OS/2 Warp 4 | 1996 release, without Software Advantage |
OS/2 Warp 4 | 1996 release including Software Advantage |
MCP | one of the Merlin Convenience pack releases, 1, 2, 2R |
MCP | with Arca Noae software |
eCS | eComStation release, 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.2R, 2.0, 2.1, 2.2 beta |
eCS | with Arca Noae Software |
ArcaOS | versions 5.0.x, 5.1 |
ArcaOS | with Software Subscription |
I hope this helps...
A while back, I suggested OS/2 (and probably most OSes) has Developers and Users, putting myself firmly in the latter class. Since then, I have begun to suspect I should have at least two machines.
One would run normal AOS, currently 5.1 here, and do AOS-type work, including internet (assuming Them As Fix Things can settle the Browser Saga so I need not use my Dell m/c running Win-10).
The other would be the equivalent of the trusty old office typewriter, for writing work, the WP being WordStar-7c. When I ran eCS-2.1, WS-7c ran well. Not so with AOS-5.1's DOS session, which requires me not to invoke certain commands (or the system crashes) and its Win-3.1 session (which is flaky with old reference tools like the Oxford Compendium). So it would be Nice if They could offer a package comprising eCS-2.1 with upgrades of its ability to handle today's disk formats and USB types. Communication with the AOS m/c, as required, would be through intermediate USB storage devices. The AOS m/c, at a pinch, could format those devices. For office work, that's all I need.
What are my chances?
"Abandonware is a product, typically software, ignored by its owner and manufacturer, which can no longer be found for sale, and for which no official support is available and cannot be bought."
ArcaNoae can't sell eCS as much of it is copyrighted by Mensys or their successor. Look at https://www.arcanoae.com/shop/os2-ecs-drivers-software-subscription-personal-renewal/ (https://www.arcanoae.com/shop/os2-ecs-drivers-software-subscription-personal-renewal/) for upgrading your eCS and which drivers you can update.
If someone wants to try OS/2, and downloads a copy from the Internet, I doubt they can get in trouble with IBM, even if they are violating license terms.
It's different for someone who wants to offer OS/2 software. IBM may have issues with someone distributing OS/2 parts and fixpaks. Here on OS/2 World, we don't even give links to unofficial OS/2 media and fixes. But OS/2 has been off the market for 18 years.
Is there some time limit after which OS/2 licensing doesn't matter?
Have we already reached that time?
When can a business or other organization offer OS/2 parts without licensing restrictions?
IBM does not offer support for it.
Hi RemyIBM does not offer support for it.
Are you sure IBM no more providing support as special exclusive contract for customer customer requesting it ?
I remember IBM having provided OS/2 support in year 2015 for a client having a special support contract (not catalog referenced)
[...] Look how long the copyright lasts for a book. That should also apply to software. Which is at least 70 years or in the US, best I can tell.IIRC (and assuming the rules have not changed), literary copyright starts from the moment you create the text and lasts until "lifetime plus 70 years". Companies seem to have ways of refreshing copyrights, however: comics publishers (AIUI) simply need to re-use a character every so often. Titles and brand names can also be affected by rules about "passing off", so (eg) a breakfast cereal called "OS/2 Flakes" might escape IBM's wrath. What a certain well-known corporation would make of impotence medicine whose name included "Microsoft" is anyone's guess.
Changing the subject from Copyright to Trademark
Can we do something evil since IBM let the OS/2 trademark expire ? ;D ;D
- https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=74515112&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=statusSearch
Maybe something like register the logo again and create own our legal T-Shirts.
Any Trademark lawyers friends around?
What access does Arca Noae have to OS/2?
Do they have access to source so they can fix problems or is "all" they get old binaries?
I understand that IBM has no interest trying to open all or parts of the code since there are
so many old copyrights but with a NDA Arca Noae should be able to work around that?
For a period of ten (10) years from the date of receipt of Source Code from the other party, neither party shall disclose to any third party such Source Code of the other party unless such disclosure is made in accordance with terms and conditions regarding confidentiality substantially similar to those contained in Addendum A to this Agreement, entitled "SAMPLE CONFIDENTIAL DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT"
The only way to save anything imho is to use the Linux kernel and build a "personality" on top. But there are no resources nor business case any more.
The problem as far as I know is not Microsoft but all the other companies IBM used as contractors.
Many of them don't even exist any more so finding out who owns rights might be a nightmare.
When the OS/2 kernel source was leaked (20 years ago?) the people I talked to told me they were able to build and use everything that was there. They also told me that according to text in the code there was a lot of subcontractors that kept their copyright. It was not like a Linux kernel where everything has the same license.
If IBM still have some big customers with OS/2 installations they support then they definitely have the code and the tools to build it. Not that many people know how to build it though.
Yes, the divide between kernel and device drivers makes it easier to support more modern hardware. Less stuff in the kernel makes it easier to expand it from the outside.
But in the end, without open source it will fail, it's quite amazing that modern CPU's still supports 30+ years old code. The only way to save anything imho is to use the Linux kernel and build a "personality" on top. But there are no resources nor business case any more.
The problem as far as I know is not Microsoft but all the other companies IBM used as contractors.
Many of them don't even exist any more so finding out who owns rights might be a nightmare.
When the OS/2 kernel source was leaked (20 years ago?) the people I talked to told me they were able to build and use everything that was there. They also told me that according to text in the code there was a lot of subcontractors that kept their copyright. It was not like a Linux kernel where everything has the same license.
If IBM still have some big customers with OS/2 installations they support then they definitely have the code and the tools to build it. Not that many people know how to build it though.
Yes, the divide between kernel and device drivers makes it easier to support more modern hardware. Less stuff in the kernel makes it easier to expand it from the outside.
But in the end, without open source it will fail, it's quite amazing that modern CPU's still supports 30+ years old code. The only way to save anything imho is to use the Linux kernel and build a "personality" on top. But there are no resources nor business case any more.
The problem as far as I know is not Microsoft but all the other companies IBM used as contractors.Seems a bit surprising that the kernel used contractors, device drivers yes.
Many of them don't even exist any more so finding out who owns rights might be a nightmare.QuoteWhen the OS/2 kernel source was leaked (20 years ago?) the people I talked to told me they were able to build and use everything that was there. They also told me that according to text in the code there was a lot of subcontractors that kept their copyright. It was not like a Linux kernel where everything has the same license.
Iirc there was less subcontractor in the kernel compared to PM and tools. I guess IBM never thought about letting anyone outside work with the code so it did not matter then.
Interesting.
I remember hearing rumours that the PowerPC version of OS/2 didn't have as many licensing problems and IBM even considered open sourcing it. It would have needed device drivers, network stack etc as well as an LX loader to run regular OS/2 programs. If it had been released with a good license at the right time, who knows where it may have gone.
Heard that to. I remember visiting a friend with one of these machines with beta version of OS/2 PPC. He was developing a game for the sampler CD.QuoteIf IBM still have some big customers with OS/2 installations they support then they definitely have the code and the tools to build it. Not that many people know how to build it though.
I remember Scott saying what a bitch it was to build, and he was the kernel maintainer.
I've also heard rumors that, yes some big customers (banks?) did have the source.
Quite probable that some big customers has a CD (or several) with encrypted sourcecode. If IBM disappeared or refused to modify things for them they would be able to get the key from some thirdparty (lawyers).QuoteYes, the divide between kernel and device drivers makes it easier to support more modern hardware. Less stuff in the kernel makes it easier to expand it from the outside.
But in the end, without open source it will fail, it's quite amazing that modern CPU's still supports 30+ years old code. The only way to save anything imho is to use the Linux kernel and build a "personality" on top. But there are no resources nor business case any more.
Well the last kernel updates were more like 20 years age. They included supporting SSE etc and fixed some timing issues to boot on what then was modern hardware, they seem to have future proofed it enough that the later kernels can still boot on fairly modern hardware. My Warp 4 install still boots on my 7th generation I5, WPS fails to load though.
The ReactOS kernel would maybe be a better choice to support OS/2. NT did start as OS/2 v3 NT, supported OS/2 1.x binaries up to Win2k or XP and I had a Byte issue, from perhaps '94, with a little news article about MS getting the 2.x Presentation Manager running on NT.
The problem as far as I know is not Microsoft but all the other companies IBM used as contractors.
Many of them don't even exist any more so finding out who owns rights might be a nightmare.
When the OS/2 kernel source was leaked (20 years ago?) the people I talked to told me they were able to build and use everything that was there. They also told me that according to text in the code there was a lot of subcontractors that kept their copyright. It was not like a Linux kernel where everything has the same license.
If IBM still have some big customers with OS/2 installations they support then they definitely have the code and the tools to build it. Not that many people know how to build it though.
Yes, the divide between kernel and device drivers makes it easier to support more modern hardware. Less stuff in the kernel makes it easier to expand it from the outside.
But in the end, without open source it will fail, it's quite amazing that modern CPU's still supports 30+ years old code. The only way to save anything imho is to use the Linux kernel and build a "personality" on top. But there are no resources nor business case any more.
I can provide some clarity. IBM and Microsoft jointly development OS/2 and. Later from about OS/2 2.1 IBM continued the development of OS/2 without Microsoft.
I talk to some people who used todo work for IBM (like a company in Latvia that wrote part of the USB stack). Even they did not get certain sources.
At the time I understood Scitech (who worked on Scitech Display Doctor) also did not get some of the GRADD sources they requested.
The gist was that IBM has always been strict on on Intellectual Property. When I worked at Mensys, Serenity Systems had a ASL contract for eComStation. This is effectively a kind of OEM agreement for OS/2 (binary access). It was looked into if we could get access to the source under IBM supervision. Well that was not possible. What might have been possible was a so called TCO contract. Uhuuu that was in my recollection not something the funds where available for. I seem to recall that this was just a copy of the sources for OS/2 within IBM. What other rights
that may have given I have forgotten this is more then 20 years ago :-)
From what I heard over the years is that around 1996 when IBM started reducing OS/2 funding internally it seems somewhere some of the OS/2 sources where leaked. From what I understand however not everything of OS/2 was leaked. But I have no direct evidence of this leak.
Roderick