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Messages - Doug Bissett

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1546
DVDDAO is supposed to have support for BlueRay, but I don't know if it works.
It works, really... I'm wrote some disks on 8x speed (36Mb/s) - on PC with danis... Nice result for 14 years old system and 16bit SATA driver ;)

Thanks for that. Can you read the BlueRay disks with OS/2 (eCS)?

1547
Programming / Re: Rexx?
« on: March 20, 2013, 09:12:55 pm »
I think you may have read me a little unclear, I was referring to the taskbar. It's called the WPS isn't it? I know that the CPU load widget is the whole system though, either way, you still gave me some valuable information.  thanks again, I appreciate it.

Update, just to be sure, this is what you meant?

There is no "taskbar" as such. There is the eCenter (XCenter) bar, which sort of works like the windows taskbar.  The Extended System Tray widget adds more of the function of the windows task bar to the eCenter (XCenter) bar.

WPS is a program that runs under the Presentation Manager, which is really the GUI that OS/2 uses. WPS adds a lot of function to the Presentation Manager, and the WPS itself is further extended by eWorkPlace, which is a sub set of the full blown XWorkPlace. Most OS/2 GUI programs run under the Presentation Manager (which is why many programs are called PM<something or other>). The WPS can also be programmed (extended) if it makes sense to do that for a particular reason.

Older versions of OS/2 use a different thing called "WarpCenter" (if I remember correctly), which is not nearly as flexible as eCenter.  Before that (in warp3) there was the Toolbar, which was quite different, and really had a different purpose. They all work in eCS, but usually only the eCenter bar is used. WarpCenter (AKA eComCenter) is known to have some bugs, and the Toolbar takes up a lot of screen real estate.

I would guess, that you are trying to do something similar to what the windows Gadgets do. If so, you are probably on the right track, but it would be better to use VXREXX, or DrDialog, to create a GUI window with whatever you want in it. That, of course, is even more complicated, and does involve a "learning curve".

1548
Programming / Re: Rexx?
« on: March 20, 2013, 06:15:27 pm »
Quote
Posting from eCS, since Virtualbox doesn't wanna transfer clipboards between guest and host. lol

You need to install the VBox additions. It works a little different from installing in a windows client. Click on (VBox menu) Devices, then Install Guest Additions. In windows, that will start an installer in the client. In OS/2 (eCS), it simply attaches a virtual CD, so you need to open the CD. Then, look in the OS2 directory. There are instructions that you need to follow.

Quote
f you're unsure of what I'm doing, I'm trying to make widget similar to the one that tells me the current cpu load on the desktop shell?( or should I say Workspace shell?)

Neither is right. The CPU load widget shows the whole system load, not just for Presentation Manager, and/or the Workplace Shell.

You need one of the REXX widgets for eCenter (XCenter) from: http://www.os2usr.org/xcenter/. READ the instructions that comes with them. Depending on what you want to do, one of them should do it for you.

BTW, since you seem to want to use up valuable space in the eCenter (XCenter) bar, you should realize that you can have two bars. One at the top of the screen, and the other at the bottom. Go to Programs-> Utilities and copy the eCenter icon to something like eCenter1, then put a shadow of that into the startup folder. When it starts, it will be on top of the original eCenter bar. Right mouse click on an empty spot (or jamb the cursor hard against the right end, if there is no blank spot), and open the Properties. One of the settings is Top or Bottom. Select Top, and the new bar will appear at the top, with the old bar at the bottom. Then, you should delete any duplicated widgets, and adjust both bars to your own preferences. Don't worry about "you can't undo this". You can, but any settings, or contents, for the individual widgets will need to be recreated if you put them back.

You should also look up the REXX help, to see what the options are for RxMessageBox. "EXCLAMATION" is probably not the best icon for your popup window (which you probably won't use anyway, with the REXX widgets).

Have fun...

1549
Networking / Re: Wireless
« on: March 20, 2013, 04:52:33 pm »
There are a number of different files in the GENMAC, GENMU, and GENMU_TEST packages. I don't know what you have tried (other than the ones packaged for your specific device). Some of the others might be compatible. As I said, Intel seems to be pretty consistent with the hardware, so it may be worth trying any Intel driver, for a similar device. You can, easily, unpack the WPI files using WPIView: ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/vxapps/wpiview/wpiview110.wpi. You can also try mixing, and matching, INF and REG files, but that is not likely to make a difference until you actually get it to load the driver successfully. An empty REG, or INF, file will cause the driver to use all of the defaults. That will usually work (if it will work at all), but may not be an ideal setup.

You should put a file named AltF2on.$$$ in the root of your boot drive. That will effectively do an Alt-F2 at the boot blob, always, so you can see where it actually stops. From your description, I would guess that it stops at NETBIND.EXE,  but it could be when XWLAN gets started, which is a different problem. If it is actually when XWLAN gets started, just remove the XWLAN widget from the eCenter bar, or remove XWLAN  from the startup folder, so it doesn't start. Then, you can do more investigation to see which of the many problems you have. To get booted, when it hangs, just use an alternate boot method, and REM the GENM32W.OS2 line in CONFIG.SYS, temporarily.

FWIW, a hard hang is usually caused by some sort of IRQ problem, but it could be something else.

Have fun...

1550
Programming / Re: Rexx?
« on: March 19, 2013, 11:52:28 pm »
You are jumping in a little too fast. REXX is actually fairly easy, but there are two versions. One is known as "Classic REXX", which is the default. There is also "Object REXX" which needs to be set up by the user. It is usually one, or the other, but not both, although there is a way to do both. I assume that you are still using "Classic REXX".

Next, you picked a more advanced function with RxMessageBox. It does need some extra things to make it work.

There are also a few more advanced REXX packages, that help to make GUI interfaces. VXREXX, and DrDialog, are the two that I remember. I use DrDialog, but VXREXX is probably a better choice, since the support is already in eCS (I am not sure if the programmer package is included).

Quote
So if I have a Rexx widget in my taskbar and tell it to "say Linein( 'file1' )" and file1 contains "Hello, Larry!" would I see that on the taskbar?

Not the way you are doing it. There are some widgets that support REXX code, but what you did would simply start the program in a window. There is also a widget to add an "Extended system tray", which does some of the things that the windows taskbar does. AFAIK, the only things that actually use that, are some programs that have been ported using the QT4 package, and some JAVA programs.

If your quoted code is what you tried, it isn't likely to work. First, to tell the command processor to decode  REXX command file, it needs to start with a comment line. That is the first two characters, in the first line, need to be "/*" ( slash asterisk, without the quotes). That is usually followed by a description of what the program is, and the comment is closed by "*/" (asterisk slash, without the quotes). If that is not found, the command processor attempts to treat it like a normal batch file (pretty much like DOS).

Then, you need to load the appropriate support module(s), which is one of the reasons why RxMessageBox isn't working. Add this sequence:

Code: [Select]
/* Load the rexxUtil functions -------------------------------------------- */
call RxFuncAdd 'SysLoadFuncs', 'RexxUtil', 'SysLoadFuncs'
call SysLoadFuncs

Which loads the functions, including RxMessageBox. Be aware, that this is a system wide load, so any program can use it, as long as it stays loaded. Proper practice dictates that you should unload that stuff, when you are finished with it. In real life, if you do that, and some other REXX program is using it, it goes away, and the other program will die. The fix is: do NOT unload it. You should always load it to be sure that your program has access, just in case it is the first program that needs it. There are more function  libraries available, but you should stay with the simple stuff to start.

Then, add your line of code. Now, you can run that from a command line, or from a program icon, or, put the program icon in the eCenter bar, and it will open a text window, and do what you asked.

At this point RxMessageBox still won't work, because it needs to be run by  a program that is capable of doing a graphical presentation. The easiest program is PMREXX. Create a file called HelloLarry.cmd, and insert this code:
Code: [Select]
/* Hello Larry */

/* Load the rexxUtil functions -------------------------------------------- */
call RxFuncAdd 'SysLoadFuncs', 'RexxUtil', 'SysLoadFuncs'
call SysLoadFuncs

Do until RxMessageBox("Hello Larry","Testing","OK","EXCLAMATION") = 1
end

EXIT

Now go to a command line, in the directory where you saved the HelloLarry.cmd file, and type "PMREXX /Q HelloLarry". It will open the PMREXX window (which may hide behind other things), and pop up the message window. When you click OK, it will close (PMREXX would stay open, without the "/Q" parameter).

Of course, this is pretty simple, and it contains no checking, but it is a start.

1551
Applications / Re: Odin
« on: March 19, 2013, 10:41:26 pm »
Beside the Libpath there is also the beginlibpath and endlibpath which can be set (though are not technically environment variables) before launching an application. 

Theoretically, these should always work, but in practice, I have seen a couple of programs that ignore them. I don't remember which ones, but I think they may have been ports from linux. The only answer, that I know about, is to put the directory into the Libpath, and reboot.

Thanks both of you. I know a bit about how dynamic link libraries work. Usually dlls work in the application folder or actual system locations, like C:\WINDOWS\System32 At least that's how Windows has always worked, so what you two are telling me isn't completely foreign to me. eCS seems to work in a similar way, which makes things a bit easier.

As I pointed out before, OS/2 and WinNT (and up) are from the same roots, so there are similarities. Windows seems to be a bit more forgiving if you mix DLL versions though.

1552
Applications / Re: Odin
« on: March 19, 2013, 04:53:14 pm »
Wait, I didn't think it were possible to be in a worse Dll hell than Windows? You are probably referring to putting dll's in C:\ecs\dll ? or C:\OS2\dll?
Edit: sorry, it's 1am, haha. Case of the Monday.. Tuesday.. damn it. I understand now. The Library should be installed properly, but I've already installed GCC4.3.3 as a wpl. (Properly I think), it's all good. Just happened to use the first google response for libc064. Installed those two wpls and removed all dll files I manually put in.

Remember that windows, and OS/2 are from the same roots.

It has become customary for eCS users to put the base OS/2 DLLs into \OS2\DLL, and to put additional "system wide" DLLs into \eCS\DLL. OS/2 (non-eCS) does not have a \eCS\DLL directory, so they put additional "system wide" DLLs into \OS2\DLL. It is only a way to manage the location, and make sure that duplicates don't exist. They can be anywhere, as long as the location is in LIBPATH in CONFIG.SYS, and the location is permanently available to the system.

It is also customary, but not essential, to keep program specific DLLs somewhere in the program directory. The dot ".;" entry in LIBPATH says to look in the current path (usually the Working directory, as defined in the program icon properties), for DLLs. That way, the DLLs can be found without having to put that specific path into the LIBPATH statement. Also, be aware that some program installers include things like Libc064.DLL (the real one), and they need to be removed so you don't have duplicates.

"DLL HELL" can be the result, if you put something like Libc064.DLL (the real one, not the forwarder) into the program directory (for instance). The program will probably work okay, but that may depend on which Libc064.DLL gets loaded first. Once those things get loaded, they usually never get released, and any other program that needs them just uses what is already loaded. So, sometimes, you may be using the forwarder, and sometimes the real thing. It shouldn't make any difference in that case (but it can). It gets more complicated when you try to run Firefox, and Thunderbird, at the same time. They each have a common DLL name, but the actual DLLs are different. That requires other techniques to work around. The program RUN! is the best answer. Search for RUN! at HOBBES http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/. I think the instructions should be good. You can also look up LIBPATHSTRICT which changes the rules, but needs to be used properly, or other problems can be caused.

1553
Applications / Re: Odin
« on: March 19, 2013, 06:15:32 am »
I should have mentioned, that the package that you installed is the older Libc064 developer package. That is not what you really want, although it probably contains the DLL that you need. I would suggest removing that stuff from the Mozilla folders. You do NOT want more than ONE each of those DLLs, or you might get into a situation known as "DLL HELL".

1554
Applications / Re: Odin
« on: March 19, 2013, 06:08:17 am »
Libc06x is a little unusual. You need to do the updates properly, or it will screw up. You need to use the latest set, which includes older DLL versions, but the older DLL versions are converted to "forwarder" DLLs. That is if a program was written to use Libc062.dll, it needs to find Libc062.dll. When you have Libc065.dll installed properly, there will be a Libc062.dll, that forwards any requests to Libc065.dll. The same goes for the other Libc06x dlls. When (if) Libc066 is made available, I expect that it will replace the full Libc065.dll with a forwarder dll (but there is no guarantee that the whole thing won't change - you need to read the instructions.

There is another set of common dlls for GCC. Those do not forward. If a program needs GCC433.DLL, for instance, you must have GCC433.DLL available. It does not forward requests.

Having said all of that, I recommend getting ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/libc/libc-0_6_5-csd5.wpi and ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/libc/gcc4core-1_2_1.wpi which are WarpIN installers for what you normally need. Just download the files, and double click on them (one at a time), WarpIN will offer to install them for you. All of the files should be properly installed, with no guessing. Many programs use those DLLs.

1555
Games / Re: Mahjonng Solitaire 2.20
« on: March 19, 2013, 05:52:18 am »
I set 2GB ram for this guest OS. I also looked around in the settings, I pushed animation speed up to full, it seems to be a tad better, will try disabling it. This PC is AMD Phenom II 550BE, 4GB 1333Mhz DDR3 ram, Ati Radeon HD 6570 2GB, so I have some memory and power to go around, provided it actually wants to use it. lol Update: It does seem to run better without animations.

I've got a lot of AMD equipment, this try-out of OS/2 will help me determine if I want to put this on an AMD Athlon XP 1.4Ghz, 756MB ram, Ati Rage 128Pro(8xAGP).

Actually, 1 GB of RAM is probably more than you will ever use with eCS in in VBox., but 2 GB is not a problem.

That AMD machine should work well with eCS I have a similar machine, with 448 meg, an 800 mhz Athlon, and an ATI Rage Pro video. Use SNAP with that video card, and it should run in accelerated mode. In my case, 448 meg is really not quite enough for great performance. 756 meg should be pretty good, even with animations (which, along with sound, I find to be annoying). BTW, if you haven't noticed, Mahjonng, and Klondike solitaire, might take over the sound card, blocking other sounds. It depends on exactly what sound card is emulated, and which sound driver you use.

1556
Games / Re: Mahjonng Solitaire 2.20
« on: March 18, 2013, 10:06:31 pm »
Is there a way to make Mahjonng Solitaire 2.20 render/play smoother over Virtualbox? I'm using 3D hardware acceleration(But I doubt that actually effects anything on the eCS 2 end).
I also am allowing 128MB out of my 2GB graphics card to be utilized. Doesn't seem to change rendering smoothness.

3D probably just gets ignored, but it may actually slow it down. I think that OS/2 only uses 32 meg of video memory, no matter how much you assign. If you install the VBox extensions, it might work a little better. You should also adjust the Mahjonng settings. I usually turn off animation, which makes it much better, even on real hardware. Also, be sure that you assign enough memory so that the program doesn't end up swapping. That will really cause performance problems. I find that 512 meg is about the minimum that you want to use, and 800 meg is almost always good.

1557
Applications / Re: Odin
« on: March 18, 2013, 09:52:06 pm »
Simple question really. I have Odin installed, but don't know how to use it. The documentation tells me all these nifty things it can do, but not how, maybe I am a bit .. slow?
I really like Mahjong.. but I'd like to do a bit "more".

Personally, the only reason I install ODIN, is because FLASH, and JAVA, require the libraries.

However, usually you can do:
PE.exe awindows .exe parameters
and it will attempt to start the awindows program. If the program is simple enough, is 32 bit, and doesn't rely on other things, it might work. Usually you will find that it needs other windows support, that is not in ODIN.

There are other commands, but that works as well as any that I ever tried. ODIN has been updated recently, but it never did work very well to run windows programs. The main use today, is that OS/2 programs can use the  libraries.

If you look around, you can find a number of games. Search for games at: http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/ You will find many other things there too.

1558
Thanks again Doug. I know about GPL software such as WINE. There was another one too, but it became a pay-for software after a few beta releases. Anything you have to "pay for" on Linux I tend to ignore pretty quickly. IBM? 1992? Doesn't retiring at a young age mean you quit or they laid you off? Or did you win the lottery? Haha.

It was a bit of every one of them.  :D   At the time, IBM was downsizing, and they made all employees an offer I couldn't refuse. I don't think they realized that I had enough time in to qualify for early retirement, and expected me to stay. Fooled them.   :)

Having some issues running eCS right now in VirtualBox, but going to try a few things before I try a more updated beta/demo version.
(I've determined SNAP works, Panorama hates it.)

It is usually better to install using GRADD for video, because the extensions (to integrate the eCS desktop to the host desktop) simply replaces the GRADD driver.

If you're curious as the what issues I'm having. First it froze up VB after Phase 1, I tweaked a few settings, got to almost the end of Phase 2. But when I woke up this morning after seeing it boot up, and having a desktop before I went to sleep, it boots past the graphical logo to get an error: "The system detected an internal processing error at location ##0168:fff1da1f - 000e:ca1f". So I'm going to try HPFS instead of JFS. If it fails this time, I'm going to see if I can effectively "skip" phase 2.

Phase 2 installs most of the stuff that you need.

Update: as of 10am(EST), I now have a working install. I don't know why VB/eCS worked better with HPFS as opposed to JFS, but it did. Didn't tweak too many of the settings in the installer, besides making sure it was just using IDE. It had "Floppy" set on USB, which I don't have a floppy usb drive, so I set that to 0.

The floppy setting is not important. It puts a zombie floppy drive into the Drives object, that does nothing, until you plug in a USB floppy drive, if it is set to 1. 

I remember that I used HPFS for the boot volume, and it works fine. If you create a second drive, in the virtual disk, it works properly with JFS.  I think that VBox has some sort of incompatible setup that the OS2 loader doesn't comprehend when used with JFS, but I never followed up on that. It seems to be a fault in VBox, because booting from JFS on real drives works well.

1559
Networking / Re: Wireless
« on: March 18, 2013, 09:02:08 pm »
Thanks Martin.

I will have a go at this late tonight/tomorrow.  The first challenge is to convert the inf or cat files (I do not remember which one at the moment) to reg files.  Anyone remember where instructions for this conversion can be found?  Once I am done, I will post a response here on how things work, and if successful, what I did.

May the force be with me / Eirik

Don't even bother trying to convert INF files to REG files. If you do anything with an INF file, just change PROTOCOL.INI and \IBMCOM\macs\GENM32W.OS2 (it is the only one that is used), to point to the INF file, instead of the REG file. However, you will probably find that the INF files don't contain anything except the templates to create the registry entries. As such, they won't be used. The only good part about that is, that everything will default, which sometimes works okay. CAT files are never used by GENMAC. I suggest just using the REG files that you already have, since they were extracted from somebodies registry, after the device was configured.

1560
Quote
Who, and why would people argue about you being knowledgeable?

I will let that one rest. There are a couple of people who seem to think I should just shut up, and go away. Oh well, I can ignore them.

Quote
There are a few things important to me, and I'd say it's Flash, Java, and multimedia support. My main PC has a Super-Multi bluray player. I have a feeling eCS won't support it(yet anyway). I know there is a VLC port, so I could run DVD media, and possibly some video formats. But X264 / avc? Not sure. I know VLC has everything, but if it doesn't support my graphics card's capabilities it probably won't be so easy. But, like I said, going to try it anyways. I don't like Mac OS, but I don't hate it either. Everyone has their own likes, preferences, and needs.

We have an almost "latest" FLASH, and JAVA. They use a lot of support that was created for the ODIN project (which is based on WINE, if you know about that). Both seem to have a few quirks, but that seems to be true in windows too.

To be honest, I don't know if BlueRay will work, or not. I think my CD/DVD drive is also BlueRay capable, but I don't think I have ever seen a BlueRay disk, never mind try to use one. DVDDAO is supposed to have support for BlueRay, but I don't know if it works. VLC is available, and it seems to work pretty well. I am also not too sure about X264. I think there is a program to do that, but I have never tried it. I also don't know about avc. We do have FFMPEG which seems to do a credible job of format conversion, but doesn't support everything. The biggest "problem" seems to be with Microsoft proprietary codecs. They just aren't available for non MS operating  systems.

Graphics card... Well, it depends on exactly what it is, but my bet would be that it is too new to be supported by an accelerated driver (read SNAP). That doesn't mean that it won't do a reasonable job, in a lot of cases.  There are two main video drivers. One is called SNAP (was SDD - Scietech Display Doctor -  at one time), but development on that stopped a few years ago. It will support many newer cards, but only in VESA 2 mode, which is pretty slow. There is also PANORAMA, which also works in VESA 2 mode, but it has an added buffer that improves performance. Now, I hear that Mensys has acquired the OS/2 code for SNAP. Apparently, nothing has been done with it, yet, so it is difficult to know what, if anything, will come from that.

You should be aware, that eCS 2.2 beta is due to be released "soon". "Soon", in the past has meant anything up to two years. I think they (Mensys) are trying to do better, but most eCS users want it done right, rather than quickly. It is a difficult job, with one or two guys doing most of the coordination, and not many more doing the work. If you jump in with eCS 2.1, a lot of the newer stuff will be missing. You should also be aware, that eCS is cheaper, if you already own a copy of OS/2 warp4, or later. Sometimes they become available on places like e-Bay. I haven't checked prices for a long time, so a little research may be in order. You can also go to http://www.ecomstation.com/ where you can order a free demo CD (electronic delivery). It is currently also a beta version, and it does have a few problems, but they may actually be fixed by now (or "soon"). It will NOT allow access to your real disk, and it has a few other restrictions that make it useless for anything but getting a bit of a feel for eCS. Depending on your system, it may work well, or it may be impossible to make it work. It should work in the latest VBox though.

BTW, I should mention that I have no connection to Mensys, other than as a satisfied customer. I did work for IBM, as a Customer Service Specialist, large systems, but retired (at a young age) in 1992. I have used OS/2 since version 2.0.

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