OS2 World Community Forum

OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - Technical => Setup & Installation => Topic started by: Greg Pringle on April 14, 2023, 04:54:02 pm

Title: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Greg Pringle on April 14, 2023, 04:54:02 pm
I have a copy of Win and I don't even have to press the update button. It does it form me whenever it wants.

About AMD, I run my workstation on ArcaOS with a Ryzen motherboard with 8 usb slots and 2 additional eSata cards. I routinely have 8 hard disks running. The problem is to load or reload the OS i have to unplug all the drives except the C: drive or the OS cannot find the boot device. I am wondering if 5.1 does this better.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: ivan on April 14, 2023, 05:44:23 pm
Hi Greg,

Do you really need 8 disks?  I have 5 on one of my Ryzen test units, the sixth place is a DVD unit and I have never had to disconnect any of them when I update the OS.

The smallest drive is a 1 TB unit all the others are 2 TB units which give more than enough space for storing data and programs.  I think you might have shot yourself in the foot with the extra eSata cards.

What motherboard is it?  My MSI B550-A Pro board has as standard 6 disk connectors as well as 2 M2 slots so no lack of disk space (see specifications section of attached manual).  It can also have 15 USB ports though I don't have them all attached.

I can't attach the manual as it is too large but it is easy to download from the MSI manuals site.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Dave Yeo on April 14, 2023, 06:01:30 pm
About AMD, I run my workstation on ArcaOS with a Ryzen motherboard with 8 usb slots and 2 additional eSata cards. I routinely have 8 hard disks running. The problem is to load or reload the OS i have to unplug all the drives except the C: drive or the OS cannot find the boot device. I am wondering if 5.1 does this better.

Depends on what your problem actually is. For BIOS boots, 5.1 likely won't be any different. For UEFI, and especially with GPT partitioning, yes it should help. Another advantage of 5.1, co-exists with other operating systems better and uses the same type of boot manager based on the ESP partition as other OS's. 3rd party boot managers such as rEFInd also work well, could use an icon for OS/2 though.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Eugene Tucker on April 15, 2023, 12:10:46 am
The MSI B550-A PRO may be working for Ivan. but it quits right after I add the NVME driver to the install.. I must not have all I need to have turned off.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: ivan on April 15, 2023, 02:39:00 am
That might be because they are not designed for NVME - they are for SATA which is what I am using.

edit to include screen grab from manual
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Eugene Tucker on April 15, 2023, 03:30:50 pm
Ivan, drat you are right. My set up as it stands is on a SATA I will just transfer the drive over to the other machine.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: ivan on April 15, 2023, 04:14:46 pm
No problem.

When I was lecturing at the tech college (shows my age because most of them became universities to the detriment of most technicians) I always insisted they read and understand the manuals for the equipment after all the people that wrote them didn't do it for themselves but for those that would end up using it.

No matter it is a very good board and drives my 28 inch 1920x1200 HDMI without problems.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: R.M. Klippstein on April 15, 2023, 11:29:50 pm
Hi ivan, how about a little more information on the MSI board! I've been waiting for almost two years to see if the Ryzan processors are trouble free with ArcaOS and Linux. I too am pretty old 85, and leagally blind, and have been using AMD processors ever sinse they were first anounced.  I'd like to upgrade M.B. & Processors even if its onlu using  5.0.7. My primary problems are:
Very high heat problems  using multiple virtual machines
Pathetic video with sound ArcaOS only.
Samba works, Linux Great, ArcaOS YUK!
Are there any installation problems using the MSI 8550 & Ryzan?   Yeah< I know --- Read  the installation mannual!
Thanks for any Info.

klipp
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: ivan on April 16, 2023, 01:11:20 am
Hi Klipp,

I don't have all the answers but I will try.

No problems with heat using the large processor fan unit.
Video is from the processor inbuilt video processor (I am using the third gen Ryzen 3 Pro 4350G processor) and it drives a 28 inch 1092x1200 HDMI monitor without problems.
No comment on sound because I can't be bothered with it (It was a distraction when I was working and if I want sound I use my large amplifier and speakers)
I use samba to have a constant connection to my dual NAS box arrays from both OS/2 and Mint.
The only thing with the install was the requirement to set the UEFI bios to compatibility mode and leave it there.
I installed ArcaOS from a DVD because that is/was how I have always installed OS/2.  I think it could be installed from USB but I have never tried to do that (stick with what you know is my motto).

The attached pic is a full-screen grab of my monitor.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Eugene Tucker on April 16, 2023, 02:09:10 pm
Even switching to SATA  and shutting everything down.  My MSI B550 Pro will not install ARCA OS 5.07. And it will not run with the drive from my old install which is on an ASROCK B450M_HDV R4.0 Which works great by the way. Some of us may be forced to wait for ARCA OS 5.1.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: ivan on April 16, 2023, 09:46:49 pm
Did you open the bios and set it to compatibility mode?  Sorry I can't remember where it was in the bios now but that I what I had to do to get ArcaIOS to install and as I said the install was from a DVD because most of the USB are not available until the drivers for them are installed.

If you don't set the bios to compatibility mode nothing except windows will install.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Eugene Tucker on April 16, 2023, 10:41:49 pm
Ivan CSM is a given on any newer computer that has it. So yes I did. Also Secure boot as well.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: ivan on April 17, 2023, 12:02:31 am
Secure Boot needs to be <b>off</b> because we don't have the security key necessary to activate it
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Rich Walsh on April 17, 2023, 01:48:09 am
Secure Boot needs to be <b>off</b> because we don't have the security key necessary to activate it

Secure Boot is completely irrelevant when booting in CSM mode - it is only supported under UEFI. Plus, many BIOS's disable or ignore it when CSM is enabled since CSM violates the Secure Boot protocol.

As far as having a "security key", that too is largely irrelevant for the intrepid user. I'm running an older 5.1 beta under Secure Boot (along with Win11 and Kubuntu) on a UEFI-only machine. Since my version wasn't signed, I created my own keys, signed the UEFI binaries, then enrolled my public key on the machine. I understand that AN is now signing its UEFI binaries and distributing its public key, so this shouldn't be a major issue for most users - when the time comes...
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: ivan on April 17, 2023, 07:57:29 am
That is fine Rich, you are a programmer and know what to do us other poor slobs don't have that knowledge so use what we were told when UEFI came on the scene.  Anyway it worked for me so I am a happy camper.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Rich Walsh on April 17, 2023, 10:59:21 am
That is fine Rich, you are a programmer and know what to do us other poor slobs don't have that knowledge so use what we were told when UEFI came on the scene.

No, it's not that I'm a programmer, it's that I make a good-faith effort to know what I'm talking about before posting. And, if I'm not 100% sure of my answer I test it first. Far too many people seem to think this forum is some sort of game show: "Be the first to post an answer and you can win a matching set of luggage - No knowledge required". How does that help anyone?

In this case, you say you were told disabling Secure Boot was a requirement even in CSM/BIOS mode, and so you disabled it, relying on something you read. If you saw that in this forum, were you truly well-served by having someone who didn't know and certainly didn't test, posting misinformation that you then repeated? Wouldn't we all be better off if people like that kept their hands off the keyboard rather than leading others astray?
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Eugene Tucker on April 17, 2023, 01:06:17 pm
I have to agree with Rich not everyone has the money to experiment with motherboards. So we do need to be careful with recommendations.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Greg Pringle on April 17, 2023, 01:59:08 pm
I am of the opinion that Secure Boot should be off because is serves little purpose other than enabling M to ban software.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Jochen Schäfer on April 17, 2023, 03:11:08 pm
I am of the opinion that Secure Boot should be off because is serves little purpose other than enabling M to ban software.
I'm pretty sure, they can do that without secure boot. Is there any proof for your assertion?
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Pete on April 17, 2023, 05:25:42 pm
Hi klipp


Very high heat problems  using multiple virtual machines



Have you considered liquid cooling?

A basic cooler costs less than the fancier air cooling systems and they do not suffer from dust build up on/in the fins of the cpu cooler block.

I am currently using a CoolerMaster MasterLiquid Lite 120  https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/coolers/cpu-liquid-coolers/masterliquid-lite-120/  and can state that it does a much better job of keeping my AMD FX4300 cpu running cool than the supplied AMD air cooler ever did.

I do have to add that it is a good idea to give the radiator a clean (quick suck with a low power vacuum cleaner) about once a year to remove the little dust caught in the radiator - I used to have to clean the air cooler 3 or 4 times a year.


Regards

Pete


Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: R.M. Klippstein on April 17, 2023, 07:47:08 pm
Hey Pete! How've you been? its been a while! Thanks for the Tip, I'm considering it now ! And its affordable, I;l give one a try!

Eugene Tucker; I didn't notice at first, but Ivan's screenshot showed he was using OS2 Warp. I thought we were talking ArcaOS 5.0.7! Maybe thats the reason it works for him and not for you  I would really like to know for sure if it works with 5.0.7. It would be good  to hear what Dave Yeo thinks about this.

klipp



Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Eugene Tucker on April 17, 2023, 08:29:14 pm
Funny he started this thread with a comment about 5.07 working for him and why would he want ARCA OS 5.1. LOL
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: MPJ on April 17, 2023, 08:47:00 pm
It's ArcaOS, see XPager …
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Pete on April 18, 2023, 12:26:01 am
Hi All

Might be worth Ivan and Eugene comparing BIOS versions.


Regards

Pete
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Eugene Tucker on April 18, 2023, 12:29:40 am
Pete, a very good suggestion.AMI BIOS 7C56vA9 2022-03-18. So Ivan what is your version?
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: ivan on April 18, 2023, 08:09:38 am
Just on my way out for the day,  Will post that info this evening when I get back.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: ivan on April 18, 2023, 11:10:28 am
The soy-boy protests have reached down here now so I cut my trip to the city short. 

The bios on my board is E7C56AMS.A10 date 07/01/2020.  Rather earlier than yours which is most probably the reason why I can run ArcaOS without problems.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Alex Taylor on April 18, 2023, 02:12:13 pm
FWIW, my B550-A PRO is BIOS version E7C56MS.A90 dated 03/17/2022. I have ArcaOS installed and running on it. CSM is enabled.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Eugene Tucker on April 18, 2023, 04:58:57 pm
Is your board a MSI? I see no UEFI bios listed under that description. If so it could be the processor which is a 5700G. I am at a loss.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Pete on April 19, 2023, 12:07:25 am
Hi Eugene

Probably a silly question but have you checked whether the BIOS can "see" the attached SATA disk?

If the disk is not seen check all SATA Port and Disk settings - probably in the BIOS Advanced interface.
Also check whether AHCI or IDE is selected.


Regards

Pete
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Eugene Tucker on April 19, 2023, 04:28:50 am
Pete yes it sees both the NVME drive I tried at first and the SATAS drive. I can install Linux on this board and Windows. I haven't tried Windows though. The other board of the same manufacturer was defective. so I sent it back.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Pete on April 19, 2023, 05:04:30 am
Hi Eugene

OK, so disk is visible to BIOS - so ArcaOS should "see" it as well as long as correct drivers are selected.

After checking whether you have disk controller set to AHCI or IDE boot ArcaOS media and select to Boot with Own Values. That should enable you to make sure that the correct disk controller drivers, AHCI or IDE, get loaded. If using AHCI for disk and IDE for dvd the AHCI drivers should be before the IDE drivers in any resulting config.sys - which you can check before proceeding with booting.

If the above does not help report back on what happens and, hopefully, we (collectively) may be able to come up with a resolution - or at least something else to try.


Regards

Pete
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: ivan on April 19, 2023, 08:04:40 am
Just a thought, I remember that I had to turn off the virtual cores of the processor in the bios before I could get very far with installing from the DVD.  Sorry but I forgot that it was 3 years ago and I'm not getting any younger.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Eugene Tucker on April 19, 2023, 12:55:02 pm
Pete I do go to the install with my own selections and it just quits after that. Ivan I will check and see that that is turned off.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Remy on April 19, 2023, 01:49:18 pm
Hi Eugene,

I read the post and could not determine if you plugged your disk into one of the M.2 slot or on SATA port ?
I have a board under which, M.2 is not usable - PCI.e and had to remove the disk to see all other - , my ArcaOs has to be installed on a SSD sata port

(note: my board is a intel one...)
My be you can try exclude M.2 disks from under your config.sys AHCI driver and use disk plugged into SATA port to check if installation can proceed. This could help into problem determination 
   
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Greg Pringle on April 19, 2023, 02:56:15 pm
Hi Greg,

Do you really need 8 disks?  I have 5 on one of my Ryzen test units, the sixth place is a DVD unit and I have never had to disconnect any of them when I update the OS.

The smallest drive is a 1 TB unit all the others are 2 TB units which give more than enough space for storing data and programs.  I think you might have shot yourself in the foot with the extra eSata cards.

What motherboard is it?  My MSI B550-A Pro board has as standard 6 disk connectors as well as 2 M2 slots so no lack of disk space (see specifications section of attached manual).  It can also have 15 USB ports though I don't have them all attached.

I can't attach the manual as it is too large but it is easy to download from the MSI manuals site.

I have lots of data and some are used as backups of others. I also have hot-swap cages to add and remove drives, that requires bringing down the system to change drives. The problem with needing to remove drives for an install is required if there is more than one drive. The total number does not matter, except for the unplugging of everything.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Eugene Tucker on April 19, 2023, 03:17:03 pm
Remy, Been there and I have done that too.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: ivan on April 19, 2023, 03:18:07 pm
Hi Greg,

From what you say it sounds as if what you really need a large NAS setup with 4 TB, or larger, drives.  That would save you having to mess about with the drives on your computer.

I do not understand why you need to remove drives for an install.  All of my computers have more than one drive installed and I have never had to remove any to install OS/2 - ArcaOS or Linux Mint (can't comment about Windows because I don't use it other than as a dumb terminal for a data logger).

I get the impression that you are your own worst enemy, confusing the computer with removed drives and then having to reset the bios to reflect  the changed drive arrangement (you do change the bios when you change the drives I hope).
 
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Martin Iturbide on April 19, 2023, 06:54:44 pm
Note:Hi. I slipped this topic, since it changed from a "why ArcaOS 5.1" topic to a "Storage Discussion". I hope I didn't screw it up.

Regards
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Pete on April 20, 2023, 01:56:20 am
Hi Eugene

Pete I do go to the install with my own selections and it just quits after that.


Any idea where it is quitting?

Been a while since I last did an ArcaOS install but I seem to recall that you can select to show drivers loading which may give an idea where it is quitting - sometimes last driver listed onscreen or the next driver that should get loaded from the config.sys.


Regards

Pete


Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Eugene Tucker on April 20, 2023, 02:13:37 am
Pete, I would do that if the install got that far it quits right after I hit F10.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Pete on April 20, 2023, 06:18:43 am
Hi Eeugene

Are you installing from USB?
If "Yes" it could be worth trying a dvd install if possible.

I also wonder if the ISO file has got corrupted somehow. Is there an MD5 checksum with the ISO that you can use to check?


Regards

Pete
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: ivan on April 20, 2023, 02:00:04 pm
one last question.  With all the disk changes how do they appear on the 'boot device priority bar' in the bios page?
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Eugene Tucker on April 20, 2023, 02:21:17 pm
Pete, Yes I tried the DVD install on SATA drives. It stops at the same place.
Ivan the boot order is fine. And I can instll LinuxFX on the computer. but I am going to sell that machine with whatever my client wants just to eliminate the problems and recoup the expense. I am glad that this mainboard works for you really.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Eugene Tucker on April 20, 2023, 02:25:08 pm
As an additional note to Pete I used the same stick to install to my ASRock mainboard. Which was a B450-HDV R4.02.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Pete on April 21, 2023, 01:05:09 am
Hi Eugene

Looking at the user manual for the B550-A PRO I see MSI do not support using 32 bit Windows with this mainboard, see bottom of this page https://www.manuals.co.uk/msi/b550-a-pro/manual?p=43

Do all our B550-A PRO users have that printed in the manual supplied with their mainboard?

I'm also wondering if there is a technical reason for this or are MSI just trying to lighten their support load?


Regards

Pete
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Eugene Tucker on April 21, 2023, 04:34:51 am
Pete I read that in the mannuel. I have no idea why.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: ivan on April 21, 2023, 08:14:20 am
I saw that but assumed that 32 bit windows is not set up for UEFI hence their saying that.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Pete on April 21, 2023, 05:06:20 pm
Hi

Well the above posts kill my theory that Eugene has a later Revision of the mainboard with some hardware difference(s) that somehow stopped 32 bit os's being installed...


Regards

Pete


Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Eugene Tucker on April 21, 2023, 05:20:48 pm
I imagine if I were to contact there support I will hear the old "We don't support OS/2" Anyway. Hey no problem I have options for this box. So there is no real problem.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Dave Yeo on April 21, 2023, 05:51:59 pm
Might be worth trying a different USB stick, I've had 3 fail in subtle ways while beta testing.
Title: Re: ArcaOS and Storage - Discussion
Post by: Eugene Tucker on April 21, 2023, 06:10:09 pm
I could do that. But I removed the NVME drive and used a DVD and Sata drive and it fails at the same point eveytime. I hit F10 and it quits and reboots. I will  have to wait.