Author Topic: ArcaOS network compatibility with OS/2  (Read 970 times)

Eugene Gorbunoff

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ArcaOS network compatibility with OS/2
« on: March 08, 2018, 02:00:55 pm »

It's not clear, does ArcaOS work with other OS/2 computers in local network?

IBMPEERS is absent in ArcaOS. Samba client is installed instead.

We can't find information how ArcaOS computer can access disks of other OS/2 computer?
(other OS/2 computer: eComStation 2.2 with IBMPEERS)

How to install IBMPEERS?


Pete

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Re: ArcaOS network compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2018, 03:59:03 pm »
Hi Eugene

The IBM Peer software is included in ArcaOS but it looks like you elected to install samba instead.

My best advice when installing ArcaOS (or eCS for that matter) is to *never* go with the "Easy Install" option but always use the "Advanced Install" to ensure you know what gets installed and configured.


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Pete

roberto

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Re: ArcaOS network compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2018, 04:22:00 pm »
In ARCA500, I do not remember if you have a pick-up box in the installation or not. But in ARCA502 you sure have it.
In either case, you can after installing ARCA, from install \ remove Selective install for networking
SALUDOS

Eugene Gorbunoff

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Re: ArcaOS network compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2018, 04:27:55 pm »

WHY IBMPEERS is disabled by default?
How is it possible? Who made the decision?
What to expect in the next version of the OS?

Pete

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Re: ArcaOS network compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2018, 05:05:45 pm »
Hi Eugene

I think you need to ask Arca Noae those questions.


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Pete
 

Doug Bissett

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Re: ArcaOS network compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2018, 08:20:24 pm »
Quote
It's not clear, does ArcaOS work with other OS/2 computers in local network?

Absolutely. It also works with win 10, and *NIX.

Quote
IBMPEERS is absent in ArcaOS. Samba client is installed instead.

IBMPEERS is not missing, you simply did not select the option, when it was presented, or you chose the easy install, which doesn't always make the best choices, but usually works properly.

Quote
WHY IBMPEERS is disabled by default?

I don't speak for Arca Noare, but it is simply that SAMBA is far better. Try to copy a 2.5 GB file, or attach to a win 10 network, with IBMPEERS. It isn't going to work. You can still attach to an IBMPEERS network, using the SAMBA client, but you may need to tweak the security stuff (basically turn it off) to be able to do it. It is documented.

Quote
Who made the decision?

Those who understand what modern networking is all about.

Quote
What to expect in the next version of the OS?

An even more capable SAMBA, of course. I expect that IBMPEERS will still be there, for those who are stuck in the past..

Use IBMPEERS, if you wish, but I abandoned that a number of years ago. It just isn't capable of handling today's networking requirements. Don't get me wrong, SAMBA does have some problems, but the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages, and it is being developed, while IBMPEERS is not likely to get updated, although there was a fix for something, released not too long ago by Arca Noae. It should be available with an ArcaOS subscription. It is in ArcaOS 5.0.2. It is NOT available for other versions of OS/2 (the contract with IBM forbids it).

Eugene Gorbunoff

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Re: ArcaOS network compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2018, 08:34:16 pm »
* 80% of people select default options in the installer. So, we can make the conclusion that ArcaOS is installed with Samba client by default, without IBMPEERS.

* I understand that Samba is modern. There is only one question: can you connect to remote OS/2 disk using Samba client?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 08:43:14 pm by Eugene Gorbunoff »

Doug Bissett

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Re: ArcaOS network compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2018, 09:36:14 pm »
Quote
* 80% of people select default options in the installer. So, we can make the conclusion that ArcaOS is installed with Samba client by default, without IBMPEERS.

It is probably less that 40%, if the user has any idea of what they are doing. Yes, it is installed without IBMPEERS. That is something that you need to use the advanced install to select, but why would you want to?

Quote
* I understand that Samba is modern. There is only one question: can you connect to remote OS/2 disk using Samba client?

Yes. You should also install, and configure, the SAMBA server, so you can present shares to your network. ArcaMapper does share management for remote systems. The client will access IBMPEER networks too, but as I said, you may need to turn off some of the security features. You can run the SAMABA client along side of IBMPEERS, but you can run only one of IBMPEERS and SAMBA server, since they use the same TCP/IP ports. It *may* be possible to run NETBIOS (not NETBIOS over TCPIP) at the same time as SAMBA server, I haven't tried it, and that also has some serious problems, in addition to the file size limit. It won't go through any WiFi, that I have tried.

Roderick Klein

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Re: ArcaOS network compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2018, 09:46:24 pm »
I will put it more directly and more clear. The peer support in OS/2 is running on its last legs...
While its true it still works with Windows 10 and older versions with Windows. Its going to go away...

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4034314/smbv1-is-not-installed-windows-10-and-windows-server-version-1709

The other reason is that the SMB 1 protocol is simply old and insecure. Now on your local LAN at home you will most likely run very little risk. Especially if you run OS/2 the chance of SMB 1 attacks that execute malicious code is small.
Since it would most likely only work on WIndows.

You will be able to use it with eCS and older versions of OS/2 the IBM peer client. But if you are working with multiple OS'es between different computers: SMB 1 is going to fade out.  Its most likely easier to getting used to using Samba then that OS/2 users are late at the game (as usual).

So you can still install it but the connectivity problems from Windows to ArcaOS are only going to increase.
Also the amount of devices such NAS'es that used to support SMB 1 will see it being turned off faster and faster.
Hence the reason Samba gets installed by default.

You can BTW use selective install for networking in the install remove folder to install the PEER client.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 09:51:56 pm by Roderick Klein »

Neil Waldhauer

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Re: ArcaOS network compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2018, 10:17:40 pm »

Quote
IBMPEERS is absent in ArcaOS. Samba client is installed instead.

IBMPEERS is not missing, you simply did not select the option, when it was presented, or you chose the easy install, which doesn't always make the best choices, but usually works properly.

Quote
WHY IBMPEERS is disabled by default?

I don't speak for Arca Noare, but it is simply that SAMBA is far better. Try to copy a 2.5 GB file, or attach to a win 10 network, with IBMPEERS. It isn't going to work. You can still attach to an IBMPEERS network, using the SAMBA client, but you may need to tweak the security stuff (basically turn it off) to be able to do it. It is documented.

Quote
Who made the decision?

Those who understand what modern networking is all about.


The original poster asked how to network with eCS 2.2 running IBMPEERS. SAMBA cannot do this. If you try, you'll see a few files, but if the number of files you examine exceeds a couple of hundred, you'll find that SAMBA has failed. Bitwise says SAMBA does not support IBM File and Print Sharing.

OS/2 is not about modern networking. It's about keeping support for a legacy system. If it can also do modern networking, that's a bonus.

I don't think ArcaOS is any different than eCS in supporting the original OS/2 File and Print Client, or IBM Peer Networking.

I welcome SAMBA and will enjoy having the server upgraded to version 4 if that gets done. I think the version 4 client must be good for someone, but most who use multiple Operating Systems on a LAN are going to choose to sit on some other desktop, so the SAMBA Server component is the one that wants upgrading.

As it is, with Samba Server version 3 and Samba Client version 4, there is a little awkwardness in setting up security for a LAN with all ArcaOS computers. IBMPEERS is easier to use and better documented than SAMBA for this case. That said, I use SAMBA for my mixed ArcaOS and eCS LAN.
Expert consulting for ArcaOS, OS/2 and eComStation
http://www.blondeguy.com

Richard Dunkle

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Re: ArcaOS network compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2018, 03:52:16 pm »
I think there is a bit of confusion here. 
ArcaOS has the Arca Mapper program. 
That program can connect to network shared resources.  The shares can be on Lan Server, Peer Server, Win10, Win8, Win7, etc.  The shares need to use tcpip (sometimes called netbios over tcp).   The older operating systems such as Lan Server, Peer, WFWG, Win98, Win NT, Win2000,  use a less secure connection protocol but you can connect to them all with ArcaOS "out of the box."

And I forgot to mention you can even connect to Apple Mac OS shares,  High Sierra, etc.

ArcaOS does not install the Peer components at install unless you select one of the protocols for netbios. But...  do you really need Peer?  A simple selection of tcp only in the adapters is all you need for most shares using the the ArcaMapper to connect.

There is a file that controls the protocol.  It is:  \mptn\etc\samba\smb.conf

With certain parameters you can allow various types of connections.
The file is used by the Samba server as well as the Arca Mapper.
Here is what you need to connect to a Lan Server or Peer share:
---8<--- snip --- 8<---
# samba client & server file
# smb.conf
#
; client params
; these two for LAN Server /peer
client lanman auth = yes
client NTLMv2 auth = no

; enable this param for Win10 shares
;client NTLMv2 auth = yes
---8<--- snip --- 8<---

You can also use the Netdrive program to connect to the shared resources.   It is a fantastic drop in replacement for ArcaMapper.   I actually prefer the Netdrive program over the ArcaMapper.  The Netdrive can connect to ftp, scp, local loopback,  in addition to what the ArcaMapper does.  The Netdrive program is not free though.

If you want your ArcaOS to act as a server, you can use the Samba server or install the Peer Server.  The Samba server is a more modern way to go, but you don't have the slick Lan Server GUI, and you will be serving files in a less secure protocol.

Andreas Kohl

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Re: ArcaOS network compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2018, 03:54:01 pm »
It's not clear, does ArcaOS work with other OS/2 computers in local network?
Partially, but without any SSI capabilities.

Quote
IBMPEERS is absent in ArcaOS. Samba client is installed instead.
IBM Peer for OS/2 was a layered product inside Warp Connect. It was already replaced in Warp 4 with the File and Print Client. Samba is a server application not a client.

Quote
We can't find information how ArcaOS computer can access disks of other OS/2 computer?
(other OS/2 computer: eComStation 2.2 with IBMPEERS)
It depends how the other OS/2 node provides the access methods.

For example Samba cannot share disks at all, it can only share directory trees and printer queues.

Quote
How to install IBMPEERS?
Others already mentioned how to install the File and Print Client.

Doug Clark

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Re: ArcaOS network compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2018, 11:50:41 pm »
I would like to make a couple of corrections, observations - you all can jump in and correct me if I get it wrong.

SAMBA and IBM File and Print client, and server can coexist on the same machine. I have a SAMBA server running on a eComStation 2.2 beta machine with the networking stuff from WSeB also loaded and running. However I do not have Netbios over TCPIP installed. The SAMBA handles connections from MAC and Windows 7, Netbios handles all the OS/2 type machines.

I am laboring under the assumption that Netbios is more secure than TCP/IP or Netbios over TCP/IP  because Netbios cannot be routed. However since I am also running SAMBA that advantage (if it really was an advantage) doesn't exist.

You can map a remote OS2 drive via either Netbios (IBM file and print), or SAMBA, or both - even at the same time, although you will obviously have to use a different drive letter for each mapping. For example I have mapped \\server1\ddrive as q: using IBM file and Print (Netbios) and \\server1\ddrive as  W: using SAMBA at the same time.  (I am using a different domain name for IBM File and Print than the domain name for SAMBA - there may be another/better way but that how I have it set up.)

My experience is that SAMBA transfers large files faster than IBM File Print (Netbios). But smaller transfers seem to be faster with Netbios.

I have connected and transferred files fine over WiFi using Netbios with OS/2 machines.  I also have an I/O Gear Ethernet to WiFi adapter that will not connect or tranfer with Netbios via WiFi but will with SAMBA.

Configuring the WSeB networking/server components and users is MUCH easier than setting up a SAMBA server. But I believe you can make that statement about almost all Linux based software; everything and anything non-Linux is easier to setup and use than software from the Linux world.

Doug Bissett

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Re: ArcaOS network compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2018, 07:38:47 am »
Quote
SAMBA and IBM File and Print client, and server can coexist on the same machine.

True, up to a point. As you note, you can use NETBIOS, but not NETBIOS over TCPIP.

Quote
I am laboring under the assumption that Netbios is more secure than TCP/IP or Netbios over TCP/IP  because Netbios cannot be routed.

Again, true, up to a point. One big problem with NETBIOS, is that it cannot be routed, so you are are severely restricted in what you can do with it.

Quote
I have connected and transferred files fine over WiFi using Netbios with OS/2 machines.  I also have an I/O Gear Ethernet to WiFi adapter that will not connect or tranfer with Netbios via WiFi but will with SAMBA.

Some older WiFi adapters will do NETBIOS, but very few new ones will. Even wired routers won't pass the packets. I suppose that does make it a bit more secure, but at what cost? Then, of course, there is the >2GB file size problem.

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Configuring the WSeB networking/server components and users is MUCH easier than setting up a SAMBA server.

That is not really true. What is true, is that there is a learning curve that you must go through. Confusing things, by using NETBIOS, really isn't productive. It has way too many limitations, and, as you noted, you still need SAMBA, if you want to use modern hardware, and networking services.

FWIW, I use SAMBA, client, and server, the same way that I used NETBIOS (with or without over TCPIP), many years ago (PEER to PEER). The server is configured with the shares, and the client accesses shares. In fact, I find it easier to use than the old NETBIOS. Simple Samba Configuration Center (SSCC) makes it pretty easy to set up the server part. The client just looks to see what is available, and lets you attach to any available shares (assuming that you know the passwords etc.). You do not need (and usually don't want) a dedicated server.

Andreas Kohl

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Re: ArcaOS network compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2018, 11:41:04 am »
I would like to make a couple of corrections, observations - you all can jump in and correct me if I get it wrong.

SAMBA and IBM File and Print client, and server can coexist on the same machine. I have a SAMBA server running on a eComStation 2.2 beta machine with the networking stuff from WSeB also loaded and running. However I do not have Netbios over TCPIP installed. The SAMBA handles connections from MAC and Windows 7, Netbios handles all the OS/2 type machines.
Samba can also coexist with conventional LAN products on the same adapter. It's only a configuration issue by avoiding name space conflicts and simply using a few settings in smb.conf:

disable netbios = yes
smb ports = 445

For a server it would be a better idea to use different bindings to more physical NICs. This way also RFC NETBIOS via port 139 can be served by Samba for the particular interface. I would recommend at least 3 to 4 physical interfaces per server machine, plus one dedicated for maintenance tasks.

Quote
I am laboring under the assumption that Netbios is more secure than TCP/IP or Netbios over TCP/IP  because Netbios cannot be routed. However since I am also running SAMBA that advantage (if it really was an advantage) doesn't exist.
It depends on the view. It's long time ago when Samba could work over NETBIOS - it was never integrated with the official releases.

Quote
You can map a remote OS2 drive via either Netbios (IBM file and print), or SAMBA, or both - even at the same time, although you will obviously have to use a different drive letter for each mapping. For example I have mapped \\server1\ddrive as q: using IBM file and Print (Netbios) and \\server1\ddrive as  W: using SAMBA at the same time.  (I am using a different domain name for IBM File and Print than the domain name for SAMBA - there may be another/better way but that how I have it set up.)
You're speaking here about remote directories (not remote drives). Samba cannot share remote drives. You can simply use a different Netbios name for the Samba server and keep both under the same domain.

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My experience is that SAMBA transfers large files faster than IBM File Print (Netbios). But smaller transfers seem to be faster with Netbios.
It largely depends on network application's usage. Samba is optimised for simple file sharing and cannot do much more.

Quote
I have connected and transferred files fine over WiFi using Netbios with OS/2 machines.  I also have an I/O Gear Ethernet to WiFi adapter that will not connect or tranfer with Netbios via WiFi but will with SAMBA.
802.3 and 802.11 use the same frame format - so it's also possible use Netbios for connections from wireless clients to wired servers. Such devices have to be configured for bridge or AP mode. Of course it works in real-world.

Quote
Configuring the WSeB networking/server components and users is MUCH easier than setting up a SAMBA server. But I believe you can make that statement about almost all Linux based software; everything and anything non-Linux is easier to setup and use than software from the Linux world.
Samba is not Linux-based. The development started on SunOS, so it was easy to port for Linux, AIX and ULTRIX. Web based configuration via SWAT or Webmin should be usable enough. Warp Server offers a different feature set so it's not directly comparable.

I don't know why a server software (Samba) is promoted here nowadays for which the most feature complete OS/2 client software (MS OS/2 LAN Manager Client 2.2) is totally outdated.