OS2 World Community Forum

WebSite Information => Comments, Suggestions & Questions => Topic started by: Andreas Kohl on February 20, 2018, 06:58:59 pm

Title: Censorship complaints
Post by: Andreas Kohl on February 20, 2018, 06:58:59 pm
It seems my response was too technical that it became a victim of the new anti-liberal censorship in this forum. I know that reading and understanding text can be quite complicated. A simple video should show the advantages of a RPM server (the barrow): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHwkQhi6X-U

I hope it's simple enough for non-technical readers. xxxx censorship and pathetic cowardice!

Ian removed the F word.
Title: Re: Censorship complaints
Post by: Ian Manners on February 20, 2018, 07:04:22 pm
I like people that claim censorship on a forum, you are always free to create your own forum so that you can write whatever you wish but while you have access to a forum run by others, you have to play/abide by that forums rules.

No different to anyone's home you visit, you keep it friendly if you wish to be invited back, if you don't like it buy your own house then you can be yourself in your own home as is your right.
Title: Re: Censorship complaints
Post by: Andreas Kohl on February 22, 2018, 10:40:53 am
Subservience to bolshevist practices. So where can I find a list of Newspeak-terms that have to be used here?

It's totally degenerated to censor innocent words. Natural law has always been stronger than hostile ideologies.

It remembers me to school times in the Soviet-occupied part of Germany:
Quote
Der Gott, der Eisen wachsen ließ,
der wollte keine Knechte,
drum gab er Säbel, Schwert und Spieß
dem Mann in seine Rechte
Title: Re: Censorship complaints
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 22, 2018, 01:48:59 pm
Hi Andreas

This is a community of people interacting and that is what we moderate.

Some times your posts does not offer help, just a sarcastic sharp comment making the person feel bad about his idea or making him feel bad for requesting help. That scares off users, specially if there is a new one using the OS2World forum.  Try to reply posts without sarcasm first and I think it will help you a lot on your online interactions, or feel free not to reply everything on the forums. Also, please stop the paranoia of "Fake News", when someone is wrong (or post a wrong statement because he is confused) and he is asking for help don't accuse him of spreading "fake news".

Putting terms or comparisons like "Subservience to bolshevist practices", "hostile ideologies", "Soviet-occupied part of Germany" or that "German nice poetry" is not helping you, it only shows paranoia and desperation because OS2World is not a powerful political organization moving millions of dollars at year to suppress the small working guy under their will. I had been told you to cool off on Facebook and on the EDM/2 wiki before but you just don't care, according to you, "you are always right".

I think for me it is more important to remove hostility from this community (OS2World), you are free to join other communities that are not moderated.

Regards
Title: Re: Censorship complaints
Post by: Dave Yeo on February 23, 2018, 07:22:34 am
While politeness and respect are important, I think it would be kinda crappy to drive away Andreas. While he does need to learn that sometimes it is better to stay silent, he is knowledgeable and has interesting comments at times.
With our shrinking community, driving knowledgeable people away doesn't seem like the best strategy.
I also know that on the internet it is easy for things to be taken the wrong way. I've made comments that were tongue in cheek or such and when revisiting them, suddenly see how they can be taken as trolling. Much communication happens through body language, facial expressions and such. There's also the differences in languages with non-native speakers being at a disadvantage and differences in cultures.
Title: Re: Censorship complaints
Post by: David Graser on February 23, 2018, 09:24:02 am
I have to agree with Dave.  Andreas is very direct and to the point.  He does not sugar coat anything.  I was on the receiving end of one of his hard hitting analysis.  His input can be so hard hitting, one can almost assume he is being attacked for his ignorance or lack of knowledge.  It hurts and yes I can see where peoples feelings can be affected.  Although I did not agree with everything he said, I did appreciate Andreas showing me the errors I made in some of my assumptions.  However, the points I disagreed with him on were small and not worth further pursuit.
Title: Re: Censorship complaints
Post by: Lars on February 23, 2018, 09:25:59 am
Dave,

I dare to disagree. I am losing more and more interest in this forum because there is so much "white noise". And I am a native german speaker and often enough I don't understand one single word of what Andreas is trying to say (also when he answers on the german www.os2.org forum).
Especially if the real solution to the problem of the original OP is very easy to answer. Andreas tends to flood people with information they have not asked for.
Title: Re: Censorship complaints
Post by: Ian Manners on February 23, 2018, 04:07:05 pm
Hi Dave,

Quote
While politeness and respect are important, I think it would be kinda crappy to drive away Andreas. While he does need to learn that sometimes it is better to stay silent, he is knowledgeable and has interesting comments at times.

I would prefer Andreas and others to remain in our community because they have a lot of knowledge, and have been helpful in the past but there comes a point when something has to be said to ensure others are not driven away. Andreas simply needs to give some thought and civility to his answers before he replies.
Title: Re: Censorship complaints
Post by: Andreas Kohl on February 23, 2018, 06:43:07 pm
It would be quite hard to find an example where I disavow somebody. In my opinion an OS/2 world should be a broad spectrum and not only an esoteric niche. Most criticism seems to belong to linguistic nuances. English is for me the third foreign language, so my skills are third-class at the most. So should I better answer in German or other languages in future? "Civility" can have different meanings in English. To whom do I owe civility? "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Self-censoring isn't healthy for spirit and soul at all - perhaps in a gulag...

I hope that at least orthography is correct, paid no attention to the grammar.
Title: Re: Censorship complaints
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 23, 2018, 08:13:52 pm
Hi Andreas.

I don't think it is a language problem since I read the high levels of useless sarcasm in your replies and I don't think it is only language.

But it is hard to argue with your, you think you are always right and now you call us "esoteric niche" (an example of your disavow). I don't think that labeling people and abuse of sarcasm can refereed as a "broad spectrum" of discussion. This is not reddit (and even they moderate forums). I will found it rude to quote all your forum replies to point the issues in public.

"To whom do I owe civility?" OS2World is not your own house with your own rules. If you think you are being limited on your opinions you can always open your own blog with your own rules for you not to suffer self-censoring.

Just be cool and try not to reply with sarcasm and labeling people.

Regards
Title: Re: Censorship complaints
Post by: Andreas Kohl on February 24, 2018, 12:47:54 pm
Quote
I don't think that labeling people...
What a shabby rabulistic twist...

I didn't call or label anyone like that (totally illogical even for inattentive readers). Everybody is free to read uncomprehendingly. Without facts, individual phrases are taken out of context. Your argument holds no water.

I know it's hard to yield to reason.

From "El pescador y su mujer":
Quote
„Na, wat will se denn?“ säd de Butt. „Ach,“ säd he, „se will warden as de lewe Gott.“ „Ga man hen, se sitt all weder in’n Pißputt.“
Title: Re: Censorship complaints
Post by: Martin Iturbide on February 25, 2018, 02:11:05 am
Sorry Andreas, there is no way to make you understand.

Try to relax and moderate your replies on the forum. Otherwise we will remove your content and possible ban you.

Regards
Title: Re: Censorship complaints
Post by: Sergey Posokhov on February 25, 2018, 05:20:13 pm
I dislike the idea of bans and censorship.
I see no violations on the forum at all.
Title: Re: Censorship complaints
Post by: Dariusz Piatkowski on February 26, 2018, 01:28:49 am
Hmmm...what did I miss??? :o Or, if I had read it, and was not appalled, does that make me the next "marked man"? LOL

OK, seriously, I have no idea which thread caused this. But...Andreas can be to-the-point, and as someone who can do the same I account for that level of directness across various posts on our forum, and it certainly hold true for a number of individuals. It does not ruffle my feathers, and if anything does I state my point to let the person know.

I guess I am thinking that sure, it behooves us all to try to remain civil, but you can not demand the un-natural level of civility where the perhaps obvious "wrong" goes un-called out and we all politely pretend like it didn't happen. I would much rather see some angry words to trully understand a person's point of view, rather than assume things and be left at the mercy of my (perhaps?) flawed interpretation.

So given the nearly morbid level of OS/2 growth (let's face it, not like we have a wildfire going on here... ::)) should we not all just become a little more relaxed instead?
Title: Re: Censorship complaints
Post by: Doug Clark on February 26, 2018, 04:07:33 am
The discretion of a man makes him slow to anger. It is his glory to overlook an offense.

And we should all remember the differences in languages and cultures represented here can make statements come across harsher than perhaps intended.
Title: Re: Censorship complaints
Post by: Andi B. on February 26, 2018, 01:41:12 pm
And we should all remember the differences in languages and cultures represented here can make statements come across harsher than perhaps intended.
All true. But as Lars stated above this is not the case with ak120/Andreas Kohl. We the German native speakers know
On the other hand he has some very deep knowledge in some fields and sometimes (unfortunately not very often) gives very valuable information.
Title: Re: Censorship complaints
Post by: Sigurd Fastenrath on February 26, 2018, 02:18:50 pm
And we should all remember the differences in languages and cultures represented here can make statements come across harsher than perhaps intended.
All true. But as Lars stated above this is not the case with ak120/Andreas Kohl. We the German native speakers know
  • it's not a language problem (if you read his statements you know he is very very good in English compared to most of the other Germans/Austrians/Swiss here)
  • it's not a cultural problem (maybe some very slight damage given by the long ago punishment in Eastern Germany. But all other Ex-DDR guys I know handle that much better)
  • it's a personal problem with him which drives people crazy even in the German forum os2.org
  • he's very often offtopic and gives irrelevant inputs (constantly talks about ancient hard-/software no one else uses since ages nor the thread starter does)
  • constantly wants to demonstrate he, and only he, is right and knowledgeable
On the other hand he has some very deep knowledge in some fields and sometimes (unfortunately not very often) gives very valuable information.

I couldn't have said it any better. It is more or less a lack in human skills/interpersonal skills. I wish I could say something else/better, and I am really sad about it, but it is exactly as Andi writes. And what makes me even more sad: in 99% there is no reason for this at all.
Title: Re: Censorship complaints
Post by: André Heldoorn on February 26, 2018, 06:32:44 pm
Quote
write absolutely anything you want (excluding if you are from one of about 100 nations where you will go to jail)
The single fact that someone else can insult about 100 nations just confirms that the moderators are unqualified volunteers with a rather random nepotism policy. This Andreas isn't that bad, and typically he's accountable and replies. If you don't like it, then perhaps try to read what you don't like less often, or get used to sometimes having to read between the lines.
Title: Re: Censorship complaints
Post by: guzzi on February 26, 2018, 07:21:35 pm
There is someone on this forum who doesn't seem to know the meaning of the word nepotism.....
Title: Re: Censorship complaints
Post by: Ian Manners on February 26, 2018, 08:12:40 pm
Hi Everyone,

Continuing this thread is pointless as it will degenerate into pointless debate and replies.

Andreas's post that started this was removed for a reason, and instead of thinking about it and moving on, Andreas simply becomes argumentative and controlling.

The purpose of os2world.com is for people who use or are interested in OS/2 (and it's derivatives) to exchange information, seek help, post ideas, ask honest silly questions etc. All in a FRIENDLY and non threatening environment. If someone threatens the environment, then a moderators job is remove or change that threat.

This website or forum is not a democracy, nor is it subject to anarchy. It is not my domain, nor is it my website and as such there are lines that I can't cross.

While we all have different ways of doing things, a moderators job is to attempt to ensure that people do not unnecessarily feel threatened or that they feel unwelcome for asking a question. os2world is not a free for all, if it was it would cease to operate in a short time frame. I've been around long enough to see what happens to forums that are left open with no enforcement of even basic rules.

Moderators are people, and people are not perfect but when someone is asked more than once to give some thought to a reply, or simply not reply to something unless they have something positive to contribute to that reply, they cannot expect a moderator to keep ignoring both them and their posts. If someone wants to argue the point that they have the freedom to be rude to others on a forum that they do not own or run, they are as I stated in the second post of this thread, welcome to grab a domain and setup their own forums that they themselves control and have the freedom to run as they see fit.

I refer everyone to the second post of this thread as well as the "Rules for the Forum - Code of Conduct" at https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,1659.0.html (https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,1659.0.html)

André, trolling is not a good idea, and I might suggest you check a dictionary as well.