OS2 World Community Forum
OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - Technical => Applications => Topic started by: Martin Iturbide on July 28, 2020, 06:52:35 pm
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Hi
I had managed to get a dual boot system between Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.x with AirBoot as boot manager. I followed this tutorial which is working very good (https://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php/Windows_10_ArcaOS_Dual_Boot). (Credit to Richard Dunkle). I also know the premise that you can not acomplish a dual boot on a "GUID Partition Table" HDD, so Windows 10 must on installed on MBR partition table.
But I want to try to understand and document more about the troubleshooting. My issue is that once you have dual boot some changes you made with LVM will break Windows 10 boot and some changes you do on Windows 10 may break ArcaOS Boot. And I had been a hard time trying to recover the dual boot state on the machine. Sometimes I need to resintall Win10 or ArcaOS.
I don't know if someone has more experience with it, and know what to do recover Windows 10 boot manager (or whatever it has), like boot from the USB Flash drive and running xyz commands (Diskpart? bcdedit? bootrec?). Also from the other side, what does Windows 10 does to ArcaOS that breaks it boots and if there is way to fix it (without reinstall).
Any tips are welcome.
Regards
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But I want to try to understand and document more about the troubleshooting. My issue is that once you have dual boot some changes you made with LVM will break Windows 10 boot and some changes you do on Windows 10 may break ArcaOS Boot. And I had been a hard time trying to recover the dual boot state on the machine. Sometimes I need to resintall Win10 or ArcaOS.
We really really need more information and you need to be extremely specific so we can dig out the details.
Having setup dual boots with Windows 10 with ArcaOS I have not experienced the issue you described, where you change something on LVM and Windows 10 no longer boots.
How big is the hard disc you setup ArcaOS on ?
Did you create _all_ partitions with ArcaOS on the disc ?
Roderick
Roderick
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But I want to try to understand and document more about the troubleshooting. My issue is that once you have dual boot some changes you made with LVM will break Windows 10 boot and some changes you do on Windows 10 may break ArcaOS Boot. And I had been a hard time trying to recover the dual boot state on the machine. Sometimes I need to resintall Win10 or ArcaOS.
We really really need more information and you need to be extremely specific so we can dig out the details.
Having setup dual boots with Windows 10 with ArcaOS I have not experienced the issue you described, where you change something on LVM and Windows 10 no longer boots.
How big is the hard disc you setup ArcaOS on ?
Did you create _all_ partitions with ArcaOS on the disc ?
Roderick
Roderick
Hi Martin.
The laptops I have came with Windows 10. I use a Windows program (can't remember the name right now) to shrink the Windows partition down to the size I need. Then I do the install of ArcaOS setting up the other partitions. Never had a problem afterwards. However, DFSee always states there are problems with the disk, however, whatever the problems never affect the partitions, bootup, or Windows or ArcoOS operations.
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Hi
I'm preparing a 700GB HDD on my Thinkpad L420 to have dual boot there (ArcaOS 5.0.5 and Windows 10), and try to see what can goes wrong.
I will follow these recommendations
- No GUID partition table
- Wipe all the HDD
- Create the partitions from ArcaOS 5.0.5 LVM (Graphical)
Once I have the dual boot configured and working. I will see what I had been doing wrong with LVM or Windows Partition Manager that breaks one or another.
Regards
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Hi
Here it goes my first issue trying to get Dual Boot.
The layout:
C: Windows 655GB Primary - NTFS - Windows 10 goes here. Formatted by Win10 installer
D: Shared 40GB Primary - FAT32 - A shared partition
X: ArcaOS 20GB Primary - JFS - ArcaOS goes here.
1) I created this layout from ArcaOS, installed ArcaOS on X: (formated JFS) and Airboot and everything worked/booted ok.
2) Later I installed Windows 10. It installed ok and broke airboot.
(https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2517.0;attach=6498)
3) I booted again ArcaOS Flash drive and reinstalled AirBoot. Airboot is back.
The problem starts here. AirBoot works but confuses the partitions. I called "Warp" the ArcaOS partition, if I select "Warp" it will run Windows 10. And now ArcaOS does not boot from AirBoot, it tells there is no OS, and press Ctrl+Alt+Del.
(https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2517.0;attach=6492)
If you boot Windows 10 you will see the partitions this way.
(https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2517.0;attach=6500)
(https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2517.0;attach=6502)
If I boot the ArcaOS Flash drive and go to system management I see:
- No error on "Disk Utility"
(https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2517.0;attach=6494)
- On the graphical "Installation Volume Manager", the ArcaOS JFS partition format is no longer recognized.
(https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2517.0;attach=6496)
I don't know if it is that Windows 10 broke something on the ArcaOS partition format.
Any tips on what more information I can extract of the partitions to try to find what is the issue is welcome.
Regards
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Hi Martin,
It would appear that you have hit the main problem with airboot - it writes to the first track on the disk and so does win 10. Until such time as someone works out how to install win 10 without it writing its boot information to the first track you are stuck with it.
Don't forget that windows 10 creates another partition at the start of the disk for its boot information.
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Hi Ivan.
But right now I have Air-Boot and Windows 10 working (After Air-boot reinstall). Does it means that Air-Boot installed on Win10 partition?
Anyways, I want to see how can I recover the ArcaOS partition now. Or at lease document what is wrong and how I did that. I don't know why X: drive (ArcaOS) JFS format does not longer get recognized by the graphical disk manager (Installation Volume Manager).
Don't forget that windows 10 creates another partition at the start of the disk for its boot information.
As partition I only see this:
(https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2517.0;attach=6502)
and this:
(https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2517.0;attach=6496)
If there are any other techniquest to see hidden partitions, please advice.
Regards
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Hi Martin, I believe Win 10 should always be installed first, then ArcaOS and with its boot manager.
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Hi Martin, I believe Win 10 should always be installed first, then ArcaOS and with its boot manager.
Thanks Dave. I would try that later.
If someone wants to give me some advice on how to asset what did Windows 10 broke on ArcaOS, and if there is a way to recover that partition I would apreciate it. It is just a test machine, I have nothing critical there, but I want to document how to recover from this problem. (if possible)
Regards
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I had this working on my Lenovo Thinkpad X250. It worked fine for a couple of weeks, then I decided to add a new volume with ArcaOS Installation and Volume Manager. After I rebooted, AirBoot no longer works. It starts to put up the menu, then the machine stops working.
If I reinstall AirBoot, nothing is fixed.
If I go back to default MBR, only Windows 10 works. The ArcaOS volume is there, but nothing can tell it to boot.
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It happens quite often to me that once I change the partition laypiut Airboot manager stops working. It tells me to boot from diskette.
The most succesfull solution in case of having trouble with Airbootmanager was to me:
- Boot DFSEE USB Stick
- Select: NEW MBR; Keep Tables
- Activate Windows 10 boot Partition as active Partition
- Boot Windows 10 and reinstall Airboot
But the best solution was:
- Using IBM Bootmanager instead of Airboot Manager
-> never had such kind of problems even with Windows 10 and OS/2 Double Boot on a 2 TB SSD, please see my T25/2 video at youtube.
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But the best solution was:
- Using IBM Bootmanager instead of Airboot Manager
-> never had such kind of problems even with Windows 10 and OS/2 Double Boot on a 2 TB SSD, please see my T25/2 video at youtube.
Hi Sigurd,
Using the old IBM Bootmanager was/is the answer for me as well - ArcaOS 5.2 and win 7 on a 2TB disk, at least I can see the selection menu that Airboot wouldn't show.
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Strange, when I updated to a 1TB drive, Bootmanager stopped working, or actually only showed my smaller drive, and I was informed it didn't work with drives over 512GB or so, so I switched to airboot.
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Why compare IBM BM with AiRBoot? In cases, where IBM BM (still) works, it might be the best solution, because it uses an own partition. In other cases it's the opposite.
A boot manager that occupies an own partition rather survives the installation of another system than one that is placed in the MBR. For the MBR case: Just reinstall it. Or didn't that work for you?
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Why compare IBM BM with AiRBoot? In cases, where IBM BM (still) works, it might be the best solution, because it uses an own partition. In other cases it's the opposite.
A boot manager that occupies an own partition rather survives the installation of another system than one that is placed in the MBR. For the MBR case: Just reinstall it. Or didn't that work for you?
As you guessed, AirBoot does not work no matter how many times you install it. Although I did not think of reinstalling from Windows as Sigurd recommended. Installing MBR does allow Windows to boot. I can also boot ArcaOS from USB stick, which is how I was unsuccessfully reinstalling AirBoot.
I'm hoping this somehow helps Martin with his original post.
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Strange, when I updated to a 1TB drive, Bootmanager stopped working, or actually only showed my smaller drive, and I was informed it didn't work with drives over 512GB or so, so I switched to airboot.
Hi Dave,
I think that 512GB limit is the maximum size if the OS boot partition. It works for me on my standby computer with a 1TB and 2 2TB drives that have OS/2 WsEB, ArcaOS and a Warp 4 maintenance partition spread out over all the drives. Actual boot partitions are 2GB. ArcaOS was the frustrating install because it wants the boot partition to be a primary one whereas with all my OS/2 installs they have been on extended partitions.
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I think that 512GB limit is the maximum size if the OS boot partition.
I think you let some other OS make some, or all, of your partitions. If you wipe a large disk (use the ArcaOS tool) and make all of the required partitions (including windows, and Linux) with (mini)LVM, then format the boot volumes as JFS, you won't have those problems (unless the other OS messes with what you did). Don't forget that that will delete all of the data on the disk, so be prepared with GOOD backups.
VERY IMPORTANT: Do not, ever, let anything else mess with the disk setup. That is pretty well guaranteed to cause problems.
I have a couple of 1 TB disks with win10, a couple of ArcaOS boot volumes, a FAT32 volume, and a couple of other OS/2 volumes. They all work, as expected (including a boot volume at the end of the disk).
Boot manager probably has problems with large disks, but I have not, yet, seen Air Boot fail with one (probably could happen if the BIOS is not up to the job). I do have one ancient DELL, where Air Boot refuses to work, but I am sure that is a BIOS problem, because I can put the same disk into a newer machine, and Air Boot works.
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Hi Dave,
I think that 512GB limit is the maximum size if the OS boot partition. It works for me on my standby computer with a 1TB and 2 2TB drives that have OS/2 WsEB, ArcaOS and a Warp 4 maintenance partition spread out over all the drives. Actual boot partitions are 2GB. ArcaOS was the frustrating install because it wants the boot partition to be a primary one whereas with all my OS/2 installs they have been on extended partitions.
My boot partitions are usually about 2GB, occasionally 4GB. The problem was none of the drives on the 1TB disk showed up in BM and when I asked about it, the story was that BM didn't support such large drives.
All my ArcaOS installs, and I have a few, are on logical partitions. Weird that you had problems.
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Hi All
No problem installing to 1Tb disk *after* using DFSee to prepare the disk by wiping start of disk to 0(s). I seem to recall LVM cannot see the full 1Tb - only sees 512Gb - without performing this action first. After the disk is "prepared" partitons/volumes can be created using either LVM, miniLVM or DFSee
No problems installing ArcaOS to Logical volumes here although I was selecting to install to drives that had already been created and had previously had eCS2.0/2.1/2.2 installed.
Regards
Pete
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Hi
I'm not sure about the suggestions. I have Airboot res-installed, Windows 10 booting and ArcaOS 5 failing to boot when you select it from the airboot list.
This is how ArcaOS Maintenance Boot sees the partitions.
(https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2517.0;attach=6496)
X: drive (ArcaOS) does not get recognized as JFS by the tool.
Do you suggest to install MBR again?
Regards
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Hi
Since Windows 10 is working on this dual boot configuration, I check the W10 partition manager and check how it recognize the non-working ArcaOS partiton (which was JFS). It recognize it as NTFS, and to test I assigned it a letter and it was mounted on W10 as as working drive.
Maybe this mean that, even that I told Windows 10 to install on the first partition (selecting the custom install), it took the ArcaOS partition (JFS) and format it as NTFS.
Now I will try to reinstall ArcaOS on the 20GB X: drive and see what happens.
Regards
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Hi
Now I had tried the other way. Since Windows 10 broke the ArcaOS partition format (I suspect the installer formatted the ArcaOS JFS partition as NTFS), with Windows 10 working I had installed ArcaOs and AirBoot.
This broke now the Windows 10 boot process. ArcaOS and Airboot now works, but when you select the Windows 10 partition to boot it will not load anything. Just a black screen.
Now I will like to know what the ArcaOS installation did to Windows 10 to no longer boot. The Windows 10 partition seems to be there as NTFS, but now I need to find out what got broken on the Win10 boot process. Any help, tips , "trial and error" is welcome since this is a test machine without anything important on it.
Regards
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I think you know that Win shows a popup for all partitions it does not know which says something like 'you need to format this partition' to use it. Or more precisely all partitions that Windows does recognize as being not NTFS or FAT32 (I'm pretty sure MS knows that JFS is something it should not bother but the can't resist to try to destroy all non MS things) are poping up a dialog which if you don't be careful formats it. You have to go to the volume manager and remove the drive letter so that Win leave these partitions alone in future. Maybe you don't click Cancel on this popup? Or newer W10 don't even ask?
What Win does in any case is write to the first (primary?) partition on disk0. Bad luck if this was another OS. But in your case Win should not have touched your 3. partition except for the misleading 'Volume can not be accessed. Need formatting' dialog.
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Pardon me for jumping in, but my problem is so similar, it might be worth looking at.
I'm having a similar problem with Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.0.5 on my Thinkpad X250. I had both running smoothly with AirBoot. I used ArcaOS to shrink the Windows 10 large partition and placed the ArcaOS partitions at the end of the disk. Everything was done with the ArcaOS installer.
But then I created one more partition, and now AirBoot does not work. It puts up the first part of the disk menu, pauses for almost a second, then puts up a blank screen. Reinstalling AirBoot does nothing. If I put in a plain MBR, Windows 10 boots fine.
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Hi Neil
If I put in a plain MBR, Windows 10 boots fine.
What is the procedure you use to put a plan MBR to get back Win10 working? Even if Air-Boot still broken.
Regards
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I boot ArcaOS installer on a USB stick, and to go the System Maintenance window. I'm not at an installer right now, so going from memory, I do the following
I enter Volume Management (Simple) or whatever to access the ArcaOS volume manager.
I rewrite the MBR (File menu?) Then I save changes.
When I reboot, Windows starts.
(On my X250, I tried a new hard drive, made the partitions and installed Windows. Now it's all working again. I still would love to know how to repair a broken installation.)
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Out of interest I have a Lenovo notebook that came with win 10 which I didn't want so I installed Zorin Linux on it and supposedly wiped out the win partitions. On inspection, there is a very small Vfat primary partition at the start of the disk. Maybe you both are hitting that partition which I assume is there to boot uefi windows.
Since I don't have, or want, win 10 I can't be of much more help than that.
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I boot ArcaOS installer on a USB stick, and to go the System Maintenance window. I'm not at an installer right now, so going from memory, I do the following
I enter Volume Management (Simple) or whatever to access the ArcaOS volume manager.
I rewrite the MBR (File menu?) Then I save changes.
When I reboot, Windows starts.
(On my X250, I tried a new hard drive, made the partitions and installed Windows. Now it's all working again. I still would love to know how to repair a broken installation.)
Hi, I did that. Boot with USB Flash, Maintenance Mode, Volume Magement, Rewrite MBR, Save, Reboot.
Airboot was gone, and on boot it only shows me a blinking cursor on the top. I guess it was trying to boot from the W10 partition.
On this sate I did:
1) Win10 USB Boot - Repair your computer -- Troubleshoot - Startup Repair. It failed and said "Starup Repair couldn't repair you PC".
2) Win10 USB Boot - Repair your computer -- Troubleshoot - Command line. (Tried this (https://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/51782.fixing-corrupted-mbr-in-windows-10.aspx))
- run chckdsk c: /f - just in case
- bootrec /FixMbr
- bootrec /FixBoot
-- Access is Denied
- bootrec /ScanOs
-- Scanning...
-- Please wait...
-- Successfully...
-- Total Identified Windows Installations: 1
-- [1] C:\Windows
-- The operation completed successfully.
- bootrec /RebuildBcd
-- Scanning...
-- Please wait...
-- Successfully...
-- Total Identified Windows Installations: 1
-- [1] C:\Windows
-- Add installation to boot list? Yes (Y)/No(N)/All(A)
Pressed Y
-- The operation completed successfully.
After all that, no Windows 10 boot.
I also tried the ""bootsect /nt60 sys"" on Win10 but I also get an "Access is denied" error.
After more reading I tried.
-- bootsect /nt60 sys /force
got : Bootcode was successfully updated...
-- bootrec /FixBoot
-- Access is denied.
Rebooted just in case.... Now I get.
"An Operating system wasn't found. Try disconnecting any drives...."
It still does not look good to find out what Airboot or ArcaOS did to break the Windows 10 boot.
Regards
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Hi Martin,
If you don't have the hidden vfat uefi boot partition at the start of the disk I don't think you will get win 10 to boot.
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Hi Martin,
If you don't have the hidden vfat uefi boot partition at the start of the disk I don't think you will get win 10 to boot.
It's documented that not giving Win10 an opportunity to create the boot partition will result in a system where Win10 boots from its main partition. Of course that might have changed and I can't remember where it is documented.
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Hi Martin,
If you don't have the hidden vfat uefi boot partition at the start of the disk I don't think you will get win 10 to boot.
Does this also apply to the non UEFI Thinkpad L420 where I'm doing these tests?
Regards
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Having had a look at what is in that partition, it appears to be where the uefi key is stored - no key, no boot! I assume if you have CSM set as active in the bios you can install without the uefi key and just use the first partition on the disk without there being a specific boot partition.
I have noticed that when I start the notebook there is a considerable pause before Zorin takes over the boot process which is very fast. I assume the pause is the uefi bios looking for win 10 to boot and when it can't find it Zorin takes over.
We must remember that M$ have been pushing for win 10 to be the only OS on a computer for several years now, uefi bios being their main attack front, fortunately several motherboard manufactures are willing to keep the CSM option alive or we would be in big trouble. Maybe if I could find a version of vBox host that actually runs on ArcaOS on a Ryzen based computer I could try win 10 and see what happens.
In reply to your question Martin, I suspect it does and am quite surprised that it installs and boots without a uefi bios on the machine. I have heard of several people in the IT industry grumbling about older equipment no longer being able to boot win 10 so they have had to either get new units or have converted to Linux.
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Hi
Just in case here are the HDD partition logs from testlog.
----- Output of: lvm.exe /query ------------------------------------------------
Disk Size (MB) Free Space: Total Largest
[ D1 ] 715395 0 0
Disk Partition Size (MB) Type Status Logical Volume
Windows 655385 Primary In use Windows
Disk2 40006 Primary In use Disk2
ArcaOS 20003 Logical In use ArcaOS
[ D2 ] 96 96 96
Disk Partition Size (MB) Type Status Logical Volume
[ FS1 ] 96 Logical Available
[ D3 ] 96 96 96
Disk Partition Size (MB) Type Status Logical Volume
[ FS2 ] 96 Logical Available
[ D4 ] 96 96 96
Disk Partition Size (MB) Type Status Logical Volume
[ FS3 ] 96 Logical Available
[ D5 ] 96 96 96
Disk Partition Size (MB) Type Status Logical Volume
[ FS4 ] 96 Logical Available
[ D6 ] 96 96 96
Disk Partition Size (MB) Type Status Logical Volume
[ FS5 ] 96 Logical Available
[ D7 ] 96 96 96
Disk Partition Size (MB) Type Status Logical Volume
[ FS6 ] 96 Logical Available
[ D8 ] 96 96 96
Disk Partition Size (MB) Type Status Logical Volume
[ FS7 ] 96 Logical Available
[ D9 ] 96 96 96
Disk Partition Size (MB) Type Status Logical Volume
[ FS8 ] 96 Logical Available
----- Output of: X:\sys\INSTALL\dfsanos2.exe -B- -a -l- query#part -w ----------
DFSee invocation : X:\SYS\INSTALL\DFSANOS2.EXE -B- -a -l- query#part -w
Working directory : X:\
DFSee OS/2 16.0 : executing: query
Number of disks : 9
BIOS-Geo D 1 Cyl : 16383 H: 16 S:63 Bps:512 Size:0x575466F0 = 698.6 GiB
L-Geo Disk 1 Cyl : 45241 H:255 S:127 Bps:512 Size:0x57541B39 = 698.6 GiB
MBR crc 6d51c774 : 0x50974e3b = Airboot BM, 09-11-2017 version 1.14 Lang:E, I13X
L-Geo Disk 2 Cyl : 512 H: 12 S:32 Bps:512 Size:0x00030000 = 96.0 MiB
IGNORE disk 2 PD2 : MBR read failed, Reserved (USB) DUMMY, locked or BAD-sectors
L-Geo Disk 3 Cyl : 512 H: 12 S:32 Bps:512 Size:0x00030000 = 96.0 MiB
IGNORE disk 3 PD3 : MBR read failed, Reserved (USB) DUMMY, locked or BAD-sectors
L-Geo Disk 4 Cyl : 512 H: 12 S:32 Bps:512 Size:0x00030000 = 96.0 MiB
IGNORE disk 4 PD4 : MBR read failed, Reserved (USB) DUMMY, locked or BAD-sectors
L-Geo Disk 5 Cyl : 512 H: 12 S:32 Bps:512 Size:0x00030000 = 96.0 MiB
IGNORE disk 5 PD5 : MBR read failed, Reserved (USB) DUMMY, locked or BAD-sectors
L-Geo Disk 6 Cyl : 512 H: 12 S:32 Bps:512 Size:0x00030000 = 96.0 MiB
IGNORE disk 6 PD6 : MBR read failed, Reserved (USB) DUMMY, locked or BAD-sectors
L-Geo Disk 7 Cyl : 512 H: 12 S:32 Bps:512 Size:0x00030000 = 96.0 MiB
IGNORE disk 7 PD7 : MBR read failed, Reserved (USB) DUMMY, locked or BAD-sectors
L-Geo Disk 8 Cyl : 512 H: 12 S:32 Bps:512 Size:0x00030000 = 96.0 MiB
IGNORE disk 8 PD8 : MBR read failed, Reserved (USB) DUMMY, locked or BAD-sectors
L-Geo Disk 9 Cyl : 512 H: 12 S:32 Bps:512 Size:0x00030000 = 96.0 MiB
IGNORE disk 9 PD9 : MBR read failed, Reserved (USB) DUMMY, locked or BAD-sectors
At least 2 non-trivial minor warnings were not shown. Use 'part -w:t -t-' for details.
Id D A Dr Type Form Label info LVM vol,part Begin-cyl End-cyl Size MiB
-- - - -- ---- ---- ----------- ------------- --------- --------- -----------
01 1 > C: P 07 NTFS Windows,Windo 0 41445 655385.1
02 1 -d P 0c FAT3 SHARED Disk2,Disk2 41446 43975 40006.9
03 1 X: L 07 JFS ARCAOS ArcaOS,ArcaOS 43976 45240 20003.4
04 1 Free 45241 45241 9.5
-- - - -- ---- ---- ----------- ------------- --------- --------- -----------
> = Active, * = Bootable, r = Removable, R = Removable+Active/Bootable (possibly)
DFSee OS/2 16.0 : executing: part -w
Pid01=C: warning : Bootsector GEO Heads/Sectors fields do NOT match geometry!
It may be harmless, but when it seems to cause problems,
you can probably fix it by opening the partition and use
the FIXPBR command or the corresponding menu item being:
Mode=xxx -> Boot area fixes -> Fix HiddenSectors/Geo value
EBR03=X: warning : A windows-compatible extended-partition type 0x0f is used,
Old operating systems might not see all logical partitions.
Pid03=X: warning : Logical partition is marked as startable! (active)
ÚÄÄÄÂÄÄÂÄÄÂÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÂÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÂÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÂÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÂÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÂÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
³ID ³ux³Dr³Type, description³Format ³Related ³VolumeLabel³OS2-LVM/³ Size MiB ³
ÃÄÄ</dev/sda MBR disk 1>ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÅÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÅÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ<[ D1 ]>ÄÅÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ´
³01>³ 1³C:³Prim 07 Inst-FSys³NTFS ³Win NT ³ ³Windows,³ 655385.1³
³02 ³ 2³-d³Prim 0c FAT32-Ext³FAT32 ³MSWIN4.1³SHARED ³Disk2, D³ 40006.9³
³03 ³ 5³X:³Log 07 Inst-FSys³JFS ³IBM 4.50³ARCAOS ³ArcaOS, ³ 20003.4³
³04 ³ ³ ³Partial Cylinder ³-- -- --³-- -- --³- - - - - -³ ³ 9.5³
ÀÄÄÄÁÄÄÁÄÄÁÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÁÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÁÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÁÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÁÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÁÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÙ
> = Active/Startable * = Bootable r = Removable R = Removable+Active/Bootable (possibly)
----- Drive List ---------------------------------------------------------------
Drive A:
Drive B:
Drive C: FS='UNKNOWN' Label='' Size=31.99 MiB Free=1.77 MiB Used=30.21 MiB
Drive D: FS='FAT32' Label='SHARED' Size=39.05 GiB Free=39.05 GiB Used=192.00 KiB
Drive S:
Drive T:
Drive X: FS='JFS' Label='ARCAOS' Size=19.50 GiB Free=18.36 GiB Used=1.13 GiB
I'm still trying to find out how to fix Windows 10 boot on this dual boot machine.
Regards
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Hi Martin,
I'm all out of ideas if you need to use a partition on the same hard disk. If you were using a desktop machine then there is one way that can be used but it requires two hard disks. It also needs an SATA hot swop caddy but should work since you have to start the machine to start a new OS - as for sharing between OSs just use a large USB stick.
I suspect the above would also work with a dual hard disk notebook or one where you can put a floppy unit in place of the HD. Who in their right mind voluntarily uses win 10?
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Hi
I had managed to get a dual boot system between Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.x with AirBoot as boot manager. I followed this tutorial which is working very good (https://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php/Windows_10_ArcaOS_Dual_Boot). (Credit to Richard Dunkle). I also know the premise that you can not acomplish a dual boot on a "GUID Partition Table" HDD, so Windows 10 must on installed on MBR partition table.
But I want to try to understand and document more about the troubleshooting. My issue is that once you have dual boot some changes you made with LVM will break Windows 10 boot and some changes you do on Windows 10 may break ArcaOS Boot. And I had been a hard time trying to recover the dual boot state on the machine. Sometimes I need to resintall Win10 or ArcaOS.
I don't know if someone has more experience with it, and know what to do recover Windows 10 boot manager (or whatever it has), like boot from the USB Flash drive and running xyz commands (Diskpart? bcdedit? bootrec?). Also from the other side, what does Windows 10 does to ArcaOS that breaks it boots and if there is way to fix it (without reinstall).
Any tips are welcome.
Regards
An advice! I have yet installed ArcaOS and Windows 10 dual boot in more than one machine. Basically backing-up W10 partition with Seagate DiscWizard (light version of Acronis True Image, free for Seagate HDs owners and faster than DFSee), Partitioning HD for dual boot with ArcaOS lvm.exe from installation DVD and restoring W10 partition preserving MBR and track 0. Will be necessary adjustments in W10 partition with fixpbr and lvm DFSee comands and probably having to correct the boot.ini of W10. But after all, all works!
Now the advice! I have the bad idea to upgrade W10 to 2004 version.No problem I think. But I forget - I delete the restoring partition of W10. What happens - W10 2004 installation recreate the restore partition! I have to do all the process of dual boot again :(
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I can't make much sense out of what you have been doing. I can say that there is NO PROBLEM with dual boot between win 10 and ArcaOS, IF you get both set up properly.
Some quick, and dirty instructions, that should work if you adjust sizes etc. to match your hardware:
Okay, start over, and do it this way:
1) (This may not apply, in all cases) To eliminate some confusion, disconnect the SSD drive (unplug power and signal cables from the drive). We will worry about that after you get the rest working.
2) Use the disk utility, in the ArcaOS installer, to wipe the HDD. Boot the installer, and go to System Management-> Disk-> Disk utility. It will probably show errors (but may say "No problems found"). Ignore that, and click Disk-> Wipe disk information-> All disk information. After that finishes it will tell you to reboot. Now, you effectively have a new disk, with nothing on it.
3) Reboot, and go to System Management again. Run the Disk Utility again. This time, it will find that there is no partitioning (or something like that) on the drive, and it will offer to fix it. Fix it, and it will tell you to reboot again.
4) Reboot, and go to System Management. Go to Disk-> Manage Volumes (Graphical), and make ALL of the partitions. This is a 2TB disk, so I suggest:
250 GB (no less than 150 GB) for win. Select drive letter "none". Label it "Windows". Use a primary partition, and bootable.
20 GB for FAT32. Select drive letter D:. Label it "FAT32". Use a logical partition, and bootable. Don't make this too big, or it may cause problems.
4 GB for the OS/2 dump partition (not required, but why not?) I use drive letter N:. Label it "SADUMP". Use a logical partition, and bootable.
4 GB for your ArcaOS boot drive. Pick a drive letter (I usually use C:). add a descriptive label. Use a logical partition, and bootable.
500 GB for your ArcaOS data volume (or larger if you like). Pick a drive letter, and add a descriptive label. Use a logical partition, and bootable (Advanced is not useful, unless you have a small disk, and want to expand a volume to a second disk).
Since you probably want an alternate OS/2 boot system:
4 GB for alternate boot system. Pick a drive letter (I usually use Y:). Add a descriptive label, and select to put it at the end of free space. Use a logical partition, and bootable.
Fill the rest with another partition, to save the space. Use drive letter "none". Use a logical partition, and bootable (this will be removed later, and can be used for other things, as long as it is all done by LVM).
Save, then add Air Boot.
Save and Exit. You should be back at System Management.
Reboot (ArcaOS-> Shut down, then Ctrl-Alt-Del). It should go to Air Boot. It should show every drive that was installed as bootable. You can clean that up later.
At this point, you can try installing windows (probably best to disconnect the internet while you do this, and use win 10). It should install to the the first primary partition, without complaining, but don't forget to FORMAT the target partition, before starting the install (there will be an option, where you select the target partition). You may (probably will) need to re-install Air Boot after getting windows installed.
WARNING: win 10 (and probably other versions) will turn on a setting that cause windows to sleep, rather than shut down completely. This causes two problems: One is that it will leave disks dirty (probably only noticeable with FAT32 drives), and if you modify anything in OS/2, windows will "correct" the "problem" when it starts up again. Second, some BIOS implementations are told that they should use the "Fast startup" feature, which will override Air Boot, and simply start windows. To fix those problems:
In windows, there is also a power option to use sleep mode, when you shut down. In win 10 (8 is probably similar), go to Settings-> System-> Power & sleep-> Additional power settings-> Choose what the power buttons do (left side)-> Click on "Change settings that are currently unavailable", and turn OFF "Turn on fast startup".
TIP: When installing windows, it will offer to connect you to the internet. Tell it you don't have internet, and continue with limited setup. That will stop windows from trying to connect you to most of their garbage. You can connect to the internet later. Also, decline to help them, when it asks multiple times.
If that works, install ArcaOS to the volume at the end of the drive (Y:). The installer will format it (it should default to JFS) after you select all of the install options. That should just work, and Air Boot should recognize it.
Now, you should be able to use Air Boot to select which OS to boot.
If all of that works, format the rest of the ArcaOS drives (including FAT32, and format the SADUMP partition as FAT32, IF you have ArcaOS 5.0.5. or later), and proceed with installing your main ArcaOS system.
Now the advice! I have the bad idea to upgrade W10 to 2004 version.
Not true, but DO NOT try to update a machine, until windows offers the update. Apparently, some older machines will not be offered the 2004 update (and later versions, I would assume). Restoring a 2004 version, to a machine that isn't capable of running it, is sure to cause problems with windows. You will probably have activation issues too.
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Thanks for the tips Doug. I will check how to include those on the wiki.
My issue is not that an dual boot with ArcaOS and Windows 10 is not possible. My issue is that my dual boot attempts results in fragile dual boot where Windows can screen ArcaOS and ArcaOS can screw Windows boot.
I noticed that sometimes in the Windows 10 installation, when it sees the JFS partition, it just reformat it as NTFS, wiping out ArcaOS. But right now I'm trying to find how ArcaOS (or maybe Air-boot) is disabling Windows 10 boot, and if there is a way to recover the W10 boot without reinstalling.
Regards
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My issue is not that an dual boot with ArcaOS and Windows 10 is not possible. My issue is that my dual boot attempts results in fragile dual boot where Windows can screen ArcaOS and ArcaOS can screw Windows boot.
If it is doing that, you have not properly set up one, or the other, or both.
I noticed that sometimes in the Windows 10 installation, when it sees the JFS partition, it just reformat it as NTFS, wiping out ArcaOS. But right now I'm trying to find how ArcaOS (or maybe Air-boot) is disabling Windows 10 boot, and if there is a way to recover the W10 boot without reinstalling.
Window doe NOT just reformat JFS partitions. It WILL sort of format EMPTY partitions, as FAT32, without telling you. Windows now assumes that an empty partition is FAT32.
ArcaOS, or Air Boot will NOT disable booting from windows. It may appear that it does, IF windows has the small boot partition, and you attempt to boot from the windows C: drive, because the boot stuff is in the small partition, not on the C: drive. You can change that, by using:
>NOTE: this only works when windows C: drive is a PRIMARY partition, It needs the hidden partition to boot indows from a LOGICAL partition.
In WINDOWS, boot to CMD, use Admin privilege.
Open a Command line, by selecting Start-> All programs-> Accessories-> RMB click on the Command Prompt item (might be Power shell)-> Click on Run as administrator. The command line should open.
Type the command:
bcdboot c:\windows /s c:
which will put the windows boot code onto the C: drive. You can then remove the, now unused, hidden boot partition.
Removing (or not using) the hidden boot partition will prevent you from installing windows "security" software, but few home users would even consider that.
If you wish to keep the hidden partition, use Air Boot to boot from it, to boot to windows.