OS2 World Community Forum
OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - General => Events => Topic started by: Martin Iturbide on June 07, 2024, 08:47:22 pm
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Hello
Our friends at Warpstock Europe should be having a great time and I just want to help a little so we can follow up.
Here are the videos of Friday with a direct link of when each presentation starts, just for the people that can wait to have the videos organized (trimmed) ;D
FRIDAY:
- Opening Warpstock Europe 2024 - Roderick Klein https://youtu.be/EDGRb5hhfSE?t=403
- BIOS UEFI MBR and GPT - Keith Merrington https://youtu.be/EDGRb5hhfSE?t=918
- EA's revisited - Keith Merrington https://youtu.be/EDGRb5hhfSE?t=4075
- EasySync an update - Keith Merrington https://youtu.be/PWBp9SyqgsU?t=416
- Enhancements for MMOS2 (Multimedia) - Gregg Young https://youtu.be/PWBp9SyqgsU?t=3161
- Whats Next for ArcaOS 5.1 ? - Lewis Rosenthal https://youtu.be/PWBp9SyqgsU?t=6906
- EasySync an update (Cont.) - Keith Merrington https://youtu.be/PWBp9SyqgsU?t=10357
Please feel free to post any personal remark that you consider interesting/important on the presentations.
Regards
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Thank you Martin.
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Hi All
Thanks to Martin for uploading vids.
What OS and browser are recommended for viewing youtube vids these days? I ask as Seamonkey does not work - youtube tells me "Your browser can't play this video." - and Dooble (and/or underlying support) is simply too flaky to try to watch video clips longer than a few minutes.
I seem to remember having some sort of "youtube downloader" a few years ago which may be an alternative solution if I can find a current release...
Regards
Pete
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Hi,
Try to use Clipgrab. Is in our repo for yum.
Rene
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SeaMonkey along with my extensions, plays the videos here. Rest of the page doesn't display though.
I have NoScript blocking everything except youtube.com and google.video.com and uBlock Origin.
Tried VLC too, lot of certificate errors and the video seemed to hang frequently, perhaps not enough bandwidth
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Hi Dave
Here Seamonkey does display the rest of the page as far as I can tell.
It seems youtube will not let Seamonkey play the vids simply because Seamonkey is not on the "supported" browser list as clicking on the "Learn more" link accompanying the "Your browser can't play this video" takes me to https://www.youtube.com/supported_browsers. Funnily that page tells me
"Your browser is up to date
You can use YouTube's latest features!"
Obviously something wrong with youtube coding....
I set NoScript to allow all on that page, reloaded page but no change.
I'll give ClipCrab a try, Thanks for the pointer Rene.
Regards
Pete
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Hello
Saturday is over at Warsptock Europe 2024, here are the direct link for the moment:
- UEFI applications - Keith Merrington - https://youtu.be/bd6mplAlwdY?t=389
- Quiz with 50 random OS/2 questions & answers - Keith Merrington - https://youtu.be/bd6mplAlwdY?t=3258
- FM/2 Update - Gregg Young - https://youtu.be/33mv6RGW6vY?t=329
- ArcaOS in Your Language: Would could be so Hard ? - Lewis Rosenthal - https://youtu.be/33mv6RGW6vY?t=3512
Regards
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Hello again
I missed the Warpstock Europe 2024 Sunday Mourning, and it seems that the video is "unlisted", so I can not find the link.
I was only able to see the Sunday Afternoon string and I have this links:
- rEFInd the UEFI boot manager - Keith Merrington - ?????
- Secure Boot, Behind the curtains - Keith Merrington - ?????
- Secure boot demonstration & VMware support for ArcaOS - Roderick Klein - https://youtu.be/OJpuF7dNPlQ?t=149
- Update from OS/2 VOICE/BWW - Roderick Klein - https://youtu.be/OJpuF7dNPlQ?t=4036
- Warpstock Europe 2024 closing + public auction of 3 OS/2 T-Shirt Roderick Klein - https://youtu.be/OJpuF7dNPlQ?t=5949
Please help me out with this link I'm missing.
Regards
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All your links have been made private, and thus unavailable ...
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All your links have been made private, and thus unavailable ...
Ow.
Let's see what is Roderick's plan. Maybe they are cutting the files and will make them available online in a more organized way.
Regards
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Hi Martin,
first a typo, it is the 2024 follow up ;-)
I did watch the videos after the event before those have been deleted or made private.
The most important things for me are those with the news I exactly expected:
- WLAN: not even on the agenda, "We hear you" - but nothing happens, same since 2017 :-\
- German NLC Version: "might be with the 5.1.1 release...." or might not, same since 2017. Instead there have been some explanation, why NLCs do take so long, 7 years now. ::)
- but as ArcaNoae said: "The worst one can do is to blame the developers or ArcaNoae." :-\
So nothing new, that is what answers Rodericks Questions at the end of the event, why only a few people ( I do not know exactly how many at all attended, found no information there ) from Germany attend.
There are no news other than those everybody did know before.
Everything else I saw was about UEFI/GPT, there have been really great stuff from Keith Merrington, the only video online again. I would recommend to view this!
I admire all the work, Roderick and his team has put in this event, but the unfortunately low acceptance was forseeable.
Roderick asked at the end about suggestions for a next years Warpstock Europe:
- Only one, maximum two days, three days are to expensive, and the schedule can not be filled for such a long time (see this years topics, wich covers almost the same related things)
I have to state that I personally will not spent any more money for ArcaOS or related products, I stopped over a year ago. Warpstock europe proofed me, that this was a wise decision.
All the best to all of you!
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Sigurd, I thought they said they were working on the wireless networking. and Louis explained why it was hard for them to nail down the drivers. I ask did you watch the same event?
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Sigurd, I thought they said they were working on the wireless networking. and Louis explained why it was hard for them to nail down the drivers. I ask did you watch the same event?
Hi Eugene,
yes, I did. As far as I remember they said that they worked sometime in the past (please see all the explanations in related Video form 2017 to 2023), somewhere at the beginning they realised that it will not work the same way as with the Multimac Drivers (transform BSD Drivers) , since then there is no progress.
May be you have more informations, a Beta of a driver or some kind of, any signs of progress other than repeated announcements since 2017?
Yes, it may seem hard to you to write in that way, believe it or not, I write it without personal malice or resentment.
Fact is: ArcaOS is focussed on Industrial Users, and of course this is entirely in their hands and is legitimate.
BUT:
For years they have given the impression that they are doing something for the end user, but nothing has happened. Just look at the annonucements from 2017 till today. Only what industrial customers benefit from made it.
Things for the End User:
- a new Browser (Bitwise Works, NO spnsoring by ArcaNoae)
- Sound Drivers (Paul Smedly)
- Touch and Stylus Drivers (Wim Brul)
and others
all have been realized by others but ArcaNoae.
The annual announcements, which were of course non-binding, but still gave the wrong impression. There are no WLAN drivers, there is no German version, that is fact.
I believed in these promises for years and paid accordingly.
After 7 (!) years, to still come and say how difficult a German translation is (even though almost all tools are available in German translation) is now just ridiculous.
The community here in Germany is more or less dead.
For me ArcaOS is dead. That's just it.
Please don't take it personal, it is "Just the way it is". ;)
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I must say that I fully agree with Sigurd, in fact I have returned several of my computers back to Warp 4, and the other 2 are still at Aos 5.0.7.
I know that several people will say 'what about UEFI/GPT' to which my response is 'what about them, they are not part of OS/2, if they want to run windows just add another disk and install it on that.
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I must say that I fully agree with Sigurd, in fact I have returned several of my computers back to Warp 4, and the other 2 are still at Aos 5.0.7.
I know that several people will say 'what about UEFI/GPT' to which my response is 'what about them, they are not part of OS/2, if they want to run windows just add another disk and install it on that.
Same goes for me,
ARcaOS is DEAD, OS/2 not ;) :D
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I watched the WarpStock broadcasts (some of them, at least) and was grateful that the team are working to keep OS/2's technology up-to-date. These days, there seem to be many reasons to worry about the future of OSes that do not follow the latest fashion, such as "AI", which seem designed more to put money into the pockets of a few large corporations than to serve the needs of little people. I also fear there may soon be a change in what is regarded as normal computer hardware, typified by descendants of the IBM PC. Must we soon keep our systems on-line, talking to massive servers owned by folks who demand regular rent from us? Look at the legal trouble Adobe got themselves into recently by doing this; and they were once the Good Guys, supplying free Acrobat PDF readers suited to many OSes.
I am an AOS-5.1 (ex-Warp since the 1980s) End User, not a Developer. My system has humble needs. I do not need a "cloud" to store data. I use my own Intelligence, not somebody else's grandiose Artificial aids to thinking. My work can be done at clock speeds far slower than modern multi-gigahertz marvels. That said, if a m/c runs at super-whizzy speed and its extra RAM does not get in my way and its USB-variant connectors actually connect usefully, I am content to allow them onto my desk.
What it comes down to: are we on the threshold of an evolutionary step? A few years hence, will there be one design of m/cs for Power Users ("all hail the Great AI!") and another set for traditional Practical Modest Users loyal to the likes of OS/2 and Linux (and maybe even DOS)?
To pick up on some comments...
After 7 (!) years, to still come and say how difficult a German translation is (even though almost all tools are available in German translation) is now just ridiculous.
The community here in Germany is more or less dead.
The WarpStock claims that German causes problems when translating from English puzzled me. After all, those two languages are cousins; and, indeed, European languages have become cross-connected over the centuries, through processes like commerce, invasion, tourism, science and literature. Words and phrases get borrowed ("loan words" like "le parking" in French, which apparently annoy the French Academy). Is it the structure of formal German (eg, verb at the end of a sentence) which causes trouble? (FWIW, I know a joke about that.) As some of our pseudo-English-speaking USian friends say: go figure.
One thing I REALLY want to see: AOS software packaged so nobody must download supportive software or make special tweaks to the system before it will work. I wasted >EUR25 on OpenOffice and have yet to install it -- yet OO is promoted as the great saviour of modern computer-based clerical work, which it could be if packaged conveniently and was not so hugely clumsy and... and... and... (You get the idea?)
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Hello
The WarpStock claims that German causes problems when translating from English puzzled me.
About this, what I understood is that German, just like Spanish, has some very long words that may not look right in the GUI, since elements like tabs, buttons, label text are visual designed in English and when you put longer text it breaks how the GUI looks (or just looks bad). I had been told that German have very long words too, even longer than Spanish.
Regards
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Hello
I think that Sigurd has very good points.
UEFI is very important since if ArcaOS does not boot, the rest it is just secondary, and now newer machines does not come with BIOS compatibility mode, just plain UEFI. It is not just for people that want to dual boot.
But, yes, what about the web browser, better audio driver and wifi drivers?
In my opinion, the priority should be the browser (now), since we are lacking some applications, a solid browser can help us to work out some lack of native applications with web apps.
I feel like the effort to translate ArcaOS, at the level of high quality that Arca Noae wants, it is taking too much resources. Arca Noae should focus now on the browser with all that it involves like Qt6, the javascript engine, etc. Why Arca Noae? They are the only ones with a commercial product that generates income on this community.
Regards
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In my opinion, the priority should be the browser (now), since we are lacking some applications, a solid browser can help us to work out some lack of native applications with web apps.
I feel like the effort to translate ArcaOS, at the level of high quality that Arca Noae wants, it is taking too much resources. Arca Noae should focus now on the browser with all that it involves like Qt6, the javascript engine, etc. Why Arca Noae? They are the only ones with a commercial product that generates income on this community.
Regards
Hi Martin,
but here comes the main hopeless problem with ArcaOS:
On allmost all modern system (later than Intel Core i6 Generation) ArcaOS can only adress between 1 and 1.5GB of RAM, due to the fact that more and more Hardware manufactors reserve adress space below 4GB in BIOS for drivers.
And for every new browser to come, it will rely on QT6, and for this, one need at least 2 to 2.5GB of RAM. I tested Dooble on "modern" Hardware with only 1.25GB visible RAM, and it simply do not start, the same goes for Open Office.
As David A. told me some years ago there is no way to overcome this "Memory hole problem" for ArcaOS simply due to tecnical Limitations of the 32 BIT Operating System.
So, from an end users Perspective: No more RAM - no Browser nor Open Office.
As long as the RAM problem is not solved, UEFI and GPT are practical useless on real hardware, and so is ArcaOS.
Inside a Virtualization you can acess the full 3.5 to 4 GB of RAM, but UEFI and GPT are useless there, so is ArcaOS as you can simply achieve the same with an OS/2 Warp 4.52 or even 4 with FP 15.
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Hi Sigurd,
I am not seeing what you are here. I can run OpenOffice without problems and I have enough memory free to do other things.
mem -v gives
Total physical memory: 7,906 MB
Accessible to system: 3,311 MB
Additional (PAE) memory: 4,595 MB
Resident memory: 202 MB
Available virtual memory: 2,449 MB
Available process memory:
Private low memory: 224 MB
Private high memory: 2,240 MB
Shared low memory: 24 MB
Shared high memory: 2,181 MB
I don't know if the fact I am using AMD Ryzen 3 processors with built in graphics has anything to do with it (I gave up using Intel processors years ago in the days of the 486).
For a browser I use Firefox on Linux Mint and transfer anything I want to OS/2 via the network.
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Maybe your system is old enough to foresee use of a 32-bit OS, just like mine that is about 7 years old.
The problem with (many ?) new systems is that they reserve large amounts of physical address space below the 4 GB physical boundary for PCI use (and therefore not for RAM).
I think I read somewhere that this was done for older HW that can only address below the 4GB physical boundary but needs a large memory space, for example older graphics cards with very large screen apertures and memory space to hold textures and the like.
That makes much sense if a 64-bit OS is in use but severly restricts a 32-bit OS that has to rely on that memory space to be (mostly) addressable for RAM.
The reservation of that physical address space is static to cater for a 'worst case'.
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Accessible to system: 3,311 MB
I don't know if the fact I am using AMD Ryzen 3 processors with built in graphics has anything to do with it (I gave up using Intel processors years ago in the days of the 486).
Wich Generation of AMD Ryzen 3? The first one from 2017? That is exactly where the Intel Core i 7th Generation showed up as a Show Stopper (Exeptions possible).
I am using AMD Ryzen 7 from 2023 with the above result (only 1GB RAM). Not sure wich Ryzen Generations started with the same problems as Intel, but please keep in mind, the problem resides in the use of the BIOS of the manufactor, so there may be some (a few, very few) "Todays" Boards where one could be lucky.
For a browser I use Firefox on Linux Mint and transfer anything I want to OS/2 via the network.
That's exactly what I mean, you use Linux vie Network, not ArcaNoae for Browsing. Therefore a second installed system is necessary.
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Third generation Ryzen 3 Pro 4350G all the others are Ryzen 3 2200G units.
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ArcaOS can only adress between 1 and 1.5GB of RAM, ...
And for every new browser to come, it will rely on QT6, and for this, one need at least 2 to 2.5GB of RAM. ...
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Arca Noae should focus now on the browser with all that it involves like Qt6, the javascript engine, etc.
Yes, it is a big etc. ;D
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I think most of us are using some other operating system to browse the internet at this point. But I've tried quite a few of the platforms and browsers, and it's not like they are so perfect.
Every one of them fails in some situation. Some sites must have MS Edge, some must have Chrome, others Firefox.
I'm a little worried about Arca Noae developing a browser. It's taking a long time just to develop a WiFi driver. Maybe supporting ArcaOS is enough.
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I still mostly use SeaMonkey on ArcaOS for browsing with the occasional fallback to Dooble.
As for an up to date browser, I doubt that it can be done in this 64bit world. Developers have machines with lots of memory and don't care about systems with little memory, with basically all browsers having dropped 32 bit support.
As for Arca Noae, they're a small company, and I wouldn't be surprised if all the owners have other jobs or consultancy gigs, so no one working on it full time. There can't be much money in ArcaOS after paying IBM its share, paying for infrastructure etc. They were probably hoping for more volunteer help.
Edit: newest Dooble is based on Chromium 94, which itself is getting long in the tooth.
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Using DuckDuckGo (free) on Win-10 on a Dell notebook. Seems to serve my needs. The combination is, as a lady of my former acquaintance who had served in the USAF would say, "good enough for government work".
DDG has the virtue of guarding one's privacy, rejecting most of those rude probes, checking clickable buttons do not lead somewhere other than what is claimed &c. Original idea was to access the Net that way until AOS-5.1 was up and running. It seems, going by these discussions, that idea may stay at the prototype stage for a while -- which I am okay with, if I can do mes devoirs on OS/2, although moving files between systems on USB sticks gets tedious at times.
And so it goes...
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Thanks for the interesting comments
As for an up to date browser, I doubt that it can be done in this 64bit world. ...
We are falling again on the 64bits and memory discussion, which is not wrong, it means this is an important subject today. It is like we were living in denial, trying to stall the issue as much as we can, trying to convince our-self's that 32bits was enough, but now modern technology hit us in the face.
As for Arca Noae, they're a small company, and I wouldn't be surprised if all the owners have other jobs or consultancy gigs, so no one working on it full time. There can't be much money in ArcaOS after paying IBM its share, paying for infrastructure etc. They were probably hoping for more volunteer help.
uhm... I think the same thing, but I always ask Lewis at Warpstock how is the Arca Noae business going on, he always says to me the it is fine and doing well. Maybe we have a different concepts of what is "fine" and "well", but maybe it is not "good enough business" to produce a modern browser or wifi drivers at a reasonable speed. Or maybe the other issue is that even that if you have a bag of money, there are not enough OS/2 skilled developers to create drivers and software that you can trust to commit to produce a final product. Or maybe there is not enough money to hire and train full time young developers to create drivers and port software. Sorry, too much speculation from my part since I don't have enough information.
Sadly, the lack of a long term strategy of what to do with the older IBM's close source components of OS/2, it is starting to get us. The "don't fix it if it is not broken" strategy was just "boiling the frog slowly" for us.
I still want to fight it and try to have some strategy to clone as open source more OS/2 components, but I guess there is no interest and resources to do that.
Regards
PD: I know that the "boiling the frog" metaphor is not actually true, I just used it because I couldn't find a better way to describe it.