OS2 World Community Forum

OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - General => Events => Topic started by: Eugene Gorbunoff on October 24, 2015, 01:53:21 am

Title: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: Eugene Gorbunoff on October 24, 2015, 01:53:21 am
As you know, Arca Noae signed the agreement with IBM corporation and goes distribute New OS/2 -- http://ecomstation.ru/commentnews.php?id=2443

Several questions to Arca Noae:
1) What is the market for Blue Lion?
What application will be the main application of this OS?
and what new application (or applications) wll be developed?
Else, what is the difference from eComStation?

2) How to become reseller of computers with OS/2 pre-installed. The OS can't be distributed on USB flash or DVD only. It should be pre-installed on computers. This is the main (real) channel of modern OS distribution.
Else, what is the reason to spend efforts to the development.

3) The system should include 30 .. 50 additional applications / extenders / utilities by default. Only those applications which are included to CD1 are distributed among all users. Standalone apps which are not included, are used by 0.001% of users. Question: Show the list of applications, utilities, extenders which will be included to CD1. Else, poor state of the developers of OS/2 applications will not change.




Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: Martin Iturbide on October 24, 2015, 05:48:47 am
Hi.

Just for people not following Eugene's conversation. Arca Noae announced at Warpstock that is going to work on a new OS/2 distribution called codename "Blue Lion" (it is not the final name of the product). The distro is not ready yet, it's timeframe is for the 3Q of 2016. (but it can change)

They announced that they have an agreement with IBM to distribute Warp 4.52 and SMP binaries. There is no much planning beside of what you can hear/see on the "Arca Noae News" Video (https://youtu.be/0P2_dkTi4cc?t=7h20m10s).

Regards
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: ivan on October 24, 2015, 11:20:55 am
3) The system should include 30 .. 50 additional applications / extenders / utilities by default

Why would one clog up the computer with that many bits of junk? 

What are really needed are such things as working printer drivers that allow printing over a network connected print servers and don't need the reading of the chicken entrails to get working, RAID drivers for software RAID setups, a way to control the 'dll-hell' that OS/2 appears to have fallen into at the moment and so on.
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: Martin Iturbide on October 24, 2015, 01:35:09 pm
Hi Ivan.

3) The system should include 30 .. 50 additional applications / extenders / utilities by default

Why would one clog up the computer with that many bits of junk? 

I think that they refer to all the software that is included to make Warp 4.5 more modern, like XWPS, Warpin, Firefox, Qt, OpenJDK, etc, etc. I don't think that it means to put all software as possible, but just something similar to eCS to make Warp 4.5 more current, otherwise it will ship with WebExplorer :)

Regards.
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: ivan on October 24, 2015, 04:35:18 pm
Hi Martin,

We already have all that in our standard install DVD that we use when replacing hardware so I never considered them as additional applications.
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: Sergey Posokhov on October 24, 2015, 05:02:32 pm
The system should contain no additional applications nor AppStore nor WarpIn, no shared libraries, no WPS extenders, no candy icons, no animated pointers, and the only one installation file format should be ZIP and ZIP and ZIP and only ZIP.
 :)
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: Sigurd Fastenrath on October 25, 2015, 12:59:41 pm
I would like to suggest the name (in case it is not protected by others, O did find some hotels using it, but.....):

Blue Marlin 

(not Merlin, but a Reminiscence to it  :)  )

Would make a good Logo/Pet as well  ;)

Lion seems to be occupied by Apple and sounds like emulating it.

Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: Jan-Erik Lärka on October 25, 2015, 02:22:40 pm
Hi Martin,

We already have all that in our standard install DVD that we use when replacing hardware so I never considered them as additional applications.

No one want to use a bare bone eCS, or any other OS for that matter, one want more and new drivers, but also software, that's perhaps more important to end/home users to keep up with the rest of the world. A dated web browser has to be replaced at once and should therefore not be included, just as similar software that change fairly often.

You may have a standard DVD with a lot of corporate software you can apply in a chunk, as the end user it's not available to me so the question raised by Eugene is very relevant. Several of the original OS/2 applications could need attention, both in design (color and graphics) but also function and capabilities. Some has been replaced by new versions and now feel better while others persist, but why not include some new standard software with the OS?

Fairly statical but useful to many would include things like:
A GUI (or Wizard/SmartGuide) front end to diskinfo.exe would be interesting.
Wouldn't mind a file recovery tool paired with an optional setting for JFS to always write .LONGNAME EA's or special inode filename info.
QT4 ODBC DataBase Manager + unixODBC backend
TCP/IP configuration tool
New Image/Icon Editor

Not every software is bug free to begin with, but with the proper attention and feedback, exchange of knowledge and relevant information by testers, end users and developers, the software evolve into something better.

______
I have created a large tree with software on my main machine that I go through and install from just to get what I want, but it has to be maintained as new software appear, one has to visit sites here and there and follow download links.

It seem that everyone want to tinker with the system their own way, so to not close the door but rather allow everyone to do that I would like to extend my suggestion in an earlier post in another thread. Lets have an updated online software catalogue that developers would announce their software in, just as they announce them here at os2world, paired with a front end for the end user.

That way the OS doesn't have to include outdated software but rather a convenient online software catalogue. The front end should of course be able to use local paths to already downloaded software.
_____
My wish is that the new distro would rather merge the Live DVD and the OS installer concepts
   The user/admin can either just use it to surf the web or monitor the network without leaving the computer and do some selected stuff ("LiveCD" usage)
   and/or
   start the OS installer to tweak things with a fairly populated desktop and get the feel for the system while he/she wait for the installation to finish (in the background).

Regards,
Jan-Erik
Software tester, database recovery, automated software tests, technical support resource
of MONITOR ERP System AB, a standardized Resource Planning System for the industry

Home user of eCS-OS/2 as main OS.
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: ivan on October 25, 2015, 10:49:20 pm
Hi Jan-Erik,

I do agree with you on most points but there is absolutely no reason why someone can't have most of those things on a DVD.

I have attached the addons-read.me from UPDCD of 2005 for general information and since it is rather quiet on this evenings shift I just made an UPDCD with all the latest addons on that list I could find, I even went as far as including the required DLLs in the tools section. 

Then I installed it in a VM and everything is there and working.  Yes, it could be better and yes there are a few tweaks that might be needed by some people.

UPDCD is not perfect and would benefit from someone going over the REXX scripts and adding new ones for those items that are not on the addons list (openjdk 6 is one such item as are the fonts and font install programs of Alex Taylor and QT4 with some of the QT4 applications).

Unfortunately my knowledge of REXX is almost non existent which makes it almost impossible for me to do anything about creating new scripts although I can mess with those that are there to make them do what I need but I seldom get it right first time  :(
 
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: Dave Yeo on October 26, 2015, 12:16:59 am
I notice that you have XFree86, does it work for you and what level of kernel are you using.
I've tried installing XFree86 in eCS 2.1+ and it seems to be missing some functionality in xf86sup.sys that is needed for the fonts and working pttys. I believe that xf86sup.sys needs updating to work correctly with the newest kernels.
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: ivan on October 26, 2015, 01:32:28 am
Hi Dave,

I cheat a bit with XFree86 and use the XFree86-4.5.0-runtime.wpi and then use what is available with the Gimp-2.2.8.wpi install and libs and HobLink as the server.  So even though xf86sup.sys is there in the xfree86\usr\x11r6\lib directory I don't think it gets used, it is not in config.sys.
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: Dave Yeo on October 26, 2015, 05:01:38 am
OK. My Hoblink is only licensed for use on OS/2 V4 and refuses to run on eCS which was why I was trying to get XFree86 to run. I did get it kind of running using the VNC server but it wasn't really good enough to use.
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: Greggory Shaw on October 26, 2015, 05:55:14 am
OK. My Hoblink is only licensed for use on OS/2 V4 and refuses to run on eCS which was why I was trying to get XFree86 to run. I did get it kind of running using the VNC server but it wasn't really good enough to use.

If you have eCs 1.2 there's a trick to run Hoblink on 2.0 not sure if it works on 2.2 ?

Does anyone know how to do it ? Well actually can someone send me the file needed I have a 1.2 license. I may or may not save it to my current setup for historical reasons and safe keeping
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: Dave Yeo on October 26, 2015, 06:24:42 am
I never owned eCS 1.x so can't use the ecsreg.ini trick.  It's a strange license as I can look in INI.INI and see my name and serial number and it runs fine on my Warp V4 partition. It was a freebie they gave out just before discontinuing it IIRC.
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: ivan on October 26, 2015, 02:20:16 pm
Hi Dave,

Isn't eCS based on OS/2  4.52 the same as CP2 for WSeB?  I ask because that is what syslevel.os2 says our WSeB is and Hob x11 runs here without problems and like you we got it in the days they were giving it away.  All we use it for is Gimp and a couple of MySQL DBs.
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: Alex Taylor on October 26, 2015, 04:33:26 pm
FWIW, I never had any trouble running my registered copy of HOBlink X11 on any version of eCS.  The regular version shouldn't have any version checks in it AFAIK.
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: David on October 26, 2015, 04:49:18 pm
This is wonderful news and I am so grateful to Arca Noae and all involved for making this effort.

I very much look forward to hearing more news abourt the project and wish all involved much success.

I am relieved to hear that there will continue to be development of OS/2 / eComstation as it is my main work platform.

Thank you Lewis and all those working with Arca Noae.  A very big thank you indeed!

   Dave
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: Greg Pringle on October 27, 2015, 01:53:49 pm
Good news indeed.

What I have not seen lately from is any news about raid arrays. Arca Noae had said in the past that new raid devices might be supported. I for one would like to see the LSI MegaRaid supported. They work well with SSD devices.
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: Martin Iturbide on October 29, 2015, 09:44:07 pm
Hi

I was just checking Lewis presentation again, on one the slides it says.

Quote
- We want to hear from you
- Send us comments and wishlists
- Use the Arcan Noae contact form or email
sales@arcanoae.com
- Want to see third-part drivers or software in Blue Lion? Get involved !

Do you guys see like a good idea to start a new thread for "Wishlist for Blue Lion" and try to organize some ideas to send them over to Arca? (I just started on this thread: OS/2 - eCS - Blue Lion - Wishlist 2015 (http://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php?topic=872.msg8324#msg8324))

Regards
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: Sergey Posokhov on October 30, 2015, 08:45:56 pm
Quote from: Martin Iturbide
Do you guys see like a good idea to start a new thread for "Wishlist for Blue Lion" and try to organize some ideas to send them over to Arca?

I would like to see an average color scheme. I will find proper titlebar background and add new window theme to Nice-OS/2 Enhancer.
I like the name "Blue Lion". There is a popular book, "Disobedient Child of Biosphere" (http://www.r-5.org/files/books/ethology/science/Victor_Dolnik-Disobedient_Child_of_Biosphere-RU.zip), written in Russian and not translated yet, that explains why and how exactly human sees wild cats (quite similar to popular books by Richard Dawkins).
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: Doug Bissett on November 01, 2015, 06:23:26 am
Good news indeed.

What I have not seen lately from is any news about raid arrays. Arca Noae had said in the past that new raid devices might be supported. I for one would like to see the LSI MegaRaid supported. They work well with SSD devices.

I have need of a PCI SATA adapter, so I got a Startech 4 port SATA RAID controller (there is an equivalent for PCIe). The first thing I did, was make sure that it would run a 1 TB disk in an old machine as a normal IDE disk. Yes, it does, but it took me about 2 days to fill it up.  ;D  I have a 1TB disk, but the docs say the hardware can support any size disk, although there is a 2 TB limit for disks in a raid array. Apparently, OS/2 also has a 2 TB limit.

Having seen this thread, I decided to try RAID, since the docs indicate that it is really done in the BIOS. I took an old 500 GB disk, and paired it with a new 1 TB disk. The RAID array is, of course, 500 GB (but it is only a test). I set it up as a RAID1 setup (I can't see any advantage to using any of the other options, although a raid 1+spare could be good), and it started to do the rebuild. Then, I booted eCS 2.2 b2, with fixes, and it "sees" the disk. Actually MiniLVM "sees" both disks and complains that the second disk has a corrupted partition table (the boot drive is still on an IDE disk). The 500 GB disk had an NTFS volume on it, so I used LVM to delete that, and put a new LVM bootable volume on it. I carefully ignored the second drive and saved the configuration. It appears to have done that, with no complaints, so I formatted it as JFS and I proceeded to copy data to the paired drive, which appears to work okay (the rebuild is still going on, in the background, apparently with no OS support, and for no good reason at this time, but that seems to be what it does). Another anomaly is that the SATA drives come before the IDE drives (according to MiniLVM). That doesn't seem to cause a problem.

There are windows, and Linux, "drivers". From what I can tell by reading the docs, all that does is give the user a way to see what is going on with the raid while the system is running, and it will e-mail somebody with information (which is configurable - I would assume that a disk failure would be the most important bit of information). It would seem that a user doesn't need that, but they should reboot occasionally to see what the raid has to say since there seems to be no other way to know if something goes bad, when the driver is not active.

If you are looking for a performance boost, forget it. This thing runs at IDE speeds. The PCIe version should run faster. I don't see any indication that it will run AHCI, which should not be a problem.
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: Doug Bissett on November 01, 2015, 07:52:00 pm
Quote
I decided to try RAID

The BIOS says it will start the rebuild after the boot is finished. 10 hours later, there was no indication that it did anything, so I used the BIOS to do the rebuild. That seems to be progressing normally, but it looks like the "driver" might be needed to kick it off while the system is running. More later...
Title: Re: New OS/2 distribution
Post by: Doug Bissett on November 02, 2015, 03:35:15 am
Quote
More later...
\

Well, the disk was mirrored by the BIOS routines, but eCS sees it as two drives So close, but no cigar...