Author Topic: Panorama v Snap Video  (Read 974 times)

Dave Yeo

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Re: Panorama v Snap Video
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2018, 07:36:02 am »
One thing that does scroll well is SeaMonkey (and I presume Firefox) whereas real PM apps, I can spin the mouse wheel and sit back and watch the scrolling. I guess due to using DIVE and faking being a real OS/2 (or any platform actually) app.

Martin Vieregg

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Re: Panorama v Snap Video
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2018, 08:47:40 am »
Quote
Panorama isn't really ready for prime time and needs much more work to allow easy adjustment of resolutions

ArcaOS started with the correct resolution the first time. I did not need to change anything.

Quote
dive marks

With Sysbench https://www.ecsoft2.org/sysbench, the dive values are 3 times faster than Dariusz values, but a lot of other values are lower. (AM4 board with Ryzen 2200 G APU processor.)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 10:01:02 am by Martin Vieregg »

Valery Sedletski

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Re: Panorama v Snap Video
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2018, 07:33:51 pm »
2Dave Yeo: This is because of WC not being set with SNAP and unsupported card. But you can set it with pmddk.sys on OS/4 kernel, or with "vmtrr" command in QSINIT. (The 1st one being more correct, because it uses PAT, instead of MTRR, to set WC)

Andi B.

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Re: Panorama v Snap Video
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2018, 09:33:58 pm »
...By looking at the ArcaOS DVD I see there is a modified (updated??) Snap driver.  Will that work with large monitors and Radeon video cards - I am considering getting a 30" 2560x1600 monitor if it will work at that resolution with ArcaOS or OS/2.
...
No.

SNAP supported graphic cards do have only DVI and RGB. You don't want to use analog/RGB (VGA) with a modern display anyway so you're limited to DVI. Which itself is limited to 1920x1200. You would need a graphic card with Display Port for higher resolutions. But these did not exist when SNAP was actively developed.

HDMI is a consumer interface with lot of different standards and problems. Not really intended and suitable for computer monitor usage. But as a lot of computer users liked to play videos this crappy interface found his way even into modern computers. You would need HDMI v1.3 at least to get 1920x1200 (max. 2560 × 1440) and HDMI >= v2.0 for you desired resolution. Given HDMI v2.0 was introduces something about 2013 this was about 7 years after active development of SNAP has ended. I wouldn't think any graphic card supported by SNAP will give you more than 1920x1200 for a single monitor. Some support two monitors on two interfaces which effectively gives you 3840x1200 as with my X300.

I don't know if there exit a graphic card/motherboard with DP AND proper BIOS which support for more than 1920x1200. If yes this may work with Panorama some day. But I doubt.


Martin Vieregg

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Re: Panorama v Snap Video
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2018, 10:20:46 am »
Quote
I don't know if there exit a graphic card/motherboard with DP AND proper BIOS which support for more than 1920x1200. If yes this may work with Panorama some day. But I doubt.

Is anyone out there running Panorama with 1440x2560 pixels? DVI or HDMI?

It seems that there are two types of DVI cables, one limited to 1920x1200, and the better ones (with additional wires) 2560x1600.

If HDMI is not the first choice, what is the successor of HDMI? DisplayPort ?

Quote
For practical purposes, this allows a maximum 16:10 screen resolution of 1920 × 1200 at 60 Hz.
To support higher-resolution display devices, the DVI specification contains a provision for dual link. Dual-link DVI doubles the number of TMDS pairs, effectively doubling the video bandwidth. As a result, higher resolutions up to 2560 × 1600 are supported at 60 Hz.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface)

Andi B.

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Re: Panorama v Snap Video
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2018, 11:49:49 am »
Quote
It seems that there are two types of DVI cables, one limited to 1920x1200, and the better ones (with additional wires) 2560x1600.
Not quite true. One DVI is limited to 1920x1200. Even that needs reduced blanking intervals but that's not the problem with TFTs.

You would need a second DVI interface which works together with the first one in dual link mode. We do not have any supported graphic card which can handle such thing. And TTBOMK no BIOS on this planet supports this. So no chance either with Panorama nor with current SNAP.

Edit - marked wrong statements. Even the rest does not make much sense anymore. See below.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 09:12:49 am by Andi B. »

Dariusz Piatkowski

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Re: Panorama v Snap Video
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2018, 03:36:04 pm »
Hi Martin,

...Is anyone out there running Panorama with 1440x2560 pixels? DVI or HDMI?
...(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface)

The link you provided does have the answer, specifically look at this section:

Code: [Select]
Example display modes (single link):

    SXGA (1,280 × 1,024) @ 85 Hz with GTF blanking (159 MHz)
    HDTV (1,920 × 1,080) @ 60 Hz with CVT-RB blanking (139 MHz)
    UXGA (1,600 × 1,200) @ 60 Hz with GTF blanking (161 MHz)
    WUXGA (1,920 × 1,200) @ 60 Hz with CVT-RB blanking (154 MHz)
    WQXGA (2560 × 1600) @ 30 Hz with CVT-RB blanking (132 MHz)

Example display modes (dual link):

    QXGA (2,048 × 1,536) @ 72 Hz with CVT blanking (2 × 163 MHz)
    HDTV (1,920 × 1,080) @ 120 Hz with CVT-RB blanking (2 × 143 MHz)
    WUXGA (1,920 × 1,200) @ 120 Hz with CVT-RB blanking (2 × 154 MHz)
    WQXGA (2,560 × 1,600) @ 60 Hz with CVT-RB blanking (2 × 135 MHz)
    WQUXGA (3,840 × 2,400) @ 30 Hz with CVT-RB blanking (2 × 146 MHz)

So in theory, with a dual-link DVI connector you should be able to go as far as WQUXGA. My Samsung 32" S32D850T does WQHD (2560 x 1440) on a dual-link DVI quite easily, that is on Win XP machine though, point being though, the hardware does permit this.

I actually had not tried hooking the darn thing up on my OS/2 box because my ATI X850 card will max out at 1920x1440 using one of it's two DVI-I connectors. So in effect, the S32 panel would never be driven at it's native resolution.

Peter kruithof

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Re: Panorama v Snap Video
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2018, 04:01:20 pm »
I am running a ATI Radion HD7800 at 2560  x 1600  16M colors  connected through dual link DVI
And before that i had another ATI - cannot remember the exact model - something wth "queen" in it also at 2560/1600 with displayport or DVI.
Good performance with panorama


Hope this info is usefull for someone

Peter

Olafur Gunnlaugsson

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Re: Panorama v Snap Video
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2018, 04:33:11 pm »
You would need a second DVI interface which works together with the first one in dual link mode. We do not have any supported graphic card which can handle such thing. And TTBOMK no BIOS on this planet supports this. So no chance either with Panorama nor with current SNAP.

This is a misunderstanding, dual-links are cables with more pins, not two separate cables or interfaces, there are two emitters on the video card that are folded into one connector while a single link connector cable only has one emitter, there are lots of video interfaces out there that carry resolutions higher than 1920 x 1200 over a single dual-link DVI connector.

Just be aware that the video card may only have two emitters in total (although most AMD cards with dual-link have at the least 3), that will mean that if you use dual link the second DVI connector on your video card will stop functioning

https://seriousseverity.wordpress.com/2013/10/10/monitor-connections-explained/

EDIT: P.S. There is no need for driver changes to support a Dual-Link connection, allocation of emitters happens automatically in hardware.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 04:38:33 pm by Olafur Gunnlaugsson »

Martin Vieregg

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Re: Panorama v Snap Video
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2018, 11:08:13 pm »
In the german Wikipedia (not in the english), I found the following:

Quote
Im Computerbereich hat ab etwa 2016 der DisplayPort den VGA- sowie alle Varianten der DVI-Anschlüsse abgelöst und ermöglicht dank deutlich gesteigerter Bandbreite höhere Auflösungen (4K, 5K) mit einer größeren Farbtiefe in kompakterer Form.

Translation: For computer purpose, since 2016 the DisplayPort replaces all VGA and DVI variants and has a much extended bandwith which enables higher resolutions (4K, 5K) with higher color depths in more compact form.

That means, HDMI is the entertainment standard, DisplayPort is the new standard for computer graphic cards and screens.

Is it correct that the way of the connection does not matter for the graphics driver software, because of the chain:
OS Software -> OS graphics software -> video card/chip -> cable -> monitor ?

If new hardware supports both (computer and monitor) DisplayPort, I assume this should work with ArcaOS.

...But even my brandnew AM4 mainboard has no DisplayPort... It seems that only midclass graphics cards do have it, and only a few motherboards. But nearly all monitors do have it. 70% of all new monitors do have DisplayPort, but only few mainboards/graphics cards. It seems that HDMI temporary fills the gap.

Andi B.

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Re: Panorama v Snap Video
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2018, 09:02:13 am »
I am running a ATI Radion HD7800 at 2560  x 1600  16M colors  connected through dual link DVI
And before that i had another ATI - cannot remember the exact model - something wth "queen" in it also at 2560/1600 with displayport or DVI.
Good performance with panorama


Hope this info is usefull for someone

Peter
Quote
This is a misunderstanding, dual-links are cables with more pins, not two separate cables or interfaces, ...

Thank you Peter and Olafur. I stand corrected. It's the first time read that this is possible with OS/2. Sorry when my ignorance started to confuse others.

Peter, you stated your ATI Radion HD7800 can drive your monitor with 2560  x 1600 running Panorama. What other resolutions are possible more than 1920x1200? Which monitor do you use?

Olafur, do you know a working combination of graphic card and big monitor (more than 1920x1200) which works with Panorama (guess SNAP will not work, correct?)?

Especially I would be interested in a card/monitor/driver setup which allows WQUXGA (3,840 × 2,400) @ 30 Hz. Or the same resolution with 60Hz via Display Port.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 09:15:34 am by Andi B. »

Peter kruithof

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Re: Panorama v Snap Video
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2018, 12:29:48 pm »

[/quote]

Peter, you stated your ATI Radion HD7800 can drive your monitor with 2560  x 1600 running Panorama. What other resolutions are possible more than 1920x1200? Which monitor do you use?
[/quote]

I have a Dell U3014t  , and i would like something bigger as always , so i also wander what is possible what happens when i would connect a 4k monitor or a TV .....
In the picture you see the options i have now

Doug Clark

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Re: Panorama v Snap Video
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2018, 01:18:32 am »
My experience with Panorama is that the performance is pretty good at 64K colors if you "Enable shadow buffer" - the check box on the first page of the Screen object. I have also found that I need to check both "Enable Custom Resolutions" and "Use Native Resolution" on the "Custom Resolutions" page of the screen object or else I can't get above 1024-760 with the monitor complaining the settings are out of its range. With those check boxes selected if sets the resolution perfectly.

The other side is that WinOS2/Dos support is rather spoty. WinOS2/Dos work well on my AMD machines, (RS780) chip reported. The default install for ArcaOS loads C:\OS2\MDOS\VSVGA.SYS. With that driver I get the message "The system does not support this session's video mode in a window", and yet it actually does. If VVGA.SYS is swapped for VSVGA.SYS the message goes away.

However on my laptop (Lenovo T530) WinOS2 and DOS do not work; neither will display.

The other disadvantage of Panorama is it doesn't turn off the monitor when inactive.

The advantages of SNAP are: dual head output, WinOS2/DOS works perfectly, and it turns off the monitor(s) after a period of inactivity.

With dual head you get the same width as a 4K  monitor (3840) but at a much cheaper price. Here I  can get (from Microcenter)  2 Dell 27 inch monitors which look very good for $300 for the pair. Add in a ATI Radeon x600 PCIe video card for $5 including shipping (eBay) and you have a pretty sweet setup.  The Radeon will do either VGA/VGA, DVI/DVI, or VGA/DVI depending on which cable set you hook up. (The connector on the card is DMS-59 and the cables come as DMS-59 -> VGA/VGA, or DMS59 -> DVI/DVI or DMS59 -> VGA/DVI.)

I am running VGA/VGA because I am sharing the dual monitor setup between an ArcaOS,  Windows 7, and  Windows XP/eCS machines; VGA KVMs are much cheaper than DVI KVMs. The Windows 7 machine is using the video from the motherboard; I am connected to the VGA connecter on the motherboard and the DVI connector on the motherboard with a DVI to VGA active converter between the DVI and the KVM ($9 from amazon.) The KVMs outputs are connected to the VGA inputs on the monitors.

The disadvantages are: you have the bezels around the monitors so there is a black area  between the left and right monitors, and most of the inexpensive 27 inch monitors only run a maximum of 1080 vertical resolution.