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Messages - JTA

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1
Setup & Installation / Re: Extremely slow Warp 4.52 installation.
« on: September 05, 2025, 04:01:11 pm »
This is a really old system, and I believe you are trying to boot a really old OS (if it's 4.52 stock) ... both of these are most likely out of sync with what you installed on it back in the day (warp 3, 4?).

If you were able to get 3 or 4 (or something) on it back then, then perhaps check to see if that can be repeated today, and then look into the upgrade processes to finally get to 4.52 plus fixes. This gets you to a known starting point. Save that image (for reload), and test in other directions ...

I'd think you need a more modern boot CD, such as in the links provided ... this is the only way I can think of to get all the fixes into place that have occurred over the years, for the installer routines. Even then, it's a gamble, given the weird combinations of hardware & bios, not the least of which is IDE issues, master/slave, installer switches, etc.

Only other thing I can offer is to possibly try a HDD-based install (and get the CD drive off the bus), where you put all the installation files into a mount-point, and arrange to kick off the install from that directory with some boot diskettes. There are instructions that can be searched for on the 'net, if you feel like gathering all the modern pieces, creating an install dir, and giving it a shot. This would possibly bypass much IDE (CD Drive?) grief ... certainly another data point.

If you have a real love for the old hardware, and are willing to keep trying, you'll eventually hit on a winning combination. It will take time, but it's why we explore all the old stuff in the first place ...

If you just wanted to see OS/2 running, and explore it a bit, consider virtualization. I run OS/2 in a VM (ArcaOS, 4.52, etc. all the way down to 1.xx) ... it's much easier to try out combinations, at virtual/vm speeds ... no hardware issues, no browser issues (see the virtualization subfolder on this forum).

Hope this helps ...

2
Setup & Installation / Re: Extremely slow Warp 4.52 installation.
« on: September 04, 2025, 03:29:33 pm »
Second possibility is to redo your OS/2 boot cd (assuming you're booting from a stock cd) ... try looking at a site like:

  www.os2usr.org/w4bootcd.html

and then rebuild a new OS/2 4.52 boot cd using all their their suggestions, and the latest drivers for hardware.

The article is a point in time for an older v4 install, but hopefully you can sort thru what's needed for 4.52

Hope this helps ...

3
Setup & Installation / Re: Extremely slow Warp 4.52 installation.
« on: September 04, 2025, 03:13:14 pm »
Review this old post:

www.os2world.com/oldforum/index.php?topic=1402.0

I'd tend to agree with the old post's comments that you've got some IDE issues that win98 can get past, and OS/2 cannot. Don't know if you'll need two IDE controllers to separate hdd and cd, or if it's a jumper issue, or data cable issue. But, read the whole thing and see if their tips on IDE are of use ...

Hope this helps ...

4
Programming / Re: Powerbasic for OS/2
« on: July 30, 2025, 02:13:26 am »
You'll want to look around for various IBM, Microsoft, and 3rd-party "basic" compilers/interpreters/etc ... if you search this forum, you'll find links where folks talk about some of these, like:

https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,1446.0.html  (reply 23 looks interesting)

And then, various google searches for OS/2 dev tools and apps, such as:

https://www.os2site.com/sw/dev/basic/index.html

Note that many of these are for older versions of OS/2, so who knows how they'll run under ArcaOS or whatever OS/2 you've got running. Perhaps BASIC programmers who also use ArcaOS will chime in, and give their input on the best thing to run these days, on a "modern" ArcaOS.

Hope this helps ...

5
Programming / Re: Powerbasic for OS/2
« on: July 30, 2025, 12:07:53 am »
I usually start with Wikipedia ... many folks (humans) verify Wikipedia ... but, for the most part, you are on your own to verify the content of any AI tools (and you most likely might head to Wikipedia to start that process).

Wikipedia has TurboBasic/PowerBasic page(s). Nowhere in the history of TurboBasic/PowerBasic/Borland, as relayed in Wikipedia, was there an OS/2 version.

Also, nothing on archive.org ... a second place to investigate. If ever there was a version, it usually makes its way here.

Finally, the forum might be a place for further inquiry:
  forum.powerbasic.com/

Borland had a few OS/2 products, but I can't find that PowerBasic (or TurboBasic) was one of them.

Hope this helps ...

6
Virtualbox, and most other virtualization software packages, have a "shared folders" concept. This requires "guest additions" to be enabled on the os within the VM; as you are running ArcaOS, I believe the guest additions are already enabled.

You only need to go into Virtualbox, find and enable a shared folder for your ArcaOS VM, and it will then show up in ArcaOS.

Read more about this in the Virtualbox Administration Guide, available from the Virtualbox download website.

Hope this helps ...

7
Applications / Re: [Looking] Info about MS LAN Manager
« on: July 11, 2025, 06:43:51 pm »
To get at the history of things (such as OP's MS-NET or LanMan categories), I usually rummage through sources like:

- wikipedia:  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-Net
- old books (sometimes online)

These are loaded with references, resources, links, etc., and you will lose hours of your life rummaging ... sorry about that! For example, the above wikipedia link will launch you into more protocols, nos's, and details than you might have wanted, so I'll let you decide how far down the rabbit hole you want to go.

Many might think MS invented *all* of DOS, OS/2, NetBIOS/NetBEUI, MS-NET, SMB, Lan Manager, and so on ... as you rummage, you'll find the "originators or partners" of all of the above, where MS got a jump start, or partnered with someone else to get the ball rolling. For example:

  "BAF Protocol: The very first name for the protocol formerly known as SMB. The SMB protocol was originally developed by Dr. Barry A. Feigenbaum at IBM and, according to legend, was originally given his initials. It was later renamed SMB and, more recently, CIFS." (repeated in several sources I've found, so most likely "true" ***)

BIO: I've seen much, since the early '80's ... built my first 286 pc with dos, wordperfect, autocad in the '80's, then into unix workstations and pc's with pc-nfs (and "thick ethernet") in the mid-80's. At Sematech starting in '87/'88, ran networks of 100's (near 1000's) of PS/2's with dos, os/2, ms-net (fileservers), lan manager, and built all kinds of UNIX workstations (SUN, HP, IBM, and more). We "networked" (tied in) with the internet via the University of Texas at Austin in those days, until we got our own pipes to the budding "internet". Lots of fun (seriously) ...

Software: still going through hundreds, if not 1000's of diskettes, cd's, etc., converting to digitial (about 90 to 95% success rate). What others haven't already put on archive.org ...

Virtualization: allows me to fiddle again with all this old stuff ... while there's pc's, ps/2's, and unix in my storage containers, rebuilding it all in Virtualbox and similar is just so much easier these days, and allows many new possibilities ... such as AToF (run OS/2 problem-free, with 64-bit apps, modern browsers, etc.: see the virtualization sub-forum on OS2World!)

Enjoy the long and winding road ...

*** "As best I can tell after lots of rummaging ... YMMV ... trust but verify!

8
Programming / Re: Networking: socket() returns positive `non-socket`
« on: July 09, 2025, 04:40:44 pm »
" Shame to see you go, but quite understandable as the OS/2 base continues to shrink. "

This comment got me thinking ... I'm not sure it's "shrinking", so much as folks just don't know how to get OS/2 stuff done in modern times. Perhaps this is an issue with "getting the message out", to dev's, gamer's, end-user's, etc.

I think many, many folks get hold of OS/2, try it once and have some issue with connectivity or browsing, and bail. Aside from Martin's and a few others' prepackaged VM that has it working from the start, but which is not well advertised, there is nothing to help these folks out.

** Most likely, we only get one shot. **

I can't think of any vehicle more important than:
- Warpstock ... this org seems "glacial" to me ... it still exists, but moves very slowly, so it seems to not get the word out to those who need it. You would want to go here, but there's nothing "there". This thread itself cries out for a "dev model" or template (or three), that anyone can d/l and run, and do productive things with. I suggest pre-built vm's ...
- user groups ... these do seem to have fallen by the wayside, and I don't know what to do. I tried joining a cali one, but that just dead-ended. So, user groups need to be rekindled, somehow ...
- Team OS/2 ... I've harped on this, and I'll gladly be one of the cheerleaders, but, somehow, we've all got to get together and decide how to push this forward.

I've done several threads on the above, but, in a forum, it's hard to evangelize and get action ... something else is needed.

In the meantime, AToF works, and would work well for dev's, gamer's, end-user's (working to complete my "Live-USB" concept (BTW, I need ArcaOS to work towards a "demo" mechanism, cause I'm stuck using "warp 3" demo as a placeholder VM (demo licensing issues for a LiveUSB))), and many other use cases. OS/2 is still very relevant ... it needs to be in front of everyone's face, so they stop bleating that it is dead (apparently, we all enjoy beating a supposedly dead horse).

9
Programming / Re: Networking: socket() returns positive `non-socket`
« on: July 09, 2025, 03:31:36 pm »
" Nobody is using OS/2 any longer. And this is really sad. But I have to accept that. "

We don't have actual numbers because no company releases them in an easily digestable form, easily found by all. I'd contend that there are still quite a large number out there based upon:
- ArcaNoae's info page:  arcanoae.com/faqwd/os2-still-used-today/
  (ask AN to release real numbers, which they should have)
- OS2World's "hit count" on many pages, showing 10's of 1000's of views
- popularity of archive.org content, and many other sites hosting such content
- gaming, dev, ...

For myself, it is super-easy to use OS/2 (Warp 4.52, ArcaOS) in virtualization, so I actually use it quite frequently, not having any of the problems that most have, trying to run natively on modern (or old) hardware ... for details, look at the virtualization sub-forum on this site:

  os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,3501.0.html  (many AToF posts)

I only point this last part out, because, virtualization allows you to run a modern 64-bit os as a "service" for your dev machine or other functional use (the AToF scheme); the x64 service removes all OS/2 problems. On top of that, you can have multiple OS/2 vm's running (an Athena dev vm), each dedicated to your dev, testing or usage requirements. In particular, you can craft a specific DEV vm for os/2 (GCC, EMX, etc.) that is both easy to create (snapshots until it's perfect), or, you can have some of the dev experts create one for you (I respectfully suggest @Kyo, @Paul, many others), perhaps for money, to repay their time?

What has fallen by the wayside isn't OS/2 itself, it's the lost knowledge of how to tune it for modern times (in a vm). I routinely bring up a VM with os/2 2.11, or warp 3 or 4, or arcaos, and it is built as if the year was still 19xx (4.52 or earlier), or 2025 (AOS 5.x or later), and they work flawlessly, each running the software of it's time. Virtualization enables this ...

I'd suggest recreating your athena programming environment to reflect running OS/2 in the same way as when Athena did run (natively) in a reasonable fashion. Then, many can compare vm's to see if AOS can be improved to move Athena forward, or if it should remain available, but only on older OS/2 versions that continue to run perfectly fine in a VM.

Hope this helps ...

10
AN does an amazing job with ArcaOS (AOS), and for me, running it in a VM, it is next to flawless (replacing Warp 4.52 in much of my OS/2 use).

Modern apps are indeed the only major remaining problem (*along with* 32-bit OS and certain device driver issues), but modern apps are a very intractable problem, as these have multiplied in various 64-bit code bases and feature sets. If you want to do something, there's a modern application for it ... but only if you are on a modern (64-bit) OS.

AN has said the "modern app" (browser) problem is not theirs to solve ... their focus is AOS. Their (commercial) base must not need a browser? And, their individual user base AOS sales aren't grossly impacted with the lack of such modern apps? They do their best to support those developers who are working on app availability in many ways, plus they've added ANPM to bring over more apps when available from porting. That's impressive ...

For those not wanting to run AOS in a VM, but rather directly on hardware, much of the entire set of modern apps will remain out of reach, unless you utilize RDP/RDC (to another machine), or Winflector (from another machine). Or wait for porting of a (dwindling?) small subset of all modern apps.

AToF is my solution to the modern app problem on OS/2, and running the entire AToF scheme on a laptop like your T43 should be no problem (if you can wrap your head around the AToF scheme). AToF is a simple combination of modern tools from our existing computing toolbox (beefy laptop/desktop, HostOS, Virtualbox, Winflector). As a bonus, you'll have little to no remaining 64-bit, device driver, or modern app problems, while booting into and working entirely in your ArcaOS desktop.

It must be quite the experience to run OS/2 (directly) on T43 hardware or similar, and perhaps it harkens back to the good ol' days, with IBM "suits" looking over both shoulders as we used their stuff, but I'd have to agree that you need a modern browser and email to live entirely in OS/2 on one machine in today's world. I personally can't live with most computing problems, and having experienced them just once, I immediately look for any solution that gets me out of said problems, vs the trade-off of "living with the problem(s)." Programming folks program their way out of problems, however long that takes, but us (old?) sysadmins (not being programmers) integrate thru or otherwise work around problems ... trying to get to a solution "now".

AFAIK, only AToF gets us 99% of the way there on a single machine like your laptop, potentially solving ALL problems. I hope to have an updated AToF at one of the upcoming Warpstock events ... I last presented it at Warpstock 2023.

But, you can try it right now ... wipe your machine (after backing up your data), load a HostOS, Virtualbox, and Winflector. Then put AOS into a vm ... done ... no more intractable problems; a modern browser and email app running on the AOS desktop, within the Winflector client. And, let me know what I can do to get AToF to 99.9% ...

11
Winflector has server running on the AToF HostOS (as a service), and the native client running on some other OS where you want the windows apps to be displayed, in a native OS window frame. Don't know what the internal protocol is, but it works very well on AToF solutions, whereas RDP implementations caused me varying levels of grief.

Where there isn't a dedicated OS native client, Winflector also supports any browser with minimal capabilities (html 5, iirc), and our old OS/2 firefox fits this need. So, you can send any Window app, even 64-bit, over to the OS/2 vm.

Luckily, Winflector offers a free license, so it's pretty much available to all. I've asked them to build an OS/2 native 32-bit client, via their forums. AN could possibly help with this, and I've asked unofficially for them to push from their side, but ... no visible progress at either end.

12
... any and all "problems" you have with OS/2 (4.52) or ArcaOS, on any hardware you currently run these OS's on. It can be any hardware (device driver), software (apps), os (4.52 or ArcaOS), etc.

Examples (recently seen on the forums):
  - can't run a modern 64-bit browser inside of 32-bit OS/2 or ArcaOS, while OS is booted up standalone on modern hardware with tons of ram; a modern 64-bit browser is a must when trying to work in any OS.
  - compiler time (long-running compile jobs), trying to squeeze everything into a single OS/2 ram-limited environment

I want to ensure I've both correctly characterized the problems, and that any solution I come up with does indeed solve those problems.

We don't know everyone else's particular "pain points" ... please list yours, anything you can think of, if you can spare some time!

13
OS/2 *is* dead ... too many problems in too many technical areas to really do what you want, unless lots of trade-offs are made ... in the "old days", we typically abandoned these OS's, and the user base went into decline. The trend of use is generally downward ...

But, with recent technology, all dead OS's can be revived now, and uses found for it that suit the interested end-user's goals of putting it to work again. With a HostOS (Windows/Linux), virtualization (Virtualbox), and Winflector (pipe 64-bit apps directly into OS/2), all running on a single modern hardware platform (laptop/desktop, i7, 32gb ram, ssd's), there are no OS/2 problems of any kind. The trend of use can be reversed, and made upward again ...

AN does their part, because generally ArcaOS is much better than Warp 4.52 ... use it standalone if you must, but it slots into AToF and improves many things over 4.52 use. Rather than beat up on AN to solve all those remaining problems with OS/2 in general, just use AToF to bypass every single one of them.

AToF just one of your modern laptops or dekstops (see the virtualization folder for the process), and you will be enabled to put OS/2 back to work again. You can use OS/2 and have all the modern ram, browsers, device support you can eat. I demonstrated AToF at Warpstock 2023 ... it just works, and I cannot see any other short-term solution to putting OS/2 back to work again (not without all those trade-offs).

It is very hard to get folks to try new things ... AToF languishes because (I think) there isn't a comparable solution to the Linux LiveCD/USB process. But, I think I've found all the pieces to build that, such that one can boot up a USB key and have a live AToF environment to test. Don't know if it'll be ready for Warpstock 2025.

Long-term, I think I even see a path for OS/2 to get to 64-bits (because it's been enabled in the past), but as the Beatles say ... "it's a long and winding road".

Getting back to the OP issue ... just AToF a box, and you are good to go with OS/2 or ArcaOS, and modern browsers.

Hope this helps ...

14
General Discussion / Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« on: March 21, 2025, 05:33:53 pm »
All the solutions I listed are tools in the toolbox ... pull them out and use them, or leave them in the toolbox and run os/2 native on a platform. It's everyone's choice; we can't tell anyone what they can or can't do. Unfortunately, there are little to no os/2 tools in that toolbox, for many reasons that are very resistant to change.

If you want to solve existing problems, start pulling out all the other tools and start using them ...

- We can harness the power of other OS's to do work for us under os/2. The HostOS concept does all the heavy lifting in utilizing full resources of a laptop/desktop, but it doesn't have to be seen if you don't want it to ... boot straight into os/2's desktop vm. It feels native, yet you get at all the things that keep many from wanting to use os/2 natively. That is a powerful tool ...

- the dev uses of multiple vm's are compelling ... many of the resources of powerful desktop/laptops sit idle, but with one vm dev'ing, and another hosting the os/2 desktop, you are running "thrusters on full". There are tools to split the dev load among multiple compilers ... this might be applicable to os/2 compiling. Things I haven't even thought of, but might be possible ...

- there are flat out "no device driver" problem, no "browser" problems, no problems of any kind ... because you booted straight into the os/2 desktop vm, and it all just works.

What might be needed, to prove this concept to others, is the ability to produce a USB LiveCD stick of this entire AToF concept. Boot a machine, and show all of these things running. Linux "live cd" versions abound. One problem I'm working to overcome is the IBM/ArcaOS constraint of "IBM doesn't allow ..." demo licenses and such, and ArcaOS custom-stamps ownership into each os distro. This needs to be resolved, but I can't resolve it myself. So, I have some methods to chase down, and hopefully they'll bear fruit ... in the meantime, it's super easy to build the AToF concept, but perhaps a livecd would be even easier for many.

The point of all of this is that there are options now, and these don't require massive funding, waiting for years for the slightest little thing to change, and so on ... use these options if you want, or choose not to use them. It's all good as far as one person chooses. But, if more can see that there are viable options (more tools in the toolbox), why not try them?

Again, progress on all fronts ...

15
General Discussion / Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« on: March 21, 2025, 12:33:48 am »
I'm not sure how much it matters if the "idea" of running os/2 in vm's has been in existence since 2000 ... what comes together right now, in just the past few years, is lots of technology ... new/improved:
- hardware: faster cpu's with more cores, lots of ram, super-fast ssd's ... all on one inexpensive machine
- software: virtualization, winflector

If you use os/2, and want to do more with it than running native, more tools in the toolbox gives us options right now. We can do things that weren't available back then:
- virtualbox lets us run multiple vm's on one machine, introducing new ways to use os/2
- winflector lets us run any 64-bit app right now inside of os/2, vs waiting for that browser to come along, or waiting for that port to finish.
- existing os/2 developers can use these new tools in the toolbox to speed up os/2 development right now
- new os/2 developers aren't running constrained on one box, trying to shoehorn everything into 4gb ram on a 32gb machine ... they can expand immediately into more vm's doing more work for them. If we give them a highly tuned dev vm, they can run two or more, alongside their os/2 desktop vm, compiling in some and testing in others.

And, yes ... consumers (all the rest of us) can explore os/2 among many other os's, which shouldn't necessarily kill off os/2. It might expand the pool of folks who find, play with, and come to love os/2 anew:
- os/2 runs perfectly in a vm, yet runs with all kinds of problems natively ... run it in a vm, and you are instantly in business, alongside all your other efforts, on one machine
- explore all the old os/2 (or dos, or win) apps, and perhaps find new ways to bring them back into production ... if it runs in a vm, it's no longer tied to any new hardware/software that forces many os's or apps into retirement.

I respect folks that want to run native ... please do so, if that is your thing.

But adding more tools to the toolbox shouldn't be a bad thing, because who knows what the next generation of os/2 users will do with them. New users might become new developers.

os/2 might be dead (to me) if I hadn't played with it again in the past few years, discovered new tools to resolve all the current issues in this forum, and gotten it to the point where I have time now to explore all the new things I can now do with it, vs fighting it to resolve all its native problems.

progress should be happening on all fronts ...

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