OS2 World Community Forum

OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - Technical => Hardware => Topic started by: Eric Erickson on May 24, 2024, 09:50:56 pm

Title: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: Eric Erickson on May 24, 2024, 09:50:56 pm
All,

A physical machine that I use with Arca Noae is starting to develop some issues. So I'm looking to replace it. So what motherboards have folks been having success with V5.1. Now some of my requirements are:


I want the 2 PS/2 ports, as while I've had success at times using USB->PS/2 Adapters, they have generally been with IBM Thinkpads and sometimes even they don't work right through my TrendNet KVM.

Thanks in Advance!
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on May 24, 2024, 11:24:21 pm
The vast majority of OS/2 users are on commercial computers, not home-made from motherboards.

Any Lenovo M series desktop computer in the last 15 years would work with your requirements -- I've tried pretty much all of them.

You can go with the hobbyist market -- It's more of a hobby than a rational decision. I know several skilled hobbyists inhabit OS/2 World. If building your own computer brings joy, go for it.

You can buy refurbished computers from the many of the major electronics retail websites now.
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 24, 2024, 11:30:12 pm
Hi

I documented some reported working mainboards on the OS2World wiki, right here:
- https://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php?title=List_of_Motherboards

But I don't think they have PS2 ports anymore.

Regards
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: ivan on May 24, 2024, 11:55:33 pm
You didn't mention video output ports.  I ask because all my units are using HDMI either direct or via a DVI to HDMI adapter.

My setup is a 4 port Tcnewcl 4k KVM switch which takes USB 2.0 keyboard and trackball as well as my 28inch 1920x1200 HDMI monitor.  The main computer has a MSI A320M Pro-VD Plus motherboard, another possibility is the ASRock AB350M Pro4 - it has 2 PS/2 ports which you want.

BTW I think you should be thinking about upgrading your KVM switch to enable  you to have a much wider choice of motherboards.
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: Dave Yeo on May 25, 2024, 02:19:53 am
The biggest problem with new computers/MB's is how much memory OS/2 sees as they're designed with 64bit OS's in mind. Lots of reports where less then 2GB's is usable on the newest
Neil's advice about Lenovo M series is good, I picked up one, about 6 years old, for C$90 (US$65-70), works great, no PS2 ports on this one but they were an option. Most (all?) are Intel though.
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: Pete on May 25, 2024, 03:19:13 am
Hi Eric

The MSI B450 - https://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php?title=MSI_B450M_PRO-VDH_MAX - almost fits your specs ie works well with ArcaOS 5.1, no problem accessing around 3.5Gb RAM *but* only has 1 PS/2 port ...

@Martin: This does not seem to be on the mainboards page  https://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php?title=List_of_Motherboards


Regards

Pete
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: Eugene Tucker on May 25, 2024, 03:29:45 am
I am happy with my ASUS TUF GAMING X670E-PLUS WIFI. (The wifi does't work) and you will need the last drop from Paul Smeadly of Uniaud.
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 25, 2024, 05:41:10 am
@Martin: This does not seem to be on the mainboards page  https://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php?title=List_of_Motherboards
Thanks for letting me know. I had updated the list.

Regards
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: aziz on May 25, 2024, 09:40:35 am
*but* only has 1 PS/2 port ...
That should not be a problem: there are ps/2 splitter cables for this. In fact mouse and keyboard are connected to different pins on the ps/2 connector.
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: Matt Walsh on May 25, 2024, 04:16:40 pm
I'm using a USB splitter for my 4 computer setup for the Keyboard and mouse.  It's a generic USB switch selector and was less than $15.  I also use a "Vention" HDMI splitter which was also cheap.  Both work fine with my ASUS B-550 Prime.
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: Roderick Klein on May 25, 2024, 04:53:30 pm
Hi

I documented some reported working mainboards on the OS2World wiki, right here:
- https://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php?title=List_of_Motherboards

But I don't think they have PS2 ports anymore.

Regards

PS/2 ports are on most modern systems dead as doornail. Maybe industrial mainboards (that are sometimes pretty expensive), still tend to have PS/2 ports.
The more modern systems the 8042 PS/2 controller is also going away from the mainboards.

Roderick
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: Olafur Gunnlaugsson on May 25, 2024, 09:19:18 pm
Hi

I documented some reported working mainboards on the OS2World wiki, right here:
- https://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php?title=List_of_Motherboards

But I don't think they have PS2 ports anymore.

Regards

PS/2 ports are on most modern systems dead as doornail. Maybe industrial mainboards (that are sometimes pretty expensive), still tend to have PS/2 ports.
The more modern systems the 8042 PS/2 controller is also going away from the mainboards.

Roderick

Most motherboards on the market have at the least 1 PS/2 connector that is usable as either KB or mouse, a few specialist gaming boards skip them altogether but that is not the norm at all yet. If one is all that is needed you can choose from a number of AM5 or 12/13th Intel based boards.

"Business boards", i.e. LTS boards designed for long term support contracts frequently have both KB/Mouse connectors but feature slightly older chipsets as in the case of Intel in particular, the "business" chipsets are frequently not shipped in volume until long after the "performance" ones, even if they are announced at the same time. I am running this with a Ryzen 5500: https://www.asus.com/uk/motherboards-components/motherboards/csm/pro-a520m-c-ii-csm/

Not the newest board but, received an updated version late last year when I bought it and with Ryzen 3 support that is not really an issue speed wise, and the PCI slot comes in handy. ASUS still has at the least one PS/2 connector on most of their boards, but on AMD670 and Intel 760/90 gaming boards only some of the PRIME boards have them.

The LTS type boards are not always available to the public since they are intended for the OEM market, but large OEM makers such as Pegatron (DELL, HP, Acer etc) et al have them in their lineup, sold under a variety of names. The Asus is sold to end users however: https://www.amazon.co.uk/ASUS-Business-Motherboard-Supports-Management/dp/B0BTJ4KLR8

ASROCK has at the least 1 PS/2 connector on all intel boards bar a few intel 790 boards, it is missing from a number of AMD 6xx series boards but LTS boards such the AM5 https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/A620M-HDVP/index.asp actually have 2.

MSI has a few as well: This one is similar to the Asus minus the  PCI socket: https://uk.msi.com/Motherboard/A520M-A-PRO
Most other MSI board have a single PS/2 connector

Most Gigabyte boards have at the least 1 connector, their LTS boards have two like this: https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/H410M-H-V2-rev-20#kf

Biostar has 1 connector on everything except Intel 7xx gaming boards, the consumer 7xx boards have 1 however
Their AMD LTS boards have 2 PS/2 connectors but the Intel ones only one for some reason
eg https://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en/mb/introduction.php?S_ID=995
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: Andi B. on May 26, 2024, 10:43:26 am
Thanks for the information. I slowly start to search for an replacement of my current 4-core Intel based system so this very useful to me.

PS/2 is often needed for OS/2 as I run into situations where USB does not work anymore but the also attached PS/2 keyboard does. Maybe this is now better with the very last USB driver set but I fear such problems I had with my SATA drive where nothing except PS/2 and copy com1: worked could not be debugged without this old interfaces.

Although I currently run an Asus board I thought I should go with MSI now (again). But the Asrock A620M-HDVP you mentioned looks very good on the first sight. I wanna have at least 8 cores (real ones, not the hyperthreading crap) so I will end up with AMD this time. But I also wanna have the integrated graphic to work with my 3840x2160 via DP. Anyone tested this with current AMD chips? Low energy consumption to get very quite operation are primary requirements too.

Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: Neil Waldhauer on May 26, 2024, 03:16:03 pm

PS/2 ports are on most modern systems dead as doornail. Maybe industrial mainboards (that are sometimes pretty expensive), still tend to have PS/2 ports.
The more modern systems the 8042 PS/2 controller is also going away from the mainboards.

Roderick

Even the latest Lenovo M series desktop has optional PS/2 ports. My particular problem, which is not unique to OS/2, is in supporting access to IBM iSeries and mainframes that still rely on their legacy keyboards. I expect to be able to support PS/2 connected keyboards for a long time to come.
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: christech on May 28, 2024, 05:06:30 pm
ArcaOS works pretty well with my Asus Crosshair V. Has PS/2 but it is now over 10 years old and is AMD.
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: Eric Erickson on May 30, 2024, 07:07:32 pm
First of all, thanks for all the info. Some interest food for thought here.

*but* only has 1 PS/2 port ...
That should not be a problem: there are ps/2 splitter cables for this. In fact mouse and keyboard are connected to different pins on the ps/2 connector.

I was not aware that those kind of splitters existed. May have to give that a try.

You didn't mention video output ports.  I ask because all my units are using HDMI either direct or via a DVI to HDMI adapter.

My setup is a 4 port Tcnewcl 4k KVM switch which takes USB 2.0 keyboard and trackball as well as my 28inch 1920x1200 HDMI monitor.  The main computer has a MSI A320M Pro-VD Plus motherboard, another possibility is the ASRock AB350M Pro4 - it has 2 PS/2 ports which you want.

BTW I think you should be thinking about upgrading your KVM switch to enable  you to have a much wider choice of motherboards.

Well, that present a bigger issue. I currently have 7 systems running into my KVM. I moved from a set of Linked 4 Port OMNI's I switched to a 16 Port TrendNet TK-1601A about 6 years ago. I tried several that had USB instead of PS/2 ports, but could not get all my systems, (Mix of Windows 7, Windows XP, OS/2 and ArcaNoae) all working with the USB Version, so I went back to the PS/2 port one. Converting all the systems is not a task I'm willing to undertake. I've had good luck going from USB to PS/2 with adapters, but less luck going the other way.

You didn't mention video output ports.  I ask because all my units are using HDMI either direct or via a DVI to HDMI adapter.

My setup is a 4 port Tcnewcl 4k KVM switch which takes USB 2.0 keyboard and trackball as well as my 28inch 1920x1200 HDMI monitor.  The main computer has a MSI A320M Pro-VD Plus motherboard, another possibility is the ASRock AB350M Pro4 - it has 2 PS/2 ports which you want.

BTW I think you should be thinking about upgrading your KVM switch to enable  you to have a much wider choice of motherboards.

Video is not an issue. I've got a mixture of DVI, VGA and HDMI outputs on my systems, I just use the appropriate adapter to convert to the VGA that my switch uses.

The vast majority of OS/2 users are on commercial computers, not home-made from motherboards.

Any Lenovo M series desktop computer in the last 15 years would work with your requirements -- I've tried pretty much all of them.

You can go with the hobbyist market -- It's more of a hobby than a rational decision. I know several skilled hobbyists inhabit OS/2 World. If building your own computer brings joy, go for it.

You can buy refurbished computers from the many of the major electronics retail websites now.

I have not bought a commercial desktop computer in over 25 years. I've always built them from the pieces. That way I don't get any of those nasty windows kludges that the various vendors have put into there systems over the years.
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: David McKenna on June 01, 2024, 05:25:07 pm
 Interesting this came up - I just got a new Gigabyte B760M DS3H MoBo to use with an i5-12600K processor. to replace my old B365M w/i3-8100 system. Was going to dual boot Windows 11 and ArcaOS 5.1 and was able to install everything and it 'works', but ArcaOS only sees 860MB of memory even though 16GB is installed. No amount of BIOS tweaking would change that, so I decided to do what I hoped would never have to be done, and that is install VirtualBox in Windows and run ArcaOS from there.

 Installed ArcaOS 5.1 in VirtualBox and got it working. Normally, I would then zip up my previous install from the old computer, and unzip over the new install on the new computer, boot it, and change whatever drivers needed changing (usually just the NIC). This also 'worked' except I now only have one choice of screen resolution, and that is 640x480x16, even though the original install had more. Tried re-installing the VirtualBox additions from the ArcaOS iso, but no help. Also tried running the ArcaOS install again, but no change.

 I am assuming some file was changed needed for VirtualBox when I unzipped my previous install over the new VirtualBox install - anyone know what file that might be? Or how to get back the screen resolutions installed originally?

Regards,

EDIT: added testlog  booted to new hardware.
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 01, 2024, 11:20:03 pm
Hello
This also 'worked' except I now only have one choice of screen resolution, and that is 640x480x16, even though the original install had more. Tried re-installing the VirtualBox additions from the ArcaOS iso, but no help. Also tried running the ArcaOS install again, but no change.

Using VirtualBox I can set it up to 1920x1080 running a command form the Virtual Box host on Windows to change the VM screen resolution.

Here it is the procedure I used, maybe you can give it a try.
https://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php?title=ArcaOS_5.0.x_as_a_VirtualBox_6.x_Guest#Getting_Higher/Custom_Resolutions

Regards
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: Martin Iturbide on June 01, 2024, 11:32:22 pm
Interesting this came up - I just got a new Gigabyte B760M DS3H MoBo to use with an i5-12600K processor....

Thanks for the report. I created a wiki page for it: https://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gigabyte_B760M_DS3H

Just a little request:
1) Can you updated the "pcidevs.txt" file to see if some of the "unknown" devices get recognized ?
2) Is the Network and Audio working?

Regards
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: David McKenna on June 02, 2024, 12:07:01 am
Hi Martin,

  I did follow that procedure after the initial install and it worked. After unzipping my previous ArcaOS install, it did not. I'm pretty sure there is a file or setting in a file that got overwritten by the unzip. Just have to figure out what it is. I'll probably install another ArcaOS virtual machine and start studying the difference between the fresh install and my unzipped previous one.

 Got the absolute latest pci-ids file  and re-ran testlog - attached. Still some unknown devices though. Also noticed testlog complains about hyperthreading, but it is turned off in BIOS - strange..

Regards,

PS - almost forgot - sound works, but the NIC is not recognized (a Realtek 2.5GB). I installed an Intel 1GB PCIe NIC just for this situation.
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: ivan on June 02, 2024, 12:57:36 am
Just an observation.  I notice that most people seem to follow the win idea and cram everything into the one partition and then have problems getting everything working again.

My setup has 9 partitions, a small one (2GB) only for the operating system (it could be smaller but I can't be bothered to change it), then I have one for tools another for programs, another for work and yet another for home as well as a few odd ones for storage.  In fact apart from new operation systems (OS/2, OS/2 warp and now ArcaOS the other partitions remain untouched except for the odd update as necessary.

My reasoning comes from when I was guiding a couple of companies that were setting up with OS/2 and I see no reason to change it.  I will add that I now have a Linux mint based computer at the side of my desk so I can use a newer version of firefox to download or screen grab what I want, and network it to my OS/2 unit for processing.
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: Doug Bissett on June 02, 2024, 03:26:48 am
I have been skipping through this, but thought I would add a few comments. Unfortunately, I am not at home, so most of this is from my failing memory.

I, recently, got an Asus x570 Tuff Gaming motherboard, with 6 core (12 threads, for windows) AMD 5600G (?) processor. Put 16 GB of memory in it, with a 1 TB Crucial NVME stick for disk. After I looked through the UEFI BIOS, and turned off a number of things, it is working well. Over 3GB memory available to OS/2. Sound works (UNIAUD needs /A:1). The 2.5 Gbps Realtek NIC works (with Multimac MMRE, but I can't say if it runs that fast since I don't have another machine with 2.5 Gbps). Video is HDMI only (works well, with a 1920x1080 screen, and Panorama).

Overall, I am very pleased with it.
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: David McKenna on June 02, 2024, 11:42:31 pm
 Figured out the problem with unzipping a previous install over a VirtualBox install - the file 'C:\OS2\svgadata.pmi' must be deleted after unzipping. It is apparently used by Panorama and messes up VirtualBox if it is present. The VirtualBox additions install does not delete it. Now I can run a full screen OS/2 session in VirtualBox at native resolution.

Regards,
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: Andi B. on June 03, 2024, 09:08:02 am
file 'C:\OS2\svgadata.pmi'
I ever thought this file is used for SNAP only. But maybe all gradd based drivers use is? SNAP manual deinstallation instruction mention that deleting this file is needed. 
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: Doug Clark on June 21, 2024, 07:55:08 am
Eric,

I am running AOS 5.1 on a MSI PROB550-VC motherboard, Ryzen 5 5600x, with a Radeon X600 graphics card, SNAP .   Mem says 16,355 MB  (3,567 MB accessible to system)

The motherboard has one combo type keyboard/mouse PS/2 port.  You can plug in a mouse, or a keyboard, but not both, even when using a splitter or y cable.  I tried.  And after trying the y cable and failing I found other people posting on the net with the same issue with other motherboards.  Apparently to use both a keyboard and mouse at the same time (via a y cable) the motherboard has to be built to to accommodate it.

You said you wanted 8 cores.  Remember - more cores equals more cost, both in terms of watts, cooling and money.  My system at the desktop consumes 62 watts.  It consumes 4 watts when not running  - unless I turn off the power supply.  I have seen a maximum of 130 watts at boot up and when watching a movie on VLC, Compiling small (3.5 mb applications) gets it to 87 watts. 

The motherboard/processor/SSD combination works well in OS/2  - with the following conditions/issues. 

I believe you can mix GPT and MBR disks in the same machine, but there are considerations when booting.
The alternatives for a 'boot manager" for booting into different disks/partitions are: 1) the boot menu from the bios, 2) the AOS 5.1 GPT boot manager, 3) Airboot.  The bios boot menu will boot to either MBR or GPT disks.  The  AOS GPT boot manager will only boot GPT disks.  Airboot will only boot MBR disks.  On this machine Airboot does not work with a USB attached keyboard - you have to use a PS/2 attached keyboard.  On my Thinkpad T530 with AOS 5.1 Airboot works fine.   

On this machine some Windows applications lock up the machine when running in Win-OS/2 seamless mode.  They appear to run fine in Win-OS/2 full screen.

Once OS/2 boots up it is fast.  However this machine takes longer to boot than my Thinkpad T530. 

Finally - I would strongly encourage you to check out Neil's stuff (Blondeguy.com) when going through a make-buy decision.  If he has what you need it might save you a considerable about of time in specifying, buying, assembling and troubleshooting a new machine.  Plus he list the watts used by various machines you can get an idea of the trade off between cores and electricity usage.
Title: Re: Modern Motherboards - Whats working
Post by: Doug Clark on June 22, 2024, 06:43:39 am
Another possibility is plugging your mouse (actually the mouse output from the KVM) into the the serial port of a motherboard that does not have 2 PS/2 ports.

The MSI board I mentioned has a serial header.  It appears these headers have a standardized pin out - I used a ribbon cable that worked with an older ASUS motherboard on the serial header on the MSI motherboard and it works.  Neither MSI nor ASUS included the cable with the motherboard - I had to find one on the internet.

To test this I got an old PS/2 style mouse and plugged it into the serial port using a PS/2 to COM adapter - Logitech used to include these with all their mice. It works in OS/2 - after you adjust the amouse.sys line in CONFIG.SYS  Look in the command reference for the other requirements for using a serial mouse.

DEVICE=K:\OS2\BOOT\AMOUSE.SYS SERIAL=COM1

I need to point out that this arrangement does NOT work in the bios setup screens for this MSI board.  If you plug the mouse into the PS/2 keyboard/mouse port directly you can use the mouse in the bios setup screens, but when the mouse is plugged into the serial port (using the PS/2 to serial adapter) it does not work in the bios setup screens.  It does work in OS/2 however.