OS2 World Community Forum

OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - Technical => Applications => Topic started by: Martin Iturbide on November 17, 2014, 01:02:10 pm

Title: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Martin Iturbide on November 17, 2014, 01:02:10 pm
Hi

I want to do some little brainstorm and try to put over the table the needs that we have on the OS2-eCS platform.

- What do you need on the OS/2-eCS platform?
- Which software is on your Wishlist that could run on OS2-eCS?
- Is there any service(s) that we are missing compared to other platforms?
- Anything that you consider cool on other platforms that will be good to implement on OS2-eCS?

Please just through your ideas, not matter if those are too simple, crazy or too complicated. I don't want to discuss the feasibility of the idea (yet), just the content of it.

Note: I just want to brainstorm here and try to consolidate some ideas, if you think it is a waste of time, please don't comment and move to other discussion on the forum.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Andi B. on November 17, 2014, 03:05:15 pm
- SNAP for integrated Intel video with Multihead (3 times 1920x1200 resolution)
- solving the shared mem problem
- new VBOX with clipboard and full network support
- fast Seamonkey (not slower than on other platforms) and where some (java)scripts do not bring down the whole browser
- AOO which does free all mem when closing and with fixed 'sticky window' ticket
- cmd.exe with more than 8k (more than 80x100 char buffer)
- fixed FPE (floating point exception (?) which crashes QT and other apps)
- WLAN adapter drivers
- up to date VisualSlickEdit

Ok enough for now. If I would spend another minute the list would probably 3 times as long :-)
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Martin Iturbide on November 17, 2014, 03:30:19 pm
Thanks Andi B.

Just throwing some ideas to the air too:
- Panorama: Resolution change without reboot support.
- Panorama: Support for the external VGA/HDMI port to connect it without reboot.

My user experience wish list is listed on the "Comments and Suggestions about eComStation User Experience (http://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php/Comments_and_Suggestions_about_eComStation_User_Experience)" article on the Wiki:
- The "quiet" boot.
- The Boot Logo Animation
- GUI - The Navigator
- GUI – The Desktop Structure
- Installed Apps Shortcuts Reorganization
- GUI – Icon Format
- GUI – eCenter Size / Icon Size
- Directory and File Structure
- The User Files Structure
- Improved GUI Themes.
- Save As / Open file dialog box (Open source)
- Copy/Replace File Dialogs updates
- The tray configuration (very simple)
- Updating the Launchpad.
- Revive "the monster" - XWorkplace.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: David McKenna on November 17, 2014, 03:40:35 pm
 Items not already being worked on:

-Multiple sound streams for UniAud (my pet peeve)
-Updated OpenGL
-Updated VBox
-Updated SNAP
-USB3
-Intel WiFi drivers
-Bluetooth

  I also agree with Andi B's comments on AOO and Seamonkey, but they are in development...
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Dave Yeo on November 17, 2014, 04:40:34 pm
- fixed FPE (floating point exception (?) which crashes QT and other apps)

Libc066 has a fix/workaround for this, apps will need rebuilding
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Andy Willis on November 17, 2014, 05:25:18 pm
Items not already being worked on:

-Multiple sound streams for UniAud (my pet peeve)
-Updated OpenGL
-Updated VBox
-Updated SNAP
-USB3
-Intel WiFi drivers
-Bluetooth

  I also agree with Andi B's comments on AOO and Seamonkey, but they are in development...
Though still in initial phase, Intel WIFI drivers are being worked on (Arca Noae).
USB3 is still in the design phase as it is fundamentally different from USB2 and how to implement it is still being determined; Lars spoke a bit on this at Warpstock.
Bluetooth, no work on it at this point but Lewis has asked how much interest there would be for Bluetooth and for what functions to determine if there is enough interest for Arca Noae to build these.  He posted on the eCS technical list back in September. 
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Alex Taylor on November 17, 2014, 05:32:21 pm
A new text rendering & layout engine for PM, probably based on FreeType + Harbuzz, to replace the out-of-date and no-longer-maintained Innotek Font Engine. Probably only available as a development library, not a runtime replacement like Ft2LIB (which was a cool idea but just not stable enough).  Hopefully this could allow us to finally retire FT2LIB for apps like OpenOffice, for which it is still an anchor around the neck.  (If really ambitious it could be the basis for a new Unicode-capable widget library for PM-based apps like PMMail or ProNews.)  This is one of the big three things that I've long wanted to try tackling myself, but I just don't have the time right now.

UEFI and GPT support.

An IPv6 stack.

Already mentioned by others:
- A solution for the shared memory problem.
- USB3.
- New WiFi drivers for modern adapters.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Dave Yeo on November 17, 2014, 06:30:06 pm
A new text rendering & layout engine for PM, probably based on FreeType + Harbuzz, to replace the out-of-date and no-longer-maintained Innotek Font Engine. Probably only available as a development library, not a runtime replacement like Ft2LIB (which was a cool idea but just not stable enough).  Hopefully this could allow us to finally retire FT2LIB for apps like OpenOffice, for which it is still an anchor around the neck.  (If really ambitious it could be the basis for a new Unicode-capable widget library for PM-based apps like PMMail or ProNews.)  This is one of the big three things that I've long wanted to try tackling myself, but I just don't have the time right now.

Don't we already have that in Cairo? It works pretty well for Mozilla, pretty sure it can use harbuzz (have to try enabling it in Mozilla) and has even been adapted to the WPS, where unluckily it was somewhat fragile.
For something like OO it would probably be too much of a change but other apps could be converted to use it.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: guzzi on November 17, 2014, 09:20:37 pm
Many of the things listed I'd like to see too.
I'll add just one:
Skype
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: R.M. Klippstein on November 17, 2014, 10:39:40 pm
Virtual Box is being worked on and has been for over 4 months now, with disappointing progress, but yes progress. I've managed to compile 4 different working early versions of VirtualBox sources. But my limited experience and knowledge with GCC is the reason I'm unable to progress, so far, on 5 newer versions that I'm trying to get to compile. Help I've received from  Dave Yeo is the only reason I've been able to get this far.
  I would welcome any person proficient in compiling with GCC, limited knowledge of the internal workings of VirtualBox, and having an abundance of time and patience, willing to put up with my short comings, to help me get a usable more up-to-date version of VirtualBox for the OS/2 community.

klipp
rklipp@megared.net.mx
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: eirik on November 18, 2014, 01:03:48 am
Hi,

interesting post and many good suggestions.  As OS/2 - eCS developer resources are scarce, we need to prioritize hard.  For those of us running lap tops the priorities are:

(1) Drivers: Wireless (I assume that everybody who buys a computer checks that wired connection is available)
(2) Panorama: Support for the external VGA/HDMI port to connect it without reboot.
(3) ACPI: activate external screen/projector using function keys (related to (2) above)
(4) ACPI: Suspend/resume (for those with laptops)
(5) JAVA update
(6) Updated versions of email clients and browsers (BitWise is doing excellent work on Mozilla clients and browsers - please keep it up)
(7) Updates on Open Office (ver 4 is just around the corner - great work!)

Eirik
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Alex Taylor on November 18, 2014, 03:55:52 am
A new text rendering & layout engine for PM, probably based on FreeType + Harbuzz, to replace the out-of-date and no-longer-maintained Innotek Font Engine. Probably only available as a development library, not a runtime replacement like Ft2LIB (which was a cool idea but just not stable enough).  Hopefully this could allow us to finally retire FT2LIB for apps like OpenOffice, for which it is still an anchor around the neck.  (If really ambitious it could be the basis for a new Unicode-capable widget library for PM-based apps like PMMail or ProNews.)  This is one of the big three things that I've long wanted to try tackling myself, but I just don't have the time right now.

Don't we already have that in Cairo? It works pretty well for Mozilla, pretty sure it can use harbuzz (have to try enabling it in Mozilla) and has even been adapted to the WPS, where unluckily it was somewhat fragile.
For something like OO it would probably be too much of a change but other apps could be converted to use it.

Cairo is available separately from Gecko?

Cairo, though, has its own API – not something that can be used as a drop-in replacement for Gpi*(), which is kind of the point. Hence whatever backend is used, it has to be wrapped inside a PM-like interface, and probably a Win-like interface as well so that OpenOffice could use it.

I did actually think about Cairo as the backend, but AIUI it's a full 2D graphics drawing library. All I'm interested in is text rendering/shaping/layout. So basically that would mean ignoring basically all of Cairo except the Harfbuzz interface and a few peripheral pieces like line breaking. It surely makes more sense just to use Harfbuzz directly (or possibly a Pango/Harfbuzz hybrid), and I think the result would be a lot more lightweight.

The most important things for me are:
(1) Free OpenOffice from the Innotek Font Engine, which is crippling it.
(2) Make PMMail able to directly display Unicode text (a weakness which is rapidly rendering it unusable for modern work).

I originally saw these as unrelated goals, but it's occurred to me lately that some kind of FT2LIB library replacement, if implemented properly, might be the answer to both.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Dave Yeo on November 18, 2014, 05:40:45 am

Cairo is available separately from Gecko?

Sure, the original port as used by Doodles Screensaver is here, ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/Cairo/ (http://ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/Cairo/) though the version included with our Gecko has more fixes and is mostly complete.
Other example of what can be done with Cairo and the WPS, http://trac.netlabs.org/wps-wizard (http://trac.netlabs.org/wps-wizard). No source though, maybe Martin can wheedle it out from Chris.
Quote
Cairo, though, has its own API – not something that can be used as a drop-in replacement for Gpi*(), which is kind of the point. Hence whatever backend is used, it has to be wrapped inside a PM-like interface, and probably a Win-like interface as well so that OpenOffice could use it.

I did actually think about Cairo as the backend, but AIUI it's a full 2D graphics drawing library. All I'm interested in is text rendering/shaping/layout. So basically that would mean ignoring basically all of Cairo except the Harfbuzz interface and a few peripheral pieces like line breaking. It surely makes more sense just to use Harfbuzz directly (or possibly a Pango/Harfbuzz hybrid), and I think the result would be a lot more lightweight.

Yes it would need a wrapper but it does automatically use fontconfig, freetype and I think pango and harfbuzz. Even gets you things like svg hints in OpenType fonts and could have thumbnails of messages in PMMail. For OpenOffice it would be a huge undertaking I'd guess.
I notice that now harfbuzz is enabled in Mozilla for all scripts, haven't really noticed any difference here compared to older versions. The pref is gfx.font_rendering.harfbuzz.scripts, -1 enables for all scripts, 0 disables and various bits for different scripts.
Quote
The most important things for me are:
(1) Free OpenOffice from the Innotek Font Engine, which is crippling it.
(2) Make PMMail able to directly display Unicode text (a weakness which is rapidly rendering it unusable for modern work).

I originally saw these as unrelated goals, but it's occurred to me lately that some kind of FT2LIB library replacement, if implemented properly, might be the answer to both.

Wonder if something like WPSWizard could replace FT2LIB and take care of all text rendering?
edit: Cairo actually recommends using Pango for anything but the simplest text rendering.
edit2: Pango actually recommends using Cairo for rendering, so basically the idea is to use both I guess.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Silvan Scherrer on November 18, 2014, 12:10:14 pm
Virtual Box is being worked on and has been for over 4 months now, with disappointing progress, but yes progress. I've managed to compile 4 different working early versions of VirtualBox sources. But my limited experience and knowledge with GCC is the reason I'm unable to progress, so far, on 5 newer versions that I'm trying to get to compile. Help I've received from  Dave Yeo is the only reason I've been able to get this far.
  I would welcome any person proficient in compiling with GCC, limited knowledge of the internal workings of VirtualBox, and having an abundance of time and patience, willing to put up with my short comings, to help me get a usable more up-to-date version of VirtualBox for the OS/2 community.

klipp
rklipp@megared.net.mx

klipp,
the problem of a later VBox is not the app and the gui itself. The problem is the driver. And for this there is only one or possible two persons which could update that. As the gui is Qt4 based this is not our concern. And yes the VBox update is since very long on our todo, but the driver dev had still no time to look into it.

regards
Silvan
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Silvan Scherrer on November 18, 2014, 12:12:19 pm

(5) JAVA update
(6) Updated versions of email clients and browsers (BitWise is doing excellent work on Mozilla clients and browsers - please keep it up)
(7) Updates on Open Office (ver 4 is just around the corner - great work!)

Eirik
Eirik,

a java update comes after we have done SWT.
Qt will also get an update.
FFox is ongoing, as you wrote and AOO is also very near now.

regards
Silvan
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Martin Iturbide on November 18, 2014, 09:56:50 pm
Let me post a little summary of the wishlist untill now:

Drivers

    ACPI:
        Activate external screen/projector using function keys (related to (2) above)
        Suspend/resume (for those with laptops)

    Video Drivers:
        Updated SNAP
        SNAP for integrated Intel video with Multihead (3 times 1920x1200 resolution)
        Panorama: Resolution change without reboot support.
        Panorama: Support for the external VGA/HDMI port to connect it without reboot.

    WLAN adapter drivers
        Intel adapters

    Bluetooth

    USB3

    Audio
        Multiple sound streams for UniAud (my pet peeve)

    UEFI and GPT support.

Applications

    VBOX
        new VBOX with clipboard and full network support

    SeaMonkey
        Improve the performance of it.
        Solid Javascript running.

    Apache Open Office
        free all mem when closing and with fixed 'sticky window' ticket
        Free OpenOffice from the Innotek Font Engine, which is crippling it.

    cmd.exe
        More than 8k (more than 80x100 char buffer)

    Editors
        Up to date VisualSlickEdit

    OpenGL

    TCPIP v6 stack

    Video Conference App
        Skype

    Java Update

    PMMail
        Make PMMail able to directly display Unicode text (a weakness which is rapidly rendering it unusable for modern work).

GUI Improvements

    The "quiet" boot.
    The Boot Logo Animation
    GUI - The Navigator
    GUI – The Desktop Structure
    Installed Apps Shortcuts Reorganization
    GUI – Icon Format
    GUI – eCenter Size / Icon Size
    Directory and File Structure
    The User Files Structure
    Improved GUI Themes.
    Save As / Open file dialog box (Open source)
    Copy/Replace File Dialogs updates
    The tray configuration (very simple)
    Updating the Launchpad.
    Revive "the monster" - XWorkplace.


System Limitations

    Solving the shared memory problem

    Fixed FPE (floating point exception (?) which crashes QT and other apps)
        (Libc066 has a fix/workaround for this, apps will need rebuilding)
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Doug Bissett on November 18, 2014, 11:00:44 pm
Quote
Make PMMail able to directly display Unicode text (a weakness which is rapidly rendering it unusable for modern work).

I don't understand this statement. PMMail has done Unicode for ages. If there is a problem with it, please open an incident in the Mantis bug tracker.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Dave Yeo on November 19, 2014, 02:05:32 am
I find SeaMonkey 2.21's performance satisfactory, especially compared to 2.14 and haven't seen the JavaScript script popup for quite sometime.
All the Mozilla apps need HTML5 sound working again though luckily system sounds still work (mail arrival messages and such)
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Alex Taylor on November 19, 2014, 09:16:00 am
Quote
Make PMMail able to directly display Unicode text (a weakness which is rapidly rendering it unusable for modern work).

I don't understand this statement. PMMail has done Unicode for ages. If there is a problem with it, please open an incident in the Mantis bug tracker.

It can process Unicode text (I know, since I wrote that code), but it can't display it – it has to convert it to codepage text first.  This is a fundamental limitation of the native PM controls it uses, hence the necessity of writing new controls which don't rely on native GPI text rendering.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Martin Iturbide on November 25, 2014, 03:17:51 pm
Something that I think was discussed on the past is:

1) Have some kind of hardware reference list of the "supported devices" to run with eComStation/OS/2 Warp.

Example 1: 

Arca Noae releases a list of the hardware they use and support and that are supported on their product "OS/2 & eCS drivers and software package – personal edition". So they can say that their drivers works with this list of hardware, and if you are using these drivers, the best hardware to get is the one on that list.

That does not means that only the hardware listed there will work, it will mean the best hardware for that drivers are the one on that list since they have access to it and the driver was tested with it. And that is the hardware that "Arca Noae" uses and supports for a period of time. Maybe the list can be updated yearly.

Again, this is just an idea for this case,  "OS/2 & eCS drivers and software package – personal edition".

Example 2:

The other thing that I never got time to finish, and did not succeed, on that was to try to create a community based hardware report for the platform based on the OS2World wiki - http://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Hardware (http://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Hardware)

I really wanted to created something "collaborative based" which tries to consolidate all the hardware devices reports for the platform, without worrying about the "ownership" of those compatibility lists (I own this... this is from my site.. don't use my text)..and turn it everything into Creative Commons Share alike.

But sadly:
- Sometime people don't like the wiki to make this long lists.
- I was not able to consolidate the site to make it more attractive and I don't have enough time to pull that project.
- People want an easy form to fill up the hardware reviews and a Wiki is different from that.

....just throwing some ideas to the air.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Martin Iturbide on December 01, 2014, 08:58:37 pm
Hi.

Some days ago I sent this wishlist to Arca Noae as part of their "So, what would you like to see next?" post.
I got a reply from Lewis that I will also like to share on the forum.  The unquoted this are Lewis replies.

Quote
> Subject: So, what would you like to see next?
>
> Message Body:
> Dear Arca Noae
>
> I discussed on the OS2World forum a Wishlist for the platform.
>
> http://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php?topic=581.msg5496#msg5496
>
> I can summary the wish list on this:
>
Quick responses, and yes, you may quote me on these if you like. My answers are along the lines of what Arca Noae is likely to develop or bring to market:

Quote
> DRIVERS
>
>     ACPI:
>         Activate external screen/projector using function keys (related to (2) above)
>         Suspend/resume (for those with laptops)
>
David is working on improving this code. I would direct you to the Arca Noae roadmap:

https://www.arcanoae.com/roadmap/

and the ACPI wiki:

https://www.arcanoae.com/wiki/acpi/

(I see that we currently do not have any mention of ACPI on the roadmap, but it should probably be added.)

Quote
>     Video Drivers:
>         Updated SNAP
>         SNAP for integrated Intel video with Multihead (3 times 1920x1200 resolution)
>         Panorama: Resolution change without reboot support.
>         Panorama: Support for the external VGA/HDMI port to connect it without reboot.
>
We currently do not have licensing for SNAP. The further development of this code is presently out of our hands.

Panorama:

- Resolution change without reboot is a limitation of OS/2, not Panorama. Thus, there is nothing which Panorama can do about this. I do not expect to ever see a change in the underlying OS to support on-the-fly changes in resolution.
- Not sure about the involvement of Panorama insofar as video port hardware is concerned. Unlike SNAP, Panorama is a VESA-only component, talking to the VESA BIOS and not controlling the hardware directly, so I do not believe it has the capability to handle such devices.

Please see the wiki: https://www.arcanoae.com/wiki/panorama/

Quote
>     WLAN adapter drivers
>         Intel adapters
>
On the roadmap:

https://www.arcanoae.com/roadmap/

though not yet on the wiki:

https://www.arcanoae.com/wiki/multimac/

Quote
>     Bluetooth
>
We are looking into the feasibility of this.

Quote
>     USB3
>
Under investigation:

https://www.arcanoae.com/roadmap/
https://www.arcanoae.com/wiki/usb/ (not yet, as this support is not present in the driver)

Quote
>     Audio
>         Multiple sound streams for UniAud (my pet peeve)
>
I will pass this along to David. It is surely a reasonable request.

Quote
>     UEFI and GPT support.
>
GPT is under investigation:

https://www.arcanoae.com/roadmap/

UEFI is a concern, but we haven't yet started talking about how to handle the next generation of systems which will likely be without legacy support (there are some now, but better boards still retain the ability to boot "normally"). We will add this to our roadmap when we have at least a strategy.

Quote
> APPLICATIONS
>
>     VBOX
>         new VBOX with clipboard and full network support
>
No direct plans. I've thrown this idea to the developers we have at hand to see if anyone is interested and willing to get to it. By "full network support," I assume this implies shared folders for OS/2 guests. Clipboard for OS/2 hosts? (Clipboard works under OS/2 guest on Linux - for me, at least.)

Quote
>     SeaMonkey
>         Improve the performance of it.
>         Solid Javascript running.
>
This would naturally grow out of bww's work on Firefox, which is not under our control. You'd have to ask our friends at bww.

Quote
>     Apache Open Office
>         free all mem when closing and with fixed 'sticky window' ticket
>         Free OpenOffice from the Innotek Font Engine, which is crippling it.
>
You'd have to ask our friends at bww.

Quote
>     cmd.exe
>         More than 8k (more than 80x100 char buffer)
>
Likely part of the 4OS2 project. We have no sources for IBM's cmd.exe (which is horribly broken in a number of respects).

Quote
>     Editors
>         Up to date VisualSlickEdit
>
I've asked our development team to look at this.

Quote
>     OpenGL
>
I've asked our development team to look at this.

Quote
>     TCPIP v6 stack
>
I've asked our development team to look at this.
Quote
>     Video Conference App
>         Skype
>
Skype is closed source, AFAIK. However, a good video conferencing app is surely something we'd like to do at some point in time.

http://www.wired.com/2014/09/tox/
https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2012-05-01-microsoft.markdown

Jitsi may be a reasonable alternative:

https://jitsi.org/

Again, we have no current plans. When we do, we will add it to our roadmap.

Quote
>     Java Update
>
You'd have to ask our friends at bww.

Quote
>     PMMail
>         Make PMMail able to directly display Unicode text (a weakness which is rapidly rendering it unusable for modern work).
>
This is an independent project:

http://pmmail.os2voice.org

Quote
> GUI IMPROVEMENTS
> http://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php/Comments_and_Suggestions_about_eComStation_User_Experience
>
>     The "quiet" boot.
>     The Boot Logo Animation
>     GUI - The Navigator
>     GUI – The Desktop Structure
>     Installed Apps Shortcuts Reorganization
>     GUI – Icon Format
>     GUI – eCenter Size / Icon Size
>     Directory and File Structure
>     The User Files Structure
>     Improved GUI Themes.
>     Save As / Open file dialog box (Open source)
>     Copy/Replace File Dialogs updates
>     The tray configuration (very simple)
>     Updating the Launchpad.
>     Revive "the monster" - XWorkplace.
>
XWP is currently under development (by the maintainer and others, not by Arca Noae).

All the rest of these either fall under the purview of the operating system publisher (XEU) or might be considered by various other WPS enhancers. We presently have no plans to update any of these components, other than the desktop enhancements offered by eCo Software, which may become available in our store:

https://www.arcanoae.com/shop/

Quote
> SYSTEM LIMITATIONS
>
>     Solving the shared memory problem
>
We can try to work around it, but the OS/2 memory model was simply not designed for the type of code we find ourselves running on the platform these days. Without a rewrite of the kernel, a real solution is not likely. We have no current plans for this.

Quote
>     Fixed FPE (floating point exception (?) which crashes QT and other apps)
>         (Libc066 has a fix/workaround for this, apps will need rebuilding)
>
Some of our developers seem to be doing different things about this, but we currently have no direct project to address it.

Quote
> SERVICES
> Hardware reference list of the "supported devices" to run with eComStation/OS/2 Warp with Arca Noae's Drivers products.
>
This has been requested, and we are working on providing a facility for this. I'll update the roadmap with news.

Quote
> Please remember that this is just a wish list constructed by some of the member of the OS2World forum and I'm sending it to you for your evaluation.
>
And I'm glad you did!

Cheers, my friend.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Martin Iturbide on December 01, 2014, 09:13:08 pm
Hi

I will like to thank Lewis for taking the time to read and reply about this wish list.

For the moment I only have this comment: 
Quote
XWP is currently under development
Yes and Now. XWP developers (Paul Ratcliffe and Rich Walsh) are doing a great job fixing bugs on XWP, but there is not an active evolution of XWP.  I hope that more features included to XWP or even evolving it to became a full replacement of WPS classes.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Mike La Martina on December 01, 2014, 09:55:11 pm
As a musician I am chagrined that I must use Windows to run my digital audio workstations.  I see that one of my favories Guitar Pro has a Linux version.  This is probably not a very popular request.  I need native Midi support.  Timidity does not work for me.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Andi B. on December 01, 2014, 09:56:20 pm
Quote
By "full network support," I assume this implies shared folders for OS/2 guests.
No, not for me. I want OS/2 to be the host and run Windoze for the few apps which I need as guest. When times come I've to switch the 'host' OS, probably I will not have much need for a virtualized OS/2 anymore. If OS/2 - eCS does not run natively on my hardware anymore I think it's finally over :-(

What I meant was usable performance for the guest running on OS/2 host speed wise (don't want to wait ten minutes to transfer 100MBs or so which I've to do regularly for backup reasons). Including Multicast packets to connect to my SMA converter which btw. works with the ancient Innotek port of Connectix VirtualPC, and Netbios which does show all files/folders not only part of them offered by host (works with VPC too). And with correct timing for the guest (I guess that's the problem) for the Card TAN generator used by my banking software inside guest Win (works with VPC too but not with VBOX).

Quote
Clipboard for OS/2 hosts?
Yes. F.i. it's way easier to copy/past IBAN from email (Seamonkey running on eCS) to the banking software running inside VBOX than doing this manually. Btw. VPC does still work but does have other drawbacks compared to VBOX.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: ivan on December 01, 2014, 11:42:24 pm
Like Andy B, we, and our clients, are only interested in OS/2 being the host system for other virtualized OSs. 

It would be very nice to get an updated Vbox that would have the additions to allow us to test, for example, win 7.  At the moment win 7 runs but there is no way to get the additions to work with it which is a PITA.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Daniel on December 02, 2014, 12:04:26 am
A second vote for MIDI. This means that a modern hardware device is supported, so that I can record from my wind controller and play to my JV-2080 or whatever...  It would be nice to be able to do some editing too. My needs are simple.

Drivers for my laptop to access the outside world without having to use a memory stick or a card. Specifically:
Atheros AR 9285 WIFI and AR 8131 Ethernet.

Of course I would like other things, but my desires are much the same as everyone else and have been mentioned before.

Good luck to the developers and companies. I've been there.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Mentore on December 02, 2014, 09:09:59 am
A second vote for MIDI. This means that a modern hardware device is supported, so that I can record from my wind controller and play to my JV-2080 or whatever...  It would be nice to be able to do some editing too. My needs are simple.

Drivers for my laptop to access the outside world without having to use a memory stick or a card. Specifically:
Atheros AR 9285 WIFI and AR 8131 Ethernet.

Of course I would like other things, but my desires are much the same as everyone else and have been mentioned before.

Good luck to the developers and companies. I've been there.

A third vote for MIDI. OS/2 is (was? I think it still IS) far superior to Windows when it comes to timers and time resolution is the key factor in MIDI handling.

We have/had a great MIDI sequencing software (MIDI Station Sequencer) and some interesting experiments in score editors (like my ABC and Mup ports). So it's a start.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: R.M. Klippstein on December 02, 2014, 06:11:43 pm
ivan & Andi B. -- Same here, My clients  (as well as myself) are only interested in running OS/2 as host and VBox running clients Windoz and Linux. I've been working for quite some time compiling newer versions with some success, but progress is is VERY slow, help for this project is virtually non-existant. I'd be interested in hearing any comments you might have in you're use of vbox.

klipp
rklipp at megared dot net dot mx 
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Andy Willis on December 02, 2014, 07:34:38 pm
ivan & Andi B. -- Same here, My clients  (as well as myself) are only interested in running OS/2 as host and VBox running clients Windoz and Linux. I've been working for quite some time compiling newer versions with some success, but progress is is VERY slow, help for this project is virtually non-existant. I'd be interested in hearing any comments you might have in you're use of vbox.

klipp
rklipp at megared dot net dot mx
Myself, I would like to have OS/2 host with sound and USB support for the client.
Title: Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
Post by: Olafur Gunnlaugsson on December 03, 2014, 06:33:12 am
A third vote for MIDI. OS/2 is (was? I think it still IS) far superior to Windows when it comes to timers and time resolution is the key factor in MIDI handling.

We have/had a great MIDI sequencing software (MIDI Station Sequencer) and some interesting experiments in score editors (like my ABC and Mup ports). So it's a start.

I know someone who is working on this, but preliminary work only in his spare time, I did some work on this around 2000, the issues then were:

RTMIDI was/is hopeless, Timur Tabi had done a partial MIDI implementation and then stopped work on it, he promised to supply source code but that never happened so the 2 or 3 major projects that actually used RTMIDI had to stop development including MIDI Station and AudioStation, the code as it was did not even support MIDI sysex passing, it was so basic. It was also in retrospect probably the wrong way around in the way it was implemented, instead of implementing MIDI functions it should have passed them through and concentrated on controlling the basics of the protocol and act as a timing reference, much simpler.

It would make a lot more sense to start again with something that emulates the MIDI part of VST3 (not the VST3 specification but the control section only, it is a bit like MIDI++), and then have MIDI as a subsystem of that, no need to implement the specifics, let the application or plugin handle that.

The basic Multimedia audio subsystem is ancient, it has seen no work on it since OS/2 2.0, it needs to be looked at, unusually since it was one of the few things that had been written from scratch by IBM so Serenity Systems said they could actually get the source for that as well, but that never happened either. While it functions perfectly well as it is, or reasonably well depending on what axis you look at it, the issue is if you want to support something that did not exist at the time of its original like DSD (HQ 1bit audio), multichannel audio processing (for music making or home cinema) or very low latency audio (not needed for MM but for music making), you might as well start from scratch.

The other reason that you might want to rewrite the audio subsystem is that modern microprocessors have SMID and other DSP functions that did not exist at all when the original  MM subsystem was developed, a simple module or plug-in architecture that would allow audio processing to take advantage of this without going through the complexities of what we have with current windows and Linux solutions that are all over-ambitious

All in all the audio portion is actually not that big a project, not compared to other parts of the system, but it needs someone that knowns what he is doing, or is willing to learn.