Quote from: isycoed on 2008.09.01, 17:15:48
The current release is FP3
Regards
Derrick Price
So, how long ago was this; and, just how does it match up with the latest release of
Lotus Symphony.
Quote
Lotus Symphony
Be Free. Work Smart.
Office productivity software that is intuitive, easy to use and provided at no charge.
http://symphony.lotus.com/software/lotus/symphony/home.nsf/home
I remember my father always repeating something he learnt during a stint with the Medical Corps of the US Armed Forces; and, that was - One must always come up with the "e-a-s-i-e-s-t" and "q-u-i-c-k-e-s-t" ways when having to deal with certain situations. So, in a world of standardized office productivity suites why not convert all the Lotus 1-2-3 Files if they do exist and move on to the
"modernized playground equipment" that is IBM Lotus Symphony. ???
Besides, it would be neat (borrowing a phrase from my good friend -
BigWarpGuy) if IBM Lotus Symphony 1.1 can run on OS/2-eCS 2.0. ;D 8) ;D
And, this time on the "
m-o-d-e-r-n-i-z-e-d p-l-a-y-g-r-o-u-n-d-s" around the world it is going to be all about the "
s-o-n-g" (Lotus Symphony1-2-3) ;D and not the "
s-i-n-g-e-r". 8)
Kindest regards,
SAB
Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.09.01, 18:40:51
Quote from: isycoed on 2008.09.01, 17:15:48
The current release is FP3
Quote
So, how long ago was this; and, just how does it match up with the latest release of
Lotus Symphony.
It was 1943 when fish still rode bicycles, which offers about as much help with your question, as your reply to the OP.
Quote
So, in a world of standardized office productivity suites why not convert all the Lotus 1-2-3 Files if they do exist and move on to the "modernized playground equipment" that is IBM Lotus Symphony. ???
Using your fathers analogy, he probably would also recommend that the OP move to XP or Vista, since while Symphony runs just fine on those OS's, TTBOMK, no one has been able to get Symphony to run reliably on OS/2 or eCS using Odin or IRT.
Obiwan, I have never seen your specific problem come up before, and couldn't find a reference to it in the OS/2 Lotus NG. If Ivan's suggestion does not help, check your x:\LOTUSW4\COMPNENT directory to be certain that LTUIR22.DLL is indeed there. Then check LIBPATH to be sure that all of the Lotus statements are there, and specifically x:\LOTUSW4\COMPNENT. Please let us know if the problem is resolved.
Re:
QuoteUsing your fathers analogy, he probably would also recommend that the OP move to XP or Vista, since while Symphony runs just fine on those OS's, TTBOMK, no one has been able to get Symphony to run reliably on OS/2 or eCS using Odin or IRT.
This is also what was written:
QuoteBesides, it would be neat (borrowing a phrase from my good friend - BigWarpGuy) if IBM Lotus Symphony 1.1 can run on OS/2-eCS 2.0. ;D 8) ;D
And, this time on the "m-o-d-e-r-n-i-z-e-d p-l-a-y-g-r-o-u-n-d-s" around the world it is going to be all about the "s-o-n-g" (Lotus Symphony 1-2-3) ;D and not the "s-i-n-g-e-r". 8)
Did you miss this part?
There are some things to be taken under consideration when participating in an event such as the men's 100 meters race at the summer games and one of these is that the athlete has to be "fleet footed" if he wishes to be awarded that gold medal. ???
Regards
SAB
Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.09.01, 21:37:31
Re:
QuoteUsing your fathers analogy, he probably would also recommend that the OP move to XP or Vista, since while Symphony runs just fine on those OS's, TTBOMK, no one has been able to get Symphony to run reliably on OS/2 or eCS using Odin or IRT.
This is also what was written:
QuoteBesides, it would be neat (borrowing a phrase from my good friend - BigWarpGuy) if IBM Lotus Symphony 1.1 can run on OS/2-eCS 2.0. ;D 8) ;D
And, this time on the "m-o-d-e-r-n-i-z-e-d p-l-a-y-g-r-o-u-n-d-s" around the world it is going to be all about the "s-o-n-g" (Lotus Symphony 1-2-3) ;D and not the "s-i-n-g-e-r". 8)
Did you miss this part?
NO. I directly answered it with "TTBOMK, no one has been able to get Symphony to run reliably on OS/2 or eCS using Odin or IRT" let alone integrating with either. My point remains the same. Additionally, I recommend you stay away from any 100 meter races.
Quote from: obiwan on 2008.09.02, 20:51:37
Thanks, Sander. I like the "can fix" attitude. I never used the old 1-2-3, so I'll take your word for it. I'd rather use 1-2-3 than OO.o.
If sending a zip file, you might need to leave off the .zip extension to get Gmail to accept it.
Not quite sure what you plan on using Lotus 1-2-3 for; but, the question to you is - How do one safeguard against obsolescence from a - Run Your Business On Lotus 1-2-3 scenario... in today's highly competitive world? ???
Best regards,
SAB
SAB, are you seriously back in this thread with THAT??
First, DUDE, it's 2008! No one in their right mind uses a spreadsheet to "run" their business. A spreadsheet is a tool.
Second, DUDE, it's 2008! No technology is safe from obsolescence. If you're REALLY this fixated on obsolescence, what on G-d's green earth are you doing in an OS/2 forum? Do you REALLY view OS/2 or it's eCS distribution as "safe" from obsolescence?
Third, DUDE, it's 2008! In case you've been living under a rock, Microsoft won the war. If we are talking about de facto standards in the business world, the Excel file format (by virtue of it's ubiquity if nothing else) is it. Last time I checked, current versions of Excel do not run under OS/2 natively. That is what filters are all about, and with the latest updates, I have no problem using Lotus 123 for viewing, sharing, or saving files in Excel format. I use spread sheets a LOT as a financial tool. This may astound you, but newer is not always better. There are professionals using 123 simply because they prefer it. That includes the manager of my local Washington Mutual Bank (though the bank is standardized on Excel), and my accountant, both of whom I have shared spreadsheets with. My broker uses Excel. I have no problem converting his files, or editing and returning them to him in Excel format. Furthermore, businesses (especially big business) do not routinely upgrade software just because there is a new version out, unless there is a business advantage to the upgrade. Software is not a hobby in the business world.
Lastly, IMO I can be more productive with Lotus 123 (especially under OS/2), and still prefer it, certainly over the Open Office 2.x equivalent, which I do use under Linux. In Windows, I use Lotus 123 for the reasons stated above, and because I store all of my Lotus documents on that partition, I can work seamlessly on the same document from OS/2 as well.
Re:
Quote from: Sander on 2008.09.03, 09:46:39
SAB, are you seriously back in this thread with THAT??
First, DUDE, it's 2008! No one in their right mind uses a spreadsheet to "run" their business. A spreadsheet is a tool.
Second, DUDE, it's 2008! No technology is safe from obsolescence. If you're REALLY this fixated on obsolescence, what on G-d's green earth are you doing in an OS/2 forum? Do you REALLY view OS/2 or it's eCS distribution as "safe" from obsolescence?
Third, DUDE, it's 2008! In case you've been living under a rock, Microsoft won the war. If we are talking about de facto standards in the business world, the Excel file format (by virtue of it's ubiquity if nothing else) is it. Last time I checked, current versions of Excel do not run under OS/2 natively. That is what filters are all about, and with the latest updates, I have no problem using Lotus 123 for viewing, sharing, or saving files in Excel format. I use spread sheets a LOT as a financial tool. This may astound you, but newer is not always better. There are professionals using 123 simply because they prefer it. That includes the manager of my local Washington Mutual Bank (though the bank is standardized on Excel), and my accountant, both of whom I have shared spreadsheets with. My broker uses Excel. I have no problem converting his files, or editing and returning them to him in Excel format. Furthermore, businesses (especially big business) do not routinely upgrade software just because there is a new version out, unless there is a business advantage to the upgrade. Software is not a hobby in the business world.
Lastly, IMO I can be more productive with Lotus 123 (especially under OS/2), and still prefer it, certainly over the Open Office 2.x equivalent, which I do use under Linux. In Windows, I use Lotus 123 for the reasons stated above, and because I store all of my Lotus documents on that partition, I can work seamlessly on the same document from OS/2 as well.
Hey Sander,
I particularly like this post of yours (and in international cricketing parlance it is a full toss and would be hit over the boundary line for "six").
First of all you are saying
QuoteMicrosoft won the war. If we are talking about de facto standards in the business world, the Excel file format (by virtue of it's ubiquity if nothing else) is it.
Well, yes Vietnam may have won in the conflict during the seventies but how many onalds'Mc Donalds and Coca
Cola signs are up in that country today!!!
Also, you conclusion is that
QuoteMicrosoft won the war
; but, just who were they fighting with at that time; so, in that you are emphasizing that it is now 2008... just what is it that has informed your judgment that 2008 is the same as 1998 when the world now has access to the ISO Standardized Open Document Format (ODF). If I were you with and with that "Gorilla" that is IBM Lotus Symphony
QuoteIBM Lotus® Symphony™ is office productivity software that is intuitive and easy-to-use. Use Lotus Symphony to create, edit and share documents, spreadsheets and presentations. Available at no cost to you, Lotus Symphony office productivity software provides the functionality you need to perform the most common document creation and editing tasks, making it ideal for business and personal projects alike.
http://www-01.ibm.com/software/lotus/products/symphony/
I would be very careful with those Microsoft "Excel" Athletic Shoes that are being worn. ;D
Additionally, what ratio of the "local Washington Mutual Bank's" port-folio is based on "development banking" that you and others with whom you work are not quite aware of the current limitations inherent in the both Excel and Lotus 1-2-3 Spread Sheet Programs! Then some think that the U.S "
housing market fiasco" lies the Bush Administration. ???
Hope that you are having a fun day today. 8)
Regards,
SAB
Additionally,
Re:
QuoteFirst, DUDE, it's 2008! No one in their right mind uses a spreadsheet to "run" their business. A spreadsheet is a tool.
Why
Quoteon G-d's green earth
these "Features and benefits"
QuoteIBM® Lotus® Symphony™ software is a suite of office productivity software for creating, editing, and sharing word processing documents, spreadsheets, and presentations. Designed to handle the majority of tasks that end users perform, Lotus Symphony software supports the OpenDocument Format (ODF) allowing organizations the ability to access, use and maintain their documents over the long term without concern about end of life uncertainties or ongoing software licensing and royalty fees. By using applications that support ODF, customers are not locked into one particular vendor for their productivity tools. ODF helps provide interoperability and flexibility.
* IBM® Lotus® Symphony™ is available at no charge, your business can save
potentially hundreds of dollars per user. Extends your current software
investments, with support for Microsoft® Windows® and Office applications, as
well as Linux® and IBM Lotus technology-based applications.
* Import, edit, and save content in Microsoft® Office formats or export those
documents to ODF for sharing with ODF-compliant applications and solutions.
Convert documents, spreadsheets, and presentations types into Adobe® Portable
Document Format (PDF) files.
* Lotus Notes users can create, edit, and share documents, spreadsheets, and
presentations with the integrated version of Lotus Symphony which is built into
the Lotus Notes client user interface.
* Single, tabbed user interface to launch all Lotus Symphony applications and access
all open files. Context sensitive toolbars and editing menus present an intuitive
interface based on the task at hand. Track changes as you edit and revise
spreadsheets and documents.
* Easy to create documents, presentations and spreadsheets with predefined
document templates. Inline spell checking and auto-correction. Support for charts,
tables, drawing objects, and graphics.
* Section 508 compliance - People with disabilities can use IBM® Lotus®
Symphony™, which meets government accessibility requirements and leverages
innovative technologies that improve support.
http://www-01.ibm.com/software/lotus/products/symphony/features.html
were not available in 1998. 8)
And, guess what (with this kind of "music" coming from the OS/2 watering well) who in this "Milky Way" would wish to explore in search of an alternative.
Can't wait for the Serenity Systems "Star Ship 2.0" to arrive with the "modernized
tools" (supplies, replenishments); and, that's the extent of the insanity. ::)
Regards,
SAB
SAB, your replies are hilarious, only not in a good way. I suspect you are quite young, and unaware of the realities of the subject matter you are attempting to address. You obviously have no idea how uninformed and clueless your analogies are, let alone your misuse of grammar and the English language. I feel like I am having a battle of wits with an unarmed person (or Tim Martin), and at this point, frankly it's pointless. I think your last 2 replies speaks volumes, and I will let them stand on their own merits, or more notably, their lack thereof.
P.S. Clearly you are also completely unaware that Lotus Symphony is merely Open Office 2.x with extra fonts and a little IBM window dressing.
Re:
Quote from: Sander on 2008.09.03, 19:00:22
SAB, your reply is hilarious, only not in a good way. I suspect you are quite young, and unaware of the realities of the subject matter you are attempting to address. You obviously have no idea how uninformed and clueless your analogies are, let alone your misuse of grammar and the English language. I feel like I am having a battle of wits with an unarmed person (or Tim Martin), and at this point, frankly it's pointless. I think your last 2 replies speaks volumes, and I will let it stand on it's own merits, or lack thereof.
P.S. Clearly you are also unaware that Lotus Symphony is merely Open Office 2.x with extra fonts and a little IBM window dressing.
Hi Sander,
Well; firstly, as for the "misuse of grammar and the English language..." what else can one expect from one who has flunked out of college. 8) . Secondly, a certain primary school that I attended during my formative years had the words "Education Is The Best Investment"; so, I am wondering if this is the weaponless but witty character (who took these words to heart) that you are up against. ;D
Surely, the U.S. National Debt speaks volumes if this is the context within which we are now speaking.
With particular reference to
QuoteClearly you are also unaware that Lotus Symphony is merely Open Office 2.x with extra fonts and a little IBM window dressing.
Are you quite certain that you have "tasted" the fresh Blue "ICING (filling, cream....) On The Cake" (the ISO Approved Open Document Format (ODF) Standards) support with which Symphony is dressed. ;)
Regards,
SAB
Sander.
This is an International forum.
A significant portion of the people that read and post here, have English as a second language.
A lot of them feel reluctant to post because of this and limit themselves to 'desperation situations' only, probably then thinking that they will do a poor job at best... though I think that they do fine.
You just made a lot of these people feel like crap, and their posts, unwelcome.
I cannot speak for everybody here, but I can make room for anyone that's trying. And if I have to put a little effort anywhere, it would be my pleasure to spend it trying to understand them, and consider it time well spent.
And if you don't want to read a certain post, or respond to it, then... you control your hand... don't you?
Hi Ben,
That comment that may would have (must have been) directed to "Sander" (and, to borrow a favorite word from our good friend "BWG") - "NEAT" and I am quite sure that a person of your character would/could not quite easily be thrown "off-topic"; but, then again there could very well be persons with a "status quo" to preserve hence the "tirade" is understandably expected; so, in as much as Hurricane Gustav (OOXML) was no Hurricane Katrina (Excel) hitting the New Orleans (ODF/Symphony-OOo...) shorelines then who knows what the expected "Hurricane Forces originating out of Redmond Vortex would bring. ::)
BTW, has anyone seen that IBMShow vehicle that was once owned by "ModZilla" or was it (with all those Lotus 1-2-3 Compatible machines) torn apart by Hurricane Gustav (OOXML) Forces. Now, we may have lost some (museum bound) equipment that could have helped in addressing these "Lotus 1-2-3 1.7.1 Errors"!!! :(
Kindest regards,
SAB
Quote from: Ben on 2008.09.03, 20:20:27
Sander.
This is an International forum.
A significant portion of the people that read and post here, have English as a second language.
Ben,
Given the content and context of his "examples" (as incoherent as they were), that was clearly not the case. Either that or he was trying awfully hard to mislead and indicate otherwise.
Quote
I cannot speak for everybody here, but I can make room for anyone that's trying. And if I have to put a little effort anywhere, it would be my pleasure to spend it trying to understand them, and consider it time well spent.
Well, I sincerely believe that in fact, you do not speak for everyone here. You can go back 15 years (google and the OS/2 World archives are your friends) and not find a single example on Usenet or elsewhere in which I did otherwise. A great many of those conversations were with "English as a second language" folks. I think if you go back through this thread from the beginning, you may come to a different conclusion. If not, well that's OK too. :-)
This is EXACTLY why I left Usenet and why I post so little here these days. Honest attempts to actually contribute to a thread by helping someone solve a posted OS/2 problem are diluted by a Tim Martin type who will then hijack the thread for the sake of their own moronic ego, or point out the obsolescence of OS/2 and offer a Windows (sub Mac or Linux) product as the solution, when in fact there is an excellent OS/2 solution available.
If I have drawn any conclusion from this thread, sadly it is that my time and effort is better spent in other pursuits. I won't make that mistake again. To be clear, this is my last post.
Hi Sander,
You have said inter alia:
QuoteThis is EXACTLY why I left Usenet and why I post so little here these days. Honest attempts to actually contribute to a thread by helping someone solve a posted OS/2 problem is diluted by a Tim Martin type who will then hijack the thread for the sake of their own moronic ego, or point out the obsolescence of OS/2 and offer a Windows (sub Mac or Linux) product as the solution, when in fact there is an excellent OS/2 solution available.
If I have drawn any conclusion from this thread, sadly it is that my time and effort is better spent in other pursuits. I won't make that mistake again.
Well, to one's mind you speak like someone with a "bitter taste" left in your mouth from that "Usenet" experience. In any case, in as much as you may now prefer to "spend your time being involved in other pursuits" rather that participating in meaningful discussions on this forum you could have at least do the honors of gracing this august forum with an answer to the question regarding the volume of the port folio (
which attracts international evaluation considerations) of the bank with which you and others (the expert managers that you have talked about) work; and, explain how easy it is to successfully complete these tasks with either "Excel" or "Lotus 1-2-3". 8)
Best regards,
SAB.
Quote from: Sander on 2008.09.03, 22:40:56
If I have drawn any conclusion from this thread, sadly it is that my time and effort is better spent in other pursuits. I won't make that mistake again. To be clear, this is my last post.
Another one who abandoned this forum.
So, obiwan had some troubles and he asked for help. Then, after a while, this thread has been hijacked (just like many other ones here). Luckily obiwan just didn't care too much about this, but in other recent threads the OP never got an answer to her/his trouble(s) and/or question(s), just because her/his thread was turned into some more or less meaningful debate (often not too much related, or - even worse - totally unrelated to what (s)he was experiencing and reporting).
As for me, I wish Sander's abandon be the last one (and I'd like he could change his mind and come back to this forum). OS/2 community is too small to afford such a shrinking just because one jumps in and, showing little care for the theme being discussed in the thread, he diverts it into whatever he likes.
[Sander, just to be clear: this is definitely NOT against you, I hope you can come back to us whenever you feel like. Don't give up just because of one or a few].
Just my opinion. Thank you for your time.
Quote from: The Blue Warper on 2008.09.08, 00:56:28
Quote from: Sander on 2008.09.03, 22:40:56
If I have drawn any conclusion from this thread, sadly it is that my time and effort is better spent in other pursuits. I won't make that mistake again. To be clear, this is my last post.
[...]
As for me, I wish Sander's abandon be the last one (and I'd like he could change his mind and come back to this forum). OS/2 community is too small to afford such a shrinking
[...]
From my perspective, if the OS/2 "community" is shrinking, it is due to that elitism that prevails in the mindset of many individuals. For instance, while browsing the Web sometimes one can come about a certain comment reflecting the above in reinforcing that
status quo within that pseudo community. I have read narrow and self-defeating (in the sense of reflecting a convenient status of ignorance) arguments like –paraphrasing-- "
When us [OS/2] users are on the web, it is the equivalent of driving a Rolls Royce, (whereas others drive commoners vehicles)." Or some babbling of the form of, "
The pool of OS/2 users posses elite genes."
The important issue is to prolong the viability of the OS/2 and not to become extinct through the sheer force of that silly elitist inertia that simply amounts to a dying extended family that can no longer interbreed –as suggested by my friend BenDragon in certain other post.
Evidently, I welcome different/new/alternative genes into the current pool --for those carry the potential to mutate/alter the existing "elite" gene pool, hence providing the likely benefit to adapt the OS/2 to modern technology infrastructures --or provide a sense of future direction and/or alternative viewpoints.
If one of those persons who carry those elite genes regard a given thread/post as substandard, all s/he has to do is ignore it rather than display the dismay typical of the "nobility." By the way, English is my third language, with Náhuatl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahuatl) being my first and Spanish my second (this latter not of my free will). Hence I apologize to the OS/2 nobility if I do not make sense :D.
Quote from: The Blue Warper on 2008.09.08, 00:56:28
Just my opinion. Thank you for your time.
Ditto...
As I've remarked before El Vato, you speak/write quite beautifully and obviously, the remarks were not aimed at you. I wondered about the origins of your name here and on your IT consulting site, but I guess now I know the answer. The central-american languages seem quite beautiful and are certainly unique. Sadly I only know english, spanish, and a bit of Chinese.
I could not have done better (although most of my formative years were spent reading, writing and speaking the English Language)...
Re:
Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.09.08, 04:26:06
As I've remarked before El Vato, you speak/write quite beautifully and obviously, the remarks were not aimed at you. I wondered about the origins of your name here and on your IT consulting site, but I guess now I know the answer. The central-american languages seem quite beautiful and are certainly unique. Sadly I only know english, spanish, and a bit of Chinese.
Having being brought up between the rivers of the Guianas I have taken a few moments to Google and came across the following links:
Quote
http://guianas.wikispaces.com/Documentation
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_work.asp?id=10013
Both languages are very poorly documented, in fact, we knowpractically nothing about the language of the Wapishana, and the mostdetailed work on Wayana was carried out by the Dutchexplorer/anthropologist C.H. de Goeje at the beginning of thetwentieth century, whose work has left us with a summary grammaticalsketch of the language.The secondary aim of the proposed research is to chart and describethe culturally-dependent conceptualization patterns that obtain inthese languages such as classificatory patterns in the locative anddirectional postpositions, evidentiality patterns, the functions andbehaviour of what have been termed "truth and knowledge" markers suchas have been described for related languages, for example, thefrustrative, assertive, and affective markers. In writing theproposed grammars the researchers will pay special attention to suchspecific cognitive features of these languages with an aim tocreating an over-arching scheme of how these features function in thelanguages of the region.
http://www.narcis.info/research/RecordID/OND1308969/Language/en/;jsessionid=1t8lzmq04fbvm
thus, should I say/add - (having "paddled" through the some of the languages streams of the Americas and REXX being so related to the English Language)... why should one even bother with the "
Sander" (only proper/perfect English spoken here)
Class and loose focus of the subject matter (
Lotus 1-2-3 1.7.1 Errors) at hand while it is most certain that the none English speaking South American natives will also understand that - "None Is Perfect - No Not One"!
Ghee whiz! Like I can say "How was/is your week-end" in Russian (Каким образом свои выходные) - I wish I knew how to say it too in the languages of the (Arrows and Bow-less) Mawayana (Arawakan group); the Trio; Wayana; Katwena; and Waiwai. Also, one wonders what "l-a-n-g-u-a-g-e-s" the Native Americans spoke when the Founding Fathers landed at the "Rock"! 8)
Kindest regards,
SAB
Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.09.08, 04:26:06
[...] the remarks were not aimed at you.
[...]
Saijin_Naib,
I think you misunderstood me. I was referring to the veiled criticism leveled at SAB --I for one do not like to play the victim and become the target of implicit attacks. As a matter of fact, I could not care less about those.
My point was in emphasizing, with the aim to appreciate rather than scorn, what Albert Camus, the French philosopher, referred to as the
Absurd factor, within the context of Existentialism, that I find in the apparently irrelevant posts from my friend SAB.
Yes, those break the pattern of those others made by the purported "elite" and ...
ahem, pedantic. Notwithstanding, and modifying a phrase to suit the occasion: "
If nothing had any meaning, [the "elite" or conservatives] would be right [in rejecting others' contributions]. But there is something that still has a meaning [in others' contributions]." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Camus) But one has to look sideways to find it. Something that the
status quo finds difficult to do due to their inertial blinders --it is not impossible, though, and could lower the barriers for the adoption of the OS/2 outside their narrow turf. That's all...
By the way, I am not from Central America ;) but thanks for your appreciative comments.
Sander and The Blue Warper have it right, except that to be accurate, obiwan
didn't get any help here, he solved it himself.
Ben, I'll make efforts for all non-English types, have a German and a French
dictionary within reach, but I can rarely squeeze much sense out of what
saborion2 puts into the mix; the specific instance is clear as Sander says.
Bringing in the US National debt? When I see multi-syllabic English words, I'm
entitled, in an "elitist" and "pedantic" way, to assume that the writer uses
them with confidence, and that a cogent thought is to be found in them.
Then the thread dissolved into off-topic "Mutual Admiration Society" in an
increasingly frequent three or four player hijacking.
I'm all for people having fun here ── all boards have a core of regulars who
banter back and forth with their meaning inscrutable to newcomers ── BUT, when
one can't even snipe at Crimosoft here without ACTIVE opposition... Hmm.
Re:
Quote from: ddan on 2008.09.08, 09:59:35
Sander and The Blue Warper have it right, except that to be accurate, obiwan
didn't get any help here, he solved it himself.
Ben, I'll make efforts for all non-English types, have a German and a French
dictionary within reach, but I can rarely squeeze much sense out of what
saborion2 puts into the mix; the specific instance is clear as Sander says.
Bringing in the US National debt? When I see multi-syllabic English words, I'm
entitled, in an "elitist" and "pedantic" way, to assume that the writer uses
them with confidence, and that a cogent thought is to be found in them.
Then the thread dissolved into off-topic "Mutual Admiration Society" in an
increasingly frequent three or four player hijacking.
I'm all for people having fun here ── all boards have a core of regulars who
banter back and forth with their meaning inscrutable to newcomers ── BUT, when
one can't even snipe at Crimosoft here without ACTIVE opposition... Hmm.
Hey ddan,
You are right in your thinking that
QuoteSander... have it right, except that to be accurate, obiwan didn't get any help here, he solved it himself
so, too (if I remember the story about "SPARTACUS" that I was once reminded of by an IT Executive during a seminar that I attended:
Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartacus
Having spent all those earlier years of my life in a certain region of South America; and, while I may not have been quite familiar with the U.S. National Debt... I quite certainly was (like the majority of the people) familiar with the "national debt" (and the social and economic consequences) of the country we were all growing up in and that is the degree of consciousness; so, in any case what difference does it make since they all border on "n-u-m-b-e-r-s"; and, again "ddan" (like the story about Spartacus) I can't seem to be able to account for period when I should have been attending "English Classes" but I can still remember a few of the principles I was exposed to during the engineering technology classes I attended in various parts of the world (I will tell you what I did when I did not understand a certain topic; I re-read and re-read until I got the drift); therefore, pardon any lack of expertise on my part when it comes to the "English" comprehension.
Like, "Sander"... it is quite understandable if you have a "status quo" to preserve in your ("elitist" and "pedantic" way"s") so much so that you found yourself compelled to be so identified. And, like the
El Vato(s) of this forum; and, for my own part - that same "Spirit of Evolution" that goaded Spartacus will continue to be the guiding light to take the nation through the darkness brought about by the (Sander et al-like Turf's) Fannie Mae(s) and Freddie Mac(s)" (like the National Debt)
Quote
Treasury Acts to Shore Up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/washington/14fannie.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
It's called - "The Development Continuum" and that is the "Evolutionary Spirit" of the "Sparta Group" (non-academic group) that you may be up against.
And, now we would about the "Lotus 1-2-3 1.7.1 Errors" and not the "English Grammar". ???
Hope you are having a fun day today. 8)
Regards,
SAB
Saborion2 - What are you blathering on about now?
It is getting to a state where, if I see any mention of you name as the latest post I don't bother looking any more. My understanding was that when someone asks a question we should try and help - NOT waffle on in an incomprehensible way.
I also fail to see what errors in Lotus 1-2-3 on OS/2 has to do with the mortgage market in the US.
Re:
Quote from: ivan on 2008.09.08, 19:25:53
Saborion2 - What are you blathering on about now?
It is getting to a state where, if I see any mention of you name as the latest post I don't bother looking any more. My understanding was that when someone asks a question we should try and help - NOT waffle on in an incomprehensible way.
I also fail to see what errors in Lotus 1-2-3 on OS/2 has to do with the mortgage market in the US.
Hey ivan,
Should I dare say "here we go again" or not? ???
Secondly, should I ask what was the compulsion for you to respond to my post even in the same breath you are claiming that it is pointless reading them. How about if you just avoid reading them altogether.
Just in case you are forgetting before the "Sander" staged tirade began this is was was said:
Quote
SAB, are you seriously back in this thread with THAT??
First, DUDE, it's 2008! No one in their right mind uses a spreadsheet to "run" their business. A spreadsheet is a tool.
Second, DUDE, it's 2008! No technology is safe from obsolescence. If you're REALLY this fixated on obsolescence, what on G-d's green earth are you doing in an OS/2 forum? Do you REALLY view OS/2 or it's eCS distribution as "safe" from obsolescence?
Third, DUDE, it's 2008! In case you've been living under a rock, Microsoft won the war. If we are talking about de facto standards in the business world, the Excel file format (by virtue of it's ubiquity if nothing else) is it. Last time I checked, current versions of Excel do not run under OS/2 natively. That is what filters are all about, and with the latest updates, I have no problem using Lotus 123 for viewing, sharing, or saving files in Excel format. I use spread sheets a LOT as a financial tool. This may astound you, but newer is not always better. There are professionals using 123 simply because they prefer it. That includes the manager of my local Washington Mutual Bank (though the bank is standardized on Excel), and my accountant, both of whom I have shared spreadsheets with. My broker uses Excel....
Well, for your (as well and Sander's) kind information I for one prefer not to recommend that a company's future be "pawned" to the Redmondians and if for any reason it is believed that the "mask" that you are wearing would allow you to slip by the modernized "IBM Lotus Symphony Shield" then think again; and, if you cannot fathom the need for working modernized analytical "tools" (
not faulty ones) for use in the (troubled) "mortgage market in the US" then that is no fault of mine (or others) that recognize the values of freedom of choice that come with "Open Standards" upon which IBM's Lotus Symphony is built (the Development Continuum) (of which neither Lotus 1-2-3 nor Excel is not) and the "Evolutionary Spirit" of eCS.
Nice try though; but, try again guys (or learned gentlemen) and please keep the focus on the "message" (topic) and not on the messenger (person addressing the topic)!
Regards,
SAB
Does anyone here discern the LEAST apology or regret from saborion2 for an
actual offense with consequence for Sander and rest of OS/2ers here? No, just
the opposite, a happy attitude as he turns attention to others.
Saborion2, if you've ANY decency, post an apology asking Sander to return.
Rather than leaving too, I have a finesse to suggest to the reasonable here,
hardly new, and that's to not respond to off-topic posts.
And before the notion is turned on ME, I apologize for past and future ranting
about the evil which is Crimosoft, though maintain that it's necessary for
contrast, I can't ignore THEM or do much more than exercise what I mistake for
wit.
At least I never end a post with transparently phony "best regards".
If not clear, the "National Debt" bit is something saborion2 threw in at post #19:
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg8019/#msg8019
Suppose he's forgotten even his own rambling. That was the last straw for me.
Quote from: Ben on 2008.09.03, 20:20:27
Sander.
This is an International forum.
A significant portion of the people that read and post here, have English as a second language.
A lot of them feel reluctant to post because of this and limit themselves to 'desperation situations' only, probably then thinking that they will do a poor job at best... though I think that they do fine.
You just made a lot of these people feel like crap, and their posts, unwelcome.
Hi Ben,
I think you are mistaking Sander's intent, which I believe was directed at SAB's lack of anything contextual to the conversation, and odd tangents of total irrelevance, instead of Sander's comments being directed at those who do not speak English natively. I've been around the OS/2 UGs for over a decade and a half, and Sander has always been helpful, never belittling anyone for a not-quite-complete grasp of English because it is not their native language.
I think, like others, he is just getting frustrated by SABs quotes from "who the heck knows where" of items totally irrelevant, such as fighter jets, and posts like the one below "Having being brought up between the rivers of the Guianas I have taken a few moments to Google and came across the following links..." (which is related to someone's problems with 1-2-3 how?) and so on.
Not just is it cluttering our forum, but making it look like we all are... well, I choose not to use any of the words that first pop into my mind (and cant think of a polite one).
Sadly, pop into any thread SAB has been involved on and you find half-page long posts totally irrelevant to the topic - and often barely vaguely relevant to anything computer related (much less OS/2).
I'm curious how many new (and old) forum members we turn away because answers to questions are obfuscated under a dearth of unrelated nonsense. I for one have been spending less and less time on these forums solely because of his nonsense going on mostly unchecked.
At least Tim Martin's posts had some logic to them (even if it was a very twisted logic based on numerous fallacies) and was on topic to the discussion at hand. His (Tim's) posts could be debated, pulled apart, debunked, whatever.
Quote from: RobertM on 2008.09.10, 21:19:01
Quote from: Ben on 2008.09.03, 20:20:27
Sander.
This is an International forum.
A significant portion of the people that read and post here, have English as a second language.
A lot of them feel reluctant to post because of this and limit themselves to 'desperation situations' only, probably then thinking that they will do a poor job at best... though I think that they do fine.
You just made a lot of these people feel like crap, and their posts, unwelcome.
Hi Ben,
I think you are mistaking Sander's intent, which I believe was directed at SAB's lack of anything contextual to the conversation, and odd tangents of total irrelevance, instead of Sander's comments being directed at those who do not speak English natively. I've been around the OS/2 UGs for over a decade and a half, and Sander has always been helpful, never belittling anyone for a not-quite-complete grasp of English because it is not their native language.
I think, like others, he is just getting frustrated by SABs quotes from "who the heck knows where" of items totally irrelevant, such as fighter jets, and posts like the one below "Having being brought up between the rivers of the Guianas I have taken a few moments to Google and came across the following links..." (which is related to someone's problems with 1-2-3 how?) and so on.
Not just is it cluttering our forum, but making it look like we all are... well, I choose not to use any of the words that first pop into my mind (and cant think of a polite one).
Sadly, pop into any thread SAB has been involved on and you find half-page long posts totally irrelevant to the topic - and often barely vaguely relevant to anything computer related (much less OS/2).
I'm curious how many new (and old) forum members we turn away because answers to questions are obfuscated under a dearth of unrelated nonsense. I for one have been spending less and less time on these forums solely because of his nonsense going on mostly unchecked.
At least Tim Martin's posts had some logic to them (even if it was a very twisted logic based on numerous fallacies) and was on topic to the discussion at hand. His (Tim's) posts could be debated, pulled apart, debunked, whatever.
Just why on this God's Greening Earth (to borrow Sander's phrase...) are you posting your nonsense RobertM? and, As a point of reference here is an extract from a 1998 Lotus Development Corporation communication that I am/was privy to; and, to repeat:
Re:
QuoteConcerning the issues with 1-2-3 that are talked about in the documentation you gave me, most of the issues are related to converting files between older and newer versions of product and converting documents between Lotus and Microsoft. Anytime a file is saved backwards or saved with an older file format than the format the file was created under, such as saving a 1-2-3 , 97 file for Windows 95 into a WK1 format for DOS, then naturally we are expected to loose certain features due to technology and features that are present now that were not present 8 - 10 years ago. Similarly, if we try to convert a file from Lotus into Excel or Excel into Lotus, due to differences in the products not every feature will be converted perfectly with the file filters that are available. Both Lotus and Microsoft create similar spreadsheet programs; however, there are several differences in both programs and these differences will remain to distinguish the products apart. We do try to design conversion filters that will allow as much of the file formats as possible to be exchanged and converted without disrupting the actual file design and format.
In one of your letters you made mention of the @IRR and @ERR functions in the 1-2-3 product. By design the @IRR (notably "absent" in Open Office) will calculate the Internal Rate of Return; where the @ERR is used in conjunction with other formulas, posted was an "ERR" showing an error was received in the calculations. As far as I can see in the program I cannot find an @ERR function that will allow us to calculate an Economic Rate of Return"
[/color]
Like you, I have been around a few places too; and, I am not one to run to "mommy" and "daddy" when I was repeatedly told to stay out of "kitchen" when and if I cannot stand the heat. How about if you (and others who prefer not to read my posts) do the next best thing - just do not read them as you do not have to. 8)
BTW, I thought I had read earlier something which said - "Lotus 1-2-3 1.7.1 Errors (
Fixed) and may not have bothered responding but for your mentioning SAB in your post while I honestly believe that SAB was not the "subject matter" in this thread.
Hope you are having a nice day today.
Regards.
SAB
Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.09.10, 22:03:59
Just why on this God's Greening Earth (to borrow Sander's phrase...) are you posting your nonsense RobertM? and, As a point of reference here is an extract from a 1998 Lotus Development Corporation communication that I am/was privy to; and, to repeat:
Re:
QuoteConcerning IRRELEVANT ISSUES TO THIS THREAD... (SNIP)
[/color]
Like you, I have been around a few places too; and, I am not one to run to "mommy" and "daddy" when I was repeatedly told to stay out of "kitchen" when and if I cannot stand the heat. How about if you (and others who prefer not to read my posts) do the next best thing - just do not read them as you do not have to. 8)
BTW, I thought I had read earlier something which said - "Lotus 1-2-3 1.7.1 Errors (Fixed) and may not have bothered responding but for your mentioning SAB in your post while I honestly believe that SAB was not the "subject matter" in this thread.
Hope you are having a nice day today.
Regards.
SAB
Here is a "short" list of your irrelevant posts in
this thread regarding helping with fixing 1-2-3:
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg8179/#msg8179
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg8168/#msg8168
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg8157/#msg8157
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg8026/#msg8026
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg8023/#msg8023
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg8020/#msg8020
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg8018/#msg8018
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg8015/#msg8015
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg7999/#msg7999
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg7973/#msg7973
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg7970/#msg7970
NONE of which is relevant to the post that started this thread:
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg7950/#msg7950
And finally one relevant contribution from you:
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg7980/#msg7980
So, the tally is 11 irrelevant posts, 1 relevant (from you). Over 1/4 of the posts in this thread are irrelevant nonsense from you. Add in the posts from those seeking some sort of clarification to your meaning (which never comes), or politely (or not so politely) trying to get you to stop, or being egged on by each new post of yours, and it accounts for half of this thread.
There is something I remember someone said some time ago at this forum and some of those words were in relation to what (his "Grand-mother" told him when playing with the other children in the park.); to this, I will hasten to add that I am aware that come November 8th... millions of Americans (including myself) will be making decisions that will impact their livelihoods. Therefore, what may be of "relevance" in terms of "security" (social, economic) et cetera, et cetera to some on this forum may be "irrelevant" to others on this forum also. So, like my goodly pal who remembered what his "Grand-mother" told him when he was young - I would opt to let "Father Time" (if history is any indicator, and it usually is) "which make the opinions/views of some mortals like a grain of sand blowing in the wind or the tides of the seas that come in and go out" reveal what may be of "relevance" to some as their social and economic lives are affected by the use on non-use of "Lotus 1-2-3" (barring the errors, "when the lights come on"; or what happens on t_h_e d_a_r_k s_i_d_e o_f t_h_e m_o_o_n); but, in any case - there always will remain the (it is sincerely believed) "f_r_e_e_d_o_m o_f c_h_o_i_c_e and f_r_e_e_d_o_m o_f s_p_e_e_c_h on t_h_e b_r_i_g_h_t s_i_d_e o_f t_h_e m_o_o_n)!
And, with this I rest my case. 8)
SAB,
Let me clarify then. Continued off topic posts, as deemed such by the Moderators of this forum (not by you or whatever euphemism you spout), will be removed from whatever thread they are in and placed in the "Off Topic Discussions" forum. I will no longer be responding to such posts in the main forum threads. If the efforts to sort out off topic posts becomes excessive, then instead of moving them, they will be summarily deleted.
I believe I have made that sufficiently clear. Feel free to make your off topic posts - in the off topic post category. Anywhere else will result in the actions above.
Robert
Nothing ventured, nothing gained....
Quote
CERN's big collider now in action
http://news.cnet.com/cerns-big-collider-now-in-action/?tag=mncol
It would be neat to learn what Spread Sheet CERN uses. Given the time this project was started it could very well be Lotus 1-2-3 that does not return any errors!! 8)
Very good to know after this "Large Hadron Collider" (LHC) tests all on "God's Greening Earth" will "Live Long And Prosper"! ;D
Re:
QuoteI think, like others, he is just getting frustrated by SABs quotes from "who the heck knows where" of items totally irrelevant, such as fighter jets, and posts like the one below "Having being brought up between the rivers of the Guianas I have taken a few moments to Google and came across the following links..." (which is related to someone's problems with 1-2-3 how?) and so on.
Has any thought been given to the "financial and economic considerations" (and, which company in the world does not use a "Spread Sheet" be it Lotus 1-2-3 or which ever) involved in keeping "airplanes in general" in the air. Does anyone remember - The Concorde! 8)
Also, (taking a sentence from my good friend the BWG..) It would be interesting to know what Spread Sheet the operators of the "CONCORDE" used, how they were able to fix any errors; and, if it ran on OS/2! ::) ::) ::)
Re:
Quote
Who Benefits
Who will benefit with the price of jet fuel at record highs? Of course, the firms that manage the all the mothballed aircraft will benefit. What about Boeing (BA) and Airbus [EADS]? Many traders in the market and several contributors with Seeking Alpha are assuming that the airlines will be postponing their purchases of new aircraft, as they do not need more airplanes. I do not believe this makes sense.
In an article on June 10, 2008, in the Wall Street Journal Scott McCartney points out that it cost $300 to $500 per passenger in the cost of jet fuel as shown in the table below. You can see how the high cost of jet fuel is the largest cost of an airline ticket.
Quote(http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2008/6/19/saupload_wsj.jpg)
http://seekingalpha.com/article/81970-aircraft-suppliers-to-benefit-from-airline-fuel-woes
And, if one is to guess
Quote
Who will benefit with the price of jet fuel at record highs? Of course, (then) the firms that manage the all the mothballed aircraft will benefit.
Also, it would be neat to know if there are any planned changes for the future from the current Spread Sheets they are now using and if these are Microsoft Excel or Lotus 1-2-3 that they are using and if these applications are "up-to-date" ones and they can also run on OS/2-eCS and they all run on the most modern "h-a-r-d-w-a-r-e" available! 8)
Hi All,
I really like this "OFF TOPIC: Lotus 1-2-3 1.7.1 Errors" thread agreed apparently jointly by moderators and it is the gut feeling that some iteration of an OEM's "Spread Sheet" is being employed by all of these world re-known financial institutions that are caught up in the latest of the Wall Street crises (you know how that old adage goes I guess - "Out Of The Frying Pan - Into The Fire") - Please see the attached "CNN News Article":
Quote
Changes rock Wall Street
Published: 9/15/08, 9:00 AM EDT
(CNN) - The venerable Lehman Brothers investment bank said early Monday that it will file for bankruptcy, while Bank of America unveiled plans to buy Merrill Lynch -- two pieces of news that profoundly alter the American financial landscape.
The fast-paced changes capped a roller-coaster Wall Street weekend and threatened to stir up U.S. financial markets already reeling from woes at other major financial firms and mortgage financing titans Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
http://my.att.net/s/editorial.dll?pnum=1&bfromind=7406&eeid=6095488&_sitecat=1181&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=0&ck=&ch=ne&rg=blsadstrgt&_lid=332&_lnm=tg+ne+topnews&ck=
Does anyone see a "Spread Sheet relevance" in this latest world financial crisis and one wonders how many "T-E-C-K-I-E-S" livelihoods would be affected in these financial crises with folks reportedly leaving their offices with "boxes" after cleaning out their "desks"! Question is: Are these the results of "Lotus 1-2-3 1.7.1 et al Errors"??? ::) 8) ::)
Bring It On!
Best regards.
SAB
... and thus the "con" unfolds
... while the sheep munch their grass
... oblivious and carefree
... as their world is systematically de-constructed around them.
... heads firmly in the ground
... arses high in the air in the "ready" position.
Push in just a little bit further and their nice hidey hole becomes their grave.
"Can't happen in my world." & "I'm not listening."
Baa. Baaa. Baaaaaaa!
Genetic stupidity is one thing, but a self-imposed stupidity is hard to find empathy for.
In other words, most people deserve what they get.
The problem is with those that do not deserve it, who get dragged down with the sheep.
To those of you that so choose to turn off your brains and pass over control of your lives to your "betters", I say:
Baaaaaaa!
Saborion2, it is all laid out there for everyone to see... but they'd rather eat their "bread" and watch their "circus'" than get up off their arses and actually partake in the running of their own lives.
While, far be it for me to agree with that monstrous war criminal, Heinz "Henry" Kissinger, I find it hard to disagree with his, (and I paraphrase);
"Those who choose to hand over the running-of-their-own-lives to someone else, are no better than meat upon the table."
Think about that all you sheep out there.
Think about what this means for you and your children.
Nothing has occurred to prevent Fascist takeover from happening again.
They haven't "gone away." And we didn't "get them all"... and not even close.
The only thing that has happened is that you have been conditioned into believing, for no real reason, that it cannot happen now, because this is what you would like to be true. You have been "fattened for the slaughter." You mark my words.
Who do you think Kissinger was referring to? the bums on the street? He meant YOU!
I have heard many ask; Why didn't the pre-WWII Germans see the NAZI insanity coming?
Ask yourself that question, because you are in the exact, same, position. And you are "choosing" to look the other way.
One only has to look out of their window to see the massive changes unfolding around them. These changes are not normal. You are being moved to another, more secure, corral. More secure for them, not for you. All the while you are being stroked by the numbness of TV, fed GMO foods to keep you fat, soft and pliable, while your children are being pumped with Ritalin, prescribed and administered by teachers of such weak character that you couldn't rely on them to take out your garbage.
Do you know the character of those teachers? Do you even know their names? Do you know what your children are being taught? Do you have any say in it? Find it out. It will "knock you flat!"
And it doesn't matter where you live, be it Russia, Germany, France, Australia, Canada, the UK, US, Brazil, Czechoslovakia. The same is going on everywhere. Simultaneously. Ask yourself; "How is that even possible?"
And "Don't worry," all those millions of new cameras are there for those nasty ol' criminals. Pay no attention as it tracks you walking down the street. "It's for your own protection." Ha!.
You cannot convict a criminal using just video evidence. Not even of littering. Look it up.
You have to understand; those that rule us, hate us. They rank us no higher than bugs. Laws that have been passed in the last ten years, in all countries and in the UN, that make this brutally clear. Look it up.
All these changes are connected. They cannot happen with such widespread synchronization, naturally.
To you who choose to remain in La-la Land I say; Baaaaaaa!, for that's all that you have chosen to understand... and it is a choice.
Baaaaaaa!
Always interesting to see how some of the threads tend to get a bit wide when it comes to interpret the thread topic. So here is my little story for the day and it's good one as well, to follow the last thread when it comes to have way too much faith in tools.
Last week the Swedish National Bank raised the interest rate couple of points based on the recommendation from among other SCB (Statistics Sweden is a central government authority for official statistics and other government statistics and in this capacity also has the responsibility for coordinating and supporting the Swedish system for official statistics) and it now turns out that the recommendation was due to a software error... do I need to say that SCB quickly blamed SAS Institute for this little error - they where the ones who made the programming error. Oh, well... why even bother to check the code with models to verify that it actually works. Well, if you want to read a googled page, check this article (http://translate.google.se/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.idg.se%2F2.1085%2F1.178484&sl=sv&tl=en&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8).
You go Ben Dragon ;), How about if we call it a "Tools" (S-p-r-e-a-d_S-h-e-e-t) malfunctions (adjustments) on the G-l-o-b-a-l_F-i-n-a-n-c-i-a-l_M-a-r-k-e-t-s! ??? And, I am curious to know which ones they are using. Do you have any idea?
Re:
QuoteLast week the Swedish National Bank raised the interest rate couple of points based on the recommendation from among other SCB (Statistics Sweden is a central government authority for official statistics and other government statistics and in this capacity also has the responsibility for coordinating and supporting the Swedish system for official statistics) and it now turns out that the recommendation was due to a software error... do I need to say that SCB quickly blamed SAS Institute for this little error - they where the ones who made the programming error.
That was an interesting post "kimhav", thanks. ;) It makes one wonder how many "errors" like these there are around in the world (including those by human which can easily be blamed on the "computer"). ???
Kindest regards,
SAB
Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.09.15, 20:40:05
You go Ben Dragon ;),
How about if we call it a "Tools" (S-p-r-e-a-d_S-h-e-e-t) malfunctions (adjustments) on the G-l-o-b-a-l_F-i-n-a-n-c-i-a-l_M-a-r-k-e-t-s! ??? And, I am curious to know which ones they are using. Do you have any idea?
Short answer: No.
Long answer:
It's easy to get lost in the minutia and spend your life trying to get something sensible from the data, only to have the point become moot just prior to solution. Then apocatastasis occurs and you're back to where you started, none the better for your efforts, and feeling more than a little bit frustrated.
Burn-out is the inevitable outcome. Then you throw up your hands resignation... as per
design.
To understand the whole, one must take a step back to discern the information in the data. Then the picture solidifies as you look at the broad strokes.
One such stroke begins post WWII and ends, unfinished, where we are today.
Look at our history, culturally, politically, sexually, economically, and, most important, militarily. DO NOT USE MODERN METHODS OF PROPAGANDA AS INFORMATION. it is not.
Since "OFF TOPIC:" is now ON topic, I'll take a little leeway to provide a some background information to flesh out some of my previous post for those few who can still think, and still have their survival instinct... intact and working.
I've mentioned Bertrand Russell a few times before.
Undoubtedly few, or none, here has heard of him. Hence it is easy to cast his words aside as coming from someone of insignificance.
Allow me the opportunity to change that and give your mind a clear picture of how high this
inbred psychopath was held in the esteem of some of the greatest names you have ever heard of, all contemporaries, and good buddies of, Russell.
Read my brief biography of him
here (http://www.self-wrighting.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=149&Itemid=66), then do a quick search of this forum and reread what he has said.
There is plenty more available on my website and elsewhere.
To allow the full impact of this own words to come to you,
I scanned portions of his books, so you can see for yourself.
Re:
Quote
Short answer: No.
Long answer:
It's easy to get lost in the minutia and spend your life trying to get something sensible from the data, only to have the point become moot just prior to solution. Then apocatastasis occurs and you're back to where you started, none the better for your efforts, and feeling more than a little bit frustrated.
[.......]
And to come to think of it.... all of this "data" can and ought to have been analyzed in "R-E-A-L_T-I-M-E". So, where in the world are the "relevant", modernized, and topical Analytical Tools (Lotus Symphony with the integration of Lotus SameTime all running on OS/2-eCS)! 8)
Maybe, it is time to invite the "Bounty Hunters" from Wall Street who have just packed up? If there is nothing else - and, taking a line from "Intel"...they should know what applications (that did not return [errors]) were needed "inside the computers"! ::) 8) ::)
Quote
IBM Lotus Symphony is a suite of applications for creating, editing, and sharing text, spreadsheet, and other documents. Originally released in July 1984 as an integrated software application for DOS, IBM revived the Symphony name for a new office suite that was first released free of charge in 2007.
[.......]
Although 1-2-3 had originally been billed as an integrated product with spreadsheet, database and graphing functions (hence the name "1-2-3"), competing products such as AppleWorks provided a more comprehensive level of integration and additional functionality; Symphony was Lotus' response.
Symphony is a DOS program that is loaded entirely into memory when started. Using ALT-F10 the user can alternate among the five "environments" of the program, each a rendering of the same underlying data. The environments are:
* SHEET, a spreadsheet program very similar to 1-2-3
* DOC, a word processor
* GRAPH, a graphical charting program
* FORM, a table-based database management system
* COMM, a communications program
[.....]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Symphony
Evolutionary... one might say! ???
Re:
Quote from: kimhav on 2008.09.15, 20:38:40
Always interesting to see how some of the threads tend to get a bit wide when it comes to interpret the thread topic. So here is my little story for the day and it's good one as well, to follow the last thread when it comes to have way too much faith in tools.
Last week the Swedish National Bank raised the interest rate couple of points based on the recommendation from among other SCB (Statistics Sweden is a central government authority for official statistics and other government statistics and in this capacity also has the responsibility for coordinating and supporting the Swedish system for official statistics) and it now turns out that the recommendation was due to a software error... do I need to say that SCB quickly blamed SAS Institute for this little error - they where the ones who made the programming error. Oh, well... why even bother to check the code with models to verify that it actually works. Well, if you want to read a googled page, check this article (http://translate.google.se/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.idg.se%2F2.1085%2F1.178484&sl=sv&tl=en&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8).
Hi All,
It was really neat to have read OS/2 World Foundation's - Global Moderator, Hero Member -"kimhav" comments and quote about the experience of the "Swedish National Bank"; surely then, with what is being reported in the press (newspapers, TV....) about the happenings on Wall Street and which has implications for the global financial markets so much so it was reported in this morning's news that the Russian Stock Exchange has closed it doors.... would not all agree that this once OFF TOPIC thread about S-P-R-E-A-D__S-H-E-E-T-S is now ON TOPIC as was stated earlier by our goodly friend "Ben Dragon" 8)
The question is: And, with reference to the experience of the "Swedish National Bank"; and, the way things have been developing on Wall street... will there come a time when (in the absence of "standardized" products) millions of people around the world will be placing their hands on their heads as a result of experiences like those on Wall Street and that of the "Swedish National Bank". 8)
Best regards.
Re:
Quote
Bush says he's working to curb economic turmoil
[....Bush was supposed to spend the day in Alabama and Florida raising money for Republicans and talking energy policy. He canceled his trip and sent Vice President Dick Cheney to sub for him at the fundraisers to focus on the worst financial meltdown since the Great Depression.
"The American people are concerned about the situation in our financial markets and our economy," Bush said. "And I share their concerns."
The tumult in financial markets and the disappearance of corporate giants have shaken people's faith in the economy. On Wall Street, the fear is that more significant financial companies will fall, causing a spillover effect within the United States and on world markets.....]
http://my.att.net/s/editorial.dll?bfromind=7508&eeid=6095854&_sitecat=1504&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=-2&ck=&ch=ne
Hello Moderators, Hello Ben Dragon, Hello All,
So, when does this current "economic turmoil" officially becomes "On Topic" (and a new thread created) and which (could very well have been the results of "Spread Sheets" with certain limitations). Note carefully the words "economic turmoil" and its relationship to the following Lotus Development Corporation communication (again) a few years ago about the Lotus 1-2-3 Spread Sheet:
Quote
Concerning the issues with 1-2-3 that are talked about in the documentation you gave me, most of the issues are related to converting files between older and newer versions of product and converting documents between Lotus and Microsoft. Anytime a file is saved backwards or saved with an older file format than the format the file was created under, such as saving a 1-2-3 , 97 file for Windows 95 into a WK1 format for DOS, then naturally we are expected to loose certain features due to technology and features that are present now that were not present 8 - 10 years ago. Similarly, if we try to convert a file from Lotus into Excel or Excel into Lotus, due to differences in the products not every feature will be converted perfectly with the file filters that are available. Both Lotus and Microsoft create similar spreadsheet programs; however, there are several differences in both programs and these differences will remain to distinguish the products apart. We do try to design conversion filters that will allow as much of the file formats as possible to be exchanged and converted without disrupting the actual file design and format.
In one of your letters you made mention of the @IRR and @ERR functions in the 1-2-3 product. By design the @IRR (notably "absent" in Open Office) will calculate the Internal Rate of Return; where the @ERR is used in conjunction with other formulas, posted was an "ERR" showing an error was received in the calculations. As far as I can see in the program I cannot find an @ERR function that will allow us to calculate an Economic Rate of Return"
How low can the "Stock Markets" around the globe go (continue with "certain limitations" ;) of the S-p-r-e-a-d_S-h-e-e-t-s)! ??? :( :( :(
BTW, Does any remember who wrote the following in part:
Quote
SAB, are you seriously back in this thread with THAT??
First, DUDE, it's 2008! No one in their right mind uses a spreadsheet to "run" their business. A spreadsheet is a tool.
Second, DUDE, it's 2008! No technology is safe from obsolescence. If you're REALLY this fixated on obsolescence, what on G-d's green earth are you doing in an OS/2 forum? Do you REALLY view OS/2 or it's eCS distribution as "safe" from obsolescence?
Third, DUDE, it's 2008! In case you've been living under a rock, Microsoft won the war. If we are talking about de facto standards in the business world, the Excel file format (by virtue of it's ubiquity if nothing else) is it. Last time I checked, current versions of Excel do not run under OS/2 natively. That is what filters are all about, and with the latest updates, I have no problem using Lotus 123 for viewing, sharing, or saving files in Excel format. I use spread sheets a LOT as a financial tool. This may astound you, but newer is not always better. There are professionals using 123 simply because they prefer it. That includes the manager of my local Washington Mutual Bank....
And, was that the same "Washington Mutual Bank.... " that was on the news last night! ::) then someone could/must be busy packing up at his/her desk. ???
What do we call this "A Spread Sheet (Wardrobe) Malfunction" or what! ???
Now we are talking....
So, bring it on! How about another letter to IBM to enable OS/2 Developers to throw out the Life Lines (develop the needed/required APIs)! 8)
Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.09.19, 04:27:25
Re:
Hello Moderators, Hello Ben Dragon, Hello All,
So, when does this current "economic turmoil" officially becomes "On Topic" (and a new thread created) and which (could very well have been the results of "Spread Sheets" with certain limitations). Note carefully the words "economic turmoil" and its relationship to the following Lotus Development Corporation communication (again) a few years ago about the Lotus 1-2-3 Spread Sheet:
As soon as you
create a discussion thread in the
appropriate section... perhaps something labelled:
"Economic Turmoil due to Spread Sheets"
or something similar.
It's really simple. Go to "Public Discussions" and pick the correct section and/or create a new topic, label it according to the intent in mind for the topic, and voila!
Re:
QuoteAs soon as you create a discussion thread in the appropriate section... perhaps something labelled:
"Economic Turmoil due to Spread Sheets"
or something similar.
It's really simple. Go to "Public Discussions" and pick the correct section and/or create a new topic, label it according to the intent in mind for the topic, and voila!
Welcome back to the "OFF TOPIC: Lotus 1-2-3 1.7.1 Errors" RobertM ;D . The thing is - I really, really like this "OFF TOPIC: Lotus 1-2-3 1.7.1 Errors" thread; and, as it is known that company names like "SWECO", BOEING, EXXON... are of interest to me (particularly to know which "Spread Sheets" they are using... I am a little disinclined to limit the discussion to the current "Wall Street" turmoil by starting a new thread when the gut feeling is that if the global economy (food, energy, transportation, manufacturing...) is to be focussed on then we may be talking about "trillions of dollars" and not 700 billion dollars. ;) Therefore, it is the firm belief that this thread is quite appropriate to address the issues with regards to any "Spread Sheet Errors" (issues) that may ensue from both the national as well as the global economic picture. 8)
Thank you very much for the suggestion.
Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.09.22, 01:22:43
Re:
QuoteAs soon as you create a discussion thread in the appropriate section... perhaps something labelled:
"Economic Turmoil due to Spread Sheets"
or something similar.
It's really simple. Go to "Public Discussions" and pick the correct section and/or create a new topic, label it according to the intent in mind for the topic, and voila!
Welcome back to the "OFF TOPIC: Lotus 1-2-3 1.7.1 Errors" RobertM ;D . The thing is - I really, really like this "OFF TOPIC: Lotus 1-2-3 1.7.1 Errors" thread; and, as it is known that company names like "SWECO", BOEING, EXXON... are of interest to me (particularly to know which "Spread Sheets" they are using... I am a little disinclined to limit the discussion to the current "Wall Street" turmoil by starting a new thread when the gut feeling is that if the global economy (food, energy, transportation, manufacturing...) is to be focussed on then we may be talking about "trillions of dollars" and not 700 billion dollars. ;) Therefore, it is the firm belief that this thread is quite appropriate to address the issues with regards to any "Spread Sheet Errors" (issues) that may ensue from both the national as well as the global economic picture. 8)
Thank you very much for the suggestion.
That is why I created it for you. the option to create another topic, if you think one needs more specificity than this one, as I was trying to say, also exists for you.
Robert
Does anyone remember this "comment" now quoted in part before the "WALL STREET BAILOUT PLAN:
Re:
Quote
SAB, are you seriously back in this thread with THAT??
First, DUDE, it's 2008! No one in their right mind uses a spreadsheet to "run" their business. A spreadsheet is a tool.
Second, DUDE, it's 2008! No technology is safe from obsolescence. If you're REALLY this fixated on obsolescence, what on G-d's green earth are you doing in an OS/2 forum? Do you REALLY view OS/2 or it's eCS distribution as "safe" from obsolescence?
Third, DUDE, it's 2008! In case you've been living under a rock, Microsoft won the war. If we are talking about de facto standards in the business world, the Excel file format (by virtue of it's ubiquity if nothing else) is it. Last time I checked, current versions of Excel do not run under OS/2 natively. That is what filters are all about, and with the latest updates, I have no problem using Lotus 123 for viewing, sharing, or saving files in Excel format. I use spread sheets a LOT as a financial tool. This may astound you, but newer is not always better. There are professionals using 123 simply because they prefer it. That includes the manager of my local Washington Mutual Bank (though the bank is standardized on Excel), and my accountant, both of whom I have shared spreadsheets with. My broker uses Excel. I have no problem converting his files, or editing and returning them to him in Excel format. Furthermore, businesses (especially big business) do not routinely upgrade software just because there is a new version out, unless there is a business advantage to the upgrade. Software is not a hobby in the business world.
This was perhaps the TSUNAME (SPREADSHEET) WAVE that he did not see coming:
Quote
JPMorgan Chase acquires the deposits, assets and certain liabilities of Washington Mutual's banking operations
http://www.jpmorganchase.com/cm/BlobServer?blobtable=Document&blobcol=urlblob&blobkey=name&blobheader=application/pdf&blobwhere=jpmc/pdfdoc/JPMC-WaMu_final.pdf
Maybe this poor dude "SANDER" that made this comment got wash out to sea by the crushing waves that swallowed up (engulfed) WALL STREET and other parts of the INTERNATIONAL SHORELINES? 8)
Re:
QuoteMaybe this poor dude "SANDER" that made this comment got wash out to sea by the crushing waves that swallowed up (engulfed) WALL STREET and other parts of the INTERNATIONAL SHORELINES? 8)
Makes one wonder which Spread Sheet they all are going to adopt - moving forward... noting that the
so-called International Organization for Standardization (ISO) OOXML is not yet apparently implementable while the Open Document Format (ODF) Standards are. And, one gets a glimpse the most modern
IBM Lotus Symphony Rescue Ship in sight. 8)
Re:
QuoteMaybe this poor dude "SANDER" that made this comment got wash out to sea by the crushing waves that swallowed up (engulfed) WALL STREET and other parts of the INTERNATIONAL SHORELINES? 8)
Perhaps, he must be somewhere "under" that $700,000,000,000 "bailout package" that was sent by the U. S. Government to "MAIN" and "WALL STREETS". ;D ;D ;D
OFF TOPIC.... but this is really, really s-e-r-i-o-u-s
Quote
Iceland teeters on the brink of bankruptcy
http://my.att.net/s/editorial.dll?pnum=1&bfromind=7406&eeid=6138094&_sitecat=1505&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=2&ck=&ch=ne&rg=blsadstrgt&_lid=332&_lnm=tg+ne+topnews&ck=
Yep, this (what is happening in the banking and financial industries around the world) should be "OFF TOPIC" until everything "crashes". 8)
Re:
QuoteYep, this (what is happening in the banking and financial industries around the world) should be "OFF TOPIC" until everything "crashes". 8)
And, this as "world financial crisis" rages on:
Quote
Britain threatens to sue Iceland to protect savers
REYKJAVIK, Iceland (AP) - Britain added to the financial chaos engulfing Iceland by declaring Wednesday it planned to sue over lost deposits held by thousands of Britons with Icelandic bank accounts.
The news from London even overshadowed an emergency loan Wednesday from Sweden to Iceland's biggest bank.
The promise of legal action by the British government to recover deposits belonging to 300,000 British account holders with the Icesave Internet bank came after its parent, Landsbanki, was placed in receivership.
"We are taking legal action against the Icelandic authorities," Prime Minister Gordon Brown told journalists in London. "We are showing by our action that we stand by people who save."
http://my.att.net/s/editorial.dll?pnum=1&bfromind=7406&eeid=6138094&_sitecat=1505&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=0&ck=&ch=ne&rg=blsadstrgt&_lid=332&_lnm=tg+ne+topnews&ck=
Things in certain parts of the world are serious! ??? Does anyone know how the economic conditions are with the SAUDIs! 8)