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OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - Technical => Setup & Installation => Topic started by: Mathias on May 06, 2014, 02:19:02 am

Title: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Mathias on May 06, 2014, 02:19:02 am
Hi ^^/ name's Mathias; 33 years - I'm new to the site and forums.

I was running Warp 3 (Release 8.162) in the 90ies on a 486 DX2-66 using an "ATI Mach 64" as graphics card, which is supported by default in Warp 3.
Back then I fell in love with Warp 3 and was using it mostly to run DOS games (as memmaker was no longer regquired with Warp 3). - Also had a look into PMREXX, CoBOL and some more.
The look and feel was intuitive and was just lovely. - And I've missed it!!

Now I had the chance to rebuild my 486er on hardware basis. - THAT works... just the ATI Mach 64 does not anymore. :(
So.. for the time being .. until I have ebay'ed another Mach64, I thought .. why not try Warp 3 with Oracle's VirtualBox? - Said, done.

Warp 3 booted nicely in 640x480x16 mode using the default VGA driver. Keyboard mapping, etc everything works. - Even network with TCP! \o/

Now, for starters, I'd like to have some resolution like 1024x768 or greater if possible. - So, there is an OS/2 driver pack included with VirtualBox - Cool! Following the brief instructions ... it failed to work. On boot, Warp 3 tells me that it failed to load the shortly replaced gengradd.dll. - Continued booting .. and it looked the same as before: 640x480x16. :o

So, the VBox driver doesn't work. In general it does not say which version of Warp is supported in the first place. Do they mean 2? 3? 4?
Perhaps there is an alternative, that I don't know! But maybe YOU do? ^^*

Also! I have heard about Warp Fix Packs. I have, so far, not installed any, also not back then.
As there is a whole lot of them [http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/h-browse.php?dir=/pub/os2/system/patches/fixpack/warp_3 (http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/h-browse.php?dir=/pub/os2/system/patches/fixpack/warp_3)], I've got a few questions:
1) Does installing such a fix pack help with my problem?
2) Are ALL these files required, or just the latest one?
3) What does all the stuff mean "OS/2 Warp 3.x family FixPack XR_W010 - Disk 2" and "OS/2 Warp 3.x family FixPack XR_W007 - Disk 1" - quite confusing... which do I need @_@
4) Are these compatible with the german localized Warp 3 version? - And if not, is there another source for these?

So far.. - Already big thanks for reading all this! And maybe YOU can even answer some of these questions. - And pleease... I am not new to Warp, but a newbie, when it comes to techical interna. - I DO want to learn and to read instruction manuals! Just.. when it gets too confusing, I rather ask.. oo;

Hope you can help. - In case you need more info (which is likely the case), please ask. : )

~ Warp ~
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 06, 2014, 02:55:46 am
Hi Mathias

Welcome to OS2World.

So, the VBox driver doesn't work.
Maybe you can try the Scitech Snap video drivers. To be honest I have not tried it on Warp 3, but you can make a backup of you VM and try it out.

Here are the files:
http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/h-viewer.php?dir=/pub/os2/system/drivers/video&file=snap-os2-3.1.8.zip

1) Does installing such a fix pack help with my problem?
I'm not sure if the latest fixpack for Warp 3 can solve your video problems, but it is always a good exercise to try to put Warp 3 to the latest fixpack level.

2) Are ALL these files required, or just the latest one?
You require only the last one. You do not need to install the older fixpacks.

3) What does all the stuff mean "OS/2 Warp 3.x family FixPack XR_W010 - Disk 2" and "OS/2 Warp 3.x family FixPack XR_W007 - Disk 1" - quite confusing... which do I need @_@
XR_W007 and XR_W010 are the name of the fixpacks for the US language. A German fixpack is for example "XRGW042" which means Fixpack 42 in German.

4) Are these compatible with the german localized Warp 3 version? - And if not, is there another source for these?
The latest fixpack for Warp 3 German I was able to find was "xrgw042". (It is Fixpak 42)
All the files are here: ftp://ps.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/os2/fixes/v3.0warp/german/xrgw042/


Now you have to remember how to install a Fixpack from the hard disk :)

Please, everybody is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong on this reply.
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Mathias on May 06, 2014, 03:08:48 am
Wow! That was fast! :)
Thanks a lot Martin! I will try this out immediately after getting up later on. :) - Got late (03am already >_<) and I need sleep - Lucky me, got a free day hrhr

I'll report back with the results o/

Mathias
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Dave Yeo on May 06, 2014, 03:51:41 am
You need at least FP35 on Warp V3 for Scitech and probably plain Gradd drivers.
Also be aware that the latest VirtualBox has a broken Gradd driver.
There are other fixes you should install such as the 32 bit network stack. This site used to be a pretty good listing. Some links are probably dead but Google's your friend. http://web.archive.org/web/20060926004818/www.warpupdates.mynetcologne.de/english/site_contents.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20060926004818/www.warpupdates.mynetcologne.de/english/site_contents.html)
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Alex Taylor on May 06, 2014, 05:07:17 am
FixPaks explained in general: http://www.altsan.org/os2/fixpaks/index.html

The easiest way of downloading and installing a FixPak: http://www.altsan.org/os2/fixpaks/index.html

I believe you want FixPak 40 German, about halfway down the first table, which was the last free FixPak for Warp 3.  (FixPak 42 and 43 are newer, but only installable on Warp Server unless you have the special subscription versions from IBM).
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Fahrvenugen on May 06, 2014, 05:46:50 am
Hi,

Unless you want to go hacking syslevel files, then you are best to stick with Fixpak 40.  For the base Warp 3 (the  client desktop version)  the last fixpak that IBM released was 40.  Warp Server (the server version built on top of Warp 3) did come out with Fixpak's 41 and 42, these both can be made to work on Warp 3 desktop, however it is unsupported and there are a few files that can introduce instabilities on the client version.  40 is pretty stable and fixes the majority of the issues.

To get GRADD or SNAP to work you will need at least Fixpak 35, however I recommend 40 since it fixed some of the problems that still existed in 35.

Note that I've only used Warp 3 on real hardware, I have no idea if the following suggestions work on Virtualbox.  Having said that, not long ago (about 4 months) I had to set up 2 Warp 3 machines on newer hardware.  Here's some tips.

For starters, make sure you've got a copy of unzip (I normally use the info-zip unzip app), also you'll want  DSKXTRCT from Hobbes in order to extract the DSK files to  a folder on your hard disk (they're the ones meant to be extracted to a floppy, but no one wants to use a floppy anymore)

Here's where to find dskxtrct:

http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/h-search.php?key=dskxtrct&pushbutton=Search

The easiest way to install a Fixpak is to use the RSU version of the fixpak.  Grab all the xrgw* files from:

ftp://ps.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/os2/rsu/xrgw040/

Then grab the CSF Service utility (the one modified to let you install from a hard disk):

ftp://ps.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/os2/rsu/csf143.zip

Unzip all the XRGW* files into a single directory / folder, and unzip the CSF file into another folder.

As an example the last time I set up a Warp 3 machine (about 4 months ago), I set up the following folders:

c:\fp40

c:\service

I unzipped all the XR* files into c:\fp40, and unzipped the csf file into c:\service

Also, I created a folder called c:\archive (where the FP utility will put the archived copies of the files it replaces)

Then from a command prompt, I switched into the c:\service folder:

cd c:\service

and ran the command:

os2serv c:\service\csf c:\fp40

Okay, now here's the part where I'm going by memory so it may not be 100% exact, but it should be close (I'm using a Linux machine to respond to this message tonight)

After a while it'll pop up with a CSF utility screen, it'll list a couple of products it can service (it should list OS/2 and MMPM).  Click on the OS list entry, then there is an "Advanced" check box that you can select - go ahead and tick that off.  And hit install (or something like that).  In a moment it'll pop up with the CSF install utility that you've possibly seen from days of old (the one which used to require you to play floppy-disk-toaster to install the thing - don't worry - it'll install from the hard disk this time).

It'll give you the same list of both the base OS and the Multimedia stuff - highlite them both and chose the install option again.  It'll then give you the option for where you want your backup folder (or archive folder) to be, type in your c:\archive that you created earlier.

Then hit okay - it'll give you a warning about some of the files which it won't process until it does a reboot, go ahead and select the OK (or allow it to process them on reboot) option, it should start applying the fixpak.

For some reason the last time I did this it came up on some files which it felt were newer on the hard disk then on the fixpak, I'm not sure why since the fixpak dates from around 1998, the original release came out in 1994.  Go ahead and replace the files, unless they relate to one of the drivers that needed to be replaced to get the thing to run (such as ibm1s506, or the likes).

Once done it'll give you a message that it needs a reboot - go ahead and reboot.

Note, once you get Fixpak 40 installed, if you've gone with the base TCP/IP 3.0 that comes with Warp Connect you may also want to install TCP/IP fixpak UNG0959 too - it'll add a bunch of fixes for TCP/IP.  It is at:

ftp://ps.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/tcpip/fixes/v3.1os2/un00959/german/

For UN0959 you'll need dskxtrct (they're all in .dsk files), see my note above on that.  Be sure to create another folder on your hard disk for this.  The process to start the CSF install for the TCP/IP fixpak install is the same as with the FP40 above, just substitute the directory containing the fixpak in your command line.

Once you get TCP/IP UN0959 successfully installed - reboot.  You can check your tcp/ip version from the command line with an inetver command - and see if your TCP/IP is working.

If you want you can then try to install the 32 bit MPTS stack - which will replace the TCP/IP stuff with the 32 bit version.  Most of the time the 32 bit MPTS works on Warp 3, however I have heard some stories talking of difficulty (I've never experienced difficulty)

The base MPTS 32 bit install is:

ftp://ps.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/mpts/fixes/german/wrg8610_conv/

For that one you'll also need dskstrct to extract the files (create another folder to install from).  When extracted, there will be an mpts.exe file in the folder - run that and it will start up the installation routine.

The base WR8610 is buggy, so you'll need to then install the WR8621 fixpak, at:

ftp://ps.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/mpts/fixes/german/wrg8621/

And then even with the 8621 fixpak, TCP/IP still has a habbit of hanging, so you'll need to grab the newstack.zip update from Hobbes:

http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/h-search.php?sh=1&button=Search&key=newstack&stype=all&sort=type_name&dir=%2F

If you want to track the version levels of TCP/IP from the command line, you can run inetver each time and see what level it is at.

If you've installed the IBM Peer services, you'll need the Peer fixpak, for Warp 3 (German) it is at:

ftp://ps.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/lan/fixes/ibm.peer/german/ipg8196/

Are we having fun yet?

The other issue that can happen on some Warp 3 machines (and Warp 4 also had this difficulty on some machines too) is that it won't see memory above 64 Megs.  This has to do with how the loader handles initial memory allocation (or something like that).  To find out if your machine is affected, grab from Hobbes something like countmem and see what it reports.

http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/h-search.php?sh=1&button=Search&key=countmem.zip&stype=all&sort=type_name&dir=%2Fpub%2Fos2%2Futil%2Fmemory


If you find that you're only seeing 64 megs, then grab patchldr.zip from Hobbes  and try it.  It'll patch the loader to allow OS/2 to see more then 64 megs.  I've had to use it on quite a number of the systems I've set up with Warp 3.

http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/h-search.php?sh=1&button=Search&key=patchldr.zip&stype=all&sort=type_name&dir=%2F

Okay, I think I've got most of the stuff  here that you'll need to get you up and running a stable system.  I might be missing something, if I am then I can try and figure it out with my actual Warp 3 system. 

Fahrvenugen

Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Fahrvenugen on May 06, 2014, 08:27:26 am
Hi again,

One thing I didn't think to ask - are you running Warp 3 Connect, or just plain Warp 3 (without the Connect stuff)?

If you're running Warp 3 (non-connect) with just the Internet Access Kit from the Bonuspack, then things can get a little more interesting.

Do an inetver at the command line - if it says anything about tcp/ip version 2 (or if the box does not contain the word "connect" on it) then you're probably running the original Warp with the Bonuspack internet access kit - based on an even earlier version of TCP/IP - Version 2.0.

I could be incorrect, but I *think* the the important updates for version 2 are at:

ftp://ps.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/tcpip/fixes/v2.0os2/un64092/

with the latest stack being at:

ftp://ps.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/tcpip/fixes/v2.0os2/latest/stack/

There is a whole bunch of updates for TCP/IP V2.0, I can't recall what you actually need and what you don't:

ftp://ps.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/tcpip/fixes/v2.0os2/

Originally Warp 3 (the non-connect version) was not shipped with any network drivers - it was only set up to access the internet via dialup modem (using difficult-to-configure PPP software at that).  If you wanted the full network stuff you were supposed to buy the Connect version.  But...  If I recall correctly (and this is going back many years - the last time I used a non-connect version of Warp 3 was a long time ago) it is possible to add the 16 bit version of MPTS to a non-connect version of Warp 3 with the Internet Access Kit by downloading it directly from IBM.  I *think* that TCP/IP 2.0 was limited to the 16 bit MPTS - if I recall there were reports that it didn't like the 32 bit stack, but it has been so long ago I could be incorrect on that.

The 16 bit mpts installation can be found at:

ftp://ps.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/mpts/fixes/german/wrg8423_conv/

And of course there is a fixpack for it at:

ftp://ps.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/mpts/fixes/german/wrg8425_conv/

Note that IBM did not officially support running the full 16 bit MPTS on the non-connect version of Warp 3 (and some have suggested this may not be supported by the MPTS license).  At this point I'm not sure IBM is all that concerned about the way an individual user uses a license on Warp 3 (a 20 year old product), and of course IBM no longer supports Warp 3 at all (at least not for consumers) however it is worth the note of caution if you are concerned about such things.

Of course if you're running Warp 3 connect, then you can ignore all this TCP/IP Version 2 / MPTS 16 bit stuff.
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Mathias on May 06, 2014, 12:19:44 pm
WOW! : )

Many thanks! You guys are the best! Currently reading through everything, going to take action afterwards.


Fahrvenugen: This version of Warp 3 was included with my PC, that I got back then. (Was (and still is) my first PC.) - Looking onto the OS2 package, I cannot find anything saying "connect". So I suppose it is the earlier version with the dialup application in the "Bonus Pak".

Running "inetver" on the OS2 prompt, returns "Inet Version: 4.00e". - Yup without the connect appendix.

Most interesting thing for me is now, how to get all these patches and fixes into my Warp Vbox, as the VBox drivers with file integration to the host system do not work (yet).
Is there anything like wget or something to load files via the (already working) network via TCP?

If everything fails, I download and prepare all the files in linux, run mkisofs and mount the blob as a CD into Warp3... hmm.. could work. : )
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 06, 2014, 02:35:48 pm
Is there anything like wget or something to load files via the (already working) network via TCP?

If everything fails, I download and prepare all the files in linux, run mkisofs and mount the blob as a CD into Warp3... hmm.. could work. : )

There is wget for OS/2, but I think that the best option now is make an CD ISO with all the patches that you need. The issue is that Warp 3 is so old (and you are not using the Connect version) that you don't have installed the required tool to access the Internet (IMHO).

Maybe someone can share the road to have Internet Access on Warp 3. I remember that need to install MPTN (so you can install the network adpter), TCP/IP a browser, etc.

It can be interesting to try to write an article about how putting Warp 3 up to date. I have one about Warp 4.52 (http://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php/Updating_OS/2_Warp_4.52) on the Wiki. I will have to think a little bit about it.
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Mathias on May 06, 2014, 03:27:00 pm
current status is:

FixPak 40 for Warp3 DE: successfully applied!
updating TCP/IP with fixpak UNG0959: missing connect package --> failed


Details:
The fixpack installation replaced the following things:

Code: [Select]
C:\MMOS2\INSTALL\SYSLEVEL.MPM XRG3000 - the "IBM Multimedia presentation Manager/2"
C:\OS2IMAGE\DISK_1\SYSLEVEL.OS2 XRG3000 - the "IBM OS/2 Base operating system"
C:\OS2\INSTALL\SYSLEVEL.OS2 XRG3000 - the "IBM OS/2 Base operating system"

[_] Advanced  [X] Timestamp Log  [_] Replace newer

--> GO

was following the progress in the full screen patching screen, as fixtool recommended.
Suddenly everything was closed, and an error messagebox appeard, saying:
Code: [Select]
"Install failed, RC 1. Check C:\OS2\INSTALL\Service.Log for information"
[OK]

Looking into that Service.Log file, I can see it replaced maany many files, some were already up2date, most were not.
At the end of the file, it says:
Code: [Select]
Corrective service has been successfully applied. Ended, RC 1
Install failed, RC 1. Check C:\OS2\INSTALL\Service.Log for information

so.. did it finish successfully or did it not?! ;-) - Anyway.. I think it was successful, as a search in the Log file brought up, that only patching the windows integration in OS2 did not work. - But that is ok, as it is not installed or needed.)

Did a proper shutdown and rebooted the machine.
Everything still working. No change in optics yet.
Shutdown. Creating a VBox snapshot. Starting again.

--> Continuing the process, and updating TCP/IP with fixpak UNG0959.
Brought up an error message:
Code: [Select]
No serviceable products found on your harddisk. No match between CSD Level and COMPID of any product found by SYSLEVEL command and those supported by this FixPak.

--> appears like I need to install that connect package..... MPTS it was, right? --> checking this out..

Yeah, I think IBM and those who bought the license for OS/2 cannot make profit from OS/2 Warp 3 still. It's not like that I am trying to fiddle with their current eComStation, but with an operating system, that has already died 20 years ago. So, why not upgrade it to full a full scale usable product.. : )
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Fahrvenugen on May 06, 2014, 03:42:14 pm
Hi,

This was a pre-load?  Things might be different then!

TCP/IP Version 4.0 was introduced with Warp 4, I'm not sure why it would be on Warp 3, unless it was a unique version that I havn't seen (which is possible)

If you've got network access via a network card already then you've already got a version of MPTS of some level.

Run syslevel from a command prompt.

What is the syslevel.tcp output?  That'll tell us which  tcp/ip you have

There should also be one for mpts and such.

If you can do that, then we can help figure out which fixpaks apply.

Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Fahrvenugen on May 06, 2014, 03:48:57 pm
Now that you mention it, I think there was at some time an application that someone wrote to allow for the automatic download and install of a lot of these fixes, I seem to recall it was set up for Warp 3 and Warp 4 - to scan your system, figure out what to install, and install it.  Does anyone have the URL to that site?

This app was different from the RSUINSTL.EXE one that IBM came out with, but used some of the same techniques for install.  I'm not sure if it is even still around, a quick google and I'm not finding it.

Martin - maybe one of these days I'll work on an article for the wiki about getting Warp 3 up and running.
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Dave Yeo on May 06, 2014, 04:30:46 pm
There was os2mt but the web site now is about food (cooking) and in Cyrillic.
mailto:info@os2mt.tk
http://www.os2mt.tk
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 06, 2014, 05:16:15 pm
Dave: The page was archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20100705110805/http://www.os2mt.tk/
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Mathias on May 06, 2014, 05:51:41 pm
Whoa, an auto-installer would be convenient indeed! - Still, everything that is automated takes knowledge away, that would else be required to install things manually. Not sure if that would be good, but deeeefinitely a help to automatically extract all these disk images atleast, as Warp 3 appears to lack file name auto-complete via the TAB key, which I grew used to over the years.... *g*

Mhm.. not sure which version of Warp 3 I've got. Just that it is "Warp 3 Release 8.162", according to ver /r on the OS/2 prompt. - This is when it is freshly installed from the original CD. Out of the BonusPak-CD, I have only installed the "IBM Internet Connection for OS/2". - That is how TCP came on my machine.
I still lack commands like ftp or telnet.. or a browser though.
Ping, arp and the like does work, even DNS names can be used.

Anyway. After applying the FixPak 40 for Warp3 "ver /r" does now return: "Warp 3 Release 8.264"


Now here is the output of the syslevel command (I better post everything, might come in handy for further diagnosis)
Code: [Select]
C:\OS2\INSTALL\SYSLEVEL.SDS
Distributed SOM Framework
Version 2.01.6 Component ID 562222700
Current CSD-Level: SM20012
Previous CSD-Level: none

C:\OS2\INSTALL\SYSLEVEL.SEM
SOM Event Management Framework
Version 2.01.6 Component ID 562222700
Current CSD-Level: SM20012
Previous CSD-Level: none

C:\OS2\INSTALL\SYSLEVEL.SUT
SOMobjects Utility  Classes
Version 2.01.6 Component ID 562222700
Current CSD-Level: SM20012
Previous CSD-Level: none

C:\OS2\INSTALL\SYSLEVEL.SIR
SOMobjects Interface Repository Framework
Version 2.01.6 Component ID 562222700
Current CSD-Level: SM20012
Previous CSD-Level: none

C:\OS2\INSTALL\SYSLEVEL.SRK
SOM Run-time Kernel
Version 2.01.6 Component ID 562222700
Current CSD-Level: SM20012
Previous CSD-Level: none

C:\OS2\INSTALL\SYSLEVEL.GRE
IBM OS/2 32-Bit Graphics Support
Version 3.00 Component ID 562260100
Type W
Current CSD-Level: XRG3000
Previous CSD-Level: XRG3000

C:\OS2\INSTALL\SYSLEVEL.OS2
IBM OS/2 Operating System
Version 3.00 Component ID 562260100
Type W
Current CSD-Level: XRGW040
Previous CSD-Level: XRG3000

C:\OS2\INSTALL\SYSLEVEL.SCT
SOMobjects Collection Classes
Version 2.01.6 Component ID 562222700
Current CSD-Level: SM20012
Previous CSD-Level: none

C:\OS2\INSTALL\SYSLEVEL.FPK
OS/2 Warp 3 Service Level
Version 1.00 Component ID 566933010
Type: FixPak
Current CSD-Level: XRGW040
Previous CSD-Level: XRGW040

C:\OS2IMAGE\DISK_1\SYSLEVEL.OS2
IBM OS/2 Base Operating System
Version 3.00 Component ID 562260100
Type W
Current CSD-Level: XRGW040
Previous CSD-Level: XRG3000

C:\IBMCOM\SYSLEVEL.TRP
IBM OS/2 LAN Adapter and Protocol Support
Version 5.10 Component ID 5639A5700
Current CSD-Level: WR08400
Previous CSD-Level: WR08210

C:\MPTN\SYSLEVEL.DHC
IBM OS/2 Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol Services
Version 4.00 Component ID 562290901
Current CSD-Level: WR08400
Previous CSD-Level: WR08210

C:\MPTN\SYSLEVEL.MPT
IBM OS/2 TCP/IP Stack
Version 5.10 Component ID 5639B1700
Current CSD-Level: WR08400
Previous CSD-Level: WR08210

C:\IBMI18N\SYSLEVEL.I18
IBM I18N Toolkit
Version 1.05 Component ID 5639A5700
Current CSD-Level: WR08400
Previous CSD-Level: WR08210

C:\MMOS2\INSTALL\SYSLEVEL.MPM
IBM Multimedia Presentation Manager/2
Version 3.00 Component ID 562137400
Current CSD-Level: XRGW040
Previous CSD-Level: XRG3000

Is that of any help?
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 07, 2014, 12:38:51 am
I wanted to try the fun too.

1) I installed Warp 3 (Blue) from the diskettes on VirtualBox.
2) Installed Fixpack 44
3) Installed SNAP Video drivers after that.

It boot and looked pretty good, but the mouse pointer broke.

4) I installed VBOXMOUSE.SYS and it get back working.

Nice.... there it goes a picture of the two parrots fighting to death :)
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Fahrvenugen on May 07, 2014, 07:39:13 am
Hi Mathais,

I'm beginning to suspect that IBM put out a version with a few extras for what you've got there.  My thinking is that for XR?3000 on syslevel.os2 and syslevel.mpm normally means you've got the original OS/2 Warp (non-connect) version (see the previous CSD level below).

Quote
C:\OS2\INSTALL\SYSLEVEL.OS2
IBM OS/2 Operating System
Version 3.00 Component ID 562260100
Type W
Current CSD-Level: XRGW040
Previous CSD-Level: XRG3000
 
C:\MMOS2\INSTALL\SYSLEVEL.MPM
IBM Multimedia Presentation Manager/2
Version 3.00 Component ID 562137400
Current CSD-Level: XRGW040
Previous CSD-Level: XRG3000

However I also note that you have a couple of items that normally only get installed if you've got the Warp Connect or Warp Server version, specifically:


Quote
C:\MPTN\SYSLEVEL.MPT
IBM OS/2 TCP/IP Stack
Version 5.10 Component ID 5639B1700
Current CSD-Level: WR08400
Previous CSD-Level: WR08210

C:\IBMCOM\SYSLEVEL.TRP
IBM OS/2 LAN Adapter and Protocol Support
Version 5.10 Component ID 5639A5700
Current CSD-Level: WR08400
Previous CSD-Level: WR08210

C:\MPTN\SYSLEVEL.DHC
IBM OS/2 Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol Services
Version 4.00 Component ID 562290901
Current CSD-Level: WR08400
Previous CSD-Level: WR08210

Normally these show up on the Connect version after you've installed MPTS, although the version of the "IBM OS/2 LAN Adapter and Protocol Support" is the version that was in Warp Server (the version of Warp Server built on top of Warp 3).  It isn't all that big a deal though - it'll all work together.


Have a look at your install CD and see if you've got folder:

\cid\img\tcpip

or

\cid\img\tcpapps

(something to do with tcp in the cid\img folder on the install CD).

If you do have this, then in there you should find an install .exe file, this will install the full TCP/IP stack, as opposed to the Internet Access Kit you found in the bonuspack. Go ahead and install that version of TCP/IP, it should have a full stack in it.

Here's a little background of what's going on (history lesson time!).  At the time that Warp 3 was released, IBM put out Warp with the Bonuspack, which included stuff like the internet access kit, IBM Works, that software to access Compuserve, and a few other items.  The internet access kit in the Bonuspack was based on an older version of TCP/IP - Version 2.0 which had been developed for the older OS/2 version 2.x.  But it wasn't the full stack - it was a more crippled version - missing some stuff, and limited to only accessing the internet via dialup modem.  As a side note, Warp 3 at the time also had a flaky-buggy serial port driver which worked on some modems / ports, but not on others.  This led in part to the popularity of Ray Gwinn's SIO driver (which always seemed to work), and also added to some of the early complaints about OS/2 Warp being difficult to install and not always working properly with hardware, but that's a different story.

Fast forward a month or two from the initial release and IBM releases Warp 3 Connect, and then Warp Server (and eventually Warp Server Advanced).  Warp 3 Connect was Warp 3 with the LAN stuff added (MPTS, IBM Peer, TCP/IP).  IBM released it with the newer TCP/IP 3.0 (which contained everything in the Internet Access Kit, plus a bunch of other stuff) and MPTS to be able to communicate over network cards.  However (in its infinite wisdom of wanting to make things simpler maybe?) IBM continued to include in the box the same exact Bonuspack that was in the earlier (non-connect) version of Warp 3.    This meant that you could install the newer (and better) TCP/IP Version 3 (which came with the Connect stuff) or you could install the older "Internet Access Kit" from the Bonuspack.

As for the client desktop version of Warp, even though they released a few updated versions of Warp 3, they didn't actually remove the Internet Access Kit from the Bonuspack until the release of Warp 4.

*end of history lesson*

Anyways, you should be okay installing the 32 bit MPTS as outlined in the earlier message, it includes the base 32 bit tcp/ip stuff to at least get network connectivity.   I know there are versions of firefox which will run on Warp 3, although I can't recall what the latest one is that'll run.  For Firefox you will need the 32 bit TCP/IP stack.

Or you can install the 16 bit MPTS - with the 16 bit version you'll for sure be able to run the old Netcape Communicator 4.61, although I'm not sure if there are any websites which will still work with that.

-Fahrvenugen
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Dave Yeo on May 07, 2014, 09:37:55 am
I know there are versions of firefox which will run on Warp 3, although I can't recall what the latest one is that'll run.  For Firefox you will need the 32 bit TCP/IP stack.

Or you can install the 16 bit MPTS - with the 16 bit version you'll for sure be able to run the old Netcape Communicator 4.61, although I'm not sure if there are any websites which will still work with that.

-Fahrvenugen

Firefox etc were built against the 16bit stack until partway through 10.0.xESR. It may have been broken for my builds as my environment was questionable for pulling in the 16 bit stuff.
The problem is that libc broke on Warp 3 sometime back so libc06.dll will work and IIRC libc061.dll but all newer ones are broken on Warp V3 and Firefox hasn't been built with such an early libc for a long time. Maybe early 3.5 or likely older. Binaries should be on mozilla.org.
This is also a problem with a lot of other ported software, does libc work on V3?
BTW 4os2 will give tab completion, search Hobbes
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Andi B. on May 07, 2014, 11:33:54 am
Quote
Whoa, an auto-installer would be convenient indeed! ...
I would not suggest you to try out now os2mt. The picture on the linked site shows outdated packages and internet addresses which dose not exist anymore. Not sure if this utility works for the base components thought. Didn't try it by myself since a very long time...

Quote
...as Warp 3 appears to lack file name auto-complete via the TAB key, which I grew used to over the years.... *g*
You can try 4os2 - http://4os2.netlabs.org/en/site/index.xml. It still should work with Warp3. But I didn't test the latest releases as I do not have a W3 installation anymore. Anyone else tested it on W3?
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Mathias on May 07, 2014, 10:30:20 pm
Hello again ^^/

I also did a reinstall in a fresh VBox.
Installed...
1) Warp 3 on HPFS
2) configured SB16 (now working!)
2) "IBM Internet connection" from the Warp3 BonusPak CD
3) Fixpack 40DE for Warp3
4) SNAP drivers --> woah.. what a dream! ~

Then I did a shutdown, and created a VBOX snapshot.

Right after this, I read through the new articles in this thread ... and couldn't find a path \CID on either my Warp 3 Install CD nor the BonusPak CD. - But I found an MPTS on the Warp 4.52 CD1 in \CID\SERVER\MPTS, which I have installed on Warp 3..... that even works!! oo*
Now inetver says I've got:
Code: [Select]
[C:\]inetver
Version numbers of TCP/IP protocol drivers:
  SOCKET.SYS: 6.3000
  AFOS2.SYS: 6.3000
  AFINET.SYS: 6.3001

ping, arp, nslookup, etc, working still. Also DNS resolution does work.
Interestingly I've got ftp.exe now too, telnet, gopher (haha xD), and can load stuff over the network. *_*

Next thing to try is tab completion and Firefox, or even better Seamonkey, since that has a WYSIWYG editor included, and mail also. Question is though, if there is a Seamonkey for OS/2, which runs with Warp3.
A general question at this moment... is there such a thing as specific Warp4 software, or does all OS/2 software generally run on Warp 3 also?

Guys, you are the best indeed! - BIG thanks! ^__^
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Boris on May 08, 2014, 12:31:28 am
A general question at this moment... is there such a thing as specific Warp4 software, or does all OS/2 software generally run on Warp 3 also?

Generally OS/2 software runs on Warp 3, but the most modern applications have troubles with running even on ACP2 because they rely on newer third-party components never included in IBM distributions, but included in eCS. While these components may be installed on ACP2 with no trouble (tho u'll need to investigate what exactly does the application need...), you'll run into problems with Warp 3. For example, the mentioned kLIBC, whose latest versions do not run on Warp 3. Today developers (heh...) do not test the software on Warp 3, and although I think most of the problems may be fixed and an applications will be able to run on Warp 3, almost no one needs that, and it would be not rational to spend resources on that...

I think you will be able to run 2/3 of existing OS/2 software on Warp 3 with no problem. The 1/2 of the remaining 1/3 will require some efforts to run. And you won't be able to run the remaining part at all. For example, all applications built with Qt4 framework.

The biggest problem are the drivers and the kernel. You are limited to the old version of the kernel; you are not able to use the latest one with Warp 3.
The Warp 3's kernel lacks support of KEE, so you are not able to run the modern drivers.



Next thing to try is tab completion and Firefox, or even better Seamonkey, since that has a WYSIWYG editor included, and mail also. Question is though, if there is a Seamonkey for OS/2, which runs with Warp3.

You may try...
But even Firefox 10 (and the corresponding Seamonkey version) is a VERY heavy application. It will run insufferably slow (I'm talking about minutes just to start up) on a Pentium 333 with 256 MiB RAM.

I assume you're now talking about your virtual machine and not the hardware, because 486DX meets one hundred fraction of the minimal requirements.

Your virtual CPU may be very fast, so, especially if you set up symmetric multiprocessing support, it won't be the problem. The memory is the problem. Warp 3's kernel is unable to operate with more than 512 MiB of physical memory, and even more, due to a bug in it, it traps with that amount of memory, so you will need to limit the available memory to half of a gigabyte. You may adjust your virtual machine settings or use a third-party kernel bootloader (QSINIT) for that. The worst thing is that the problem is not with physical memory only; if this was the only problem, you could create a RAM drive on your host OS, mount it into the VM, format it and place the SWAPPER.DAT on it; but Warp 3 has no support of high virtual memory (>512 MiB), which was only introduced in WSeB. So you are stuck with half of a gigabyte anyway.

But 512 MiB is not enough to comforably use Firefox 10. It will be sufferable, tho I suggest you using Firefox 4. It is unable to handle most of the modern websites properly, but I think it is the most optimal solution. :)

Talking about yours 486DX system. You do still have an opportunity to surf some web sites using the Links web browser. It is able to run in text-only mode, or you may use an addon (Links calls them "drivers") to display web sites in graphical mode (with images) in a PM window. It will run reasonably fast even on such an old machine. Both available on Hobbes.

Cheers.
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Fahrvenugen on May 08, 2014, 02:27:50 am
Hi,

It is true that Warp 3 (stock) doesn't normally see memory over 512MB, although you can run it on a machine with more memory, it just won't see the extra memory.

Although, I do have 1 Warp 3 machine which I must have applied some type of hack to, it is seeing 768MB Ram (it has a 512MB and a 256MB memory sticks in it).  I can't recall what the hack I did to it was, I'll have to see if I can find it one of these days.

Of course if you want to go for a really retro browser, you can always install the last released version of WebEX (IBM's browser) at:

ftp://service.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/webexplorer/webxv11h/

It won't be much use on current websites, but interesting to see what the tools were like circa 1994

A lot of the older OS/2 apps do run on Warp 3.  The ones with difficulty are the more recent ports which use API's from Warp 4 (or eCS), or the KEE stuff in the newer kernel.

Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Mathias on May 08, 2014, 09:09:29 pm
^o^/ Ahoi!

Quote from: Boris
The Warp 3's kernel lacks support of KEE, so you are not able to run the modern drivers.

Ha! So that is the reason why the VirtualBox drivers cannot be loaded. I have seen this call to KEE when Warp 3 boots, and the drivers are included into config.sys.
Oho! Libc? Reminds me on Linux! So people did port libc to OS/2? Not bad! oo* - Maybe one step further to a free Warp one day? : )
Bad thing with the kernel issue though.. :x


Quote from: Boris
almost no one needs that, and it would be not rational to spend resources on that...

Tehehe.. you've got a point there. It's 20 years old, but still.. people use Warp 4 also, which is 14-15 years old now. - Almost nobody in the world knows what OS/2 is (and was).. so going with "rationality" there would be no new OS/2 software at all anymore. - Imho as long as there are enthustiasts around, who use all kinds of Warp, there's always somebody to make happy by relaeasing software dedicated to their dead operating system. *g*
For instance myself.. Warp 3 is an important OS of my childhood. Seeing this these days brings back memories. For me Warp 4 is.. hm.. yet another window manager. - Like the looks better in Warp 3 somehow.
I have not yet found a window manager for Warp 4 or Linux to look like Warp 3... ; )

Also.. enthustiasts keep their old computers for.. no rational reason. What are they going to use their computer with, if not with an operating system of that era. - Maintaining the hardware is as important as maintaining the software.
In the end, I suppose it's simply a lack of man power for the libc maintainers?
I'm in to help where I can, porting and testing newer libc releases to Warp 3. o/


Quote from: Boris
Firefox 10 (and the corresponding Seamonkey version) is a VERY heavy application. It will run insufferably slow (I'm talking about minutes just to start up) on a Pentium 333 with 256 MiB RAM.

Uff! Now that you mention it.. oh dear.. *g* my 486 has 24 million bytes of RAM only. - So no chance for FF or even SM.
But the Links browser is an excellent piece of software. Using this via SSH from work to surf at home. (Yes with this I do not surf at work.. technically.. xD) - Using this to browse for files and downloads. - It's got tabs and frames, source code display and the lot. - Great to hear, this has been ported!!


Quote from: Fahrvenugen
you can always install the last released version of WebEX (IBM's browser)

=) Going to give this a go also! - Always interesting how things were back then. - That is new for me, as we havn't had internet access back then. - Just modems and BBSes to chat and mail with. :^^ (That were times.. hrhr~)

Also checking hobbes for things like ssh and mc.. : )
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Boris on May 09, 2014, 06:36:14 pm
Quote from: Boris
almost no one needs that, and it would be not rational to spend resources on that...

Tehehe.. you've got a point there. It's 20 years old, but still.. people use Warp 4 also, which is 14-15 years old now. - Almost nobody in the world knows what OS/2 is (and was).. so going with "rationality" there would be no new OS/2 software at all anymore. - Imho as long as there are enthustiasts around, who use all kinds of Warp, there's always somebody to make happy by relaeasing software dedicated to their dead operating system. *g*
For instance myself.. Warp 3 is an important OS of my childhood. Seeing this these days brings back memories. For me Warp 4 is.. hm.. yet another window manager. - Like the looks better in Warp 3 somehow.
I have not yet found a window manager for Warp 4 or Linux to look like Warp 3... ; )

Also.. enthustiasts keep their old computers for.. no rational reason. What are they going to use their computer with, if not with an operating system of that era. - Maintaining the hardware is as important as maintaining the software.
In the end, I suppose it's simply a lack of man power for the libc maintainers?
I'm in to help where I can, porting and testing newer libc releases to Warp 3. o/

You're missing my point.
Why are you talking about Warp 3 then, and not about 2.x and 1.x? No one writes software for these, too.

My point is that making modern OS/2 applications run on Warp 3 decreases the amount of resources (money, people, time) that may be utilized to create or port OS/2 applications. We are in lack of modern OS/2 applications, hence I think doing this is not rational.

You can do what you want and what you think is rational of course, but the fraction ( amount-of-OS/2-software-able-to-run-on-Warp-3 / amount-of-OS/2-software ) is going to decrease everyday. When you install and use the not the latest version of an OS, you have to agree to some limitations like these. I'd say limitations^2, because we're talking about an OS that had fallen out of the mainstream more than fifteen years ago. And we're all in these limitations.

Also checking hobbes for things like ssh and mc.. : )
There is a Midnight Commander port, but I highly recommend you using Brian Havard's File Commander/2 (http://silk.apana.org.au/fc.html) instead.

The installation package of OpenSSH port made by nickk also includes by the way his Security/2 -- multiuser support subsystem for OS/2. It has got support of access control lists and an ability to change %HOME% environment variable on login, which you may use to assign a separate desktop to each user. This is used by OpenSSH to handle logins, so you can create a limited user and give someone a protected access to your workstation.
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Mathias on May 17, 2014, 05:40:10 pm
Boris, I got your point. All I was saying is that I am in love with Warp 3, and therefore want to see applications running under Warp 3. In my ignorance I did not care about Warp 1 & 2. :o Sorry for that.
Also I tried to tell you, that "love" is not a rational thing at all. You do love something/somebody because you do. You have your reasons.
Today, building an application for any OS/2 is not rational by itself, as there are more modern operating systems around. A rational developer uses his time and energy to build applications for the OS that >95% of people use world wide. So, why do some people care for OS/2 at all? - See? No rational reason...

Your position is to get all the possible developer ressources to work on modern applications on the latest Warp or ECS. - Sure, if you do not use an older OS, I can perfectly understand that.
My position is to get to a point, where it is completely irrelevant which Warp/ECS you use. Might be naive to think like this, but in theory everything should be achiveable by just developing and installing more DLLs. In the end each applications runs as good on Warp 2 as on ECS. - Cool in my opionion. Everybody has his favourite OS running and everybody can use all applications. - Complete freedom. :3

In the moment, people have to have the latest Warp or ECS in order to use up2date applications. That is not freedom, but dictatorship: Developers tell me what OS I need to use.

Couldn't developers build a framework, that runs on all Warp versions and ECS? I suppose your answer will be "time and efforts" ; ) but if things continue like this, the OS/2 community will lose more and more family members, as Warp 2.x users might not want to get ECS, and therefore come to a rational decision to switch over to linux or WINDOWS completely in the end. :/
Taking everybody along and support them with a "framework" that runs on each OS/2/ECS would do the trick most likely, to keep them all happy.


--> From your point of view, what would be standing in the way for such a "framework", assuming time and efforts were not a problem?
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Mathias on May 17, 2014, 11:40:03 pm
File Commander/2 and openssh working ~ :3
Great stuff! Thanks for the info!

I have one thing, that I somehow cannot get to work yet, which is GNU Coreutils 8.8. Besides that issue, the machine is fine now. : )
Coreutils 8.8 appears to want GCC 4.4.5 (gcc445.dll) to make the executables work. I have found some GCC versions, but the closest one only has gcc446.dll. Is there a way to make a symlink to make this gcc446.dll look like gcc445.dll? Or is this a rather bad idea, and I need the exact gcc445.dll?

I have searched the web and found stuff on hobbes and on [http://os2ports.smedley.id.au/index.php?page=gcc44 (http://os2ports.smedley.id.au/index.php?page=gcc44)]. Still, the right version is not among them. Does anybody know another source for ported GCC versions? oo*
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Boris on May 18, 2014, 02:22:08 am
Boris, I got your point. All I was saying is that I am in love with Warp 3, and therefore want to see applications running under Warp 3. In my ignorance I did not care about Warp 1 & 2. :o Sorry for that.
Also I tried to tell you, that "love" is not a rational thing at all. You do love something/somebody because you do. You have your reasons.
Today, building an application for any OS/2 is not rational by itself, as there are more modern operating systems around. A rational developer uses his time and energy to build applications for the OS that >95% of people use world wide. So, why do some people care for OS/2 at all? - See? No rational reason...

Your position is to get all the possible developer ressources to work on modern applications on the latest Warp or ECS. - Sure, if you do not use an older OS, I can perfectly understand that.
My position is to get to a point, where it is completely irrelevant which Warp/ECS you use. Might be naive to think like this, but in theory everything should be achiveable by just developing and installing more DLLs. In the end each applications runs as good on Warp 2 as on ECS. - Cool in my opionion. Everybody has his favourite OS running and everybody can use all applications. - Complete freedom. :3

In the moment, people have to have the latest Warp or ECS in order to use up2date applications. That is not freedom, but dictatorship: Developers tell me what OS I need to use.

I won't comment on this. Developers do what they want. If you disagree, you may become a developer and do what you want, e. g. write apps for Warp 3. That is the freedom.

Couldn't developers build a framework, that runs on all Warp versions and ECS?

You don't quite understand.

I suppose your answer will be "time and efforts" ; ) but if things continue like this, the OS/2 community will lose more and more family members, as Warp 2.x users might not want to get ECS, and therefore come to a rational decision to switch over to linux or WINDOWS completely in the end. :/
Taking everybody along and support them with a "framework" that runs on each OS/2/ECS would do the trick most likely, to keep them all happy.


--> From your point of view, what would be standing in the way for such a "framework", assuming time and efforts were not a problem?

You may start with backporting KEE and HIGHMEM support from Aurora kernel to Warp 3's. Somehow. Then compile and make libc work perfectly, as that's what modern OS/2 userland applications usually are written with. Then if you want XWorkplace to run, you'll probably need to address some WPS and PM issues, if any. Backporting modern IFS would also be a great idea, because Warp 3 lacks support of JFS.IFS. I also have no idea if NetDrive runs on it okay, probably not. Also please remember you are running old MMPM, MPTN, PM and WPS versions. Try running Warp 3 on a modern PC where ACP2 with modern drivers and system components runs okay, figure out what's wrong and fix those issues. No idea how the only somewhat actual video drivers we have today, SDD and PANOGRADD, will run on Warp 3. I think they will fail really early. NIC drivers problems may show up.

These are the most obvious limitations. There must be lots of more. So you've got your roadmap. Although trying to run modern applications on a Warp 3 system sounds like fun.

I'm looking forward at what you'll be able to do. Because the developers we have now are is not able to make the nowadays wireless NIC run properly, build a decent office suite (compile it, not run a Windows version through API translator), rewrite system init for it to boot up from UEFI, or make PMSHELL support alpha-channel. From few to no work has been done on the kernel or video drivers. No work has been done on PM, SOM, WPS, MMPM, MPTN, LS, Peer, FAT32, exFAT, etcetera. Things that Mensys is proud of, ACPI and NTFS, has been basically written by one person. He's now fired and the sources are closed, so he's unable to continue development in the spare time, so he's now writing for Android. Many other things were done by the community; okay, with sponsoring. Flash11 is a Windows binary executable that runs so bad that hangs the GUI hard.

The thing is, we're trying to make OS/2 usable for solving actual tasks of nowadays. These include browsing, watching films, downloading pirated movies, and chatting. And maybe something more... These are somewhat addressed somehow, although have got tons of issues. Audio or video chatting is impossible. Now the tough part. Creating content is generally impossible on OS/2. We won't talk about Win16 MS Office, IBM Works, LSS or StarOffice. So we've got Apache OpenOffice. And it is not even compiled. It runs with Odin. And it runs bad. So, you actually can do something with office documents while in OS/2, great, if you've managed to start it up. But you're totally stuck with video, photo or sound. No solutions. There are a few solutions for software development, but if we talk about modern ones, there's Qt4 SDK (the latest is 5) which lacks a debugger (!...). No general modern mainstream code editors or IDEs.

The thing is, you have a different goal; you want to have fun with Warp 3, which you're not gonna use as a primary OS... I suppose, never. There's nothing bad in this, but the situations differ slightly. ;D

I have one thing, that I somehow cannot get to work yet, which is GNU Coreutils 8.8. Besides that issue, the machine is fine now. : )
Coreutils 8.8 appears to want GCC 4.4.5 (gcc445.dll) to make the executables work. I have found some GCC versions, but the closest one only has gcc446.dll. Is there a way to make a symlink to make this gcc446.dll look like gcc445.dll? Or is this a rather bad idea, and I need the exact gcc445.dll?

Strange issue. Please try this:
http://rpm.netlabs.org/release/00/zip/coreutils-8_6-10_oc00.zip
This package runs perfectly on ACP2 and eCS 2.1.
And I don't have gcc445 shared runtime library installed in my systems.
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Mathias on May 18, 2014, 04:36:39 am
Quote from: Boris
The thing is, we're trying to make OS/2 usable for solving actual tasks of nowadays. You have a different goal; you want to have fun with Warp 3, which you're not gonna use as a primary OS... I suppose, never. There's nothing bad in this, but the situations differ slightly. ;D

Well, it used to be my primary OS in the 90ies, before Win95 came and completely deleted C:\OS2, while letting everything else on C:\.
I did the usual things with OS/2, a 13 year old does... getting known to what it can do if I click here and there, learn how to launch games, find out how to render my dad's PC usage restrictions useless, try out and learn the basics of QBasic, QuickBasic and PMREXX, also CoBOL.
Later I found out about Linux and C++, and also that I can write things, when I miss a tool, or the existing ones don't meet my requirements. I did this on Windows and on Linux also, until I made this hobby my job.
Of course I planned to write things that I miss for OS/2 Warp 3 also, if necessary. The thing I usually do. Miss something? Find out how and write it. Time and efforts never were an issue.

But your recent overview about the situation is.. quite disappointing. Do developers really only do what they want? Didn't they team up to achieve the higher goal?
Like for instance build some platform that is above all the different libs, kernels and dlls, which all new tools depend on. Instead of that, currently people are developing things for the numerous libs and dlls, that need to be adapted to the existing OSes over and over again.
Microsoft did something good with .NET. - A framework, that makes applications written for that framework, run on all Windows installations that are supported by .NET. - And these are quite a few. Would not that be a model for OS/2 also?

This can, of course, not make up for the lack of drivers for current hardware, or missing kernel modules. Absolutely right. But that is a problem, that most communities suffer..... industry support for "free" software is quite poor, as the industries' driver is money, not ideals.


So.. to return to the initial quote: Yes, I planned to have a look at Warp 3 again, together with my newly refurbished 486er, as they already were a good couple decades ago. No further goals planned.
I would have never thought, that people still actively use Warp 4.xx or ECS as their primary operating system. I can almost imagine how much "fun" it must be to look for a NIC driver or modern graphics card.
Had good fun already to get my non-connect Warp 3 into a usable status, thanks to you and the other good people in this thread! Installed numerous libs and dlls, fiddled here and there to make Z work, which requires Y, which requires X and so on.

But.. to make Warp 4.xx or ECS to run on recent hardware is a completely different level than this and developing some neat tools for this and that. - This requires a wide base of developers dedicated to their specialised field. How can this be done? And how did it work until now? Reading articles, I found out, rights on Warp are still with IBM and the owner of ECS have changed two or three times?
Not a good development at all, also as the source codes aren't open..

Might be indeed easier to go for something from-scratch.. based on free software that already exists. - Which brings me to the question... what is the motivation to keep using OS/2 as the primary operating system, if not "for fun" (to see how far it can get)? - Do you use software, that only runs on OS/2, which has not been ported to anything else, or.. why all this?



Quote from: Boris
No general modern mainstream code editors or IDEs.

Oh! True! I was looking for such a thing already. Hmm.. too bad to hear there are none.
So a text editor and gcc & emx is THE way atm?
Speaking of... the vanilla text editors on Warp3 appear to cut a line after 256th character, so I switched over to vi(le), which does the job. Can you recomment GUI text editors? (If possible even with syntax hilightning.. as the file viewer in File Commander/2 does)


Quote from: Boris
Many other things were done by the community; okay, with sponsoring.

I am completely fine with that sponsoring model, as long as it leads to quality software, that eases people's everyday software needs. Already thought about buying the File Commander/2, as this feels like a solid tool for everyday work! - Until it launched into a memory exception, and I found out by comparing, that an empty file is the culprit. Deleted it... and it kept launching again. An author cannot allow such bugs in paid software. Sorry, but this is not on release state yet. Even it is a port to OS/2, it needs to be tested before release. :-]
Until now this has not yet occured again.. but I am keen to see which surprise will there be tomorrow.. =)


Quote from: Boris
Strange issue. Please try this:
http://rpm.netlabs.org/release/00/zip/coreutils-8_6-10_oc00.zip
This package runs perfectly on ACP2 and eCS 2.1.
And I don't have gcc445 shared runtime library installed in my systems.

Oho! I'll give this a go shortly. - Thanks! :)
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Dave Yeo on May 18, 2014, 04:59:58 am
The main problem with Warp V3 is lack of high memory support so you're left with 512MBs per process and much of that is taken by DLLs. Try running Firefox in 300MBs of memory.
You might be able to use a Warp Server kernel to work around this issue as high memory support was first added to the server editions.
BTW, all the gcc dlls are available as warpin packages at ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/gcc/ (http://ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/gcc/) along with GCC 3.3.5 and kLIBC. You need 3.3.5 installed before you can install any newer GCC versions, don't know if it'll work on V3 as no-one tests. If not you're left with old EMX for GCC.
There are probably some decent GUI editors that depend on Java or QT, start at svn.netlabs.org/ (http://svn.netlabs.org/)
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Boris on May 18, 2014, 06:49:09 am
But your recent overview about the situation is.. quite disappointing. Do developers really only do what they want? Didn't they team up to achieve the higher goal?
Like for instance build some platform that is above all the different libs, kernels and dlls, which all new tools depend on. Instead of that, currently people are developing things for the numerous libs and dlls, that need to be adapted to the existing OSes over and over again.
Microsoft did something good with .NET. - A framework, that makes applications written for that framework, run on all Windows installations that are supported by .NET. - And these are quite a few. Would not that be a model for OS/2 also?
I can see no problems with "above all the different libs, kernels and dlls, which all new tools depend on".
You've stated you want to use a very outdated unsupported version of OS/2 -- here you got your troubles^2.
If you've chosen ACP2 or eCS, you would got just troubles.

But it doesn't seem that anyone is going to write another .NET (which costs more than 5M$) just to solve your libc trouble or any of the (troubles^2-troubles).

You're advising to do a thing that we're unable to do due to the lack of resources, to fix a problem that doesn't even exist, and that can be fixed the other way that costs less in a hundred of times. Do you see yourself talking very strange?

So.. to return to the initial quote: Yes, I planned to have a look at Warp 3 again, together with my newly refurbished 486er, as they already were a good couple decades ago. No further goals planned.
I would have never thought, that people still actively use Warp 4.xx or ECS as their primary operating system. I can almost imagine how much "fun" it must be to look for a NIC driver or modern graphics card.
Had good fun already to get my non-connect Warp 3 into a usable status, thanks to you and the other good people in this thread! Installed numerous libs and dlls, fiddled here and there to make Z work, which requires Y, which requires X and so on.

But.. to make Warp 4.xx or ECS to run on recent hardware is a completely different level than this and developing some neat tools for this and that.
Yes, and that's why we're all here. We use OS/2-eCS as a primary (used to do all or almost all tasks), one of the primaries (e. g. Windows on a laptop and OS/2 on a desktop; both used to do the same or differing a little bit tasks), or as a secondary OS (e. g. used to perform one/two tasks, or to develop/port software to OS/2 platform; usually installed in a VM). There still are some people that just installed an OS/2 in a VM and just need some help, but that's not who am I talking about, cuz they usually don't stay in the community.

This requires a wide base of developers dedicated to their specialised field. How can this be done? And how did it work until now? Reading articles, I found out, rights on Warp are still with IBM and the owner of ECS have changed two or three times?
Not a good development at all
Man, you're now talking offensive. It's like someone owes you something.

, also as the source codes aren't open..
That's not our fault, we are not related neither to Serenity/Mensys/XEU, nor to IBM (well, right now).
Talking like that is like stepping on a nerve. Do you do that on purpose?

Might be indeed easier to go for something from-scratch.. based on free software that already exists. - Which brings me to the question...
Again.
If you hadn't talked like that, I'd give you the link to osFree (http://www.osfree.org/), but I won't do that.

what is the motivation to keep using OS/2 as the primary operating system, if not "for fun" (to see how far it can get)? - Do you use software, that only runs on OS/2, which has not been ported to anything else, or.. why all this?
You must have been doing that on purpose now. I'm sure.




Quote from: Boris
No general modern mainstream code editors or IDEs.
Oh! True! I was looking for such a thing already. Hmm.. too bad to hear there are none.
So a text editor and gcc & emx is THE way atm?
Can you recomment GUI text editors? (If possible even with syntax hilightning.. as the file viewer in File Commander/2 does)
Take a look at jEdit, it runs on OS/2, but since some version they've accidentally broken something in the filesystem module, but some old version is known to work.
You can write C++ with Qt in Qt Creator.
You can also use an old good VisualAge C++. It lacks the modern features, but that's a typical IBM product -- incredibly powerful, but hard to understand.
For a simple text editor for programmers, take a look at hobbes in the appropriate section. There are something like FED, KON, or something like those...




I am completely fine with that sponsoring model, as long as it leads to quality software, that eases people's everyday software needs. Already thought about buying the File Commander/2, as this feels like a solid tool for everyday work! - Until it launched into a memory exception, and I found out by comparing, that an empty file is the culprit. Deleted it... and it kept launching again. An author cannot allow such bugs in paid software. Sorry, but this is not on release state yet. Even it is a port to OS/2, it needs to be tested before release. :-]

That is totally inappropriate.

You've just suddenly come out of nowhere, and now

What the heck? Who are you?

I'm sorry, but stfu & gtfo.
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Dave Yeo on May 18, 2014, 09:09:56 am

What the heck? Who are you?

I'm sorry, but stfu & gtfo.

Calm down. If Mathias wants to get Warp V3 working well, well let him. I think that any good patches that he comes up with should be accepted and he should be encouraged to get Warp V3 working.
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Boris on May 18, 2014, 10:56:48 am

What the heck? Who are you?

I'm sorry, but stfu & gtfo.

Calm down. If Mathias wants to get Warp V3 working well, well let him. I think that any good patches that he comes up with should be accepted and he should be encouraged to get Warp V3 working.
No problem, I'm quitting the discussion.
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 18, 2014, 03:22:25 pm
Hi Boris.

I appreciate the work you do to help people with OS/4 kernel and trying to bring more communication about that project to us, but please stop this kind of comments.

You don't need to disqualify people of what they think. Please keep the conversation in a good tone. There is no reason on getting upset, all of us at the OS/2 community had suffer in the past every kind of frustration, desperation and trolling. Now there is not need to turn into that, we are an small community and we need everyone pushing to the same side.

Let's try to be awesome (http://www.dontbeadickday.com/howtonotbeadick.jpg) instead of frustrated.

Regards
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Mathias on May 18, 2014, 04:10:19 pm
Yep, otherwise I could understand why people aren't staying in the community for long, if it is forbidden to ask questions out of curiosity.
I am a newbe when it comes to OS/2. I don't know much, so I do ask. If that hurts your feelings, I am sorry. Wasn't my intention. I can assure you, nothing was meant as an offense from my side m8.
Please accept my apology.

Mathias
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Martin Iturbide on May 18, 2014, 04:20:04 pm
Hi Mathias.

There is nothing to apology for.  You can ask the hard questions without problem.

For example, if someone asks me if OS/2 Warp/eComStation is better than Linux and Windows, I can not make a clear answer. Windows/Linux has modern UI, drivers, bigger communities, but OS/2 is the OS preference of my choice. It is not about a feature by feature war anymore, it is about what people like to use and their right/need to collaborate together for a common goal.

Am I going to twist somebody's arm forcing him/her to use OS/2-eCS?  Absolutely not :)




Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Mathias on May 18, 2014, 04:35:56 pm
sounds cool to me :)
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Mathias on May 18, 2014, 04:51:37 pm
You need 3.3.5 installed before you can install any newer GCC versions, don't know if it'll work on V3 as no-one tests.

Yup, working fine. :)
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Dave Yeo on May 18, 2014, 07:03:59 pm
You need 3.3.5 installed before you can install any newer GCC versions, don't know if it'll work on V3 as no-one tests.

Yup, working fine. :)

That's good to hear as I'm sure at one point it was broken.  Now you should be able to run most everything though you are going to run into memory shortages.
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Boris on May 18, 2014, 11:45:16 pm
Hi Boris.

I appreciate the work you do to help people with OS/4 kernel and trying to bring more communication about that project to us, but please stop this kind of comments.

You don't need to disqualify people of what they think. Please keep the conversation in a good tone. There is no reason on getting upset, all of us at the OS/2 community had suffer in the past every kind of frustration, desperation and trolling. Now there is not need to turn into that, we are an small community and we need everyone pushing to the same side.

Let's try to be awesome (http://www.dontbeadickday.com/howtonotbeadick.jpg) instead of frustrated.

Regards

Sure, I'm sorry.
Title: Re: driver trouble with Warp 3
Post by: Fahrvenugen on May 19, 2014, 05:22:32 am
Just to toss in $0.02, for me it all depends on what I want to run.  I do keep some copies of Warp 3 around, I also have Warp 4 and eCS.

If I'm looking to run the more up to date stuff that is available for OS/2 then no doubt I'll use my eCS desktop.

However for some stuff, I find that Warp 3 does quite well. 

As an example, I have a machine set up as a print / file / web / ftp / MySQL / time / plus a few other things server.  All of that stuff runs fine under Warp 3, the computer I have it running on runs fine on Warp 3, and since I  have  6 Warp 3 licenses kicking around I didn't really see a need to purchase an eCS license for that computer.

Another Warp 3 box I have running is mainly being used for its DOS support.  Its got a custom hardware card in it which came out around 15 or so years ago and only has DOS software to make it work (its actually at a radio station I do support for).  Originally the software was never written to be TCP/IP aware (although it will take commands via a serial port) I found that by using the DOS support in OS/2 and writing a few REXX scripts,  I can control the system over the internet.  While I'm sure I could make it work on Warp 4 or eCS, it runs just as well on Warp 3's dos support.  Note that I probably could have achieved the same result under Linux, although it likely would have taken a little more work and troubleshooting to get working.

I've also got an older Compaq laptop (a P2, about 15 years old) that I've used as a demo of what it was like using laptops / computers 15 years ago.  Its got Warp 3 and Win98 on a dual-boot (boot manager!) basis.

Even though it is old, Warp 3 can still have a place.  Although I agree that some of the memory limitations it has do limit what newer apps can be made to run on it.

And just for full disclosure, I also use Linux and Windows (XP and 7) on a regular basis.