Haya everyone...
Looking for a good bittorrent out there for eCS, anyone recommend one that is not Limeware or a bittorrent that is not being worked on anymore? Thanks!
Craig Miller
I'm using both ctorrent and Azureus.
Ctorrent is a command line client that integrates nicely and unobstrusively with Firefox. Volker Ehlert has created a nice package: http://www.ehlertronic.de/esbin/ctorr-pack.zip
Azureus is a full-blown GUI client. Note that the normal version does NOT work on OS/2. However, Jürgen Ulbts has created a package that does: http://www.juergen-ulbts.de/content/download/project/ports/Azureus4eCS_v010_2007-10-03.zip Be very sure to follow the setup guide!
Quote from: chennecke on 2008.06.01, 18:12:26
I'm using both ctorrent and Azureus.
Ctorrent is a command line client that integrates nicely and unobstrusively with Firefox. Volker Ehlert has created a nice package: http://www.ehlertronic.de/esbin/ctorr-pack.zip
Azureus is a full-blown GUI client. Note that the normal version does NOT work on OS/2. However, Jürgen Ulbts has created a package that does: http://www.juergen-ulbts.de/content/download/project/ports/Azureus4eCS_v010_2007-10-03.zip Be very sure to follow the setup guide!
Can anyone say what is the status of
Peer-To-Peer that was once a prominent feature integrated into OS/2 Warp Ver. 3.0. I am not quite sure what has happened with
Peer-To-Peer in OS/2 since Ver. 3.0. ::) ::) ::)
Thank.
SAB
Thanks chennecke but I thought that CTorrent was dead? The CTorrent project was discontinued in 2004 by its primary author YuHong. I will look into Azureus though...
Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.06.01, 21:24:26
Can anyone say what is the status of Peer-To-Peer that was once a prominent feature integrated into OS/2 Warp Ver. 3.0. I am not quite sure what has happened with Peer-To-Peer in OS/2 since Ver. 3.0. ::) ::) ::)
Hi SAB,
I think I finally made the link from the thread to your question. Peer-to-peer as seen in PC networking actually has little (if nothing) to do with so-called "peer networks" and the torrent-stuff that people use for sharing files nowadays. But getting back to your question "what has happened" with Peer-to-Peer since Warp 3: Some fixpacks. After then: Nothing.
HTH
Thomas
Quote from: craigm on 2008.06.01, 21:34:41
Thanks chennecke but I thought that CTorrent was dead? The CTorrent project was discontinued in 2004 by its primary author YuHong.
The original authors stopped working on it indeed, but what I'm talking about is called "Enhanced CTorrent" by the author who picked it up. To quote the readme file:
The purpose of the Enhanced CTorrent effort is to fix problems that
remain in the code, modernize existing features and algorithms, and
implement new features while maintaining low overhead requirements and
a high standard of performance (both part of the original CTorrent
design philosophy). Highlights of the enhanced client include:
* Support for large files (>2GB) and large torrents (>255 files)
* Strategic selection of pieces to request for download
* Continuous queueing of download requests, tuned based on latency
and throughput for each peer
* Improved download performance, including parallel requests in
initial and endgame modes
* Improved bandwidth regulation
* Improved compatibility with other peers
* Performance optimization and bug fixes
* An interface for monitoring and managing multiple clients
The Enhanced CTorrent works fine for me after a read of its text
files, and then ignoring the .cmd file (which requires several directories to
previously exist) to instead use just: >ctorrent9 -U 32 file.torrent, where
the "-U" limits upload speed to 32KB/s so that other programs aren't entirely
shut out of the web.
Had a Linux client going previously, so knew my router was set up to allow the
port use, which could otherwise be a tangle. And you probably need a 32-bit
TCPIP stack, whatever that is. I never managed to sort through that maze of
fixpacks with W4. You could still try it.
I unzipped ctorrent9.exe into a temporary directory, haven't got it arranged
for convenience yet. Then spent quite a while locating a torrent worth its
"free" price; moved that .torrent file to the dir with ctorrent, used the one
parameter as above, copied and pasted the name text to the command line, and
after a short pause that I figured was negotiating the announcement stuff,
voila! Downloading began. Uses very little CPU time.
I prefer command line and would say that it's actually about as convenient as
GUI for this use, when you add in all the time you spend clicking around to
find the downloaded file, or find the torrent file if you ever need it again.
O_o
I'd beg to differ. IMO, nothing beats being able to manage multiple torrents, select/deselect specific files in each torrent, assign priority, etc all from a nice GUI. With some of the better GUI torrent clients, you dont need to keep the .torrents around because the program keeps track of them once they are loaded, and if you set the torrent app to open .torrent files from Firefox directly, there's no need to move .torrents into program directories, copy torrent names, and then go.
Well, many of those features can be incorporated "into" cTorrent by anyone willing to play with the cTorrent.cmd script.
From there, either a text based "GUI" or a PM based GUI can be created.
- The output can be either parsed from the cmdline window, or by having the app change the window list application name, can be read from there via a REXX or C++ app.
- The download to location can be specified by a pop-up when called by Firefox as well using such a method.
- The info (what's going on, how many torrents are being U/L or D/L) can be sent to xWorkplace or the desktop via WPSWizard to a REXX widget.
The list of possibilities is near endless. Maybe if someone has the time, they can whip something together.
Regardless, I'm finding it very fast, and very resource unintensive (and it finally resolves the 2GB file size limit if running on JFS).
Robert
Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.06.03, 22:31:41
...and if you set the torrent app to open .torrent files from Firefox directly, there's no need to move .torrents into program directories, copy torrent names, and then go.
Hi Saijin_Naib,
Sorry I didn't go into more detail about the above part of your post... I will now.
NOTE: The line numbers below are only accurate for the original cTorrent.CMD file. If it's been changed, they may no longer be accurate
- Create a "Downloads" folder someplace (preferably on a JFS drive)
- Open ctorrent.cmd in a text editor
- Line #08 - Change to the Drive Letter that cTorrent is located on
- Line #09 - Change to the Drive Letter that cTorrent is located on
- Line #10 - Change to the location of the Downloads folder you wish to use (it does not have to be in the cTorrent directory)
- Line #13 - Change FIRST DIRECTORY portion to the location of your TMP directory (if not sure where it is, look in your config.sys for SET TMP=_____)
- Line #13 - Change SECOND DIRECTORY portion to the location of your newly created Downloads directory (from Step 1)
- Line #15 - Change to the proper location for cTorrent9.exe (include executable name - just change directory and drive as needed)
- In Firefox, if you ALREADY have a Torrent app assigned, go to Tools->Options->Content (Tab)->FileTypes
...THEN:
Change the association for .torrent files to Z:\cTorrent\cTorrent.CMD (or wherever you have the edited file located).
In Firefox, if you DO NOT already have a Torrent app assigned, when asked what to do with the file (when you click on a Torrent link), select the app from the Firefox's Browse dialog and click "Always use this..."
Done deal... when you click on a Torrent now, it will automagically start cTorrent9.exe with the parameters set in the cTorrent
.CMD file and download them to the directory you specified in the CMD file.
Hope that helps,
Robert
As a side note, I have added the following config options in the CMD file (directly after the exe name on line 15):
-Z -R -G These do the following:
-Z Use icon as process indicator.
-R Show current Down/Up rate in Window List string.
-G Show current download % in Window List string.
Thanks RobertM for doing the post(s) that I was considering on how to make
ctorrent convenient from Firefox, and doing it much better than I would have.
Got distracted on what I might "whip up" in REXX besides still trying to find
anything worthwhile to download, to justify the time spent.
A point I omitted is that it's fun to show such text mode applications to
Windows types, how small and simple the actual program is, and point out the
vast bloat of a GUI, and how glitzy graphics and rarely used "features" often
so dominate that ease of use for basic function is neglected.
But I won't argue with Saijin_Naib that GUI can be more convenient, especially
for selecting arbitrary items. What really annoys me is the rabid insistence
on ONLY using the mouse when page-up, page-down, and arrow keys are often much
faster. Many programs, regardless of OS, simply don't have alternatives.
One convenience drawback to ctorrent command line use is re-starting after
shutdown, which I usually do at least overnight. So my sketch for a REXX
program now includes starting up all torrents that are in a given directory.
Thanks for pointing out the simple way to get info into monitoring portion by
reading the window list when those parameters are given on the command line.
Hi ddan!
No problem!
Though, to be fair... it's not GUI programs that are bloated. It is (certain) Windows GUI programs (that are the ones most people are familiar with) that are bloated. Describe comes to mind as very non-bloated in comparison to it's counterparts of the day.
:)
If you don't find the time to whip something up in REXX, let me know.
Something else... you can pipe all the output to RxQueue (or a file or wherever). Using just the normal pipe operator (ie: cTorrent9.exe > SomeFileOrRxQueue) will pipe all but the errors... and the OS/2 Command Reference shows how to pipe those as well (as well as Rexx Tips and Tricks if memory serves).
With just reading STDIO, it should be sufficient... only one error came up while running it that way, and it was more of a warning that really didnt matter about it trying the default ports, and then saying that everything was OK in the same line). But, both should be able to be piped to the same (or even different) RxQueues - or a different Queue for each instance (using a random Queue Name Generator). Done that little trick before... had a centralized Queue that was know to each program, each program registered it's Queue name with it, then popped it's own info into it's own queue... then the main program just cycled through active queues while checking it's main queue for a new instance of the sub program (which it would just add to it's queues to check list).
A variant of that (for the possibility of people starting dozens of ctorrents) is to have each instance assign it's "ID" at the beginning of each string sent and pop them onto one queue that way the main program can track each individually.
Just thoughts... was chatting with Saijin yesterday and working out the needs to make such a thing work...
I also had another "idea"... there is a torrent plugin for Firefox (it makes use of some Windows torrent app, who's name alludes me at the moment). I am wondering how difficult it would be to either (a) make a plugin similar for Firefox or (b) revise the current one to work with cTorrent...
As a side note, I'd rarely use it. I still have too many random issues with FF2 on OS/2 (mostly memory leaks - most of which seem to be Javascript (ie: leaving gMail or pages with Javascript ads open) related, which eventually causes the browser to crash (either the browser itself, or Innotek Font Engine). But... it might be nice to have. My setup is kinda weird in that I am stuck with IFE 2.40 even though everyone says 2.60beta is much better - installing 2.60beta manages to destroy my desktop/ini files to the point the system will not boot (and I am too lazy to find keys for everything needed (such as xFile as an example)) and reinstall).
Anyway... since I am rambling (and I havent even started my second cup of coffee yet)... if you dont find time, let me know. I started on an installer, as well as something to timeout-prompt the user for the directory to save the torrent in (ie: pop-up "Save To:" <Dir Dialog with Favorites Dialog> and if user doesnt do anything in x seconds, it will save to the default or last location).
As a final side note, I have VX-REXX... and I seem to recall that someplace there were updates and addons that:
(1) enabled Warp style tabs in notebooks
(2) enabled all sorts of other neat controls (different progress bars, different data fields, etc)
Do you (or anyone) know where I can find such (if they exist - it mighta been the other Visual Rexx I am thinking of)? I've found fixes and patches on Hobbes... could they be there, or are those just fixes and patches as the description implies?
Thanks,
Robert
Hmm to RobertM. Okay, just WHERE did you find the "-Z -R -G" switches? Went
back and read the very short doc that's included, then went looking on the
referenced ctorrent site, on to the enhanced, and I seem to have missed it.
Haven't tried in the source code, as the run-time key commands listed online
don't seem to work, for a start. Those switches aren't even listed in the
Enhanced User's Guide at:
http://www.rahul.net/dholmes/ctorrent/userguide.html#-z
Don't know that I actually need to know any more, but I'm curious where you
got them.
Anyhoo, think reading the Window List is the only practical interface, unless
there's some way to find out which strings of colored numbers that go to a
central REXX control program's standard input belongs to which torrent. Right
now I don't see how that'd work, besides that ANSI codes (that garbage up at
least copy and paste) have to be stripped out.
Here's my program outline:
At start-up:
Look in a special directory for .torrent files.
Start a VIO for each (via properly modified ctorrent.cmd).
Main loop:
Every 5 seconds: Read the Window List; massage, display. (25 lines, tops.)
Every minute: read my download directory to check for new .torrents; if
found, move to the special directory, then start a VIO. (Firefox would be
set to just download the .torrent.)
Believe that'd be relatively easy, and fortunately, I'm not the type who even
thinks of bells and whistles. Start-up is the most important part for me, as
I'm near certain to turn the computer off. ── Hmm. Doing proper shutdown of
several torrents would be annoying in itself. I'd just crash 'em.
But now that I've completed all of four torrents for testing and haven't found
any that are of more use than to put some magnetic domains into a certain
pattern, feel free to expand my outline into working code. I'm sure you're
busy, but it's of only passing interest to me, and decreasing.
Have an interim solution that at least avoids typing in file names to start or
re-start (the likely use since you've got the MIME type in Firefox) a torrent.
Get my KMPFS10.ZIP from Hobbes. Modify the line for the file types to just
"*.torrent", and the two lines for the executable to:
start /win c:\temp2\ctorrent9.exe
Slight modification could automatically start all torrents with one <enter>.
Sorry, nothing at all on your side notes.
Quote from: ddan on 2008.06.05, 06:38:17
Hmm to RobertM. Okay, just WHERE did you find the "-Z -R -G" switches? Went
back and read the very short doc that's included, then went looking on the
referenced ctorrent site, on to the enhanced, and I seem to have missed it.
Haven't tried in the source code, as the run-time key commands listed online
don't seem to work, for a start. Those switches aren't even listed in the
Enhanced User's Guide at:
http://www.rahul.net/dholmes/ctorrent/userguide.html#-z
I kinda have a feeling they are OS/2 specific (as the method to populate/change the Window List data would need to be).
Open a command window, do a "MODE 120,60" (that way the output doesnt scroll off the screen), and run cTorrent9.exe...
It will list all it's commandline options, with those added in a section at the bottom (their placement is also another reason I suspect they are OS/2 specific).
Quote from: ddan on 2008.06.05, 06:38:17
Don't know that I actually need to know any more, but I'm curious where you
got them.
Anyhoo, think reading the Window List is the only practical interface, unless
there's some way to find out which strings of colored numbers that go to a
central REXX control program's standard input belongs to which torrent. Right
now I don't see how that'd work, besides that ANSI codes (that garbage up at
least copy and paste) have to be stripped out.
Well, that's where RxQueue and string parsing comes in handy... you could just pipe it there. Now... as for stripping out the ANSI code... well, that is a little more difficult, but could be done, simply by having a list of what the code looks like, or analyzing the output and figuring which sections to grab...
The Escape Sequences are all pretty much the same. The format is the same as well. There is documentation on it all someplace on Hobbes (and maybe in OS/2), and I have something someplace that documents it as well.
In this particular case, you would just need to look for the Escape char, then proceed to the first "m" and get rid of that data - repeat till end of string (or even easier, grab that section of data to a stem variable (ie: MyTorrent.downloadrate.#="Whatever") look for the next ESC sequence, find the data between it and the next ESC char and place in MyTorrent.UploadRate.#, and continue...
The beauty of the output (in terms of ease of parsing) is that it only seems to use color codes... the sequences are thus pretty easy to find. They are all (if memory serves):
ESC[(MODE);(COLOR);(COLOR)m
[ being the VIO color sequence byte (ie: ESC[ indicates color/attribute change to follow)
MODE being blink, bold, etc (some dont apply in certain video modes)
COLOR being either foreground or background colors or both...
m being the end character
On the screen, that looks like:
<[1;35;40m
(the < is supposed to be an arrow pointing left - but that doesnt display)
Everything after the "m" (to the next ESC char/arrow) is actual output/displayed on the screen.
Quote from: ddan on 2008.06.05, 06:38:17
Here's my program outline:
At start-up:
Look in a special directory for .torrent files.
Start a VIO for each (via properly modified ctorrent.cmd).
Main loop:
Every 5 seconds: Read the Window List; massage, display. (25 lines, tops.)
Every minute: read my download directory to check for new .torrents; if
found, move to the special directory, then start a VIO. (Firefox would be
set to just download the .torrent.)
Keep in mind one problem... cTorrent only displays part of the info. The title gets cut at a certain character count (havent counted, so dont know what it is - try d/l'ing a torrent with a long name and you will see what I mean).
Thus the only problem with using the Window List data as a method unless you are very careful not to mix up torrents. For instance:
My Big Torrent Name of Some Movie I am Sharing with the World for Everyone To Enjoy - Part 1
My Big Torrent Name of Some Movie I am Sharing with the World for Everyone To Enjoy - Part 2
Will all show up on the Window List as:
My Big Torrent Name of Some Movie I am Sharing with the Wor
(or something similarly truncated - you get the point)
Now, it is possible that the data stored is larger than that, and reading it from REXX will get a longer string (ie: the limitation is in the Window List - and xWP), but I think it unlikely.
Quote from: ddan on 2008.06.05, 06:38:17
Believe that'd be relatively easy, and fortunately, I'm not the type who even
thinks of bells and whistles. Start-up is the most important part for me, as
I'm near certain to turn the computer off. ── Hmm. Doing proper shutdown of
several torrents would be annoying in itself. I'd just crash 'em.
I have shut down cTorrent while it is running. It seems to exit cleanly. I think sending it a close command whould properly shut it down. On restart, it checks what's there, then continues the download.
So... either it properly shuts down, or verifies the chunks written, and discards bad or incompleted ones from killing it - either way, considering the size of BitTorrent chunks, no big deal.
Quote from: ddan on 2008.06.05, 06:38:17
But now that I've completed all of four torrents for testing and haven't found
any that are of more use than to put some magnetic domains into a certain
pattern, feel free to expand my outline into working code. I'm sure you're
busy, but it's of only passing interest to me, and decreasing.
Well, I have a bunch of projects I really wanna do... use the pipe control in mPlayer for one (to create a GUI controller/playlist)... this as another. So, I'll see what I can do. Wanted to leave it to someone else because I am going away for another Star Trek New Voyages episode shoot in a few days and wont get to it (or mPlayer) till July.
Quote from: ddan on 2008.06.05, 06:38:17
Have an interim solution that at least avoids typing in file names to start or
re-start (the likely use since you've got the MIME type in Firefox) a torrent.
Get my KMPFS10.ZIP from Hobbes. Modify the line for the file types to just
"*.torrent", and the two lines for the executable to:
start /win c:\temp2\ctorrent9.exe
Slight modification could automatically start all torrents with one <enter>.
Neat... will check it out in a bit...
Quote from: ddan on 2008.06.05, 06:38:17
Sorry, nothing at all on your side notes.
S'ok... I need to post it in the proper thread anyway... which I should know (being a moderator and all). ;D
Rob
To RobertM and others using ctorrent9.exe:
I've got working REXX code that automates torrent start-up and semi-automates adding a new torrent. Big too large for attachments here, so is at:
http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/pub/incoming/CTORMON2.ZIP
Add all the bells and whistles you wish. I'll get back with an update after further use.
Incremental update to CTORMON2.ZIP now on Hobbes. Has improved reliability and faster keyboard response, besides a little cosmetic. May be some version confusion because MIturbide mentioned it in News by that name, though it's changed enough to be bumped up to 3, its internal number. Look in Hobbes \incoming directory, or check that date is 06\15.
Regardless, it makes ctorrent9 much pleasant, particularly for re-starting torrents.
Further improvement to Ctorrent Monitor now on Hobbes:
http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/pub/incoming/CTORMON4.ZIP
Adds a little more convenience to finish with a torrent (though keeping the file on hand).
Reliability also appears to be improved. I've used the previous version without problem daily since last release, and I hope this version builds on that without introducing any bugs...
I'm now definitely finding this about as convenient as any GUI bittorrent client (while using FAR fewer resources). Volker Ehlert's ctorrent9.exe seems rock solid, not a single problem with it despite frequent starts and re-starts in my testing.
Hello,
eros2's ctorrent seem to be a bit more unpolished, so ctorrent9 seem to handle most of the problems better, great, but the next step I'd like to see is.
Am a long time bittorrent user (several years) on OS/2 and eComStation but have thought about this for a long time...
Improvement 1
How about rewriting it somewhat and create a .dll that also would be callable by rexx?! The rexx part should be quite easy actually and would make it really useful to many, not to mention how well it would integrate with the rexx scripts.
Improvement 2
Output info about parts downloaded so that GUI apps can show ███ ██ █ ▄ █ etc.
Improvement 3
Create a folder class for WPS that will show files beeing downloaded, hopefully a combination similar to http://www.xn--lrka-loa.com/progressbar/progressbars.html (http://www.xn--lrka-loa.com/progressbar/progressbars.html) and http://www.xn--lrka-loa.com/Progress.html (http://www.xn--lrka-loa.com/Progress.html)
What do you think?!
//Jan-Erik
I like how you're thinking Jep. I still think a PM-GUI app would be easier, but a nice WPS class like you have suggested would be pretty cool as well.
Hmm. The above points up major differences in philosophy on which I muse now
and then. It's not just the ancient GUI / text debate, it's more of a "good
enough" versus "WAY more features than necessary, so many that basic function
is lost", and touches on every aspect of why I so greatly prefer OS/2. I'll
try to limit focus here to just ctorrent.
Volker Ehlert, along with I presume others, for their own probably essentially
geeky reasons, have given us a simple command-line tool that does everything
necessary to download a torrent. I'm grateful for it, as the application is
definitely above my level of interest to pursue, and probably above my
competence to even compile, let alone code. So Ctorrent9 is GOOD ENOUGH for
me, certainly so for the limited use I have for bittorrent.
But I'm NOT DISAPPOINTED with "good enough". I'm a utilitarian whose GOAL is
"good enough". Ctorrent9 does what it's supposed to without needing my
attention. That's GOOD program design.
As I've pointed out previously, the only problem using it is the NUISANCE of
starting torrents, either right after download or resuming after power-off. So
I wrote a little front end for ctorrent9 in REXX which helps with that.
All too often in the computer world, useless eye-candy is tacked on, along
with "features" that I never use. The philosophical divide occurs here: WHY
should -- HOW could -- this be "improved" with graphics when it does its one
function without problem, without annoying me?
My central problem with GUI the way Crimosoft does it is that it FREQUENTLY
demands my attention for some "problem" that I don't care about: a little box
pops up and demands a click when I have "unused icons"; a floppy format
finishes NORMALLY and up pops a dialog box demanding that I acknowledge it,
because to Crimosoft, successfully formatting a floppy IS a big deal --
anyway, the NAGGING is ENDLESS, even after turning off "balloon tips".
All of that just distracts me from the little bit of creativity that I have.
Sure, I have, and frequently still do, just PLAY with the computer as such,
but recent GUIs demand CONSTANT attention, something must always be flashing.
I don't want progress bars flashing while I'm concentrated on this text, for
instance, so I minimize or cover even the Ctorrent monitor window. If I want
to know the status of downloads, I just hit ctrl-esc, and they're in the
window list. The status lines in Ctorrent Monitor are almost incidental: I
used them for information while debugging, then prettied them up a bit.
Without flashing, the WPS, besides the rest of OS/2, just sits there, doing
what it's supposed to. It's BORING, and that was INTENDED. I'm GLAD that the
software engineers spent their time on fundamentals rather than frills. Last
weekend, I showed this system to a fellow who was thoroughly UN-impressed with
the same chunky icons of 1993 just sitting there. He doesn't understand that
OS/2 was written fresh from the ground up, drawing of course on previous
experience which avoided most of the problems while greatly innovating. He
doesn't understand that though OS/2 looks little different from Windows 3.1,
it's actually STILL more revolutionary than anything else Crimosoft wrote. It
was TOO revolutionary: Crimosoft greedily continued peddling a graphical shell
atop single-tasking DOS for at least SEVEN years after OS/2 2.1GA. Incredible.
IF OS/2 development had continued -- but that gets to my point: seems very few
people are able to live with "good enough". Crimosoft in particular keeps
adding eye candy without ANY increase of function. So we in the OS/2 world are
perhaps lucky that it HASN'T been "improved" except for necessary fixes.
Perhaps OS/2's BORING reliability was actually part of the reason it lost in
the "marketplace". With Windows, you always have the impression that it's
doing something complex and exciting, and because boring old reliability was
way down on their list of importance, you soon learn that you do indeed have
to watch it constantly, and even then can't avoid some pretty spectacular
crashes. OS/2 just can't match Windows for that "edge of the cliff" feeling.
-- I'm mostly serious. People LIKE to be scared: just consider how popular are
horror movies, role-playing games, and rollercoasters.
So... Guess I sum up for now by saying that I prefer BORING.
At last, a person with my way of thinking!
I have three computers of friends sitting on my workbench with problems that need rectifying. The owners are beginning to think about OS/2 and the fact that it just continues to work. In one case I loaned a friend a spare computer (with OS/2 and Describe) so he could continue with his degree work. I got it back only after he finished his degree with new computer and a copy of WSEB he'd got from ebay and a request I put the two together. Reason, OS/2 had just worked and continued working when others of his friends had had problems with windows. He does not worry about how it looks, just the fact it works.
About bittorrent, I agree that as long as it works it is enough. Maybe it would be nice if directories could be more easily selected but for my use (downloading various linux distros) it works which is all I ask.
Hello,
I agree with you that flashing eye candy is a distraction and that it doesn't make the app useful. Command line tools contain the core functionality and they provide us with the features we need, no question about it.
You wrote a rexx script for ctorrent9 that we have tried and many of us use over and over again?!
So why did you do that, and why do we use it?
Perhaps because it add some useful feature not available in ctorrent itself?
What feature/functionality was the goal and why do we write additions and e.g. rexx scripts in general for various tasks?
It's not because it add another layer on top of the command line app, it's because we can use it without bothering about configuration here, parameters there etc. it takes care about those things for us and show us the relevant information, exactly how it should work.
I write scripts myself to fill in the gaps that some software or configurations may have, while at other times just to make it easier to handle certain tasks that I want it for.
The idea with the download folder is to create a common download manager to attach e.g. a ctorrent plugin as the bittorrent engine, "wget" or "cURL" for http and ftp, "mms" for multimedia streams etc. and the whole system could use that. We'll have to write new plugins as new download techniques emerge, but not whole apps, and have one common way to deal with downloads. We can write rexx scripts to fetch the files using the download manager, software developers won't have to write/port their own versions of download engines etc. but rather use what others wrote once thus save several man hours in projects that do almost the same.
The second part is how to present the files beeing downloaded, and that's where the wps is so
handy, we'd get a neat, compact, unified, native way to show files. I often start and keep more than
10 bittorrents at once but want all the info in one view, preferably as prograssbars, but sometimes
want more detailed info. Research in the area mention that it's harder and take longer to get an
overview with numerical presentation of data than a progressbar, but is less accurate, provided that
accuracy is what the user want. VIO or GUI doesn't really matter, both can show the same information
(progressbars, numerical etc.), but pehaps in slightly different ways. The VIO display can also be
used on other systems (OSes) with no to little modification and appeal to many. How about the power that the wps offer, not for eye candy, "just because we can" as in some OSes, but because wps-folders provide the OS/2-eCS way of doing things? It won't hurt if it's useful and reveal ways to be productive.
//Jan-Erik
.. Without delving into an argument, simply put, the CMD app does not provide ENOUGH functionality. If it did, you wouldn't need a REXX script and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Now, this also plays into my "is OS/2 even capable of rendering a GUI application natively" train of thought because I've yet to see a native PM-GUI application that was halfway attractive or well laid out. The best looking OS2-GUI apps are using some sort of windowing abstraction kit. Can we make a SIMPLE (emphasis on the SIMPLE) GUI app to supplement the shortcomings of only having a CMD bittorrent client?
Here is a SIMPLE GUI client that doesn't (oh my dear god no!) pop up anything other than confirm/deny on operations. Would this do?
(http://pingpong-abc.sourceforge.net/screenshot_3.1.png)
Looks pretty much like my Azureus 2.5.0.4 "hack" Christian mentioned on the first page.
Here you find a picture (more pictures using different Java "Look and Feels") are available at the link (remove the filename.
The image shows the german text on labels, menu,.. but you can change the language at the configuration dialog:
http://www.juergen-ulbts.de/Sonstiges/Java/AzureusSWTSwing/Azureus2504_on_eCS20_02_using_SWTSwing_2007-08-01.jpg
It should be possible to create a simple GUI for ctorrent using WDSibyl (Borland Delphi like IDE):
http://www.wdsibyl.org/
Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.07.08, 21:35:44
.. Without delving into an argument, simply put, the CMD app does not provide ENOUGH functionality. If it did, you wouldn't need a REXX script and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Now, this also plays into my "is OS/2 even capable of rendering a GUI application natively" train of thought because I've yet to see a native PM-GUI application that was halfway attractive or well laid out. The best looking OS2-GUI apps are using some sort of windowing abstraction kit. Can we make a SIMPLE (emphasis on the SIMPLE) GUI app to supplement the shortcomings of only having a CMD bittorrent client?
The key is, maybe it does... think about the parts of OS/2 that are REXX driven (or the other addons) because the back end stuff is "functional" enough - but just needs a little help?
;)
To jep: no, THE KEY is that ctorrent9 doesn't provide the convenience that I
want in the way that I want it. But the basic function is there. It's an
observable fact that Linux types (from which ctorrent was ported) are fond of
typing, so from their perspective, it's a FINE tool, and I agree. I also like
Dink's Z text mode MP3 player, but for some reason, he didn't implement
scheduled streaming and recording, so I wrote a front-end for it too (TIME4Z12
on Hobbes). I don't exactly regard being able to fairly easily customize the
system (OS/2 with REXX and ctorrent9) for my simple tastes as a drawback. It's
rather in line with what we were promised in the late '80s of amateurs
assembling programs from building blocks furnished by experts. REXX is the
glue that allows such assembling. As I've said elsewhere, REXX is OS/2's best
hidden feature.
To put it in perspective: all of XP doesn't provide the convenience that I
want in the way that I want it; items that I've taken for granted in OS/2
since 2.1GA (my first experience), real time-slice pre-emptive multitasking,
long file names, Installable File Systems including a High Performance File
System that broke the 2G FAT barrier, actual objects on the desktop not merely
shortcuts... It's only fast hardware that makes XP at all usable, because it's
actually HORRIBLE technically.
(Linux is MUCH better technically than Windows, but I'm never going to LIKE
its command line tools such as the vi editor the way I've liked many DOS
programs.)
OS/2 is an operating system for PERSONAL COMPUTERS, not an imitation of Unix
mixed with Apple's ideas and some daffy "original" innovations such as the
talking dog.
Er, my previous may merely expand on RobertM's comment, and is maybe directed more to Saijin_Naib as to missing functionality, and my comment to him is: I can't bear to put up with the ton of CRAP that comes with XP in order to have a pretty GUI bittorrent client. I'm not saying NICE GUI apps aren't possible, but the market always drives to an excess of "features" that don't increase function. For an excellent PM-GUI app, look to PMView 2000, best viewer I've come across on any OS, even though has a few points that annoy me.
And, I don't believe there's any ARGUMENT here. Sorry if that comes over in my rants against Windows.
A point I should have made is that I understand fairly well why various decisions and strategies were made in Linux and OS/2, but Windows... is pretty literally a software Frankenstein's monster, except that after the mysterious split with IBM, Crimosoft became absolutely rabid about keeping anything connected with OS/2 out of their products, and it's evident in the implementation of bizarre alternate strategies.
And yet, it [XP] works brilliantly for me in every situation, and at my whim, requiring nearly no effort on my part what-so-ever. To each his own, that is all.
Robert, you are right, perhaps CTORRENT does provide the core functionality, but the interaction with the program is severly limited and rather poor. Its like KMP and MPLAYER. They are wonderful apps, can play damned near anything, but I'll be damned if I'm going to type a Doctorate Thesis's worth of a string to get things how I want it. Give me a GUI any day over a 1000 word CMD string needing app. Come on, we don't have monochrome 80x25 monitors anymore, lets move past the CMD only era, its very much passe.
Hi Saijin,
As someone else pointed out (which will hopefully become a reality someday) a set of REXX callable entry points (DLL) would make things lots easier in many respects...
The thing I like about such commandline tools (especially with callable DLLs - REXX or otherwise) is that people are not limited to any one interface - or can choose nothing more than the text one if they are adverse to GUIs.
Our problems are... no DLL (yet?), and not enough people with time to write a GUI regardless.
As for "a 1000 word CMD string needing app" - once the cTorrent9.cmd file is set up properly, there isnt a need for anything except adding it to the browser (simple program select and checkbox click) - I even provided line by line insrtuctions on how to edit the CMD file, and how to set it up to work with the browser (someplace on the forums) - and others have made monitoring scripts and more for it making it even more "robust"). And restarting a torrent is as easy as drag-n-drop... or even easier by doing a simple file association on a cTorrent icon. Create an icon for the CMD file (not the executable), set it's association to "*torrent", "*.torrent", "*.*.torrent" etc and you are done... after that, simply double-clicking on a Torrent will restart it.
Drag-N-Drop... double-click... click on a torrent in the browser... very simple either way. The fact that it is commandline is irrelevant to it's ease. Commandline doesnt necessarily equate with difficult to use - definitely not in this case.
-Robert
Quote from: RobertM on 2008.07.14, 05:44:26
The thing I like about such commandline tools (especially with callable DLLs - REXX or otherwise) is that people are not limited to any one interface - or can choose nothing more than the text one if they are adverse to GUIs.
There's some who can't see the forest for the trees: we should be lucky to have a torrent client, period, GUI or no GUI. Personally, I see nothing wrong with using a CLI interface-it's a lot less resources used on something that basically functions as window dressing (literally). I use a lot of CLI-based programs with a good degree of satisfaction and success.
Now I must go try that program for myself. I don't do a lot of torrent-based downloads (I've got enough junk laying around as it is!), but this might be a good one to fire up.
--Sean
P.S. I know, I'm a few months late replying, but after my car accident, I'm doing things slower than I normally would.