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OS/2 - Technical => Internet => Topic started by: S.SubZero on 2007.10.15, 13:34:44

Title: Fonts/Settings in Firefox to get websites to look right?
Post by: S.SubZero on 2007.10.15, 13:34:44
I'm using Firefox 2.0.0.6 with the Innotek FT2LIB 2.60.

Many websites, especially vBulletin forum sites, display the default font too large.  This causes some problems on sites with small text boxes, since text goes spilling out of the box and has unpredictable results.

I've duplicated my browser settings identical to Firefox on Windows but there's no change.  If I decrease ALL the fonts a notch it fixes the fonts that are big, but then smaller, correct fonts get too small.

Here is an example of the problem.  OS/2 is on the left, Vista is on the right.

(http://www.ecursed.com/pictures/ffproblem.jpg)
Title: Re: Fonts/Settings in Firefox to get websites to look right?
Post by: melf on 2007.10.15, 15:11:03
I have the same problem since FF 2.x releases and have searched for some setting in FF but found no one. Earlier, 1.x releases had the option to set resolution, but thats gone. However if you install "preferential", a FF add on, you get access to FF "advanced preferences", but that doesn't help, resolution is the same anyway. Mostly there is no problem, but some sites gets really ugly.
Title: Re: Fonts/Settings in Firefox to get websites to look right?
Post by: Rob Claessen on 2007.10.15, 18:36:06
I haven't tried it myself, but maybe the Squint extension is what you are looking for :

Quote from: SquintNoSquint allows you to adjust the default text zoom level, which is useful if you have a small display or run at a very high resolution. NoSquint also optionally remembers the zoom level per domain.

Get Squint here. (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2592)
Title: Re: Fonts/Settings in Firefox to get websites to look right?
Post by: melf on 2007.10.15, 22:53:05
Rob! Thanks a lot! That was exactly what I needed, hope the same goes for Subzero.
Title: Re: Fonts/Settings in Firefox to get websites to look right?
Post by: S.SubZero on 2007.10.16, 01:17:00
This is not what I need.  Nosquint is nice, but it applies to ALL of the fonts on a page.  My problem isn't with ALL of the fonts on the page, only some of them.  As per my example picture, the larger fonts are too large, while the smaller fonts are the appropriate size.  To apply Noquint on this page, it would make the small text even *smaller* and not solve my problem. 

Besides, View->Text Size does this too just without the site specific option.
Title: Re: Fonts/Settings in Firefox to get websites to look right?
Post by: davidfor on 2007.10.16, 03:50:19
The two things that occur to me are:

- Missing font.  The pages that are wrong might be specifying a font you don't have installed.  Looking at the page source should be able to Installing the "MS Core Fonts" might be the solution.

- Innotek Font Engine not setup correctly.  Firstly, are you sure it is setup to for Firefox?  This needs an entry in the registry for the Firefox executable (probably "firefox.exe").  The setting of the "Hinting" and "AntiAliasing" options change how the actual font is displayed.  Details of how to make these changes are in the readme for the font engine.  I don't have an OS/2 machine with me to check what my settings are.

Also, it helps when asking a question like this to include the URL for the site in question.  That way we can have a look and see if we have the same problem or to examine the sites source to see if we can work out what is going on.

David
Title: Re: Fonts/Settings in Firefox to get websites to look right?
Post by: RobertM on 2007.10.16, 03:57:12
Hi SubZero,

Look on Hobbes for the MS Web FontPack and install those. Use (try both and pick the best) either Arial or Verdana for your default sans-serif font in Firefox once they are installed.

Also, though I know you arent messing with this, a BIG mistake I made on one of my machines was to set my default window font to "System VIO"... which unfortunately Firefox will then use for it's menus... since it isnt a scalable proportional font (it's a bitmapped font), it messes up every menu. For instance, on the Tools menu, "Options" becomes "Optio...", on the right click on links, "Open this link in a new window" and "Open this link in a new tab" both become "Open thi..."

Figured I'd add that part just in case, while installing the fonts, you decide to play around with your system fonts.

-Robert

Title: Re: Fonts/Settings in Firefox to get websites to look right?
Post by: S.SubZero on 2007.10.16, 07:47:44
Quote from: davidfor on 2007.10.16, 03:50:19
- Missing font.  The pages that are wrong might be specifying a font you don't have installed.  Looking at the page source should be able to Installing the "MS Core Fonts" might be the solution.

I have those installed. 


Quote from: davidfor on 2007.10.16, 03:50:19- Innotek Font Engine not setup correctly.  Firstly, are you sure it is setup to for Firefox?  This needs an entry in the registry for the Firefox executable (probably "firefox.exe").  The setting of the "Hinting" and "AntiAliasing" options change how the actual font is displayed.  Details of how to make these changes are in the readme for the font engine.  I don't have an OS/2 machine with me to check what my settings are.

My screenshot shows a pretty antialiased font.  I'm *fairly* confident that font is being rendered with the help of the Innotek utility.  As for settings, the utility has few settings.  Firefox would appear to be set up by default.

Quote from: davidfor on 2007.10.16, 03:50:19Also, it helps when asking a question like this to include the URL for the site in question.  That way we can have a look and see if we have the same problem or to examine the sites source to see if we can work out what is going on.

QuoteMany websites, especially vBulletin forum sites, display the default font too large.

If you really need a very specific example.. http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/ . That site looks wrong too.  Practically every site I visit that runs vBulletin exhibits the exact same font problem.  The image in my example is from www.abxzone.com.
Title: Re: Fonts/Settings in Firefox to get websites to look right?
Post by: warpcafe on 2007.10.16, 09:58:36
Hey guys,

-not sure if you knew already-
some time ago I was working on a program ("feffer") that is used to easily access the Innotek fontlib settings (instead of having to use regedit2...). During that work I found that the antialiasing of Innoteks ft2lib seems to have an impact on the font sizes - meaning: They are not accurate. I'm using SeaMonkey most of the time and I can assure you that there's a difference in fontsizes between when enabling ft2lib support or not.

Not sure of this helps... to my knowledge, there is no solution so far to work around this.
You might give it a try with disabled ft2lib support (looks "ugly" of course, but check if the SIZES are OK then)

Regards,
Thomas
Title: Re: Fonts/Settings in Firefox to get websites to look right?
Post by: melf on 2007.10.16, 11:34:04
Quote from: S.SubZero on 2007.10.16, 01:17:00
This is not what I need.  Nosquint is nice, but it applies to ALL of the fonts on a page.  My problem isn't with ALL of the fonts on the page, only some of them.  As per my example picture, the larger fonts are too large, while the smaller fonts are the appropriate size.  To apply Noquint on this page, it would make the small text even *smaller* and not solve my problem. 

Besides, View->Text Size does this too just without the site specific option.

Just a comment to this, for those that could have a use of Nosquint . There is one advantage with Nosquint before "View>Text Size"- option:

You don't have to set the opition every time you reopen FF, like you have with the "View>Text Size-option.The setting is always there.

Title: Re: Fonts/Settings in Firefox to get websites to look right?
Post by: davidfor on 2007.10.17, 05:17:34
Quote from: warpcafe on 2007.10.16, 09:58:36
-not sure if you knew already-
some time ago I was working on a program ("feffer") that is used to easily access the Innotek fontlib settings (instead of having to use regedit2...). During that work I found that the antialiasing of Innoteks ft2lib seems to have an impact on the font sizes - meaning: They are not accurate. I'm using SeaMonkey most of the time and I can assure you that there's a difference in fontsizes between when enabling ft2lib support or not.

Not sure of this helps... to my knowledge, there is no solution so far to work around this.
You might give it a try with disabled ft2lib support (looks "ugly" of course, but check if the SIZES are OK then)

I remember playing with it sometime and seeing these sort of problems.  But, the "on" setting is so much better overall that I left it on.  Fiddling with the hinting option did help as well, but I think mainly in clarity of text and not in the size.  It's been to long since I did this to remember.
Title: Re: Fonts/Settings in Firefox to get websites to look right?
Post by: davidfor on 2007.10.17, 06:05:08
Quote from: S.SubZero on 2007.10.16, 07:47:44

Quote from: davidfor on 2007.10.16, 03:50:19Also, it helps when asking a question like this to include the URL for the site in question.  That way we can have a look and see if we have the same problem or to examine the sites source to see if we can work out what is going on.

QuoteMany websites, especially vBulletin forum sites, display the default font too large.

If you really need a very specific example.. http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/ . That site looks wrong too.  Practically every site I visit that runs vBulletin exhibits the exact same font problem.  The image in my example is from www.abxzone.com.

A specific example is always useful.  I have never knowingly looked at a vBulletin forum site.  I have probably used them, but not paid attention to what software was being run.  So, giving a URL lets me see the site, examine the source and see if I can come up with what is happening.

Looking at http://www.abxzone.com/forums/, I see it uses a CSS file.  That appears to specify the fonts as
"10pt verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;".  So, if "verdana" is installed, it should be used.  As verdana is part of the MS Core fonts, it should be OK.  There are a couple of spots where "tahoma" is added in front of this list, so if that is not installed, there would be a difference to the Windows machine.  But, this shouldn't be the problem as the parts that are displayed wrong do not use this.

The parts that are wrong are look like "<strong>Open Chat</strong>" and seem to be using the default page font (i.e. verdana).  That suggests that Thomas' statement that there are problems with the antialiasing is probably the answer.  If so, there is probably nothing you can do.

The last thing I can think of is if you have a vBulletin site that is OK, you could compare its CSS file with a non-working site for the differences.  This might lead to an answer as to what is wrong.  But, I suspect there won't be a fix.
Title: Re: Fonts/Settings in Firefox to get websites to look right?
Post by: S.SubZero on 2007.10.17, 18:52:01
I reinstalled the fonts, and I at least got the *right* font to display, which is Verdana.  Unfortunately in fixing this problem I made my oversized font problem worse, as Verdana fonts are larger than Arial or many other fonts at the same point size.

I tried disabling antialiasing by renaming firefox.  The fonts are all jagged and brutal, but alas, the large fonts are still too large.  No matter what tweaking I try to do, it won't correct them at all.

I'm curious if browsers on other OSs like Linux or Macs have this problem.