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OS/2 - Technical => Networking => Topic started by: RobertM on 2007.07.05, 02:01:55

Title: Here's how to Get OS/2 and XP to talk via NetBIOS
Post by: RobertM on 2007.07.05, 02:01:55
So folks, for the longest time I have been trying to figure out how to get my WSeB to serve to our XP test system. Once I found the right info online, it was very quick and very painless!

(As noted on the bottom) this does NOT require NetBIOS over TCP/IP (which is a dangerous thing to enable, especially on an XP machine unless you know what you are doing)

Here's what's required:
OR

Here's the steps:



You're done! The next time you log in (final step above), you should be able to browse your OS/2 resources and connect to them from the XP machine. The reverse is true for any XP shares enabled - you can browse and connect to them from your Warp machines.

NOTE: NETBIOS over TCP/IP (and the MS equivalent) is NOT necessary on either the OS/2 or the XP machine - contrary to popular belief. That belief was because trying to install NetBEUI from the XP CD does NOT work - unless you copy it's INF file to the Windows\INF directory AND copy the driver file to the Windows\System32\drivers directory. If you do NOT manually copy those files, XP will pretend to install the protocol but not copy the files to the correct Windows directories (and give NO errors), and your NetBIOS networking will not function even though everything is reporting it should.


Hope that helps!
-Robert

Title: Re: Here's how to Get OS/2 and XP to talk via NetBIOS
Post by: Rob Claessen on 2007.07.06, 07:20:15
Quote from: RobertHope that helps!
Yes it certainly helps.  :D

I only changed LMANNOUNCE from 0 to 1, rebooted and then it worked.
Thank you very much for this, I never expected it to be this simple.

I new it had to be a Windblows "problem" because when booted in eCS on my laptop I could see it from my desktop without a problem, but I couldn't see my laptop when booted in XP. The other way around wasn't a problem of course.
Title: Re: Here's how to Get OS/2 and XP to talk via NetBIOS
Post by: RobertM on 2007.07.06, 09:13:00
Quote from: Rob Claessen on 2007.07.06, 07:20:15
Quote from: RobertHope that helps!
Yes it certainly helps.  :D

I only changed LMANNOUNCE from 0 to 1, rebooted and then it worked.
Thank you very much for this, I never expected it to be this simple.

I new it had to be a Windblows "problem" because when booted in eCS on my laptop I could see it from my desktop without a problem, but I couldn't see my laptop when booted in XP. The other way around wasn't a problem of course.

Hi Rob,

Glad it helped! Yeah, eCS enables NetBIOS over TCP/IP - which just leaves the LMANNOUNCE parameter it seems. I'm going to be playing around with a few more options and setups and revising my post, and then maybe submitting it as an article so everyone in need of the info can find it. Thanks for posting your experiences! The more feedback and results people post will make it easier for everyone else, and I'll incorporate as much as I can in the final version.

This situation resulted from a client who we will probably be replacing their 2003 server with eCS or Warp - in conjunction with our own needs for our XP test machine/workstation... our server is WSeB, and I am kinda leary of enabling TCPBeui on XP or any other Windows variant...

-Rob
Title: Re: Here's how to Get OS/2 and XP to talk via NetBIOS
Post by: Dave Palmer on 2008.07.10, 01:23:16
Hi -
I am really late to this OS/2 and XP NetBIOS party.

I'm not runningWSeb or eCS - just Warp4 fixpack15

I started trying file sharing today, with two XP system via a DSL Modem.  Much to my surprise it worked between those two machines.  Both of which use wireless modems to reach the DSL modem.

Now I am attempting to get my OS/2 system, which uses the same DSL Modem (the system  wirelessly connects via a Buffalo AirStation Wireless G). 

I stumbled into the need for Netbios support and added that, but I've come up dry finding  Pinter and File Sharing support.   I suspect that was an install option which I skipped way back when.

What will be the best way for me to continue on in this effort?

I'd appreciate any comments or help,
Dave

Title: Re: Here's how to Get OS/2 and XP to talk via NetBIOS
Post by: sdennis on 2008.07.24, 01:15:24
Quote from: RobertM on 2007.07.05, 02:01:55
  • Search for LMANNOUNCE (it will bring up multiple results - the one you are interested in is LMANNOUNCE with a value of 0 or 0x00000000

I inquired about this some time ago in these forums and Ben Dragon gave me the same answer (it's here on the old forums under "Networking").  I've actually heard of this trick being done back in '97 when I first started working on OS/2.  IIRC, every version of Windows since Win98 has had to have this registry key changed in order to get Windows to "see" OS/2 shares, despite what Microsoft has insisted on.  Some OS/2 conspiracy theorists even have said MS did it to deliberately muck with us OS/2 users, heh.

I can say from experience that this works very well, especially under XP SP3, which for me has been a real PITA to work with Warp 4.52 (MCP2).

Just my two cents' worth,
Sean
Title: Re: Here's how to Get OS/2 and XP to talk via NetBIOS
Post by: sdennis on 2008.07.24, 01:21:45
Quote from: sdennis on 2008.07.24, 01:15:24
Quote from: RobertM on 2007.07.05, 02:01:55
  • Search for LMANNOUNCE (it will bring up multiple results - the one you are interested in is LMANNOUNCE with a value of 0 or 0x00000000

I inquired about this some time ago in these forums and Ben Dragon gave me the same answer (it's here on the old forums under "Networking").

Here's the URL to the original message:

http://www.os2world.com/cgi-bin/ultraboard/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=59&TID=787&SID=

--Sean
Title: Re: Here's how to Get OS/2 and XP to talk via NetBIOS
Post by: RobertM on 2008.07.24, 05:23:20
Quote from: sdennis on 2008.07.24, 01:15:24
I inquired about this some time ago in these forums and Ben Dragon gave me the same answer (it's here on the old forums under "Networking").  I've actually heard of this trick being done back in '97 when I first started working on OS/2.  IIRC, every version of Windows since Win98 has had to have this registry key changed in order to get Windows to "see" OS/2 shares, despite what Microsoft has insisted on.  Some OS/2 conspiracy theorists even have said MS did it to deliberately muck with us OS/2 users, heh....

Just my two cents' worth,
Sean

They arent conspiracy theorists. It was a very real thing they did, with a very real intent to ensure that businesses had to look into Windows NT servers. At the time, OS/2 had the server market, and they were trying to make inroads with NT.

There was no incentive to switching to NT. OS/2 server management was (and still is) far easier, and you could administer your Windows NT domain from it as well - ooops, until MS changed parameters that didnt need to be changed for any other reason.

No, this isnt speculation... it's all in the court findings in the antitrust case that MS lost. All those originally called conspiracy theorists were finally vindicated... but of course few actually stopped to read those court findings to know that such was the case. And since they even had the reasons down pat, there really wasnt a "theory" to it at all.

I could have told you this a while ago... it's the same tack they took with Win95 and their ridiculous claims about what it could do and what it was. With Betas and RCs that ran competitors products - and a GA that didnt. I worked for CompUSA at the time, and we had a companywide conference call with the chair idiot and the guy in charge of Win95 development who cited to us the reasons they did it (and worse)... increased sales of their products (which we would like, because it meant more money for CompUSA), increase memory upgrades (because, ooops... they (intentionally) understated Win95's requirements on the original box... 4MB - later changed to 8MB on the next drop ships due to public outcry), etc, etc). Someplace the call is recorded - or by now, perhaps even part of the evidence against them in the DOJ case.

Funny thing is, the conference call was with the tech managers and lead techs from each store - and possibly the GMs sitting in. We (the tech team) told them, point blank, we (I, calling on my store's behalf) werent in the habit and did not have the inclination to be ripping off our customers, and did not like their actions. They were quite upset... hung up on me the first time, and blocked our line. So I called from the GMs line the second time. They wanted to know "our" (my) store manager's name... so I gave it to them and offered to put him on the phone, advising them he was standing right next to me, and that he gave me his phone to call in from the second time... they disconnected us, quite pissed, with every CompUSA tech department all the wiser for MS's antics.

This was one of many many instances of MS doing such things to break compatibility with a competing product (with no other reason than that in mind).


Some of us hate MS because we've dealt with them at such levels... and chair idiot & gang are often stupid enough to spell out their reasonings (like all the leaked emails lately). Others have actually followed the court findings in the antitrust case - they are disgusting (the findings... MS... take your pick). I've done both.
Title: Re: Here's how to Get OS/2 and XP to talk via NetBIOS
Post by: DougB on 2008.07.25, 18:52:08
This thread reminded me, that I needed to get my eCS systems to work with VISTA. I don't mind using the NETBIOS over TCP/IP support, so I made no attempt to get NETBIOS to work. I went looking for LMANNOUNCE, and changed it to 1, rebooted, and it still wouldn't work. On a hunch, I went back, and looked for LMANNOUNCE again. It was still 1, but then I did a further search, where I found two more instances of LMANNOUNCE. Changed both of them to 1, rebooted, and now it actually works, from the eCS end (I can log on to VISTA, see the shares, and transfer data). I am not able to log on to the eCS systems from VISTA. It always insists that it is the wrong user ID, and/or, password. I know both are good, because I use them from the eCS boot, on the same machine. This is not a serious problem, in this case, but any tips would be welcome.

Is there any place, in an eCS system, where I can see which user tried to log into the network? Can I also see what the submitted password was? Thanks...
Title: Re: Here's how to Get OS/2 and XP to talk via NetBIOS
Post by: Andi on 2008.07.25, 19:56:10
I've found two notes about that -

1.
Unter Windows 2003: Start->ausführen-> gpedit.msc
Unter
Computerkonifiguration
->Windows-Einstellungen
->Sicherheitseinstellungen
->Lokale Richtlinien
->Sicherheitsoptionen

die Richtlinie "Netzwerksicherheit: LAN Manager-Authentifizierungesebene"
von "Nur NTLM-Antworten senden" auf "LM- und NTLM_Antworten senden"
ändern.

Try to translate -
Start -> Run -> gpedit.msc
Configuration - security - local ... -> options - network security from "LAN Manager..." change to "LM- and NTLM-...."

2.
Mit RegEdit in Windows 2000 oder XP unter:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\lanmanworkstation\parameters
mit "Bearbeiten" und "Neu" den "DWORD"-Wert "EnableDownLevelLogOff" und
den Wert "1" hinzufügen.
Weiterhin sollte man das Passwort unverschlüsselt senden
"EnablePlainTextPassword = 1".

Try to translate -
with regedit in
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\lanmanworkstation\parameters
New Key "EnableDownLevelLogOff" and DWORD value 1
and
New Key "EnablePlainTextPassword" and DWORD value 1

This are infos I've found over the years. I've a Notebook with XP which works with Warp Server. Another one with XP works too, but there is IBM Primary Logon installed. Both can see the Domain ressources. W98 and W2k works too, of course. Not tried with Vista and hopefully never have to do...
HTH
Title: Re: Here's how to Get OS/2 and XP to talk via NetBIOS
Post by: DougB on 2008.07.26, 18:28:18
Well, this is disappointing. This morning, I can "see" the network stuff on VISTA, from eCS, but I can't get it to transfer data. Trying to copy a file, from VISTA results in a timeout, and a message SYS0240. Trying to copy from eCS to VISTA, results in a SYS0266 error. This did work, yesterday, immediately after I did as described earlier. There must be something else blocking it. I don't think it is the firewall, since I disabled the VISTA firewall , and use ZoneAlarm (which I also disabled, temporarily). Oh well, more things to be tried, once I find the time...
Title: Re: Here's how to Get OS/2 and XP to talk via NetBIOS
Post by: ModZilla on 2008.07.30, 01:45:01
this may confirm that MS is still at it, as Robert claims, blocking any netbios/tcp/ip from working with layers/ports or whatever, in other systems, esp those based on ECs/Warp and 'other derivatives of UNIX'...sounds like calculus here maybe I should stay away from integrals I dont understand, but just to cover the full spectrum of PITA modes, sounds like something is dark at MS, to squelch any handshake by having inserted some kind of weird code to block anything that smacks of making apache work, or ? anything " for that matter in opensource that would otherwise work with dwindoze...hemmmmmmmmm; I wish I was a real programmer, its frustrating to hear all this and have nothing substantial to add here but I do find this all very interesting, esp netbios; I bet someone here will post a workaround sooner than we may all expect, maybe [just a stab at it] it is just shared folders that netbios cant use when it comes to a port from the Vista OS looking at the ECs machines port or the other way around: the future is here, here's hoping...|:]

I FOUND THIS :  "A network operating system from Microsoft that runs as a server application under OS/2. It supports DOS, Windows and OS/2 clients. LAN Manager was superseded by Windows NT Server, and many parts of LAN Manager are used in Windows NT and 2000. See LAN Server" :FR: http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Microsoft+LAN+Manager


and this which is also implying that its all so easy to connect: "These systems are just two members of a rather large family that also includes Microsoft Windows for Workgroups, Microsoft LAN Manager for OS/2, IBM LAN Server, Digital Equipment Corp.'s PathWorks for VMS, a variety of freeware ports of SAMBA, and LAN Manager for Unix (available from Hewlett-Packard Co., NCR Corp., The Santa Cruz Operation and others). Even Novell has an offering that enables NetWare servers to interact with these LAN Manager-based workgroup products." ::FR::
http://whitepapers.silicon.com/0,39024759,60007178p,00.htm

on this topic I like to read more at the site: http://www.jacco2.dds.nl/samba/lanman.html

I thought netbeui was basically an early PC networking protocal that isnt used any longer with all these lan managers for Novell and the like...my self i like to just connect with a straight RJ45 confiqured [wired] as a serieal connector and use the command line with llc.exe on both machines; an early version of 'laplink', I tried this app in OS/2 ver 3 and win 3.1 and it worked w/o netbios enabled on either...so maybe netbeui was...i always have trouble messing with registry keys, scares me to even think about tweaking hastalavista, its so intimidating compared to warp ...
Title: Re: Here's how to Get OS/2 and XP to talk via NetBIOS
Post by: RobertM on 2008.07.31, 05:24:57
Being unable to comment on the technical specifics (Paul and others working on SMB might be able to), I can tell you this. The LanMan/NetBIOS/NetBEUI code was at one time (1996/1997) SO compatible with each other, that not just could you administer Windows domains, Windows clients and Windows users via OS/2 Warp Server (far easier than under Windows) - but they also wrote (and I got to play with) DSS for OS/2 Warp Server, which allowed you to create, manage, access and share resources across multiple domains, with the WS4 box handling all the logins, handshaking, user account stuff, etc. And it worked BEAUTIFULLY... (until MS started changing a parameter here, a parameter there... and IBM gave up on DSS).

Inotherwords, lets say you had 10 domains... no problem. You could have a centralized login, that the WS4 box would then use to allow you access to resources on all the domains. Or as administrator, you could map cross-domain resources (ALL drag n drop just like normal WS4/WSeB network management).

It was an amazing tool - and it did FAR more than that too...
Title: Re: Here's how to Get OS/2 and XP to talk via NetBIOS
Post by: ModZilla on 2008.08.08, 19:08:21
So in an ideal world, we had an ideal server, whatsup with Tivoli? Understand, I have never tried it, should i be concerned bout using such a thing when I dont really have an enterprise but run several domains and do not need alot of storage?
Title: Re: Here's how to Get OS/2 and XP to talk via NetBIOS
Post by: ddan on 2008.08.08, 20:53:24
On Vista losing network shares: according to what I read by Jerry Pournelle (formerly of BYTE magazine), at chaosmanorreviews.com, that's characteristic of Vista. He seems to still have the problem after more than a year of struggle, despite Crimosoft "OneCare" support.

As a more general solution, saw a LinkSys NAS box at an office supply store, $100 US. Has FTP and HTTP servers, holds two HDs. Could avoid some trouble, at least allow ECS access to files when Vista is having one of it fits.
Title: Re: Here's how to Get OS/2 and XP to talk via NetBIOS
Post by: ModZilla on 2008.08.08, 21:44:43
for a connection on a LAN, netBIOS notwithstanding, isnt Novell or a generic Lan manager able to talk/see to any box regardless of the type of session, ie for folder and printer sharing?
Title: Re: Here's how to Get OS/2 and XP to talk via NetBIOS
Post by: RobertM on 2008.08.08, 22:29:39
Quote from: ddan on 2008.08.08, 20:53:24
As a more general solution, saw a LinkSys NAS box at an office supply store, $100 US. Has FTP and HTTP servers, holds two HDs. Could avoid some trouble, at least allow ECS access to files when Vista is having one of it fits.

This solution will also work with OS/2 and Vista if the FTP and HTTP servers are running natively on either OS. This is the current method I use to share files between an XP and a bunch of OS/2 and eCS machines. The FTP and Web servers are all running on the OS/2 server.

The only problem I have run into is that FireFTP on... any platform (unless they've finally addressed the issue) has problems with large files. Usually, I run FileZilla on the Windows machine and transfer to and from there to the Warp machines.

-Robert
Title: Re: Here's how to Get OS/2 and XP to talk via NetBIOS
Post by: ModZilla on 2008.08.10, 07:06:24
FileZilla is v.kewl and portable as a server, so I am not surprised. There is also ADS which can be used in the same way as a file server on a network with different OS/OSes talking to each other anyway, using just ftp servers seems like a great work around instead of direct NICs between OSes that may or may not {see each other} going online and running ftp native that will work, taking out the index.html file of the root server folder can force browsers of different OSes to connect as FTP servers but you may only see subfolders and files in the root servers folder not the whole enchilada which would be if you went Lan wise/with NICS. Which I could not comment on as I have no direct experience, Robert is on the right track here I suppose and I would like to make os/2 warp 4 server and Vista work on the same LAN but right now that will have to wait until I get the rig back up we talked about on another thread...hey I read something about some freeBSD talking to UNIX but for me that is waaaaaaaaaaay out there! Perhaps Solaris would talk to UNIX without alot of hoopla...and therefore if it did, talk directly to OS/2