Hi all,
I wasn't sure in which forum to put this, so please bear with me if this is the wrong one.
I have submitted the German version of this 2 days ago to os2.org and have decided to -sigh- ;) make the effort and do a translation of it here:
On Tuesday, Roderick Klein from Mensys called me for a chat over the phone and passed some first facts to me about the GA version of eCS 2.0. In short:
1)
The GA version will ship with Thunderbird2 (.??) and Firefox 3.5.7 that will come with preconfigured run! scripts for them to ease coexsistence.
2)
Special attention was paid to make 2.0 install flawlessly over existing installations, especially with regards to version information of ACPI drivers. In contrast to common criticism, that one would rather do clean installs of 2.0 than upgrade some "crappy old RC", they did not focus on clean new installs but rather take care of clean migrations.
3)
With Uniaud (-16), the new developer in charge actually managed to fix all known open bugs filed until to date... within the last two weeks. And "fixing bugs" actually means to resolve the issues before closing the tickets (in contrast to what the previous developer apparently did). As a consequence, Mensys decided to block access to the code repository for -cough- some of the previous maintainers -cough- to mitigate the risk of having them bringing their crappy code back in.
4)
Multiple stages of verification were introduced with the ACPI driver packaging in order to ensure that not only the package release numbers increase with new version, but rather the included files aren't backlevel artifacts from wrong packaging. The latter -as I can confirm out of personal painful experience- seemed to be happening frequently over in "saintpetersborough" with folks testing their installations rather from a file replacement point of view and forgetting about the endusers way of installing things.Well, anyway, they seem to be very skilled marketing guys but the end user is rather seen as someone having a need for colorful launchpads. Sorry for being OT, back to topic:
5)
JFS, in its shipping flavor, will come with a truinkload of fixes. Also, a lot of improvements occurred in the area of LVM and its usage for partioning during the installation phase.
6)
Currently, CD2 is being packaged. By the way - it will also include a Clam-based antivirus client. I have to admit that I don't see the reason behind this, but that just my 2 cents... perhaps someone around here will rather appreciate this decision.
CD1 (the installation CD) is currently being finalized from a contents point of view. Anyone following the eCS-cvs-tweets at twitter will certainly confirm that quite some things are going on here, so that I can hardly judge whether or not the final installation CD will perhaps be crafted at the Mensys booth at Warpstock Europe 2010 ;)
Or perhaps, like with WSE2008 in Düsseldorf, it will be Team Trier burning eCS CDs again? That would at least perfectly fit into the picture since Team Trier is organizing this year's Warpstock Europe edition ;)
Okay, that's it for the moment guys (an gals). Hope you'll enjoy fighting pro and con the above stuff. I do not know if they will prepare a demo-CD soon or whether they plan to have USB-bootability in mind. I'll check back with Roderick next time I'll find him equally talkative to last Tuesday :)
(Roderick, if you see this and something is not accurate -or simply wrong- feel free to chip in for clarification... other than that, thanks for sharing some news with us!)
Cheers
Thomas
Anyone knows if they fixed the issue of needing to install BootManager in order to install ECS on a non-primary partition? It was quite irritating, for I use other bootmanager and it ment installing BM, removing it, resizing the partition...
Having got several java script viruses and other kind of win32 virus into email, having ClamAV is a good idea and addition.
Cheers/2
RD
1) Nice to hear, but these versions don't have the OS/2 render improvements of the latest branch and will be slow :(
2) Glad to hear migrations work. However, clean install process is still not "easy" on many configurations especially where LVM info does not already exist.
3) Glad to hear Uniaud got some serious code re-work done and has improved. Usually worked well for me though.
4) Never had issues with the ACPI *.wpi packages but I also never checked too deep into it.
5) Sounds like only good things :)
6) AV is always a nice touch, glad to see it included.
------------
Want news on USB Flash drive boot/install, also news on friendliness with SSDs (Aligning Partition/Volume/Filesystem to disk structure to decrease IO load and improve disk performance), and finally, AHCI support.
There is more stuff but that list are the deal-breakers for me right this momment.
Hi
1) Is not of any interest here whichever versions are supplied as I much prefer Seamonkey myself.
2) I'll have to see if ecs migration works as well as my trick of using wps2rexx to create cmd files of the existing Desktop which can then be used to recreate most app installations on the new Desktop without reinstalling.
3) Be interesting to see if the new uniaud developer has fixed uniaud so that it works. I must admit to doubts here.
4) ACPI - wonder if that actually works yet? The higher the acpi build numbers got the less chance of acpi working here; v3.14 was the last build that came close to working. I'm currently using OS2APIC.PSD with an updated loader from the "illegal"(?) os4 kernel package in preference to ACPI on my system using nForce430/MCP61 chipset because it works much better than acpi v3.14
5) JFS fixes and improvements usually welcome - as long as they work :-)
6) AV may be useful in preventing your "immune to WinVirii" system from accidentally passing WinVirii to Win Boxes.
Regards
Pete
Actually Point 1 should be relevant to you Pete as SeaMonkey still uses the same rendering engine as Firefox and Thunderbird. You are not experiencing the render speed improvements that have been made in the OS/2 branch of the 3.7 firefox port. I hope the author makes these improvements across Thunderbird/SeaMonkey as well later.
Hi Saijin_Naib
I use Seamonkey V2 (currently 2.0.4) which uses the much the same browser code as Firefox 3.5/3.6
As you claim the render speed with Firefox 3.7 is that much better I'll look forward to the 3.7 code getting into Sm, hopefully for V2.05/2.06 :-)
However, the point was that the builds of Firefox and Thunderbird included with eCS are not relevant to me - even if they were the very latest/fastest/most stable - as I do not use those apps.
Regards
Pete
Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2010.05.07, 01:14:27
Actually Point 1 should be relevant to you Pete as SeaMonkey still uses the same rendering engine as Firefox and Thunderbird. You are not experiencing the render speed improvements that have been made in the OS/2 branch of the 3.7 firefox port. I hope the author makes these improvements across Thunderbird/SeaMonkey as well later.
Actually, I believe releasing an
ALPHA version of the browser would not be a good business decision for Mensys and Serenity.
I'm guessing part of the reasoning behind Firefox 3.5.7 is that it still works with the Java plugin. As has been reported, newer builds of Firefox won't work with this plugin.
Hi,
@Fahrvenugen: Exactly!
@Pete: They will include a Seamonkey 2.xx on CD#2... not sure about the detailed version though.
Cheers,
Thomas
Q: Will GA version include also the updated (quick) version of Panorama VESA drivers?
Hey Thomas! Another Seamonkey user here, thanks for the input. Any chance of a working Flash 10 being included?
Thanks to you & Rodrick for the feedback. klipp
Quote from: lewhoo on 2010.05.06, 17:16:10
Anyone knows if they fixed the issue of needing to install BootManager in order to install ECS on a non-primary partition?
Not yet. It's probably on the to-do list, but most likely there's no-one working on that.
Quote from: klipp on 2010.05.07, 21:48:48
Any chance of a working Flash 10 being included?
Unfortunately, not yet. It looks like they will provide stuff like that with updates/patches. (And I support to release 2.0 as soon as possible.)
Quote from: StefanZ on 2010.05.07, 12:44:51
Q: Will GA version include also the updated (quick) version of Panorama VESA drivers?
As far as I know yes.
Quote from: warpcafe on 2010.05.07, 12:20:08
Hi,
@Fahrvenugen: Exactly!
@Pete: They will include a Seamonkey 2.xx on CD#2... not sure about the detailed version though.
Cheers,
Thomas
I know this is somewhat of another topic of discussion, but does anyone know if there is any work being done to allow the Java plugin to work with the newer build of Firefox, or what the difficulty is with the Java stuff on the newer Firefox?
Just wondering - I can see how eCS 2.0 (and all OS/2 / eCS users) would greatly benefit from the latest Firefox being able to work with Java. Ideally it would be great to see a newer version of Java available, but for the time being it would be worthwhile to at least be able to use the 1.4.2 we currently have.
Just a thought.
Quote from: Fahrvenugen on 2010.05.08, 18:37:50
Just wondering - I can see how eCS 2.0 (and all OS/2 / eCS users) would greatly benefit from the latest Firefox being able to work with Java. Ideally it would be great to see a newer version of Java available, but for the time being it would be worthwhile to at least be able to use the 1.4.2 we currently have.
For what programs do you need java in Firefox? Even with the older versions of FF I had switched java off and never had a problem. Java is something different then javascript, which is build in.
Quote from: Joop on 2010.05.08, 20:35:14
Quote from: Fahrvenugen on 2010.05.08, 18:37:50
Just wondering - I can see how eCS 2.0 (and all OS/2 / eCS users) would greatly benefit from the latest Firefox being able to work with Java. Ideally it would be great to see a newer version of Java available, but for the time being it would be worthwhile to at least be able to use the 1.4.2 we currently have.
For what programs do you need java in Firefox? Even with the older versions of FF I had switched java off and never had a problem. Java is something different then javascript, which is build in.
Some sites use it for "enhanced upload/download" tools.
Quote from: Joop on 2010.05.08, 20:35:14
For what programs do you need java in Firefox? Even with the older versions of FF I had switched java off and never had a problem. Java is something different then javascript, which is build in.
There are a lot of sites which use Java content (true Java, not just java script). Also there are a lot of website back-ends which take advantage of Java apps for things such as file management.
A site I use which offers educational courses for apprenticeship training requires a web browser with Java 1.4.x It works with the current (older) Firefox we have, but won't work with the newer Firefox.
Furthermore (and even more to my interest) there are a lot of custom web-based apps used on private intranets in business, which require Java working within a browser. They just won't run with straight Javascript.
Quote from: Fahrvenugen on 2010.05.08, 18:37:50
Quote from: warpcafe on 2010.05.07, 12:20:08
Hi,
@Fahrvenugen: Exactly!
@Pete: They will include a Seamonkey 2.xx on CD#2... not sure about the detailed version though.
Cheers,
Thomas
I know this is somewhat of another topic of discussion, but does anyone know if there is any work being done to allow the Java plugin to work with the newer build of Firefox, or what the difficulty is with the Java stuff on the newer Firefox?
Just wondering - I can see how eCS 2.0 (and all OS/2 / eCS users) would greatly benefit from the latest Firefox being able to work with Java. Ideally it would be great to see a newer version of Java available, but for the time being it would be worthwhile to at least be able to use the 1.4.2 we currently have.
Just a thought.
Newer Mozilla builds removed code that our Java plugin requires (actually this is true for all platforms, it is just that we don't have a newer Java with the new interface). I think that the code *may* have been put back in for Macs (they had problems with the new interface) so that we could put it back in but we'd need someone to do the work and for many it isn't worth the effort as our Java 142 is too old to work for most sites I've been to that use Java at this point. I had tried to patch the plugins to work with Java 1.5 but I never got that to work. At this point, if we got a new Java then the new interface should be part of it.
Andy
If we got a new Java, would it be the full runtime so we can run stand-alone Java apps on the desktop? This is important for me for things like a Java Media manager for my Olympus M:Robe Mp3 players (mostly worked with our 1.42 and 1.50 hacked) and the Startek Mercedes Benz Electronic Parts Catalogue.
I'd love to install my netbook into my car with my full service manual (HTML + PDF) with the Java Parts application so that I can have a nice, portable Service "book" on hands at all times.
Lucide has always been amazingly fast and light and 1.32 is no exception.
Just my 2 cents: we really need Java. (and working Flash).
cytan
Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2010.05.09, 04:13:11
If we got a new Java, would it be the full runtime so we can run stand-alone Java apps on the desktop?
The plugin is just an interface between the browser and the runtime. In other words, the runtime would have to be ported (and is the real work involved) in order to have a Java plugin. It is possible, though I was not successful, to have a plugin to point to the Java 1.5 using 1.42 executables.
Really, what we'd really want is the full SDK which includes the runtime.
Andy
Slightly different area of discussion, has there been any indication of what the costs of eCS 2.0 (upgrade from 1.2 / full version / etc) will be? Will it be more then the current 1.2 pricing structure, or comparable?
Also, I'm guessing (and I could be wrong on this) that since the ACPI stuff needs the SMP kernel to run properly, is it safe to presume it'll be shipping with the SMP kernel, thus making the SMP add-on package currently available redundant?
Just wondering.
Quote from: Fahrvenugen on 2010.05.10, 04:23:53
Slightly different area of discussion, has there been any indication of what the costs of eCS 2.0 (upgrade from 1.2 / full version / etc) will be? Will it be more then the current 1.2 pricing structure, or comparable?
Also, I'm guessing (and I could be wrong on this) that since the ACPI stuff needs the SMP kernel to run properly, is it safe to presume it'll be shipping with the SMP kernel, thus making the SMP add-on package currently available redundant?
Just wondering.
AFAIK the latest RCs install per default the latest SMP kernel / DOSCALL1.DLL, so that the SMP package is already redundant.
Mentore
The one important question about new ECS is: can it be installed on HD >512 GB? Is that issue already solved? If not - I've heard and read about a filter driver - is it somehow supported by the installer, or anyone willing to install ECS on a larger hardrive has to manually mess up with installation?
If the filter driver is still only the solution (please fore give me my ignorance), could anyone share his/hers experience with it - are there any drawbacks?
And more over... as far as I remember filter driver was up to 2 TB only... so it's time is also close...
I've got OS/2 running on a 750 GB drive, I don't recall what I did to get it running though.
It is true that the *install /boot partition* can't be huge though - the boot partition that machine is running on is only 1 GB. I wouldn't recommend a boot partition over 1 GB anyways - you don't need anywhere near even a gig for OS/2.
Quote from: Fahrvenugen on 2010.05.10, 16:19:20
I've got OS/2 running on a 750 GB drive, I don't recall what I did to get it running though.
It is true that the *install /boot partition* can't be huge though - the boot partition that machine is running on is only 1 GB. I wouldn't recommend a boot partition over 1 GB anyways - you don't need anywhere near even a gig for OS/2.
I doubt my boot partition will be larger than 10 GB - hardly a need for a boot partition larger than 1 GB on OS/2 :) I just hope that the 1.5 GB HD I'm planning to buy along with buying and installing ecs 2.0 will work without problems.
Quote from: Fahrvenugen on 2010.05.10, 16:19:20
I've got OS/2 running on a 750 GB drive, I don't recall what I did to get it running though.
It is true that the *install /boot partition* can't be huge though - the boot partition that machine is running on is only 1 GB. I wouldn't recommend a boot partition over 1 GB anyways - you don't need anywhere near even a gig for OS/2.
Just define partition to have them below 500MiB (only 500MiB are seen by OS/2 and LVM)
Quote from: CDRWSel on 2010.05.10, 17:08:33
Just define partition to have them below 500MiB (only 500MiB are seen by OS/2 and LVM)
You mean boot partition? Will OS/2 see the other, non-bootable, larger partition occupying the rest of the HD?
Quote from: lewhoo on 2010.05.10, 17:13:07
Quote from: CDRWSel on 2010.05.10, 17:08:33
Just define partition to have them below 500MiB (only 500MiB are seen by OS/2 and LVM)
You mean boot partition? Will OS/2 see the other, non-bootable, larger partition occupying the rest of the HD?
Yes. Someplace there is a thread on this problem. And a method to allow OS/2 to create larger partitions (that are non-bootable). If I find it, I will post a link here.
-R
Hi All
With disks >512Mb you need to set to the mbr to zero using dfsee, www.dfsee.com
This is done using the dfsee menu option Mode=FDISK -> MBR or EBR area operations -> Wipe start of disk to zero
LVM should then be able to see all of the disk.
Hope that is of help
Pete
Yes, Robert, I remembered reading perhaps the same thread as the one you mentioned, too. I found this one:
"Can't install RC5 on big HD (> 500Gb)": http://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,1321.0.html
The last post is from Roderick Klein, who points to another thread started by him on the same subject. This is the URL:
"Mensys needs feedback! (Installing eCS on discs +512 GB and next to Vista)": http://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,1406.0.html
There are several technical points in them (especially in the first thread), so I suggest (and even recommend...) reading them, 'cause one can find some useful information.
Bye!
Thanks TBW!
Those are indeed the threads!!!
Best,
Robert
Thanks guys - those wiping out HDD solution is encouraging. However I understand that the installation of ECS 2.0 out of the box on a large HD is now not yet possible. For me not a big problem, but for many people may be a to be or not to be for ECS on their machines...
Quote from: lewhoo on 2010.05.12, 16:52:51
Thanks guys - those wiping out HDD solution is encouraging. However I understand that the installation of ECS 2.0 out of the box on a large HD is now not yet possible. For me not a big problem, but for many people may be a to be or not to be for ECS on their machines...
As promised eCS 2.0 GA will be revealed to the world at Warpstock. Its has been a long haul up the steep incline with the train.
But it made it...
Attached i the eCS 2.0 GA manual. In that you can read the scenario's for hard disc bigger then 512 GB and whats more new...
I hope the community can see that OS/2 is not yet dead. We have been working are asses at Mensys to get it where its now...
Long days and nights. In the end I hope the community can find renewed faith in the OS that seemed dead.
2009 was best year in cooperated sales ever and the freight is only now picking up speed.
Keep an eye on the warpstock.eu website for my presentation. Because for the next version of eCS we have more in store...
Please note eCS 2.0 GA will not be online right now. It will be done next week.
But its a fact now on friday the first people will have eCS 2.0 in their hands...
Regards,
Roderick
Roderick,
Thank you for keeping everyone informed. If eCS v2.0 is as good as you say I will have to start thinking about getting it for my clients rather than finding shrink wrapped versions of Warp 4 on eBay and similar sites.
ivan
Quote from: ivan on 2010.05.13, 02:17:22
Roderick,
Thank you for keeping everyone informed. If eCS v2.0 is as good as you say I will have to start thinking about getting it for my clients rather than finding shrink wrapped versions of Warp 4 on eBay and similar sites.
ivan
Is eCS 2.0 as good as I say it is. I certainly hope everybody has a nice experience with the product. One thing I do know is that not that often do you hear happy customers in forums. Because how often does somebody mention that it just works. Thats just human nature...
If Warp 4 works for your clients, that's fine. But as far as I can tell its becoming a plain pain in the...... to install Warp 4. If you have hardware that works...
But looking at all the patches and boot problems. I'm almost tempted to write a list. But I think I will still be sitting here this morning.
MCP1/MCP2 is also running out the gas. Try booting Warp 4 on a modern desktop, oke you could sneak in a floppy drive since most mainboards have one. A laptop, get a USB floppy drive. Oke you need to patch the diskettes, good luck.
Standard no Aurora kernel so limited support for large discs. Network card support and detection ? Video card support....
eCS 2.0 boots from external USB CD ROM drives (see manual I posted). We have the Panorama driver, bootable JFS wagon loads of NIC drivers. USB is setup automatically for most USB mouse and keyboards. Good support for mainstream virtual machines...
We have a new version of Java planned now, AHCI support, more updates to USB drivers. New NIC driver for Intel Gigabit chipsets ported from Linux.
So Warp 4 if it does the laundry and the dishes, that's fine :-) But from my point of view its getting pretty hard to run older versions and that not that strange considering Warp 4 is 14 years old now..
Roderick Klein
Mensys
Its 03:00 at the night here so I'm not fully awake...
The things I mentioned: "We have a new version of Java planned now, AHCI support, more updates to USB drivers. New NIC driver for Intel Gigabit chipsets ported from Linux."
These will of the next version of eCS!!! Or released as standalone components!!!!
Just to clarify, now off to bed...
Roderick
Hmm... I wonder if there is... any chance on upgrade pricing from ACP/MCP or even warp 4?
I'm guessing that pricing information will have to wait until Warpstock Europe, I asked that question several days back and as of yet there's been no info.
But considering it is this weekend, we won't have long to wait!
Hi Roderick
Funny you should mention "wagon loads of NIC drivers" as I was just looking in QCKGUIDE.PDF to see what recent/current gigabyte nics are supported. The PDF file states this:-
4.5 What network card chipsets are supported?
For an extensive list please visit http://www.ecomstation.com/faq/558
I had a look at the above url and see this:-
Q: What Networkcards are supported by eComStation 2.0 ?
A:
I guess someone is still preparing that FAQ page?
Regards
Pete