OS2 World Community Forum
OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - Technical => Setup & Installation => Topic started by: Per E. Johannessen on October 28, 2024, 05:22:56 pm
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I have a system with AOS 5.0.4 and Win10 installed on separate disks, (using AirBoot, CSM).
Does anyone have a "step by step" for how to switch from CSM to UEFI ?
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I have to ask, why change a very good working system to pander to Intel and Microsoft? I have to say I am of the old school of 'if it ism't broken then don't fix it'.
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Agree with the "if isn't broken etc." but I have to replace the graphics card and the new one I got needs UEFI.
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Agree with the "if isn't broken etc." but I have to replace the graphics card and the new one I got needs UEFI.
Hopefully it isn't some card that uses a lot of memory or put the frame buffer above 4GB.
First you are going to need AOS 5.1 or newer. Simplest is to do a EUFI install, change to UEFI boot in the BIOS. You will need a UEFI partition, which Windows may have already created, otherwise about 256 MB FAT32 partition that will, if needed, be created during the install assuming you have the empty space. Can't remember if it needs to be a primary.
Then install AOS 5.1
Updating, IIRC, is not supported from a BIOS boot to UEFI though it is possible with work.
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Check the Arca Noae Wiki for that.
https://www.arcanoae.com/wiki/ (https://www.arcanoae.com/wiki/)
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I have Win10 but since it's been run with CSM it has not created any ESP partition. AFAIK updating Win10 to Win11 requires UEFI so I assume that the updating process will create the ESP partition, (the Win10-disk has enough free space).
Before updating to Win11 I think I will disconnect the AOS-disk and only have the win-disk and another empty disk in the system.
If the win updating goes well I'll install latest AOS to the empty disk.
Finally I plan to re-connect the older AOS disk and wonder if there is something I have to do manually or will it be seen automatically and added to whatever boot manager AOS 5.1 sets up?
The graphics card is a Radeon RX 7800 XT and I have no idea about the size of the frame buffer or where it is put.
I have checked https://www.arcanoae.com/wiki/ and the info is good for a new installation however I initially had a hope of "converting" an existing AOS installation to UEFI. Couldn't find any info for that scenario so I'll go for a new 5.1 installation.
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Another thing to consider is changing the mother board to one that takes an AMD Ryzen processor with built in graphics. I converted all my computers to AMD processors, my main unit runs a 30 inch 2560 x 1600 screen without problems. Also, as Dave says be very careful with UEFI graphics cards - they are not all created equal and may not work with OS/2 - ArcaOS..
Strange as it may seem I was reading up about the problems of converting win 10 to win 11 because some friends of mine were thinking of doing so and it appears that there isn't any real advantage in doing that.
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Finally I plan to re-connect the older AOS disk and wonder if there is something I have to do manually or will it be seen automatically and added to whatever boot manager AOS 5.1 sets up?
Without using CSM, no. I currently have CSM enabled and am using UEFI boot. My boot manager, rEFInd, can load airboot allowing me to do a BIOS boot. If I disable the CSM, only pure UEFI booting is possible.
You likely would have to go into the BIOS to toggle CSM on to boot your older install.
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I have Win10 but since it's been run with CSM it has not created any ESP partition. AFAIK updating Win10 to Win11 requires UEFI so I assume that the updating process will create the ESP partition, (the Win10-disk has enough free space).
Before updating to Win11 I think I will disconnect the AOS-disk and only have the win-disk and another empty disk in the system.
If the win updating goes well I'll install latest AOS to the empty disk.
Finally I plan to re-connect the older AOS disk and wonder if there is something I have to do manually or will it be seen automatically and added to whatever boot manager AOS 5.1 sets up?
The graphics card is a Radeon RX 7800 XT and I have no idea about the size of the frame buffer or where it is put.
I have checked https://www.arcanoae.com/wiki/ and the info is good for a new installation however I initially had a hope of "converting" an existing AOS installation to UEFI. Couldn't find any info for that scenario so I'll go for a new 5.1 installation.
The reason its not a common support scenario is indeed because if it works it works. Its also not that easy to automate conversion to a UEFI system. The primary thing is that you need a new partition and converting the HDD to gpt disc layout is more complex yet again (if you want this). Could Arca Noae have developed this code ? Perhaps. But its pretty complex code.
Roderick
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Perhaps it isn't that hard. I think you could do this experiment.
Install ArcaOS 5.1 on the system you have now.
Install the new graphics card and switch to UEFI
Install ArcaOS 5.1 on a different volume.
Compare the Config.sys. I think only a graphics has changed.
Make that change and copy the files it refers to to the first ArcaOS installation config.sys
See if the first installation now boots under UEFI
Make sure you have space to make the new boot volumes and also the EFI volume.
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Perhaps it isn't that hard. I think you could do this experiment.
Install ArcaOS 5.1 on the system you have now.
Install the new graphics card and switch to UEFI
Install ArcaOS 5.1 on a different volume.
Compare the Config.sys. I think only a graphics has changed.
Make that change and copy the files it refers to to the first ArcaOS installation config.sys
See if the first installation now boots under UEFI
Make sure you have space to make the new boot volumes and also the EFI volume.
you also need an ESP partition.... Effectively UEFI boot no longer uses an MBR.
Airboot stops working to any dualboot options will have to be setup again.
Roderick
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Hello Per.
I haven't used it myself, but Rich Walsh wrote a command line utility called CSM2UEFI.
You can check it out here: https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,3423.msg41061.htmlv
Reegards
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converting the HDD to gpt disc layout is more complex yet again (if you want this). Could Arca Noae have developed this code ? Perhaps. But its pretty complex code.
Years ago I wrote an MBR-to-GPT converter that worked with any LVM-compliant disk and didn't require moving or copying the disk's contents. In fact, after conversion, you could use the disk as MBR _or_ GPT until you changed the partition layout. I offered it to AN but the person I dealt with couldn't imagine any use for it and declined the offer.
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Interesting. Could the MBR-to-GPT converter be used on a win10-disk/NTFS as well?
(I have so far not assigned any drive letter/LVM info for that disk.)
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Could the MBR-to-GPT converter be used on a win10-disk/NTFS as well?
This has nothing to do with the filesystem and little to do with the OS.
GPT uses the first 34 sectors of the disk as well as the last 33 sectors for its headers and partition tables. These sectors are always unused on an LVM-compliant disk, allowing them to be used for GPT without overwriting anything else on the disk except for the MBR itself. An MBR disk that was created by Win probably has the initial sectors free (because it aligns partitions on a 4MB boundary), but the last sectors are likely included in an existing partition which would have to be resized.
Note 1: I overstated the converter's capabilities. Once converted to GPT, the disk cannot be used as an MBR disk without restoring the original MBR sector (which the converter saves so the change can be rolled back).
Note 2: My MBR-to-GPT converter is not freeware. If someone wishes to pay $2,500 USD, I will provide an unlimited-use license allowing them to resell individual copies, post it to hobbes as freeware, include in AOS, or whatever. I have no plans to issue individual-use licenses.
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Thanks to all for info, I haven't decided what "route" to take yet but will report when done.
The MBR-to-GPT converter developed by Rich would be a great tool to have, and I would not expect it to be freeware.
Hope that AN can imagine a use for it now. (USD 2500 is a bit too much for my budget, although I'd happily pay a reasonable fee for a user license.)
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Sorry Rich that I've to say that, but ArcaNoae offers a way to convert MBR to GPT via dfsan. I found it in one of the ArcaOS readme files. Maybe gpt.txt? I already saw a menu entry in DFSee some time ago doing that. ArcaOS also comes with a simple GPT partition creation tool (PTE.exe I think). I created a 2TB partition with it on a 8TB disk a few days ago.
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DFSee 17.0 also has the ability to convert MBR to GPT and also do any other required changes. I would think that every OS/2 user has a copy of that free release.
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ArcaNoae offers a way to convert MBR to GPT via dfsan. [...] I already saw a menu entry in DFSee some time ago doing that.
When you select that menu entry in DFSee, the one-line help at the bottom of the screen says:
"Convert an MBR-style disk to an EMPTY GPT one [...]". In contrast, my tool takes an in-use MBR disk with up to 127 partitions and converts it in-place without the loss of a single byte of data. They're just not the same.
ArcaOS also comes with a simple GPT partition creation tool (PTE.exe I think).
I wrote PTE. It was intended to be a temporary GPT partition table editor for use until GPT support could be integrated into existing tools. I did so subsequently by adding GPT support to MiniLVM. As such, PTE is obsolete (though still functional) and should be removed from the distro.
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DFSee 17.0 also has the ability to [...] do any other required changes.
Actually, it doesn't.
While a disk is identified by OS/2 as "MBR", DFSee can convert it to GPT and (presumably) create GPT partitions. However, once you reboot and OS/2 identifies the disk as "GPT", DFSee is incapable of performing any changes to the partition table because it is read-only. DFSee doesn't know how to get write-access nor does it know how to coordinate the physical GPT partitions with the emulated MBR disks that LVM sees. The GPT disk itself is invisible to DFSee.
Honestly, this is waaaaay more complicated than it looks. Skip DFSee and use David A's 'InitDisk.exe' to do a destructive conversion, then reboot and use MiniLVM to create partitions (including the UEFI system partition).
Note: DFSee is still able to perform operations within a partition (e.g. finding lost files or editing binary data) because the GPT partitions are always read-write. However, what DFSee thinks it's seeing is the only partition on an MBR disk.
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Rich thanks for clarification.
I tried to setup this new 8TB drive with MiniLVM as GPT but couldn't find out how to do. Maybe I have to create an EFI partition there? But I've already 2 EFI partitions on other drives. I really tried with MiniLVM but it does not work (for me). I can't convince MiniLVM to create a GPT layout. I also can't add another 2TB partition on this 8TB drive with MiniLVM cause there is no free space anymore. PTE can't do this too.
PTE - looks a bit strange cause the big font. But it worked for at least one nearly 2TB partition.
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Rich thanks for clarification.
I tried to setup this new 8TB drive with MiniLVM as GPT but couldn't find out how to do. Maybe I have to create an EFI partition there? But I've already 2 EFI partitions on other drives. I really tried with MiniLVM but it does not work (for me). I can't convince MiniLVM to create a GPT layout. I also can't add another 2TB partition on this 8TB drive with MiniLVM cause there is no free space anymore. PTE can't do this too.
PTE - looks a bit strange cause the big font. But it worked for at least one nearly 2TB partition.
Too old of a minilvm? Note that the latest is called the "Installation Volume Manager" and seems to handle GPT fine.
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OK. I stand corrected especially since I have no intentions of changing what works for me to something that might not work - that is why I have several computers at my desk connected by an HDMI/usb switch.
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Too old of a minilvm? Note that the latest is called the "Installation Volume Manager" and seems to handle GPT fine.
v 2.52. Included with ArcaOS 5.1.0 EN. Built 2023-08-23. Maybe that's to old. But I really tried. Even looked into the help without any hint.
I even cleared start of the disk with DFSee and started again. But could not find how to select GPT when creating the first partition.
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Andi,
GPT maintains two copies of the GPT tables. To clear them completely with dfsee, you need to clear both the first and last cylinders of the disk when booted to a setup that does not load the GPT filter driver. The other option is to use InitDisk.
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v 2.52. Included with ArcaOS 5.1.0 EN. Built 2023-08-23. Maybe that's to old. But I really tried. Even looked into the help without any hint.
I even cleared start of the disk with DFSee and started again. But could not find how to select GPT when creating the first partition.
I think there's a basic misunderstanding here: neither MiniLVM nor PTE _create_ a GPT disk. They are partition editors that know how to manipulate an *existing* GPT disk. To create one, you must use 'InitDisk.exe' or DFSee.
After a reboot, MiniLVM will clearly identify which disks are GPT and which are MBR. 'PTE' will only display GPT and will ignore MBR (IIRC). The other partition editors ('lvm.exe' and that java thing) are useless for GPT because they can't see the actual GPT disk.
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v 2.52. Included with ArcaOS 5.1.0 EN. Built 2023-08-23. Maybe that's to old. But I really tried. Even looked into the help without any hint.
I even cleared start of the disk with DFSee and started again. But could not find how to select GPT when creating the first partition.
I think there's a basic misunderstanding here: neither MiniLVM nor PTE _create_ a GPT disk. They are partition editors that know how to manipulate an *existing* GPT disk. To create one, you must use 'InitDisk.exe' or DFSee.
After a reboot, MiniLVM will clearly identify which disks are GPT and which are MBR. 'PTE' will only display GPT and will ignore MBR (IIRC). The other partition editors ('lvm.exe' and that java thing) are useless for GPT because they can't see the actual GPT disk.
Does make sense now. But maybe you understand the confusion. Usually we used the standard tools (fdisk, lvmgui, MiniLVM) or DFSee to create all partitions and volumes. There is also the strong advise to only use ArcaOS tools to create volumes. I guess most of us know about these mentioned tools.
But I for myself never heard about (maybe I've heard but didn't recognize) InitDisk or PTE until a few days ago. Although I created one of my disks with GPT layout, probably during one of my ArcaOS installation trials, I didn't know InitDisk is needed.
So thanks for clarification.