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WebSite Information => Comments, Suggestions & Questions => Topic started by: usertale on 2008.05.30, 19:46:58

Title: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: usertale on 2008.05.30, 19:46:58
Hello,
  Does OS/2 Warp 4 Server 'work' on the following 2 platforms?

  Intel Pentium 4 with 1 Gb memory
  Anthon 64 2X with 3 Gb memory

  Does anyone have a hardware compatibility list?

thank u
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: obiwan on 2008.05.30, 23:09:27
In theory, it should be possible to make it work, but Warp 4 Server is based on the Warp 3 underlying OS, and as such it is more difficult than the Warp 4 client to install on new hardware.

It is possible to install the Warp 4 Server components on Warp 4 Client. A document from IBM detailing how to do it is surely still possible to find on the Internet somewhere. Given that, it should be possible to install the Warp 4 Server components on top of the eComStation client, which I think I would do, depending on what you want to achieve.
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: ModZilla on 2008.07.11, 16:26:09
gRANTED THAT THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH A FRESH INSTALL OF WARP4 SERVER TO A SYSTEM WITH A MBOARD WITH A MODERN BIOS FRIENDLY TO, IE EXPOSED TO OR OEM CHIPPED TO MS WITH WINDOZE XP/HASTALA_VISTA OR? PRE INSTALLED, HARDWARE CONFLICTS DO ABOUND, SO I JUST TAKE MY WARP4 SERVER HDD OUT OF THE ITS BOX - INSTALL IT AS A PRIMARY IN A BOX THAT ALREADY HAS A DUAL BOOT/NTLDR ON BOARD USING AN ASUS MOBO WITH EARLY LIVE BIOS FUNCTION. THE LATER DUAL CORE IS NOT RECOMMENDED BUT SUCCESS IS HIGH WITH EARLY BOARDS. I CANT DIG UP A COMPATABILITY LIST OTHER THAN JUST DONT USE ANYTHING THAT IS LATER THAN THE FIRST RELEASE OF P4, I JUST DONT HAVE TIME TO TEST THEM ALL, BUT SO FAR SO GOOD WITH ASUS X-SERIES PENTIUM BOARDS. YOU MAY FIND A DUAL BOOT PROGRAM  AT HTTP://BOOTDISK.COM OR ELSEWHERE. I PREFER TO MIRROR WARP4 SERVER AND LOAD IT FROM AN EXTERNAL DEVICE USING A BOOTKIT ON A NEWER DUALCORE 1.7MHZ LAPTOP, ONE THAT HAS BEEN WIPED CLEAN(FLASH BIOSED) OF ANY WINDOZE PRODUCTS THAT TAKE CONTROL OF THE BIOS. SOMEDAY ALL THIS CONTROL THAT MS GETS AWAY WITH IN TERMS OF HARDWARE WILL COME BACK TO BITE THEM! HARDY HAR HAR! CANT WAIT! NOTHIN BUT PROBLEMS WITH WARP DUE TO MODERN BIOS, LIVE BIOS AND SOCKET WHATEVER WIRED WAY BEYOND ANY CONTROLLERS WHICH THE OS2 KERNEL RECOGNIZES, GOING BEYOND THE EARLY P4 I HAVE TESTED ROTZARUK  ;D@ ;D -MZ
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: saborion2 on 2008.07.11, 17:17:57
Re:

QuoteYOU MAY FIND A DUAL BOOT PROGRAM  AT HTTP://BOOTDISK.COM OR ELSEWHERE. I PREFER TO MIRROR WARP4 SERVER AND LOAD IT FROM AN EXTERNAL DEVICE USING A BOOTKIT ON A NEWER DUALCORE 1.7MHZ LAPTOP, ONE THAT HAS BEEN WIPED CLEAN(FLASH BIOSED) OF ANY WINDOZE PRODUCTS THAT TAKE CONTROL OF THE BIOS. SOMEDAY ALL THIS CONTROL THAT MS GETS AWAY WITH IN TERMS OF HARDWARE WILL COME BACK TO BITE THEM!

Gosh! I could not have said it better. Me too, I just can't wait to return to the future (does anyone remember taking one of those IBM Laptops that was associated with the IBM School's Program and had it "wiped cleaned" after all the programs (Windows OS included) was so messed up by your primary school aged kid that it could not boot). It would be nice to have OS/2 Boot-Up on "MBOARD(s) WITH A MODERN BIOS" Config. Sys.!  8)

Regards,

SAB
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: Blonde Guy on 2008.07.11, 17:31:27
Installing the operating system is limited to 512 MB RAM and 4 GB hard drive. You'll be looking for patched drivers to use a larger hard drive. You need a new W3 kernel to boot with more than 512 MB RAM. Good luck finding one.
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: saborion2 on 2008.07.11, 20:10:51
Hey "Blonde Guy",

Re:

Quote from: Blonde Guy on 2008.07.11, 17:31:27
Installing the operating system is limited to 512 MB RAM and 4 GB hard drive. You'll be looking for patched drivers to use a larger hard drive. You need a new W3 kernel to boot with more than 512 MB RAM. Good luck finding one.

In as much as you did not mention what was case with eComStation in this regard... it is the reason why the "proposed" VOYAGER (or CASSINI for that matter) Project(s) might just do the trick. And, these are the reasons why "geeks" (the "best" and the "brightest") were born! ??? Perhaps, to do the very same thing for the OS/2 Operating System what Linus Torvalds did for the Linux Operating System and the Linux Communities around the world. ;D ::) ;D

Best regards,

SAB
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: RobertM on 2008.07.11, 21:32:46
Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.07.11, 20:10:51
Hey "Blonde Guy",

Re:

Quote from: Blonde Guy on 2008.07.11, 17:31:27
Installing the operating system is limited to 512 MB RAM and 4 GB hard drive. You'll be looking for patched drivers to use a larger hard drive. You need a new W3 kernel to boot with more than 512 MB RAM. Good luck finding one.

In as much as you did not mention what was case with eComStation in this regard... it is the reason why the "proposed" VOYAGER (or CASSINI for that matter) Project(s) might just do the trick. And, these are the reasons why "geeks" (the "best" and the "brightest") were born! ??? Perhaps, to do the very same thing for the OS/2 Operating System what Linus Torvalds did for the Linux Operating System and the Linux Communities around the world. ;D ::) ;D

Best regards,

SAB


Actually, it probably just isnt relevant to the question. Anyone specifically asking about a specific version of Warp Server is probably doing so because that is what they have. It sounds to me like he is trying to replace an older machine with a newer one and wants to know about compatibility issues.

In addition, eComStation is not a replacement for any version of Warp Server. It is a replacement for Warp Client. To use the eComStation route, he would also have to purchase the "Server Pack" which is actually the last release of Warp Server for e-Business - and may still have to update it to work on certain newer hardware (like ones requiring SATA). At least, WSeB is a lot easier to find updates for.

Voyager and CASSINI, while perhaps nice conceptually, are also not solutions (at least, not until they exist), so they too are unfortunately irrelevant.

As a for instance, I would love to be able to install a 64bit version of OS/2 on some of my newer hardware, and while there are plans to make one, for all intents and purposes, those plans mean nothing for me (right now). I cannot consider something that does not exist (I can hope that one day it will - but "one day" solves nothing for me right now, leaving me with 32bit support and 4GB memory limit).




USERTALE:
If you do not need the server components, your best bet is eComStation. If you do, your best bet may be to get WSeB (by buying eCS and the "Server Package" for it) and using UpCD to update the WSeB disks (that come with the "Server Pack" add-on) to the latest drivers.

Otherwise, it'll be a lot of driver searches, finding the newest WS4 kernel, etc; and trying to get the install to work - all keeping in mind BlondeGuy's notes and recommendations...



A final Warp Server 4 option would be to determine your CPU and disk needs, and try to find a used IBM Server on eBay (or elsewhere) that IBM has tested the compatibility of with WS4... such as a Netfinity. Old Intellistations are also a good bet - and some of them are virtually entirely component for component matches for the lower end Netfinity Servers (the desktop sized dual and single CPU ones).

The one thing to keep in mind if going to a big Netfinity server is certain hardware cannot be used in them (usually certain video cards or RAID controllers). You can find ones that work - but you need to ensure they are compatible first. As a for instance, my Netfinity 7000 will not accept *any* video card I have tried - cannot set address range on card. New NIC cards (gigabit Intel) on the other hand work fine... so did a newer IBM RAID card that supposedly wasnt compatible.

The "smaller" Netfinity Servers and their Intellistation brethren dont seem to have that problem - and also seem to support a wider range of CPU upgrades (the Netfinity 7000 wont go over (4) Xeon 550MHz because the core changed in the Intel 600MHz and up - while the smaller Intellistations and their matching smaller Netfinity servers support the 600MHz chips fine (as well as all the higher ones with the same bus speed)).

Of course, you probably dont need a 140lb server... so looking at a smaller one may just work...



Robert
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: saborion2 on 2008.07.11, 22:20:40
Re:

Quote

In addition, eComStation is not a replacement for any version of Warp Server. It is a replacement for Warp Client. To use the eComStation route, he would also have to purchase the "Server Pack" which is actually the last release of Warp Server for e-Business - and may still have to update it to work on certain newer hardware (like ones requiring SATA). At least, WSeB is a lot easier to find updates for.

Voyager and CASSINI, while perhaps nice conceptually, are also not solutions (at least, not until they exist), so they too are unfortunately irrelevant.

As a for instance, I would love to be able to install a 64bit version of OS/2 on some of my newer hardware, and while there are plans to make one, for all intents and purposes, those plans mean nothing for me (right now). I cannot consider something that does not exist (I can hope that one day it will - but "one day" solves nothing for me right now, leaving me with 32bit support and 4GB memory limit).

For more than on reason.... if there was development that offered an insight into the future then it was perhaps reflected in these words below:


Quoteyes,  custom version of os2ldr is coming.  we may expect it within a couple of weeks.
the only info that i have is that a group coordinated by pasha is doing it.

os2krnl may also come (of course not in two weeks Smiley ).

also,

QuoteUnfortunally ;-) This project do group programmers from exUSSR, I am coordinator of this project. Netlabs don't help and don't participation in this project. They have own voyager. Our group rewrite all as is. Mean, rewrite os2ldr - it must be compatible with IBM kernels. Rewrite doscall1.dll - it must be compatible with IBM os2ldr and os2krnl, rewrite os2krnl - it must be compatible with os2ldr and doscall1.dll (Note: It is in theory) . Now ending 1st part - os2ldr. Now it is full compatible, except - absent MCA support, absent EISA support, absent support for i4004, i8080, i8085, i8086, i8088, i80186, i80286, i80386, i80486. As you understand - need test. We writes according to docs from EDM/2, DebugHandbook, ifs.inf,omf.inf, DDK header, lxlite source and of course os2 debuger.

  For common info. now writes readme - next upload to hobbes.nmsu.edu output packet.

   Status of loader:

  Binary loader - free
  Source loader - close (it used DDK and can't be under GPL)

and, these were posted on this very site. So, if there was any room for speculation/ error of judgment as far as the potential for "updated" (modern) systems utilization... are concerned then the above referenced statements by Pasha, AAA, El Vato et al may be where the blame has to be laid.  8)

Best regards,

SAB.
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: RobertM on 2008.07.11, 23:30:18
saborion2:

Please explain how that helps someone who needs to do this today? There is no relevance to that - which is what the original poster's question implied. None of that is relevant to doing an install today.

Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: saborion2 on 2008.07.12, 06:00:18
Hi RobertM,

Re:

Quote from: RobertM on 2008.07.11, 23:30:18
saborion2:

Please explain how that helps someone who needs to do this today? There is no relevance to that - which is what the original poster's question implied. None of that is relevant to doing an install today.


With reference to "the original poster's question" which reads as follows:

Quote

Does OS/2 Warp 4 Server 'work' on the following 2 platforms?

  Intel Pentium 4 with 1 Gb memory
  Anthon 64 2X with 3 Gb memory

  Does anyone have a hardware compatibility list?


In as much as the proposed solutions would not appear be of any relevance with regards to solving an install issue "today", it is the opinion (given the limitations with regards to "OS/2 Warp 4 Server" enhancement/developments) that one would for the foreseeable future continue to experience difficulties/limitations with both the OS/2 Client and Server Operating Systems in general. Perhaps, these are some of the reasons why none other than IBM said the following:

QuoteThere are no replacement products from IBM. IBM suggests that OS/2 customers consider Linux as an alternative operating system for OS/2 client and server environments.

http://www-306.ibm.com/software/os/warp/migration.html


and, it was in the context of this IBM's statement that reference to Voyager and CASSINI was made and I trust that you will get the point that was being made.

Regards,

SAB
   
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: RobertM on 2008.07.12, 06:21:29
sab:

Sorry, I dont get the point... nor do I think someone would specifically ask about a 12 year old version of an OS unless they already had a copy and they needed to install it on the hardware specified. I think you are misreading his intent.
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: Fahrvenugen on 2008.07.12, 07:24:45
Usertale,

Warp Server 4 is based on the Warp 3 code base.  It should be possible to get it to run on the P4 machine, however the Athlon 64 may not run it.  I don't think the Warp 3 kernel was ever updated to allow it to run on the 64 bit processors as the Warp 4 kernel was updated.

But, I do have a P4 running Warp 3 myself, so I do know it is possible to get Warp 3 to run on a P4.  But it won't run without updates, you'll need  a few things.

First, you'll need a working copy of Warp and the latest UpdCD so you can build a new install disk for Warp Server.

You'll need to update Warp Server 4 (using Updcd) with the last Fixpak IBM released to the general public - Fixpak 43.  You can download it from here:

ftp://service.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/os2/rsu/xr_w043/


You'll also need to be using the latest Danis506 driver too, otherwise it will still have trouble recognizing your hard disk.

For the memory, Fixpak 43 does have the last public release of the Warp 3 kernel in it, and on some systems that will recognize memory up to 3 GB.  On some systems it won't see anything above 512 MB, and on some it won't see anything above 64MB.  If it can't see all the memory on your system, try using Patchldr on the Kernel Loader:

http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/cgi-bin/h-search?key=patchldr

that may fix that issue.


The other thing that I've done on some Warp 3 machines is to install the OS on a slower machine (Pentium 2 or 3), and then swap the hard disk over to the new P4 machine after installing all the updates (generally I've only had to do this when the updated CD built with UpdCD didn't work). 

Also, when installing, select plain old VGA.  Once you are up adn running with FP43 you can actually install the latest SNAP driver (just search this website for a link to download the last release and the release code to unlock it).

Also, before installing go into the system BIOS, and if you can turn off ACPI and Plug and Play.  Warp 3 never supported either of these.

Anyways, it should be possible to get Warp 3 to run on the P4, just not all that easy.  You may be better to look at either the eCS (or Warp 4) client with the server stuff installed on top of it (as referenced in a previous response).

Good luck!

Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: saborion2 on 2008.07.12, 09:06:01
Re:

QuoteWarp Server 4 is based on the Warp 3 code base.

Will not the below attached suggest that there is a even later release of OS/2 Warp Server

QuoteOS/2 Warp 4.5 (codename "Aurora") was released in 1999, as a server release. It featured a bootable install CD, a new 32-bit TCP/IP stack, a journaling file system (JFS), and a logical volume manager. A desktop release, deemed "Convenience Pak for Warp 4" was released as version 4.51 in late 2000....

http://www.os2bbs.com/OS2News/OS2Warp.html


and, as far as I can recall the OS/2 Client (Ver. 4.51) which was based on the "Aurora" Codes. (I stand to be corrected).

Best regards,

SAB
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: Fahrvenugen on 2008.07.12, 15:28:17

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.07.12, 09:06:01
Re:

QuoteWarp Server 4 is based on the Warp 3 code base.

Will not the below attached suggest that there is a even later release of OS/2 Warp Server

QuoteOS/2 Warp 4.5 (codename "Aurora") was released in 1999, as a server release. It featured a bootable install CD, a new 32-bit TCP/IP stack, a journaling file system (JFS), and a logical volume manager. A desktop release, deemed "Convenience Pak for Warp 4" was released as version 4.51 in late 2000....

http://www.os2bbs.com/OS2News/OS2Warp.html


and, as far as I can recall the OS/2 Client (Ver. 4.51) which was based on the "Aurora" Codes. (I stand to be corrected).

Best regards,

SAB


You're confusing the "Client" and the "Server" versions of the operating system.

Warp Server 4 and Warp Server 4 Advanced were based on the Warp 3 code base.  Warp Server is actually a combination / integration of OS/2 Warp 3.0 and IBM Lan Server.  Previously the combination was available as OS/2 2.1 + LAN Server (both of which previously had been separate products).  When IBM released Warp Server  (also known as Warp Server 4), they took the latest version of OS/2 (Version 3.0), took what would have been the latest version of the IBM Lan Server product , integrated it into one package, and called it Warp Server 4 and Warp Server 4 Advanced (with the Advanced product, the main addition being HPFS386).  As this was the first time the 2 products had been integrated and offered as one common product, IBM chose to market it as a new product.

This did create some confusion at the time.  Some people thought with the new number (Warp 4) it was a new OS, when in fact it was just Warp 3 with the latest Fixpak installed + the lan server product. 

Then in the fall of 1996 when Warp 4 (Client, code name: Merlin), there was more confusion at the time, as Warp Server was on the old Warp 3 code base but the client OS was on the new code base.

This didn't actually get fixed until Warp Server for eBusiness (Code name: Aurora) was released in 1999.   Warp Server for eBusiness was the version that was built on the then-latest version of the Warp 4 code base, but the code was enhanced and updated for the server version. 

The two versions of the operating system (the client and the server) didn't finally achieve code parity until the Merlin Convenience Packs (MCP 1 and 2, mcp1 released in 2001 if memory serves) were release through Software Choice.  MCP brought some of the updates that were in Warp Server for eBusiness (JFS, LVM, 32 bit TCP/IP, etc) to the Warp client.


Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: saborion2 on 2008.07.12, 18:37:19
Re:

Quote

Warp Server 4 is based on the Warp 3 code base.


This is what was read:

Quote

  Chapter 2.  Base operating system enhancements

The base operating system for OS/2 Warp Server for e-business is an advanced multitasking, 32-bit operating system that runs DOS, Windows, and OS/2 16 and 32 bit applications and utilizes SMP hardware configurations. OS/2 Warp Server version 4.0 was based on the OS/2 Warp Connect operating system. OS/2 Warp Server for e-business is based on a modified OS/2 Warp 4.0 operating platform. Many of the components that operate on upper layers make use of the essential services provided by the base operating system. Many changes have been made to make OS/2 Warp Server for e-business a premier operating platform. Some changes are discussed here, and others are covered in the chapters that follow together with the service that they enhance. Many new features and enhancements have been incorporated into this version of the OS/2 base operating system. All of the service elements that have been changed since OS/2 Warp 4.0 was released as well as those incorporated into OS/2 Warp Server and OS/2 Warp Server SMP have been integrated into this version of the base operating system.

http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/SG245393.html


Thus, it is not a question of what I am saying/trying to say; but, that it is simply the question of what is "Inside OS/2 Warp Server for e-business" according to "IBM" and that which can be "recommended" to users like "usertale" - a upgrade path!

Hope you are having a fine day.  8)

Best regards,

SAB
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: Fahrvenugen on 2008.07.12, 22:28:33
I know it can be confusing.  Essentially here's the quick run down.

Warp Server 4 and Warp Server 4 Advanced are in fact based on the OS/2 Warp version 3 (which was originally code named: Warp) code base.  They were released in late 1995 / early 1996.

Warp Server for eBusiness (a newer version of Warp Server then Warp Server version  4, where the version number was commonly known as 4.5) was based on the Warp version 4 client (the client code named Merlin) and was released in about 1999.

So in summary, to make this clear,

OS/2 Warp Server version 4 = based on modified OS/2 Warp version 3 client + fixpaks + whatever the latest version of IBM LAN Server was at the time.

OS/2 Warp Server version  4 Advanced = Based on modified OS/2 Warp version 3 client + Fixpaks + HPFS386 + optional SMP kernel (I think the SMP kernel may also have been available for the non-advanced version too, but I can't recall this 100%) + whatever the latest version of IBM LAN Server was at the time.

OS/2 Warp Server for eBusiness = Based on modified OS/2 Warp version 4 (merlin) client + fixpaks + LVM + JFS + other stuff they put in + whatever the latest version of IBM LAN Server was at the time.

Note, that OS/2 Warp Server 4 is *NOT* the same product as OS/2 Warp Server for eBusiness.

It is true that Warp Server for eBusiness is a newer version of Warp Server then Warp Server 4, however the original post asked about Warp Server 4.

I know, it gets confusing
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: RobertM on 2008.07.12, 23:09:08
And Warp Server for e-Business also came with the SMP kernel as an install option. In addition it came with the updated Merlin clients. Both client (included with WSeB) and server were based off the newer Merlin versions (v4.5, 4.51, 4.52 and 4.52 PF).

HPFS386, at the time of the release, was a separately purchasable option (which came with the full HPFS386 install on a separate disk). Or, those who were migrating from Warp Server 4 Advanced (Warp 3 with LanMan 4 on top and SMP and HPFS386) would still retain their HPFS386 support - I believe the installer for WSeB would simply update the HPFS386 product (the install option for HPFS386 would be disabled if it didnt already exist in the WS4 install). Further HPFS386 fixpacks were also available.
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: saborion2 on 2008.07.13, 00:04:07
Re:

Quote from: RobertM on 2008.07.12, 23:09:08
And Warp Server for e-Business also came with the SMP kernel as an install option. In addition it came with the updated Merlin clients. Both client (included with WSeB) and server were based off the newer Merlin versions (v4.5, 4.51, 4.52 and 4.52 PF).

HPFS386, at the time of the release, was a separately purchasable option (which came with the full HPFS386 install on a separate disk). Or, those who were migrating from Warp Server 4 Advanced (Warp 3 with LanMan 4 on top and SMP and HPFS386) would still retain their HPFS386 support - I believe the installer for WSeB would simply update the HPFS386 product (the install option for HPFS386 would be disabled if it didnt already exist in the WS4 install). Further HPFS386 fixpacks were also available.

Now that we all appear to be on the same track.. it is like saying to "Usertale" - Hey, why mess around with "Warp Server 4"... and, as is now agreed by "Fahrvenugen" who also said:

QuoteOS/2 Warp Server 4 is *NOT* the same product as OS/2 Warp Server for eBusiness.

It is true that Warp Server for eBusiness is a newer version of Warp Server then Warp Server 4

So, the assumption was/is - at times, don't we all wish to have (get our hands on) the "best" there is? Additionally, where can eComStation be now be positioned in all of this. (assuming of course that "Usertale" may wish to consider an "upgrade" path)  ;)

Best regards,

SAB
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: RobertM on 2008.07.13, 01:49:08
Actually, I was quite happy with Warp Server 4 Advanced, and ran it for years. It took months since IBM sent me WSeB for me to upgrade... which was not a need, so much as I wanted to play with something new.

When I duplicate old setups, I use the same OS (instead of having to buy another one... WSeB and the "Server Pack" for eCS are NOT cheap). Thus, my main server is still running WSeB, and will continue to run it. If it gets replaced, the new server will run WSeB as well (unless I have the dough for a new version and a compelling reason to upgrade).
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: Fahrvenugen on 2008.07.13, 18:06:56
Quote from: RobertM on 2008.07.13, 01:49:08
Actually, I was quite happy with Warp Server 4 Advanced, and ran it for years. It took months since IBM sent me WSeB for me to upgrade... which was not a need, so much as I wanted to play with something new.

When I duplicate old setups, I use the same OS (instead of having to buy another one... WSeB and the "Server Pack" for eCS are NOT cheap). Thus, my main server is still running WSeB, and will continue to run it. If it gets replaced, the new server will run WSeB as well (unless I have the dough for a new version and a compelling reason to upgrade).


I have to agree too.  Personally I prefer the Warp 3 / Warp Server 4 code base over the Warp 4 (client) / Warp Server for eBusiness code base.  For many reasons I find that the older version preferable to the "newer" version, especially in server applications.  The main benefit of the newer version (for the situations that I have put OS/2 into a server type role) is the larger hard disk partitions that become possible with LVM and JFS.  Even with this, I still have machines that I have left running on the older Warp 3 code base.

Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: saborion2 on 2008.07.14, 20:44:19
Quote from: Fahrvenugen on 2008.07.13, 18:06:56
Quote from: RobertM on 2008.07.13, 01:49:08
Actually, I was quite happy with Warp Server 4 Advanced, and ran it for years. It took months since IBM sent me WSeB for me to upgrade... which was not a need, so much as I wanted to play with something new.

When I duplicate old setups, I use the same OS (instead of having to buy another one... WSeB and the "Server Pack" for eCS are NOT cheap). Thus, my main server is still running WSeB, and will continue to run it. If it gets replaced, the new server will run WSeB as well (unless I have the dough for a new version and a compelling reason to upgrade).


I have to agree too.  Personally I prefer the Warp 3 / Warp Server 4 code base over the Warp 4 (client) / Warp Server for eBusiness code base.  For many reasons I find that the older version preferable to the "newer" version, especially in server applications.  The main benefit of the newer version (for the situations that I have put OS/2 into a server type role) is the larger hard disk partitions that become possible with LVM and JFS.  Even with this, I still have machines that I have left running on the older Warp 3 code base.


Hi RobertM, Hi Fahrvenugen,

Unlike you guys, we have been waiting around for years to have certain features developed and integrated into OS/2 (I guess you knew about the long "wait" between the releases of "Windows" and that of OS/2... IBM having to wait on Microsoft for the development of the Application Programming Interfaces - APIs); and, because we propose to deploy on an scale requiring international considerations... we still cannot deploy even Warp Server for eBusiness adequately to meet our needs; thus, our focus and requirement on "upgraded" (newer) software and hardware product solutions which brings us to the last part of "usertale's" question which asks:

QuoteDoes anyone have a hardware compatibility list?

Best regards,

SAB
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: RobertM on 2008.07.14, 21:22:53
Hi saborion2,

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.07.14, 20:44:19
Hi RobertM, Hi Fahrvenugen,

Unlike you guys, we have been waiting around for years to have certain features developed and integrated into OS/2 (I guess you knew about the long "wait" between the releases of "Windows" and that of OS/2... IBM having to wait on Microsoft for the development of the Application Programming Interfaces - APIs); and, because we propose to deploy on an scale requiring international considerations... we still cannot deploy even Warp Server for eBusiness adequately to meet our needs; thus, our focus and requirement on "upgraded" (newer) software and hardware product solutions...

Indeed... depends on the person. I've found for our install needs, eComStation 1.2MR suits fine. OS/2 doesnt require super fast processors or lots of memory to get the same work done as Vista or Windows Server 2003. It requires a very small fraction of the resources. My ancient (by today's standards) Netfinity can still outperform a Windows Server 2003 machine equipped with many times the CPU power. Really.

One of our clients (before they contracted us) bought a nice HP server, U320 setup and Windows Server 2003 - my Netfinity has a whopping 4 CPUs installed - all ancient Xeon 550MHz CPUs. Their HP has dual 2.4GHz CPUs. Mine serves over a dozen web sites (sometimes over 100,000 requests on a busy day), multiple FTP sites (multi-gigabyte video files being transferred to and from for Star Trek New Voyages by 17 different people), email, NetBios/domain controller, time server, SQL (to a half dozen websites through scripts running via the web server) and monitors various of our clients off-site eComStation machines (which report in every 5 minutes). Their HP acts as a domain controller and file server - nothing more. The Netfinity (running WSeB v4.52 CP2 PF) sometimes hits a whopping 15% on a CPU... usually no CPU is over 10%... and uses maybe 250MB-300MB of RAM - wanna guess how much CPU and memory the Windows Server 2003 machine (doing far less stuff) hits/uses?

So... when we pick a machine for a client, we find a compatible board, decent video (usually ATI) and NIC (and sound if needed - which is rare) and install eCS. Then we set it up, walk away and come back every 6 months to dust it inside and out.

Which brings me to this...

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.07.14, 20:44:19
...which brings us to the last part of "usertale's" question which asks:

QuoteDoes anyone have a hardware compatibility list?
Best regards,
SAB

We already addressed that for him from two different perspectives... someone else pointed him the the OS/2 hardware compatibility list hosted on one of the other OS/2 sites, and I offered the suggestion (under the assumption he may not have picked hardware yet) that he look into specific models of older Netfinity and x Series IBM servers and then look up IBM's CHL for them - I didnt give a specific URL, because the machines' availabilities vary (as they are usually eBay things)... so in finding one, he could then Google IBM's CHL and see if it was worth getting.

The beauty is, many "older" IBM servers that WSeB (much less eComStation - which has even more updated drivers) will run on them - AND (the key point) come with hardware that is still comparable to todays' "servers" by many small companies...

For instance, my not very young x440 came with four Xeon 2.4GHz CPUs and hardware RAID... and is upgradable to EIGHT 3.2GHz CPUs. With WSeB, that is beyond overkill - hence I havent even turned it on... the Netfinity with it's ancient CPUs can still handle 8-10 times the traffic it gets right now... even with MySQL calls, and script calls (REXX and otherwise) via the webserver, and handles traffic on two IPs at the same time, and uses two NICs (one for TCP/IP, one for NetBIOS) with a third NIC exclusively for system management... with everything else running I listed above, the machine can crank out 30 requests per second (it actually has been successfully tested to 100rps... 30 is the sweet spot where there is no lag) - or 2.5 million requests per day... I have yet to see any Windows Server setup on today's hardware that can handle that.

So, the point is, in looking for a replacement machine, he doesnt need "super state of the art" - for WS4, WSeB or eComStation - nor does he need all the new features that "we" are waiting on in OS/2 (such as 64bit support)... he doesnt need that to find a machine that will run OS/2, nor does he in ANY way need it for performance.

Yes, it would be nice to have those features... I want them one day so OS/2 will once again be able to push my CPUs to their limits... but honestly (other than maybe larger memory addressing - which still isnt a need, but a want) I really dont need it.

-Robert
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: saborion2 on 2008.07.15, 21:24:45
Hi Robert,

Among other things...

Re:

QuoteSo, the point is, in looking for a replacement machine, he doesnt need "super state of the art" - for WS4, WSeB or eComStation - nor does he need all the new features that "we" are waiting on in OS/2 (such as 64bit support)... he doesnt need that to find a machine that will run OS/2, nor does he in ANY way need it for performance.

Yes, it would be nice to have those features... I want them one day so OS/2 will once again be able to push my CPUs to their limits... but honestly (other than maybe larger memory addressing - which still isnt a need, but a want) I really dont need it

Understandably there are different things for different folks; and, BTW - again it appears that you may have conveniently failed to respond to a part of one of my earlier post in this thread which quoted the following:

Quote

The Explosion of the Ariane 5

http://www.ima.umn.edu/~arnold/disasters/ariane.html

The Patriot Missile Failure

http://www.ima.umn.edu/~arnold/disasters/patriot.html


Both from an academic and professional stand point it will appear that your own company's undertaking (as well as "usertale's"; or, our own for that matter) may pale in terms of other situational requirements - not to mention further developments (deterioration) in the US mortgage industry over the last few days (the US government bailing out Fannie Maes and Freddie Macs...). Just where did the "calculations/computations" go wrong?

Do you remember these famous words: "Hello Houston! We Have A Problem"?; and, these are some of the reasons why there are much more advanced software and hardware feature requirements for different folks like those at "European Space Agency" which by far exceed yours, "usertale's" as well as ours.  8)

Hope you are having a fine day today.

Best regards.

SAB
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: RobertM on 2008.07.15, 23:54:07
Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.07.15, 21:24:45
Hi Robert,

Among other things...
...again it appears that you may have conveniently failed to respond to a part of one of my earlier post in this thread which quoted the following:

Quote
The Explosion of the Ariane 5
http://www.ima.umn.edu/~arnold/disasters/ariane.html

The Patriot Missile Failure
http://www.ima.umn.edu/~arnold/disasters/patriot.html

I didnt convieniently forget. While it is a good topic of discussion (and a valid one), it is irrelevant to this discussion. Feel free to start a new thread regarding it - I do have comments and my own perspective on it - this topic just isnt the place since that is not what this topic is about. I'll join you in the new thread if you create it.  :)

-Robert
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: ModZilla on 2008.08.09, 23:54:15
It was nice to have read the rundown on all the server and client conglamorates and also enlightening by young apprentice Robert; Now, here is/are the other burning question(s), if I go further/fwd and develop with WebSphere for E Business, will I still need the old OS/2 Warp TCP/IP app I bought running seperately from NET START SERVER calls? Its imbedded in warp 4 server so why was it[TCP/IP]offered as a separate app? Is this a layer thing? BTW,  I watched this thing go on ebay in spring of 05 for $400USD???) Why did it cost so darn much $? And still im cornfused about the mobos, can dual core and other similar boards run well with Warp? I recently visited MICRO Center's tech desk and was blown away by all the newer boards for sale with cpus sold as combos, interestingly ASUS was well represented as was Intel, though Intel boards are more conservative, my postulate has alway been forget Athlon and go Intel CPU chipped to an Intel Board, Mid Priced, and as preferred would I do well to rebuild my big tower and run Warp4 Server on a newer mid priced intel dual core or ?
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: RobertM on 2008.08.10, 01:44:18
Quote from: ModZilla on 2008.08.09, 23:54:15
It was nice to have read the rundown on all the server and client conglamorates and also enlightening by young apprentice Robert;

Young? Thanks... not for a decade or two...  ;D

Quote from: ModZilla on 2008.08.09, 23:54:15
Now, here is/are the other burning question(s), if I go further/fwd and develop with WebSphere for E Business, will I still need the old OS/2 Warp TCP/IP app I bought running seperately from NET START SERVER calls?

If it's just the TCP/IP stuff, then no. If it was some development kit, then maybe. All still depends on what features that are WebSphere specific that you plan on using. If you are simply using the Apache based features, then your better route is to use the newest version of Apache - otherwise, yeah, you have to stick with WebSphere, but I dont know of any other functionality you would gain from a separate TCP/IP package. It may be something from OS/2 2.0/2.1 (the Internet Access Kit?)

I've played with WebSphere (albeit, very briefly) and never needed to install anything extra.

Quote from: ModZilla on 2008.08.09, 23:54:15
Its imbedded in warp 4 server so why was it[TCP/IP]offered as a separate app? Is this a layer thing?

Are you talking about Communications Manager/2 or some similar product? If so, you dont need it - it was a bunch of communications protocol related systems/services, that was required (most notably in the banking industry, where it was used on various OS/2 servers, ATMs, atc), but I dont recall anything additional that it brings "to the table" that you would need for Warp Server 4 or later... actually, any TCP/IP support included in it would be outdated... the better route would be to install Warp Server 4 (or later) and install the latest TCP/IP upgrade/fixpack (to give you the newer 32bit stack for Warp Server 4 - or the latest 32bit stack for WSeB, Warp 4 and eCS).

Currently, I am running the latest stack that came with Warp Server for eBusiness CP2 PF, no fixpacks applied, no noticeable problems. The earlier 32bit stack had one major issue, and a few minor ones... but you would need the original WSeB release to have that stack.

Upgrading WS4 to the 32bit stack would give you the latest stack, unless by some chance you managed to find the original stack release - which is unlikely.

What's the product's full name? Interestingly, I owned one or more of everything you seem to have, at one time or another... but lost them during a move from Baltimore (some stolen, some lost with a storage location I couldnt keep paying for). So... the good news is, I've got some experience with most or all of the things... the bad news being, I havent used much of the stuff in years...


Quote from: ModZilla on 2008.08.09, 23:54:15
BTW,  I watched this thing go on ebay in spring of 05 for $400USD???) Why did it cost so darn much $? And still im cornfused about the mobos, can dual core and other similar boards run well with Warp?

If Warp supports SMP on the board, it will do better than run well. I have not seen any PC based operating system that makes better use of more than one CPU.

So...



All SMP capable versions of OS/2 since Warp Server 4 Advanced SMP support up to 64 CPUs. OS/2 was supposedly optimized for up to 16 CPUs, but it has been tested with great results on 64 CPU systems (by IBM themself), namely the IBM eServer x430, a 64-way server, that used PIII CPUs. It would be a sweet machine to run OS/2 on - even at the last announced CPU speed of 900MHz (which is probably upgradable somewhat considerably)... but you could buy a house for the price that it came out for originally (and I have yet to be able to find one used...). I for one would love to have a 64 way 900Mhz to 1.2GHz (per CPU) system...


Quote from: ModZilla on 2008.08.09, 23:54:15
I recently visited MICRO Center's tech desk and was blown away by all the newer boards for sale with cpus sold as combos, interestingly ASUS was well represented as was Intel, though Intel boards are more conservative, my postulate has alway been forget Athlon and go Intel CPU chipped to an Intel Board, Mid Priced, and as preferred would I do well to rebuild my big tower and run Warp4 Server on a newer mid priced intel dual core or ?

Depends on your needs. Some things (like Lotus Domino GoWebserver) would "prefer" a lot of CPUs over a few fast ones. I have no idea how well threaded WebSphere is... but I do know that earlier versions of Apache did not handle using multiple threads well (not much benefit). Later versions fix that a bit. DGWS on the other hand, spawns 1-2 threads per request, and it and OS/2 manage them phenomenally.

Another alternative, which is still probably better, is to look for an xSeries that supports OS/2, has 4 CPUs (or more), and can be upgraded to 2.4GHz-3.0GHZ CPUs. The box will be blazingly fast, and if you find it is supported, it usually means IBM did the testing and ensured the driver support is there... you can grab one for far cheaper than a new machine... and will find it faster than anything you can put together.

Robert
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: RobertM on 2008.08.10, 02:13:53
As a side note about the x430 (I've followed this beast since it's announcement date)...

Quote"With these new offerings, IBM is the only company in the industry to deliver one to 64 processors in its Intel server family," said Bill Colton, general manager, IBM eServer xSeries. "Customers looking to deploy industry standard data center solutions can now select from the industry's most scalable, powerful line of servers to help build, run and manage their e-business infrastructure affordably and effectively."

IBM was the only company who released one of these partially (or mostly?) because (in the PC world) only OS/2 supported 64 way computers at the time.


QuoteSupport for Multiple Operating Systems - Enterprise Class
The new eServer x430, a 64-way server with the new Intel 900 MHz (2) Pentium III® XeonTM processor, offers industry leading Non-Uniform Memory Access (NUMA) architecture and I/O technologies. The x430 is optimized for the scalability, availability and manageability requirements of large and rapidly growing e-infrastructures and offers customers the ability to simultaneously run different applications across multiple operating systems.

The x430 supports a broad application portfolio, including Linux via the Linux Application Environment TM (LAE) and ptx®. The x430 will also support the latest edition of Windows Datacenter Server when it becomes available.

Well, Linux support was added (by IBM) later. As for Windows Datacenter, MS couldn't do that either... IBM created the code for that as well... and that took a long time from the x430's release date if memory serves.

This machine was a beautiful thing... but with the OS/2 server market declining (and it being the only thing that ran on it with 64 CPUs installed when it first came out), there weren't many takers when it was released.

Sadly, another "drop of the ball" by IBM... just like Domino GoWebserver... back in 1998/1999, it was in the top 5-10 webservers running. Could have kept that market... but no...

OS/2 made an excellent server platform for web serving as well (when coupled with LDGW)... or application hosting or so much more. IBM would do "NT on Netfinity" performance testing... and "OS/2 on Netfinity" performance testing... guess which one outperformed the others by a factor of ten?

That market, nowadays, is a key market to point out the reasons for an upgraded kernel, et al, for OS/2 (64 bit), because certain OS limits could be raised, such as number of concurrent threads that can be run, and of course memory limits. If the kernel (and related components) is ever upgraded to 64 bit, I doubt anything in the PC world will be able to touch OS/2 as a high volume web or ftp server (when running the correct server app), especially with it's built in "fast-path" technology from things like the file system to the web server (ooops, I think that only works with LDGW... but that too can be fixed).
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server modified...
Post by: ModZilla on 2008.08.10, 02:59:48
Thanks for setting me straight here, yes there was the TCP/IP "base kit" for OS/2 ver2.x but I meant to say that at some point I purchased the TCP/IP app separately, in 1996 and I thought it was for warp3 and later came in warp 3 connect, now I guess you mean to say its already inside warp4 server: the ISBN no was not avail at the time of purchase for the app, I know it was not a net monitoring thing like Tivoli just the stack... So, I dont need it as an app any longer with the WSeB and all the goodies, I appreciate that Robert...would that have been "fix pak 15" or?
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server SEEKING PERMISSION fr os2w member 'Fahrvenugen'
Post by: ModZilla on 2008.08.22, 16:41:13
 :-[ :-[embarrased to ask but SEEKING PERMISSION fr os2w member 'Fahrvenugen' to post his response on my web. That was quite a suscinct rundown you gave there and though somewhat confusing to me, its a nice reference...I think more people should see this as well as Rob's posts in this regard. Hey Rob, why wont your mom give back your M2? I have plenty of new unused chords, 'look likethe old telephone chord' should she ever need a new replacement. ;D
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server SEEKING PERMISSION fr os2w member 'Fahrvenugen'
Post by: RobertM on 2008.08.22, 21:07:20
Quote from: ModZilla on 2008.08.22, 16:41:13
:-[ :-[embarrased to ask but SEEKING PERMISSION fr os2w member 'Fahrvenugen' to post his response on my web. That was quite a suscinct rundown you gave there and though somewhat confusing to me, its a nice reference...I think more people should see this as well as Rob's posts in this regard. Hey Rob, why wont your mom give back your M2? I have plenty of new unused chords, 'look likethe old telephone chord' should she ever need a new replacement. ;D

Hi Mod,

It's an original Model M (not an M2), one of the first that was designed to work with a PC (1986 vintage). It was a gift... so it's not mine. I gave it to her almost 20 years ago with a computer as a Christmas or birthday present. That computer has since been scrapped (age and all), and replaced 3 times with newer computers, mice, screens, speakers, etc. The only remaining component is the keyboard... its 22 years old (this November on it's birthday) and going strong. So, I'm always looking for more of it's caliber... and she advised me she's never getting rid of it or getting a new one... it's moving to her next new computer, and the next one, and the next one... so, I offered to buy it from her... that was a no as well. So, it's more of a running joke between us now, as my brother and I love them as well.

It was kinda funny... when she first got it, she thought it was loud, and wasnt sure if she would like it. She's gotten rid of 3 new keyboards that came with systems she bought to replace her original, and wont part with the Model M (not that I blame her). But, I cant complain... my computers are all hooked up to Model M's or M13's (full sized M with trackpoint).
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server SEEKING PERMISSION fr os2w member 'Fahrvenugen'
Post by: Fahrvenugen on 2008.08.24, 06:21:59
Quote from: ModZilla on 2008.08.22, 16:41:13
:-[ :-[embarrased to ask but SEEKING PERMISSION fr os2w member 'Fahrvenugen' to post his response on my web. That was quite a suscinct rundown you gave there and though somewhat confusing to me, its a nice reference...I think more people should see this as well as Rob's posts in this regard. Hey Rob, why wont your mom give back your M2? I have plenty of new unused chords, 'look likethe old telephone chord' should she ever need a new replacement. ;D

You can certainly re-post my response on your website.  The only thing I ask is that you also provide somewhere on your site a link pointing back to here at os2World.com

:)
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: ModZilla on 2008.08.26, 17:07:40
Thank you! Fahrvenugen. Will do and alas, the link idea is great too as it may draw some attention to this forum and thereby they may see the Petition and sign it 8) 

A link here to soft sales: http://www.golsoftware.com/software/pc/vmware/vmware_gsx_server_3.2.html offers VMware workstation as a download cheap, I would not recommend this, who knows where they [the vendor] really get it from? China? could be, just check out the wording in teir FAQ and the price? Too good to be real... :'( ;D :D
anyone use VMware this way: D.L. HELL Viola! & Voink! err, getting back to basics the original question part one: simple ans Yes. getting to part two took some digging and ... there are plenty of "partial" hardware compatability lists out on the web, I could not [yet]find on OS/2 hardware compatability i.e., w/just which MOBOS, work with this version stated in that part of his query,  but I did state elsewhere that early P4 mobos w/o sata work fine as I run Os/2 v4 Server on an ASUS X-series MOBO and its fine [mini atx 468 pin ]
now off topic FYI in the process of trying to find a MOBO hitlist of OS/2 whatever here again is a link to Brad Templeton on Wiki... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Templeton 
Tanks

MZ...

some old os2 links...http://www.os2bbs.com/download/Link1Day.html

VMware Workstation 6.5 Release Candidate 1 (RC1) is now available, as well, of interest is:
http://www.vmware.com/communities/content/beta/ws65/welcome.html?msgNum=00000lk0:0018f5_a000016tV&block=1&msgNature=all&msgStatus=all&count=1219757831&content=central&src=EM_08Q3_VMW_OTHER_WRKSTN65_RC1&ossrc=EM_08Q3_VMW_OTHER_WRKSTN65_RC1&elq=D17BD4199D2A4DBEB4F5D3D56C906063
now that is a URL! I hope it works for you
er:

:o
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: ModZilla on 2008.08.30, 19:15:27
I am not sure that warp 3 client would be the basis for warp 4 server but in any event, though
trite I would amend to Fahrvenugen's OS/w evolution list by adding the extended version of OS/2 on 3.5 in disks/boxed set: Operating System 2 Extended  Ed. Ver 1.3, (C)1990 or? and other special memory versions of OS/2 that slipped out along the way.... :-*
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: RobertM on 2008.08.30, 22:08:56
Quote from: ModZilla on 2008.08.30, 19:15:27
I am not sure that warp 3 client would be the basis for warp 4 server.

The Warp 3 Client is definitely the basis for the Warp Server 4.

If someone is referring to a Warp 4 Server, it is possible they are referring to Warp Server for eBusiness - or Warp Server 4... Warp Server for eBusiness would be v4.50/4.51/4.52 and based off an updated Warp 4 (Aurora - while Warp 4 itself was Merlin release).

Rob
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: ModZilla on 2008.08.31, 02:17:35
well usertale, I hope you did not get swamped by the many different posts here between posts as I did,
when I installed warp 4 on a P4 machine the splash down graphic said Version 3 still, but the product was vastly different. I am still needing to get past the gigabyte problem. A 140lb Netfinity is the ans. but not to your question. Cheers and good luck with OS/2.
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: Fahrvenugen on 2008.09.01, 17:46:20
Modzilla, I guess I'm a little confused now...

If you're talking about the OS/2 Warp 4 (client version) then it will definitely appear to be a little different from OS/2 Warp 3.

If you're talking about OS/2 Warp Server 4 then it will appear very similar to OS/2 Warp 3 (client version).  The OS/2 Warp Server 4 product is in fact OS/2 Warp 3 (Client) with the IBM Lan Server product integrated into the install.

If you are talking about OS/2 Warp Server for eBusiness then this will look like the OS/2 Warp 4 (client) with the IBM Lan Server product and IBM Websphere for OS/2 integrated into the install.

The only other option would be if you have a copy of Warp that someone has hacked together (or maybe a beta?  I can't recall what the first Merlin betas looked like, but I do seem to recall the initial Merlin betas still had a lot of Warp 3 stuff in them) with different features and DLL's from different versions of OS/2 (for example, there was the file kicking around along with instructions on how to get Warp 3 look like the Warp 4 GUI, it was - and may still be - available on Hobbes).  But this would not be an "official" GA release of either Warp 3 or 4.


Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: obiwan on 2008.09.06, 03:36:53
Quote from: Fahrvenugen on 2008.07.13, 18:06:56
Personally I prefer the Warp 3 / Warp Server 4 code base over the Warp 4 (client) / Warp Server for eBusiness code base.  For many reasons I find that the older version preferable to the "newer" version, especially in server applications.  The main benefit of the newer version (for the situations that I have put OS/2 into a server type role) is the larger hard disk partitions that become possible with LVM and JFS.  Even with this, I still have machines that I have left running on the older Warp 3 code base.

This comment has influenced me to consider Warp 4 Server for a server I need to set up. Assuming the hardware is compatible, is this a decent choice? Have you, or anyone else running such a server, encountered problems with services ported using libc, like those built by Paul Smedley?
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: Fahrvenugen on 2008.09.06, 05:36:42
There are a few things that I have found don't really work properly under the older Warp 3 code base, but most stuff works.  The stuff that I have found that does not work includes:

-Odin stuff (and anything built under Odin).  This includes the Innotek runtime, the Innotek port of Adobe Acrobat Reader 5, Innotek Font Engine, the Innotek port of Java, the older 1.1.5 Openoffice, the "unofficial" Flash 7a.  There are some hacks out there that some users have claimed will get this stuff to work, however I've never been able to get any of it to work properly. 

Personally the only one that I really care about on this list is Java.  On the other hand the older IBM 1.1.8 works fine, I've also heard that the IBM Java 1.3.1 works  (but I've never tried this).  And I think the Goldencode port will work (since it isn't Odin based), but again, I havn't tried the Goldencode port on a Warp 3 box.

As for the font engine, I find that if I really need the Truetype fonts on Warp 3 I'll just install the older Freetype/2 DLL rather then the Innotek Font Engine.  True, the Freetype DLL doesn't display quite as nicely as IFE, but it works.

Otherwise most of the stuff I've tried seems to work pretty well.  I know the EMX libraries definitely work.  Provided you install the needed libc stuff the Firefox 2.x builds works (unless you try and install either the Innotek java or Flash 7a plugin) - I havn't tried Firefox 3.x on a Warp 3 box, but I may within the next few days.  Paul Smedley's ports of stuff that I've tried (Apache, MySQL, PHP, Imagemagick) all work under Warp 3.

Things I have *not* tried: the latest MySQL 5.1 (although the 5.0 builds work, so  I can't see the 5.1 not working), Virtualbox, and I have *not* tried Samba on a Warp 3 box.

Getting it to work, Fixpaks, Fixpaks, Fixpaks

To get this stuff to work under Warp 3, you'll need the latest OS fixpak, you'll need a fixpak for TCP/IP, and you'll also need to install the full 32 bit version of MPTS.  If you do all this and then install all the EMX and Libc stuff you'll find that most things work.  If you try and just use the base (1994) release of Warp 3 you'll run into problems and lots of stuff that won't run.

For warp 3 client, the last fixpak released by IBM is FP40.  For Warp Server 4, it is FP43.  You can grab them:

For the "disk image" version of FP40:
ftp://service.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/os2/fixes/v3.0warp/english-us/xr_w040

The "RSU" (ZIP) version of FP40:
ftp://service.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/os2/rsu/xr_w040

The "Disk Image" version of FP43:
ftp://service.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/os2/fixes/v3.0warp/english-us/xr_w043

The "RSU" (ZIP) version of FP43:
ftp://service.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/os2/rsu/xr_w043

You'll also need to update the TCP/IP stuff with un00959 (if you have Warp Connect) or UN_0980 (if you have Warp Server 4).  You can grab it at:

ftp://service.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/tcpip/fixes/v3.1os2/un00959/english-us

ftp://service.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/tcpip/fixes/v3.1os2andv4.0os2/universal/un_0980

And install the newer 32 bit MPTS stack over top of the old 16 bit MPTS version that Warp 3 installs (assuming you have either Warp Connect or Warp Server 4.  If you have the older Warp 3 client that only came with the IBM Internet Access Kit that came in the BonusPack, then don't bother installing the Access Kit, just install the 32 bit MPTS).  The install disk images can be found at:

ftp://service.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/mpts/fixes/english-us/wr08610_conv

Once you run the install, you'll also need to install the MPTS WR08621 fixpak from:

ftp://service.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/mpts/fixes/english-us/wr08621

And finally grab the newstack.zip file off Hobbes and do a final update to your stack using the files in that ZIP:

http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/h-search.php?key=newstack.zip&pushbutton=Search

If you do have the full Warp Server 4 version and you're using the LAN Server stuff, there are some fixpaks for that at:

ftp://service.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/lan/fixes/lsv5.0/english-us/ip08267/

ftp://service.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/lan/fixes/lsv5.0_uni-smp/english-us/ip08532/

If you're using the Warp 3 Connect client and IBM Peer, there is an update to Peer at:

ftp://service.boulder.ibm.com/ps/products/lan/fixes/ibm.peer/english-us/ip08196

I can't recall what other fixpaks are out there...  but that covers most of them.

Other tips: Once you get FP40 (or higher) installed then SNAP will work.  If you've got a video card that is supported by SNAP, this is probably the best option for video.

Another point:  I have no clue if network drivers based on Genmac will work.  I've never tried them on  a Warp 3 box. 

My own thoughts:  If you have an old copy of Warp 3 (or Warp Server 4) sitting on a shelf collecting dust, go ahead and give it a try.  The only thing it'll really cost you is time if it doesn't.  But if you're looking to spend money on it, you're probably better off to go with either WsEB or eCS.    While I still like the Warp 3 installs that I have running, I also admit that it can be a challenge to get working the way you want it to work.
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: El Vato on 2008.09.06, 06:26:22
Quote from: Fahrvenugen on 2008.09.06, 05:36:42
[...] And I think the Goldencode port will work (since it isn't Odin based), but again, I havn't tried the Goldencode port on a Warp 3 box.
[...]

Fahrvenugen,

GCD did not work in Warp 3 the last time I tried --none of the versions.  As a matter of fact, I believe GCD is for Warp 4 and above.
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: Fahrvenugen on 2008.09.06, 09:18:53
El Vato,

Thanks for the information.  As I mentioned, I've never tried GCD on a Warp 3 box.

One other thing that I forgot to mention... due to the way the Warp 3 kernel handles memory, on some machines it is difficult to get it to recognize a Gig or more memory even when you've used the patchldr utility from Hobbes...  So, if you're trying to get Warp 3 up and running on such a machine, there could be a situation where it becomes necessary to remove memory to bring it lower then 1 GB... 

Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: Fahrvenugen on 2008.09.07, 07:19:03
Hi,

A bit of an update...

I had some spare time and decided to try a few things with Warp 3  / Warp Server 4  on both my current install and a fresh install, both with the 32 bit TCP/IP stack and the Newstack fix.

My current install is running Fixpak 40.  My "Fresh install" (I literally formatted a hard disk and did a fresh install) I tested with both FP40 and FP43.  Here's what I found:

Fixpak 40 machine, SNAP video:
-Paul Smedley's ports of Apache, PHP, and MySQL 5.x all run fine on FP40 (I already knew this)
-Firefox 2.0.0.x runs fine on FP40
-Firefox 3.0 and 3.1 would not run at all on FP40, they just hung the machine when I tried to start them (although  a KILL would kill the EXE)
-The latest port of Samba seemed to have difficulties on FP40

On the "fresh install" of Warp 3 after FP43 was installed, SNAP for video:

-Samba seems to work properly now, although Warpin gave an error during the install by selecting the option to Continue things seem to work after that.
-Firefox 2.0.0.x still works fine
-Firefox 3.0.x and 3.1.x now will display a "window border", but you can't see the actual contents of the window - it just provides a "snapshot" of whatever is on the desktop behind it.  But on the other hand, it does not just hang.
-All of Paul's other ports that I've tried (Apache, PHP. MySQL) all still work.

I'm sure there are other things that may work / not work... I havn't done much playing round due to limited time.


Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: obiwan on 2008.09.07, 18:45:53
Thanks for all the great info, Fahrvenugen.

The big pitfall for me, and why I've never actually finished installing Warp Server 4, is figuring out all the fixpaks and updates, so having a rundown like you posted is a big help. The fact that you now installed it yourself so quickly shows me it can be done. I also appreciate your tests and shared results. I can feel pretty confident now that the stuff I need has a good chance of being ok.

This is purely to be a server, so I don't need any browsers or Odin stuff, or even graphics beyond VGA. I had to think about whether I care about Java, but for the purposes of this server I don't.

So I'll go ahead and give it a try.
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: Fahrvenugen on 2008.09.07, 19:40:30
No problem Obiwan,

Another bit of information on the "installing on a machine with 1 GB or more memory can be problematic" issue...

With the hard disk that I formatted and did a fresh install, when I tried it on a Pentium 4 (which has 1 GB), it crashed with a c0000005 doscall1.dll error when trying to boot.  Nothing I did could get past this when 1 GB  was installed (tried patching the loader, even tried pulling the doscall1.dll from Warp 4...  I did get it past that crash using the loader, kernel, and doscall1.dll from Warp 4, but then when the WPS came up it crashed, I don't really recommend mixing and matching the kernel from Warp 4 with Warp 3 anyways, for obvious reasons... this was more of a "let's see what happens" kind of thing that I decided to try...  the fun you can have when you know the hard drive is going to be formatted again anyways...). 

The solution to get it to boot was to remove memory.  Once I got it to less then 1 GB it booted fine on the P4 (I tried it at 512 MB and 768 MB - these are the 2 memory configurations I could create from the memory I have on hand).

On the other hand, I took the same hard disk and put it in a Pentium 3 with 1 GB and it booted fine. 

It appears it may be an issue with P4 and 1 GB more memory (in fact, I found that it appears that early versions of Warp 4 had this same issue, IBM released the file P4Fix.zip as a fix which eventually ended up added to W4 fixpaks) but I can't find any Warp 3 fixes for this issue.

I don't know if this is also an issue with AMD processors or not...

Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: Fahrvenugen on 2008.09.07, 20:20:10
Hi again,

I just decided to boot that hard disk up in the P4 machine again... seems that even with 768 MB Warp is only recognizing 512 MB...  I think this may be a limitation of the Warp 3 kernel... I'll do some more testing and report back.

Just tried it on the P3 machine, seems that is only recognizing 512 MB too...

Guess I had never noticed this before as all the Warp 3 / Warp Server 4 boxes I'm running are all 512 MB or less...

Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: RobertM on 2008.09.08, 22:03:10
Quote from: Fahrvenugen on 2008.09.07, 20:20:10
Hi again,

I just decided to boot that hard disk up in the P4 machine again... seems that even with 768 MB Warp is only recognizing 512 MB...  I think this may be a limitation of the Warp 3 kernel... I'll do some more testing and report back.

Just tried it on the P3 machine, seems that is only recognizing 512 MB too...

Guess I had never noticed this before as all the Warp 3 / Warp Server 4 boxes I'm running are all 512 MB or less...

Hi Fahrvenugen,

It may be a limitation of what Warp Server 4 supports on the particular chipset. I've had machines set up with 768MB, 1GB and 2GB running WS4. I'd try:

- Ensuring the BIOS is not set to "OS/2" in the memory access section
- If the BIOS is already not set to "OS/2" and has multiple selections, try another one that is not "OS/2"
- Apply the latest WS4 Fixpacks and kernels and seeing where that puts you.

If that still does not allow access to greater than 512MB, then it is possible that the chipset simply is not fully supported with WS4. The only chipsets I have done this on are all Intel based, and all using PII and PIII Xeon CPUs (200MHz to 600MHz range)... so I have no idea which other ones it is supported on, nor which kernels and fixpacks add full support for which chipsets.

Robert
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: Fahrvenugen on 2008.09.12, 08:37:18
Hmm, interesting...

The P3 and P4 machine that I tested on are both Intel chipsets, normally I've left them on the Non-os/2 setting in the BIOS.  As for kernels, I was at the kernel that shipped with Fixpak 43 for WS4 (I had done a full FP43 on it). 

It may very well depend on the machine.  I know that Warp 4 / eCS have no difficulty recognizing all the memory on either system (running the 14.103a or 14.104a kernel)... 

Overall it isn't a big deal for me... the *production* machines that I have running the Warp 3 base are all 512 MB, I mainly had put the install on this particular hard disk just as a test!
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: oli on 2009.03.17, 01:38:43
Quote from: Fahrvenugen on 2008.07.12, 07:24:45
Usertale,

Warp Server 4 is based on the Warp 3 code base.  It should be possible to get it to run on the P4 machine, however the Athlon 64 may not run it.  I don't think the Warp 3 kernel was ever updated to allow it to run on the 64 bit processors as the Warp 4 kernel was updated.



Worked fine on a 3500 Athlon 64 a couple of years back, in fact for some reason better than some W4 versions, I just needed to update the install diskettes and then throw in Fixpack 4x and snap, Danis and etc optional, if fact it was more of a problem for me to justify having a otherwise powerful computer tied up with an OS with a very limited supply of software for .......
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp 4 Server
Post by: RobertM on 2009.07.29, 22:35:39
Quote from: Fahrvenugen on 2008.09.12, 08:37:18
Hmm, interesting...

The P3 and P4 machine that I tested on are both Intel chipsets, normally I've left them on the Non-os/2 setting in the BIOS.  A

That is correct. If that setting exists in the BIOS, it (the OS/2 setting) should not be used for anything other than OS/2 1.X releases, and MAYBE v2.0 (been a while, I dont remember if it actually applies to 2.0 or not).

The "Non-OS/2" setting should be used for all "recent" (15 years old or newer) versions of OS/2 and eCS.