded into thinking the old drivers will work on new hardware and conversely, someone with very old hardware would have a better hope of finding things that will work.

Your idea of creating a total backup of the OS/2 section is excelent but it should be ready to take over at a moments notice should the NMSU authorities decide to close that section down.

All of us should be very thankful that the University has kept the OS/2 section going but we shouldn't expect them to keep it up for ever.   
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Lars on May 19, 2021, 03:34:28 pm
I agree with what Ivan says: outdated drivers should go into an "archived" subpart. If a driver is updated, there usually are very good reasons why that happens. An old driver archive is only valuable if there is either additional info or source code in it (which almost never happens).
Right now, I can see in Hobbes an old patch for USBMSD.ADD from Yuri Dario to make USBMSD.ADD work with an olympus digital camera (USBMSD_patch_2002-08-09.zip). But the patches only work for very old versions of USBMSD.ADD and with some likelyness, this error has been fixed with newer versions of USBMSD.ADD.
What's more, this patch set has been uploaded to OS2SITE with a different name (usbmsd13b.zip), just adding to the confusion.
A new user would likely try to desperately downgrade his version of USBMSD.ADD so the patch can be applied, and along with it, break everything else.

It's a perfect way to drive away new users.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Ian Manners on May 19, 2021, 04:44:29 pm
Hi Lars,

Quote
But the patches only work for very old versions of USBMSD.ADD and with some likelyness, this error has been fixed with newer versions of USBMSD.ADD.

This was back in the day when Olympus had propriety USB drivers, they fixed the problem by allowing access to cameras as if they were USB drivers/keys.
That update is only required if someone is using very early model Olympus cameras from around 20 years ago.

In saying that, thanks for the info, I have moved that file to the usb/old directory on 'my' os2site.com and updated the descriptions. Hopefully that will be pushed out to the public www.os2site.com when I have replication sorted.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Lars on May 19, 2021, 06:21:25 pm
Hi Lars,

Quote
But the patches only work for very old versions of USBMSD.ADD and with some likelyness, this error has been fixed with newer versions of USBMSD.ADD.

This was back in the day when Olympus had propriety USB drivers, they fixed the problem by allowing access to cameras as if they were USB drivers/keys.
That update is only required if someone is using very early model Olympus cameras from around 20 years ago.

In saying that, thanks for the info, I have moved that file to the usb/old directory on 'my' os2site.com and updated the descriptions. Hopefully that will be pushed out to the public www.os2site.com when I have replication sorted.

Was that the problem with the incorrect signature of USBU instead of USBS in the status block?
I have a USB filter driver (it's rather the driver from EXIGEN to show the filter concept) that fixes that on the fly. Without any need to change USBMSD.ADD. That filter driver is in my USB repo. I never released it but I could.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 19, 2021, 07:17:42 pm
Hi

Reading the comments, I'm leaning to the idea of the two repositories.

One repository that stores everything, like new and old versions of drivers and software. Why? Because there are people that want to experiment with old hardware and old OS/2 versions, and require an specific old driver or software, that may not be supported for old OS/2 versions (or hardware).

The second repository, that may be hobbes, where we only store the latest versions and newer release of software, and possible only the software that works/runs with Warp 4.52, eCS and ArcaOS.

But this is just an early idea. I still do not get any feedback from the hobbes administrator to see if we can go forward with the idea.

TOOLS?
I'm also looking for ideas on which web script or tool may be good to create a web site like hobbes or os2site, that may be very simple. It had been hard to find something like that on the web, it seems that on these days, the internet does not want to share files...we are on the era of blogs, pictures, videos, articles, but not files :)

I wish there could be something simple like an ftp where you put the "xyz.zip" file with a "xyz.xml" with the info, and that web page (web script) renders the xml to show the link and the description as a web page like hobbes.
I also like how Alfresco looks for sharing files, but it is an open source "Enterprise Content Management" tool that is not easy to use.

Ian, how easy or hard to use is the script you use at OS2Site (FilePage?) ? Is it something that you created customized for your use? or it is something public?

For the moment I will continue with the drivers, and some other tools on hobbes, but it is very slowly since I don't have any special access to improve the site.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Ian Manners on May 20, 2021, 06:40:28 pm
Hi Lars,

Quote
Was that the problem with the incorrect signature of USBU instead of USBS in the status block?
I have a USB filter driver (it's rather the driver from EXIGEN to show the filter concept) that fixes that on the fly. Without any need to change USBMSD.ADD. That filter driver is in my USB repo. I never released it but I could.

Not sure, I assumed (probably wrongly) that Olympus did what Canon did and that required a special driver to access the cameras storage. Looking at the patch, which I cant remember if I did back then, looks like its was an incorrect signature though I think Olympus did that on purpose. I had an Oly camera back then that required that patch but as soon as the E series came out, upgraded to get rid of both the camera, and the patched USB driver.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Ian Manners on May 20, 2021, 06:58:04 pm
Hi Martin,

Keep in mind that NMSU probably do not want to change to much, it is for student's to do a final test of code on, it needs to be a stable server for at least that semester, a server that has known variables that have been documented for the students to use in writing code to test for their semester marks, radically changing it would very likely mean rewriting course manuals, and that can involve the exams department, legal, and other University departments. It can be a right royal pain for whoever is charged with looking after the archive, like Curtis, who also has other duties.

Quote
Ian, how easy or hard to use is the script you use at OS2Site (FilePage?) ? Is it something that you created customized for your use? or it is something public?

Filepage is written in C, I have the code but as parts are written by someone else, and other parts are written by persons unknown, I can only release the code I have written and changed which looks a bit weird without the rest...

Latest version of Filepage is available at http://www.os2site.com/sw/internet/util/  (http://www.os2site.com/sw/internet/util/) and is currently filepage401.zip.
All the file descriptions are simply listed in a text file called descriptions, and the entire site is setup using one config file, the archive file contains an example.

After this month is finished at my University, I will be happy to go over how it works, and even change the code and recompile if that is needed to create something that you are after but it has been designed to be highly configurable, down to colors, column names etc. I don't think it would be hard to add the description for a file in a listing from a file with the same name but a different extension such as .xml, I simply find it easier to put all the descriptions into one text file. The page headers/banners and footers are located in separate files. Filepage is simple, and very fast at creating index.html files, the exe is currently OS/2 only but it should also be easy enough to port to anything that uses C.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 28, 2021, 04:14:17 pm
Hi Ian
Keep in mind that NMSU probably do not want to change to much, it is for student's to do a final test of code on, it needs to be a stable server for at least that semester, a server that has known variables that have been documented for the students to use in writing code to test for their semester marks, radically changing it would very likely mean rewriting course manuals, and that can involve the exams department, legal, and other University departments. It can be a right royal pain for whoever is charged with looking after the archive, like Curtis, who also has other duties.
I don't know about it, maybe you have more information. Is the hobbes server also used for student practice? I haven't see any change in hobbes for some time. I don't know if the server is supposed to provide any service to the students while it also offer hobbes (OS/2 files) to the world.

I had sent again an email to Curtis and see if I can get more privileges to work to improve hobbes, like processing incoming directory, relocating files, improving file names, short and long descriptions, and possible removing old versions releases of software.

As an idea, maybe we can work on OS2Site, to create an alternative file path location on the ftp when we can reorganize "ALL PUBLIC" OS/2 related files and turn it into the  "FULL Repository" with all versions of the software we can get.  Maybe I can work on the "/MARTIN/" to start drafting the idea, if you agreed to give me full access to it. ftp?

Regards

Note: I had corrected the "ALL" to "ALL PUBLIC" trying to find out what freaked some people for something that does not even exist yet.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 28, 2021, 08:45:07 pm
Note: I removed Doug, Lars and my rant since I'm the OS2World moderator and I didn't want to fall into the game.

I will discuss how to reorganize and preserve OS/2 files in hobbes or any other site. It is a non-profit effort for the community and it will fall under the US Copyright Law 107 (Fair Use) (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/107).

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 29, 2021, 03:00:48 pm
Hi

I'm trying to understand the difference between:
- /pub/os2/apps/wps (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fapps%2Fwps) - Workplace Shell related applications
and
- /pub/os2/util/wps (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Futil%2Fwps) - WorkPlace Shell/Presentation Manager utilities.

I'm not sure where should "desktop enhancement" software should be located, under "util" or "apps" ?

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Lars on May 29, 2021, 03:32:10 pm
Under UTILS. An APP is something standalone, serving a main purpose. A util is something that supports the user in interfacing with his computer.
But of course, that will always be arguable.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 29, 2021, 03:52:49 pm
Under UTILS. An APP is something standalone, serving a main purpose. A util is something that supports the user in interfacing with his computer.
But of course, that will always be arguable.
Yes, it is arguable, and I agree "desktop enhancements" should be under UTILS.
..but if
- XWP and XFolder should be consider WPS Utilities (under /pub/os2/util/wps).
- And there is already a structure for each kind of app.  For example, a WPS Calendar is a wps app (/apps/wps)  but there is also "/apps/calendar" which seems the correct place.
It will make "/pub/os2/apps/wps (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fapps%2Fwps)" empty.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Ian Manners on May 31, 2021, 11:57:04 am
Hi Martin,

Quote
I don't know about it, maybe you have more information. Is the hobbes server also used for student practice? I haven't see any change in hobbes for some time. I don't know if the server is supposed to provide any service to the students while it also offer hobbes (OS/2 files) to the world.

Going on what I know about Computer Science at University of Western Australia, the files are likely to be archived and moved from incoming at or towards the end of a semester as students present their finished code to be tested on the server. If it does not work as planned, then I would hope its restored from backup. I have not asked Curtis about any of this, its simply an assumption going on what I know of university group and individual assignments at several universities I've been acquainted with over the years.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Lars on May 31, 2021, 01:03:07 pm
Under UTILS. An APP is something standalone, serving a main purpose. A util is something that supports the user in interfacing with his computer.
But of course, that will always be arguable.
Yes, it is arguable, and I agree "desktop enhancements" should be under UTILS.
..but if
- XWP and XFolder should be consider WPS Utilities (under /pub/os2/util/wps).
- And there is already a structure for each kind of app.  For example, a WPS Calendar is a wps app (/apps/wps)  but there is also "/apps/calendar" which seems the correct place.
It will make "/pub/os2/apps/wps (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?path=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Fapps%2Fwps)" empty.

Regards

That goes beyond what you have been asking for.
I would refrain from moving things that already exist at their final place. Someone might have a link on some of that.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 11, 2021, 03:55:30 pm
Hi

Here goes another one.

I want to upload Uniaud-20210320.exe to hobbes. Should I replace all other older Uniaud versions available there. (like 22 versions of Uniaud) ??

It will not mean that all other older Uniaud version will be gone from earth, we have backups on netlabs, os2site and Internet Archive. It will be towards the idea that Hobbes should only have the latest version of software.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on June 12, 2021, 04:30:50 am
Seems to me that the ideal would be to leave the major releases, if that can be figured out.
Trimming down to the latest, while often a good idea, sometimes leads to replacing a good version with a not so good version. In the case of Uniaud, I've often heard of systems that need an older version.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on June 12, 2021, 02:23:42 pm
Yes, I agree with Dave.

Plus: The programmer is the one who knows best which version should be kept.

The question seems to be a bit theoretical since more and more ancient drivers are uploaded. Even when someone prefers the original SPEA-V7 driver, I don't guess what's the benefit of keeping the older 2.02 release.

If they would be moved to a separate dir, I won't complain. But how about an older Uniaud driver then?
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Lars on June 12, 2021, 03:08:30 pm
It's not zero or one. You can keep say the last 3 driver versions or so. But it would be helpful to clearly separate the very latest from the rest. The intention is: make a new user take the latest version. Only if that fails, should he delve into it more deeply and try an older version.

Maybe an archive directory with the very same sublayout as the existing main dir would help. Whenever something is superseded by newer stuff, then move the existing stuff to the same subdir in that archive directory.

I myself keep older versions of my USB drivers only for a limited time. But since I properly tagged my source files, I would be able to recreate exactly one specific version (for example, to recreate an error case).
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 13, 2021, 12:54:36 am
Hi

These are the Uniaud version on hobbes.

Quote
Uniaud-20181126.exe   Uniaud Installer 2018-11-26
Uniaud-Installer-195-213.zip   UniAud Audio Driver Beta Installer (2010-04-20)
UniAud-Installer_1-0-9_20060325.zip   UniAud 1.0.9 Installer (2006-03-25)
UniAud-Installer_1-0-9_20060829.zip   UniAud 1.0.9 Installer (2006-08-29)
UniAud-Installer_1-0-9_20060830.zip   UniAud 1.0.9 Installer (2006-08-30)
Uniaud-Update-195-213.zip   UniAud Audio Driver Beta Update (2010-04-20)
Uniaud32_1-9-5_2008-07-16.zip   Uniaud32 v1.9.5 based on ALSA level 1.0.17 - 2008-07-16 - SVN revision 358
UniAud32_Resync_1-0-1.zip   UniAud32 Resync Driver 1.0.1 (2008/01/26)
UniAud_1-0-4b_20030425.zip   UniAud 1.0.4b Driver (2003-04-25)
UniAud_1-0-4_20021009.zip   UniAud 1.0.4 Driver (2002-10-09)
UniAud_1-0-4_20021031.zip   UniAud 1.0.4 Driver (2002-10-31)
UniAud_1-0-9_20050802.zip   UniAud 1.0.9 Driver (2005-08-02)
UniAud_1-1-2_2004-12-29.zip   Uniaud 1.1.2 (2004-12-29)
UniAud_1-1-4-RC4.zip   UniAud 1.1.4 RC4 Driver (2007/11/20)
UniAud_1-1-4-RC5_20080218.zip   UniAud 1.1.4 RC5 Driver (2008-02-18)
UniAud_1-1-4-RC6.zip   UniAud 1.1.4 RC6 Driver (2008/04/02)
UniAud_1-1-4-RC7.ZIP   UniAud 1.1.4 RC7 Driver (2008/11/22)
Uniaud_2-2-6_2020-05-06.exe   
UniAud_debug_1-1-4-RC4.zip   UniAud 1.1.4 RC4 Driver Debug Version (2007/11/20)
UniAud_debug_1-1-4-RC5.zip   UniAud 1.1.4 RC5 Driver Debug Version (2008/02/22)
UniAud_debug_1-1-4-RC6.zip   UniAud 1.1.4 RC6 Driver Debug Version (2008/04/04)
UniAud_debug_1-1-4-RC7.zip

Which ones should we keep in addition of the latest " Uniaud-20210320.exe" ?

My bet would be.

Quote
- Uniaud-20210320.exe                               Uniaud 3.01.01
- Uniaud_2-2-6_2020-05-06.exe   
- UniAud_1-1-2_2004-12-29.zip               Uniaud 1.1.2 (2004-12-29)
- UniAud-Installer_1-0-9_20060830.zip       UniAud 1.0.9 Installer (2006-08-30)
- UniAud_1-0-4_20021031.zip               UniAud 1.0.4 Driver (2002-10-31)

Trying to be the latest of each version, but I would also have to check the Netlabs ftp to be sure about it.
Any other bets?

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on June 13, 2021, 01:04:56 am
That looks like a pretty good compromise as long as they're also archived somewhere else.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Roderick Klein on June 13, 2021, 01:11:38 am
In this case why keep such old antique versions of Uniaud ? For other drivers I can imagen you keep them.
It a long time ago but I think it was in 2014 or 2015 David Azarewicz made some pretty import fixes.
One of them was in the audio buffer management of UNIAUD16.SYS. But its to long ago, going by what I remember.
All Uniaud builds support the all of the older hardware as well.  So why distribute old stuff that can pontially crash a users computer ?
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 13, 2021, 03:26:38 am
Hi.
In this case why keep such old antique versions of Uniaud ? For other drivers I can imagen you keep them.
....So why distribute old stuff that can pontially crash a users computer ?

...The question seems to be a bit theoretical since more and more ancient drivers are uploaded. Even when someone prefers the original SPEA-V7 driver, I don't guess what's the benefit of keeping the older 2.02 release.

I will like to repeat again the rationale for keeping old drivers.

The OS/2 community is not only composed by people that want to run OS/2 and ArcaOS on the latest and better hardware. Recently there had been a lot of hobbyist that are running older OS/2 on old hardware with old cards and old peripherals. Even from time to time an industrial user of OS/2 shows up that need old driver for older OS/2 for their machines. Keeping old drivers allow them to use OS/2 the way the like and need.  Remember that sometimes newer drivers (of the same device and developer) remove the OS/2 2.x or Warp 3 support in favor of the latest OS/2, so it is important to preserve every version of OS/2 drivers for people not using the latest OS/2 version.

If someone points me to a driver that can be dangerous (like bad file system driver that can wipe all the hard drive), I will request to be removed from hobbes and preserve it somewhere else with the proper warnings to the end user.

When I upload an old driver to hobbes, I try to put on the short description the name, the version and the date. I name it similar as  the latest one but with lower version (or earlier date) so the user can easily identify and try the latest first, and later download the older one if he needs it.

What the discussion should be, is if these old drivers should be kept on Hobbes or not.
The discussion started with UniAud and the suggestions are:
1) Only keep the latest one.
2) Keep the main releases of Uniaud, not the development or preview releases.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: OS4User on June 13, 2021, 09:57:12 am
1) Only keep the latest one.
2) Keep the main releases of Uniaud, not the development or preview releases.

keep all development or preview releases in archive sub dir

rumors said  that early builds of uniaud  supported multi channel sound  on some hardware. current uniaud has lost this ability  -  so old builds  may help to find out when this ability went away.

Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 13, 2021, 02:32:46 pm
Hi
rumors said  that early builds of uniaud  supported multi channel sound  on some hardware.
If it can be possible I would like to confirm or deny that rumor.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 13, 2021, 02:35:21 pm

Hi
rumors said  that early builds of uniaud  supported multi channel sound  on some hardware.
If it can be possible I would like to confirm or deny that rumor.

keep all development or preview releases in archive sub dir
I'm not sure that will be look so good on hobbes. I'm still contemplating the idea to have two repositories, one with the full archive with all versions of drivers and software (maybe at OS2Site, and an extra public backup), and just retain the latest on hobbes.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: ivan on June 13, 2021, 05:47:35 pm
Hi Martin,

I get the impression that you are your own worst enemy regarding Hobbes. (I am assuming it is you that is adding all the ancient drivers/programs for which there is no hardware).

With all the old junk cluttering up incoming it is almost impossible to see any new input unless one is looking for a specific item.  Unfortunately, I can't see a simple way round the problem unless you can talk NMSU and the person that looks after the OS/2 section to create a 'incoming\archive' section where all the old drivers/programs can be posted to, so leaving 'incoming' clear for new material.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 13, 2021, 06:22:01 pm
I get the impression that you are your own worst enemy regarding Hobbes. (I am assuming it is you that is adding all the ancient drivers/programs for which there is no hardware).
Indeed. I don't have any special access to hobbes. If you want to organize/fix/move/add descriptions/etc you need to go to the upload to incoming process. But wait, I'm uploading ancient drivers, but mostly there are the same drivers that are already there, that I'm just reorganizing, adding the version number and date.

It may be an issue for people who search the incoming folder to check for software updates, which I guess it is not what the incoming folder is intended for.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 13, 2021, 06:26:07 pm
Let's recapitulate.

What should be done with UniAud on hobbes? the suggestions are:
1) Only keep the latest one. (Have a different repository, os2site, netlabs, archive.org for the older versions)
2) Keep the main releases of Uniaud, not the development or preview releases.
3) Keep older released on a different directory. Maybe like /old like OS2Site has.

I'm still leaning for #1, since there are people that think that hobbes should be for the "Modern OS/2 User" and some other site should have all the "Legacy Driver".

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Ibrahim Hakeem on June 14, 2021, 02:27:31 am
Option 2 would probably be the best choice. If you are interested in having a mirror of Hobbes oriented to the modern OS/2 user, it's important to acknowledge that the latest UniAud is not always a one-size-fits-all solution and that certain systems need a specific release in order to have working audio at all. By that definition, it can't be considered legacy if it is a core component for, by our use-case, a modern platform.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 16, 2021, 03:23:17 pm
Hi

About Uniaud, I will keep thinking about it for some days.

For the moment I'm reorganizing and relocating the easy stuff that is obliviously located on the wrong place, like just over "/pub/os2/apps",  "/pub/os2/util" and "/pub/os2/games".

Where should I put pdfmerge (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?search=pdfmerge)? I'm not sure if it goes to "/pub/os2/apps/wp"

Also PMPrintf (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?search=PMPrintf&stype=any&sort=type_name&dir=%2F) seems to be a different versions in different locations. I guess the right place is "/pub/os2/dev/util".

Remember that there is a backup of hobbes (2021-05) on a couple locations.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andi B. on June 16, 2021, 03:30:18 pm
...
Also PMPrintf (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?search=PMPrintf&stype=any&sort=type_name&dir=%2F) seems to be a different versions in different locations. I guess the right place is "/pub/os2/dev/util".
...
Yes. And this was always the desired directory. (
Code: [Select]
"Proposed directory  /pub/os2/dev/util"). No clue why it ended up in wrong places.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Harald Kamm on June 16, 2021, 09:42:59 pm
Sorry to interfere in the debate. I appreciate the idea to create and serve an OS/2 file archive. But what I really don't understand is why Hobbes is flooded with outdated files the had been deleted at the time creating much confusion.

Best, Harald
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Roderick Klein on June 16, 2021, 11:45:42 pm
1) Only keep the latest one.
2) Keep the main releases of Uniaud, not the development or preview releases.

keep all development or preview releases in archive sub dir

rumors said  that early builds of uniaud  supported multi channel sound  on some hardware. current uniaud has lost this ability  -  so old builds  may help to find out when this ability went away.

Best I can tell the only driver (on which UNIAUD is based) is the SB live driver that supported multi channel support.
The minstall setup for UNIAUD has always been for single channel best I tell.
You need to setup MMOS2 and tell it how many streams an audio device supports. Can anybody confirm this ? Or have I got this wrong.

The point with MMOS2 is that all hardware that is supported in the old versions is supported in the the latest version of UNIAUD.
And all UNIAUD versions will require Warp 4 + Fixpak 13 and higher. Has a 32 bit driver.

Roderick
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 17, 2021, 03:27:44 am
Sorry to interfere in the debate. I appreciate the idea to create and serve an OS/2 file archive. But what I really don't understand is why Hobbes is flooded with outdated files the had been deleted at the time creating much confusion.

Hi Harald.

To move, rename, or improve descriptions of the hobbes files, you need to upload them to the incoming directory. For the moment I haven't get any other way to improve hobbes directly from other place.

"flooded with outdated files the had been deleted at the time", what do you mean? please specify the file.
If it is about old drivers, I already explain it in past posts (and the latest drivers I uploaded are the same that were already at hobbes with an improved name and description). If it is about software, I'm reorganizing some file and re-uploading the last version of  software that is already there, usually to move it to the right directory.

Also, for people checking the incoming directory, check also the .txt file where I put the release date of the file.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 17, 2021, 08:00:54 pm
Where should I put pdfmerge (https://hobbes.nmsu.edu/?search=pdfmerge)? I'm not sure if it goes to "/pub/os2/apps/wp"
Maybe it should go on "/pub/os2/apps/wp/convert"
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 03, 2021, 06:45:32 pm
Hi

I had been trying for the last couple of months to reorganize some OS/2 files on hobbes.
The reasons and motivations (with the discussion) can be find on this thread.

I had been slowly doing some progress, and it is going to take a long time.

The premises are:
- A full hobbes backup is already at archive.org and OS2Site. (Before the changes)
- In the case of applications (not drivers), I'm only leaving on hobbes the latest version. Older versions are in the backups and hopefully in the future it may be organized somewhere else like OS2site. It will be like having one repository for the latest files version (hobbes) and other one with everything (old and new) (OS2Site and Archive.org).
- I'm trying to identify the version number and date of each application to include it clearly on the short description so users will know how old is the software at first hand.
- I'm also changing the file names, to try to include a better naming for the files. Ex: There were files like "os2.zip" or "warp.zip" that sometimes don't tell you what it is.

- I'm sorry, but the process is slow, I have to go file by file and create the .txt file for it. And I need to use the incoming directory to update hobbes, I have no other way as far as I know. I'm sorry to put so many files on that directory, specially for the people like to always check on it for newer software releases.

- For the moment I'm focusing on "/apps", "/utils" and "/multimedia". I will not look into /info and /dev yet.

- Don't get angry and start calling me names if you don't like that some file is is not named or located in where you want. Let's discuss the rationale of that and see if we can get some agreement.

- If there is any older version of a software that I removed and it will be very important to maintain, please let me know which one and why, so we document that. Also remember that those files are on the hobbes backup and OS2site.

- I'm not sure if I'm ever going to finish this. Technically is easy, no brainer, but it takes a lot of time to go file by file and complete the .txt files. And I also play a little bit with the old software, take some screenshot for the wiki, if it is possible.

For the moment I had complete the reorganization these directories:
    /pub/os2/apps/diary
    /pub/os2/apps/speech
    /pub/os2/apps/mmedia/cd/player
    /pub/os2/apps/mmedia/radio
    /pub/os2/apps/mmedia/TV
    /pub/os2/apps/mmedia/scheme
    /pub/os2/util/optical
    /pub/os2/util/batch


I had been working on moving files that I consider that are in the wrong folders, like icons, pointers on the /util, by creating newer categories for it.

I still need help on somethings like:

1) The directories "apps/graphics", "apps/multimedia" and "apps/internet" offers a challenge since there are big subcategories.

I even think that "apps/internet" is no longer as understandable as it was before, since now the internet is a common thing and the meaning of having exclusive apps for the internet is getting lost. I will discuss this further, but suggestions are welcome.

2) The "misc" directories are also something that need to be reviewed with more detail, since some files can be put on the right category, but for the uploader it was easy to put it on "/util/misc/" or "apps/misc" instead of finding the right place for it. I don't mean those folders shouldn't exist, but a double check into its contents will be good to see if there can be a better place.

3) Please let me know if by any chance I had reorganized some old software, and there is a newer version available.

4) I'm still not sure what to do with X11 (XFree86) software. Should I leave it on the same directory or should we create a new structure for X11? And/Or include on the file name "GameName_X11_1-0.zip" or "GameName_1-0_X11.zip"

5) Something more specific will be:
5.1) Suggestions on where should I put the applications for remote control? VNC? Desktop On Call? HelpDesk?
5.2) Suggestions on where should I put the applications  for file sharing? like torrent, Napster, etc?
5.3) What about the xcenter widgets? Should it be on a folder for xcenter widgets? or should each one goes on the belonging category folder of what it does?

If there is someone else, that would like to do the same (reorganize and upload files to hobbes) with DOS, Win16 and Win32 (Odin) and Java freeware software that runs on OS/2, maybe adding some extra .cmd and documentation to make it easy for OS/2 users to run, let me know.

Like always, help is welcome.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Andreas Schnellbacher on September 04, 2021, 12:38:32 am
I agree. It shows that every classification needs to be maintained. Some thoughts:

To 1)

apps/internet is really not useful nowadays. OTOH has it useful subdirs (protocols) that makes it easy to find e.g. Thunderbird. apps/comm doesn't really make sense in a parallel dir.

apps/graphics and apps/multimedia: Use either a few (max. 10) more top-level dirs or many same-level dirs, but not both. It depends on the structure you have for this. I prefer more the first and wouldn't make it depend on what is now on Hobbes only. It's better to avoid trees with complete different amount of elements on the same level.

I would rather place the other smaller trees that have a too high level below useful top levels.

Another thing is single files in a dir that has other subdirs. Should they rather be placed in a "misc" dir below that? Then "misc" would make sense.

I guess you have already thought about most of them.

To 2)

These two misc dirs contain far too many items. I agree that most of them belong rather to other dirs.

To 5)

5.1) "remote". But rdesktop really in apps/internet/misc?
5.2) "filesharing"
5.3) "xworkplace\widgets"

(I prefer rather short names, but I always stumble about "wp" which should rather be "wordproc" and "dtp", IMO.)


Some other thoughts:

About Thunderbird: I would prefer to place Lightning beneath Thunderbird, not in apps/calendar. After moving them, the rest of app/calendar doesn't need such a high dir level.

About apps/wp: Acrobat Reader (not Distiller), IBM BookManager, PDFMerge and the GNU libs don't belong here. (I've just found that you've already mentioned PDFMerge in an earlier message.)

I'm not sure where to place programs and viewers an tools for special formats. I have here placed them in subdirs below "Format", but I don't like "Format" anymore. It's not that easy as it seems. Someone has to have a good idea for that.

About util: What's the criterion to place it here or in apps, esp. regarding the current contents of apps? I would drop that and move it rather to apps.

How is your planned structure?
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 04, 2021, 04:08:43 am
Thanks for the feedback Andreas.

How is your planned structure?
That is a good question. I don't have yet the final idea, since the idea changes according to the files and apps I found surfing hobbes. I think I will first write down the structure as it is, and work from it to post some planned structure.

apps/internet
...apps/graphics and apps/multimedia
Thanks for the feedback, I need more thoughts on it. But I won't make drastic changes yet until I get a clearer idea.

5.1) "remote". But rdesktop really in apps/internet/misc?
I think I'm going to start with "/pub/os2/util/remote" for it, and not put it on "/internet".

5.2) "filesharing"
I think I'm going to try "/pub/os2/apps/internet/filesharing" to reduce the number of files of "/pub/os2/apps/internet/misc"
5.3) "xworkplace\widgets"
Here I'm not sure if it is an app or an util.
- /pub/os2/util/wps/xwp/widgets
or
- /pub/os2/apps/wps/xwp/widgets
For what I know Xworkplace is more categorized as an utility instead of an application.

Quote
About Thunderbird: I would prefer to place Lightning beneath Thunderbird, not in apps/calendar. After moving them, the rest of app/calendar doesn't need such a high dir level.
I also share the idea that Lighting should be near Thunderbird, since it requires Thundebird to run.

Quote
About apps/wp: Acrobat Reader (not Distiller), IBM BookManager, PDFMerge and the GNU libs don't belong here. (I've just found that you've already mentioned PDFMerge in an earlier message.)
I also have some doubts here. On hobbes the "/pub/os2/apps/wp" description says "Word processing and desktop publishing".  I think that Acrobat, IBM BookManager and PDF related tools are "desktop publishing software", right? But I think that "desktop publishing" needs to be split from "/pub/os2/apps/wp"

I have no idea where to put the DLL runtimes yet. There are some on /dev and some on /apps. I'm not sure yet.

Quote
About util: What's the criterion to place it here or in apps, esp. regarding the current contents of apps? I would drop that and move it rather to apps.
The difference between Apps and Utils: For what I know and google says "Utility Software, as name suggests, is a software designed to perform particular tasks that help in making device perform better and keep environment safe." So, even that everything may be an application, "Utils" are software(applications) more related to make the OS work better to make it easier to administrate.


Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on September 04, 2021, 06:28:41 am
About Lightning, I can't even remember why I uploaded the older versions, packaging error or wanting to include gdata-provider and timezones, but those could go.
The newer versions seem to be all NLS versions, which somewhat surprises me as I would have thought applying a language pack would have updated lightning as well, but apparently not.
As Lightning is also a SeaMonkey add-on, I'd suggest a new directory, Mozilla add-ons or such. I have various other add-ons that I keep wondering about uploading to Hobbes. This includes some new ones such as ublock-origin's latest for XUL based browsers, which I had to patch for SeaMonkey (upstream refused to support our SeaMonkey)
About getting rid of old versions. Mostly I agree but there are exceptions. For the Mozilla apps for example, it seems that some people still use the 38ESR versions and I think they should also be left.
There's other examples where having multiple versions easily available is a good idea. GCC for example where some projects depend on older versions. XFree86, where ideally you have v4 and v3.31 both installed as v4 is missing some stuff that came with v3.x.
There's likely other examples, especially in dev where specific versions are needed and people are likely to expect them on Hobbes. Disk space is cheap.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 05, 2021, 11:25:28 pm
Hi Dave.
Thanks also for the feedback.

About getting rid of old versions. Mostly I agree but there are exceptions. For the Mozilla apps for example, it seems that some people still use the 38ESR versions and I think they should also be left.
I also agree that some Firefox 38ESR should remain in hobbes, but I still don't get there. There seems to many builds, and even if there is a full backup of all of those, I would need advice to know which one should remain there.

But I'm still not even sure of the location of the "Browser" directory. Currently it is on "/pub/os2/apps/internet/www/browser" and I think that the "internet" and "www" categories are no longer understood as it were on the past. Maybe it should only be "/pub/os2/apps/browser" or "/pub/os2/apps/internet/browser"

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on September 05, 2021, 11:44:40 pm
For the various Mozilla apps, the latest of each architecture is probably fine.
As for the browser, it is even worse as only Firefox is a pure browser. SeaMonkey is a browser and email (and news and IRC and composer) client and even Thunderbird is quite capable of acting as a browser as well as newsgroups and various chat protocols such as IRC.
Perhaps they all should be under  "/pub/os2/apps/internet/apps" or  "/pub/os2/apps/internet/mozilla" or "mozilla/apps"
It is awkward when programs have various uses but to me it seems FF, SM and TB should be in the same place or better, symlinked or hard linked to a couple of locations.
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 06, 2021, 12:07:34 am
"/pub/os2/apps/internet/mozilla" or "mozilla/apps"
I'm trying to set a rule of not putting directory names about brands and/or products (even that sometimes I break that rule), and I want to make the directory names about what the software is for like "e-mail", "browser", but you are right about where do we put SeaMonkey or the Netscape suite... maybe under browser since it is mainly know it for that.

Ex: I don't like "/pub/os2/apps/internet/notes" that is "Lotus Notes" related. Also Lotus Notes works on the Internet and on a intranet, so putting it under "/internet" does not looks good today. Maybe the Lotus Notes files should be under "e-mail" since it is known for that function.

I still want to write down some proposed directory structure. The "/pub/os2/apps/internet/" still does not click for me (today).

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 06, 2021, 12:26:07 am

FYI: Here it is the current structure:

Code: [Select]
├───apps
│   ├───analysis
│   ├───calc
│   ├───calendar
│   ├───clock
│   ├───comm
│   │   ├───ansmach
│   │   ├───bbs
│   │   │   ├───adeptxbbs
│   │   │   ├───door
│   │   │   ├───maximus
│   │   │   └───util
│   │   ├───fax
│   │   ├───fossil
│   │   ├───offline
│   │   ├───term
│   │   └───transfer
│   ├───database
│   ├───diary
│   ├───editors
│   │   ├───emacs
│   │   └───epm
│   ├───emulator
│   ├───graphics
│   │   ├───animate
│   │   ├───cad
│   │   ├───convert
│   │   ├───draw
│   │   ├───fractal
│   │   ├───gimp
│   │   ├───imagepro
│   │   ├───irit
│   │   ├───paint
│   │   ├───plot
│   │   ├───presentation
│   │   ├───ray
│   │   │   └───pov
│   │   ├───scan
│   │   ├───scrncapt
│   │   └───viewer
│   ├───internet
│   │   ├───archie
│   │   │   └───client
│   │   ├───chat
│   │   ├───dialer
│   │   ├───dynip
│   │   ├───ftp
│   │   │   ├───client
│   │   │   ├───server
│   │   │   └───util
│   │   ├───irc
│   │   │   ├───client
│   │   │   ├───script
│   │   │   ├───server
│   │   │   └───util
│   │   ├───mail
│   │   │   ├───list
│   │   │   ├───reader
│   │   │   │   ├───mr2i
│   │   │   │   └───pmm
│   │   │   ├───server
│   │   │   └───util
│   │   ├───mirror
│   │   │   ├───ftp
│   │   │   └───www
│   │   ├───misc
│   │   ├───mud
│   │   │   ├───client
│   │   │   └───server
│   │   ├───news
│   │   │   ├───reader
│   │   │   ├───server
│   │   │   └───util
│   │   ├───notes
│   │   ├───ppp
│   │   ├───suite
│   │   ├───telnet
│   │   │   ├───client
│   │   │   └───server
│   │   ├───time
│   │   ├───util
│   │   ├───uucp
│   │   └───www
│   │       ├───browser
│   │       ├───cgi
│   │       ├───editors
│   │       ├───server
│   │       ├───util
│   │       └───vrml
│   ├───math
│   │   ├───euler
│   │   └───octave
│   ├───misc
│   ├───mmedia
│   │   ├───cd
│   │   │   ├───cd-r
│   │   │   ├───grabber
│   │   │   └───player
│   │   ├───codec
│   │   ├───jukebox
│   │   ├───misc
│   │   ├───music
│   │   │   ├───midi
│   │   │   │   ├───editors
│   │   │   │   ├───keyboard
│   │   │   │   ├───players
│   │   │   │   └───util
│   │   │   ├───misc
│   │   │   └───mod
│   │   │       ├───players
│   │   │       └───util
│   │   ├───scheme
│   │   ├───sound
│   │   │   ├───convert
│   │   │   ├───editors
│   │   │   ├───players
│   │   │   └───util
│   │   ├───TV
│   │   ├───util
│   │   │   ├───mixers
│   │   │   └───patch
│   │   └───video
│   │       ├───capture
│   │       ├───convert
│   │       └───players
│   ├───money
│   ├───pim
│   ├───religion
│   ├───science
│   │   ├───ai
│   │   ├───astro
│   │   ├───biology
│   │   ├───chem
│   │   ├───ee
│   │   ├───human
│   │   ├───phys
│   │   └───robot
│   │       └───mindstorm
│   ├───scrnsave
│   ├───speech
│   ├───spell
│   ├───spread
│   ├───suite
│   ├───wp
│   │   ├───convert
│   │   └───tex
│   │       ├───betatest
│   │       ├───emtex
│   │       ├───psfonts
│   │       └───util
│   └───wps
│       ├───xfolder
│       └───xworkplace
├───dev
│   ├───16-bit
│   ├───32-bit
│   ├───ada
│   ├───asm
│   ├───awk
│   ├───basic
│   ├───c
│   ├───codec
│   ├───cplusplus
│   │   └───patches
│   ├───database
│   ├───dive
│   ├───dll
│   ├───dos
│   ├───drivers
│   ├───emx
│   │   ├───contrib
│   │   │   ├───bison
│   │   │   ├───g77
│   │   │   ├───gcc
│   │   │   └───gnat
│   │   ├───v0.9c
│   │   └───v0.9d
│   ├───forth
│   ├───fortran
│   ├───help
│   ├───icon
│   ├───info
│   │   └───msjournal
│   ├───jscript
│   ├───lisp
│   ├───misc
│   ├───mm
│   ├───modula
│   ├───orexx
│   ├───pascal
│   ├───perl
│   ├───pm
│   ├───python
│   ├───rexx
│   │   ├───patches
│   │   └───vxtech
│   ├───SDL
│   ├───smalltalk
│   ├───tcl
│   ├───unix
│   ├───util
│   ├───wps
│   └───x11
│       └───gtk
├───doc
│   └───OpenGL
├───games
│   ├───action
│   │   ├───doom
│   │   └───quake
│   ├───adventure
│   ├───board
│   │   ├───checkers
│   │   └───chess
│   ├───casino
│   ├───educ
│   ├───mahjongg
│   ├───misc
│   ├───network
│   ├───patches
│   ├───puzzle
│   ├───rogue
│   ├───sport
│   ├───strategy
│   │   └───galciv
│   ├───toys
│   ├───txtadv
│   └───word
├───info
│   ├───faq
│   ├───forum
│   ├───newsltr
│   │   ├───connect
│   │   ├───dsn
│   │   ├───edm
│   │   ├───gamerev
│   │   ├───hhgos2
│   │   ├───midwest
│   │   ├───mm
│   │   ├───mn
│   │   ├───mnth
│   │   ├───pros
│   │   ├───sd
│   │   ├───tmb
│   │   ├───tmos2
│   │   ├───to2
│   │   ├───voice
│   │   └───warpfl
│   └───tips
├───system
│   ├───drivers
│   │   ├───APM
│   │   ├───cdrom
│   │   ├───CPU
│   │   ├───filesys
│   │   ├───irda
│   │   ├───misc
│   │   ├───modem
│   │   ├───mouse
│   │   ├───network
│   │   ├───PCCard
│   │   ├───printer
│   │   ├───scanner
│   │   ├───scsi
│   │   ├───serial
│   │   ├───sound
│   │   ├───storage
│   │   ├───TV
│   │   ├───usb
│   │   └───video
│   ├───patches
│   │   ├───fixpack
│   │   │   ├───v2.x
│   │   │   ├───warp_3
│   │   │   └───warp_4
│   │   │       ├───xr_m001
│   │   │       ├───xr_m004
│   │   │       ├───xr_m005
│   │   │       ├───xr_m013
│   │   │       └───xr_m014
│   │   ├───installer
│   │   ├───mixed
│   │   ├───v2.x
│   │   ├───warp_3
│   │   └───warp_4
│   └───x11
│       ├───term
│       ├───wm
│       └───XFree86
│           ├───v3.1
│           ├───v3.2
│           ├───v3.3
│           └───v3.3.1
├───util
│   ├───archiver
│   ├───backup
│   ├───batch
│   ├───benchmark
│   ├───browser
│   ├───clipbrd
│   ├───config
│   ├───convert
│   ├───disk
│   ├───encrypt
│   ├───file
│   ├───font
│   ├───international
│   │   └───chinese
│   ├───keyboard
│   ├───macro
│   ├───mboard
│   ├───memory
│   ├───misc
│   ├───mouse
│   │   └───amptr
│   ├───network
│   │   ├───lansrv
│   │   ├───ndis
│   │   ├───netware
│   │   └───tcpip
│   ├───optical
│   ├───patches
│   ├───power
│   ├───printer
│   │   └───ghost
│   ├───process
│   ├───schedule
│   ├───shell
│   ├───startup
│   ├───system
│   ├───virus
│   └───wps
└───win32os2
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 08, 2021, 04:37:54 pm
Hi

Even that I don't want to touch "/dev" yet, I'm thinking on moving "/pub/os2/apps/internet/www/editors" to something like "/pub/os2/dev/webauthoring"

Update: Or maybe just "/pub/os2/dev/web" which may mean Web Author or Web Development.

Regards
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Dave Yeo on September 09, 2021, 02:24:17 am
It seems to me they should be kept under apps. While it's true you can stretch html composers/editors to call them developer stuff, they're really aimed at regular users who want to throw together a web page. I wouldn't expect to find them under dev/
Title: Re: Hobbes (Files) Reoganization
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 16, 2021, 06:06:34 pm
Hi

I think that the first stage of the hobbes reoganization (the first stage in my head) is almost ready. It was to rename and relocate some programs that where in the main category of some directories. For example there was a lot of stuff on "/pub/os2/util", "/pub/os2/apps", "/pub/os2/apps/graphics", "/pub/os2/apps/mmedia", etc, that were relocated to the correct directory. There are still something missing, like "/pub/os2/apps/comm" that is a mess.

The other things was to try to remove the excess of same apps with different version on hobbes (remember that we have backups). It still a work in progress.

Now I will focus on the super boring task of trying to rename and if possible reorganize some the apps. It is so boring that I prefer not doing it on a straight forward order, that's why my uploads seems so random. These will take some months.

Regards