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OS/2 - Technical => Applications => Topic started by: Pete on 2010.10.28, 16:25:16

Title: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: Pete on 2010.10.28, 16:25:16
Hi All

I see eCS have released OO 3.2 see http://www.ecomstation.com/news.phtml?action=fullnews&id=3491&title=OpenOffice.org 3.2.0 GA for eComStation released

As OO3.1.1 supplied with eCS2.0GA crashes every time I try to create a Label or Business Card I am wondering if this build is worth bothering with.

I have no interest in purchasing flaky software - I got eCS2.0GA as a result of having had Software Subscription so my copy of eCS2.0 does *not* include the 6 month Software Subscription included when actually purchasing eCS2.0GA Home/Student - so would be interested to hear whether OO3.2 still has the same problem.

Mind you, the Support for OO3.1.1 was lousy so guess the same will apply to OO3.2 and if the Label/Business Card problem still exists I doubt if it will be fixed.

Maybe it is time to sack eCS totally and move to a different operating system...

Regards

Pete
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: Saijin_Naib on 2010.10.28, 17:35:36
I've been rather frustrated as well. I've had no luck installing it on my new desktop, and after collecting a ton of info and driver sources, no help getting it to function usefully on my netbook.

I will not be purchasing SSS again.
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: cytan on 2010.10.28, 19:12:31
I've used openoffice on multiple platforms: OS/2, windows and MacOSX. Originally, I had thought that the OS/2 version was very slow and buggy (e.g. the presentation and the writer apps) but they are just as bad on windows and on the mac. I believe that there are problems within openoffice and not with the port itself.

cytan
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: Pete on 2010.10.28, 20:30:28
Hi cytan

You may well be right - but I do not really use other operating systems that often so have not seen this myself.

I do know that OO115 for Windows (running using ar5os2.exe) works so much better than OO311 for OS/2 that I'm still using OO115 in preference to OO311.

I have asked eCS OO support whether the problems I found with OO311 have been fixed for OO3.2 and the reply leaves me in no doubt that they have not.

So, I'll stick with running OO115 and not bother with OO3.2 for OS/2.

Regards

Pete
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: cytan on 2010.10.28, 20:56:35
Unfortunately, OpenOffice 3 is just not a great app and quite buggy. Unfortunately, that's the only thing that is available on OS/2. And let's not forget that it's also a shared memory hog. Try starting it a few times and all the shared memory is fragmented and OS/2 requires a reboot.

The other downside is that the fonts that OO uses are not quite the same on windows, mac or os/2! I had a very long document which looks fine on say OS/2, but the formatting is completely different on a Mac and windows (and the mac and windows version actually formatted differently too!) I traced it down to New Times Roman not being quite the same on any of the platforms. Therefore, even file portability is an issue with OpenOffice. (I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that MS Office suffers the same problem on the Mac and windows.)

Personally, I never liked GUI type wordprocessor and prefer to TeX (not LaTeX  ;) ) to write my stuff.

cytan
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: melf on 2010.10.28, 21:22:47
I think OO has its drawbacks - I would have wished for something faster and smaller. Anyway, living in a windows world it's great to have as my collegues use windows mostly. I write a lot and use impress as well as draw and sometimes also spreadsheet.

I've used Draw several times to make posters. At the printing office I once was asked what software I've used 'cause they found the quality very good - and  the result was really good. I use Writer every day most hours of the day, open and close it several times. I must say I seldom have problems.

Now I've downloaded the 3.2 and tried it a little. Seems to me no difference to the 3.1 version. What makes me most disappointed is the missing support for "drag-text", which we have in the "odinized" version, but not in the native. I've brought that up to the support for several years now. In summary I'm quite satisfied to have OO, although it has its drawbacks.
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: EugeneGorbunoff on 2010.10.29, 00:03:57
Let's collect bug-reports related to OpenOffice.org in this forum:

http://forum.ecomstation.ru/viewforum.php?f=4

Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: Pete on 2010.10.29, 01:26:28
Hi Eugene

I thought that was the job of http://www.ecomstation.com/support/ooo/ - not that it seems to get anything fixed.

Regards

Pete
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: Sigurd on 2010.10.29, 07:34:54
One might want to give this a try:

Description:

http://www.rom-logicware.com/

Download OS/2 Demo Version (from 2008, therfore I guess it is not listet in the current English Download page)

http://www.papyrus.de/files/PapX_OS2_Demo.exe

UPPS! This link is not working anymore - I do not know if there is another place to find this file. I might find it in my archive if someone is interested in...

The fastest word processor I ever used, needs only a few megabyte to install, with VoiceType Support, Full WPS integration,....

Usually I use this one with eComStation, OO in case of Impress.

Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: Saijin_Naib on 2010.10.29, 07:52:11
I was trying to get them to Open Source it or Update the OS/2 version, but apparently they gauged interest here or on a newsgroup and we did not respond positively so they have officially dropped the OS/2 version.

Email Thread (Top - Recent, Bottom - Older)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
synper311@aol.com schrieb:
> I know. Do you know about eComStation? It is the continuation of IBM OS/2 by Serenity Systems and Mensys. The newest version (2.0) is coming out May 14th 2010 (So only a few days :) ).
>
> There is still an active community, especially on www.os2world.com
For us - we asked for interest, a while ago - less than 50 people. This is nothing we can care for, because of we have to make our living from Papyrus ...
>
> We have to pay for a support licence to get OpenOffice.Org so there is a demand for an up-to-date office suite. However, I think that you and your team should look at the ODT and OOXML specifications for support in your product as both standards are becoming widely used in the Linux/Mac/Win world, and even in our little OS/2 corner.
>

We would have loved to support the great OS/2 System much longer ...  So, please blame IBM for their stupid decisions, not us :-)

synper311@aol.com schrieb:
> Ah, that is a shame. Well, thank you in any case. I appreciate that you did at one point support OS/2 even if it is no longer viable :(
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ramps <Ramps@papyrus.de>
> To: synper311@aol.com
> Sent: Tue, May 11, 2010 4:28 am
> Subject: Re: Papyrus Office for OS/2
>
> Sorry, no. Too much cross interests in Win and Mac, which are still running.
>
> synper311@aol.com schrieb:
>> Would you consider Open Sourcing the OS/2 version or allowing it to be donwloaded for free?
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ulli Ramps <Ulli.Ramps@papyrus.de>
>> To: synper311@aol.com
>> Sent: Mon, May 10, 2010 10:01 am
>> Subject: Re: Papyrus Office for OS/2
>>
>> Sorry, no further development - too less interest.
>>
>> synper311@aol.com schrieb:
>>> Hey guys, was wondering if you were still developing/supporting Papyrus office for IBM OS/2?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Brett
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: Batchheizer on 2010.10.29, 08:19:08
The other downside is that the fonts that OO uses are not quite the same on windows, mac or os/2! I had a very long document which looks fine on say OS/2, but the formatting is completely different on a Mac and windows (and the mac and windows version actually formatted differently too!) I traced it down to New Times Roman not being quite the same on any of the platforms. Therefore, even file portability is an issue with OpenOffice. (I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that MS Office suffers the same problem on the Mac and windows.)
This problem with font (line-spacing) is fixed now in 3.2.(or in the pre-release, I tested). It was a big problem for me too.
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: EugeneGorbunoff on 2010.10.29, 09:41:27
To Pete:

OpenOffice.org tickets system - yee.. the users don't see what happens there. That's why I talk about public forum / bug-tracker -- http://forum.ecomstation.ru/viewforum.php?f=4
Maybe this is the only way to influence on OOo/2 development.



To Sigurd:

We added Papyrus Demo to eCo Market -- http://ecomstation.ru/ecomarket
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: CDRWSel on 2010.10.29, 10:50:37
I thought Papyrus development was stopped on OS/2 since several time now due they didn't get enough request to continue support it !
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: melf on 2010.10.29, 12:53:48
Yes it is, and AFAIK the latest version is in German only...
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: CDRWSel on 2010.10.29, 15:52:09
How to get Lotus SmarSuite compatibilty ?
IBM symphony based on Ooo could implement it but too heavy and slow...
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: Andi710 on 2010.11.03, 20:37:43
What makes me most disappointed is the missing support for "drag-text", which we have in the "odinized" version, but not in the native. I've brought that up to the support for several years now.

I asked Yuri Dario about it on netlabs IRC a couple of days ago, because this is my number one cmplaint for years as well. He sais that d'n'd is very complex within OOo and he doesn't have the resources to work on this topic. I offered some funding for it (as the community was funding Qt and many other bounties) - but Yuri maintains it makes no difference, as coders are missing.

Maybe Rich Walsh can help out as soon as FF4 is stable...
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: melf on 2010.11.03, 23:49:08
Thanks for info Andy, it's good to know what to expect even if it's bad news. Cut and paste will do, but the drag feature is really smooth.
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: IBManners on 2010.11.04, 03:38:36
I'm so use to not using drag n drop now, its just a low priority. Probably a higher priority for others that use OO under different platforms all the time. So for me D n D isn't important.
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: Andi710 on 2010.11.04, 15:45:16
I'm so use to not using drag n drop now, its just a low priority. Probably a higher priority for others that use OO under different platforms all the time. So for me D n D isn't important.

Does it make OOo unusable - no? But I find it a really strange situation that I can drag and drop text between my web browser (firefox) and a VIO window (FileCOmmander/2) or my eMail composing window and enhanced editor (for LaTeX). Just not into, ot of or even within my latest and greatest WYSIWYG _text_processing_ application. ;-)

In addition, al lthe nice feature of DragText depend on basic enablement. Would be so good to drop text onto the title bar in order to open a small window temporarily storing the text or right to the desktop to save this bit of information permanently.
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: Pete on 2010.11.04, 22:55:51
Hi All

I've been playing with OO3.2.0 for Windows and the recent Odin build.

The Writer bit works fairly well and has no problem creating Labels and Business Cards - unlike OO3.1.1 for OS/2 here. There is a codepage problem I think as I'm getting non-English characters displayed in existing documents. Any ideas how to set Odin codepages to overcome this?

Regards

Pete

Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: Blonde Guy on 2010.11.05, 06:22:53

The Writer bit works fairly well and has no problem creating Labels and Business Cards - unlike OO3.1.1 for OS/2 here.


OpenOffice for eCS works for labels here. I found the templates on-line. I didn't try business cards, but why wouldn't they work?
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: Pete on 2010.11.06, 04:10:10
Hi Neil

I've no idea why OO3.1.1 as supplied with eCS2.0GA simply crashes with no log and no entry in os2popup.log whenever I try to create a label or business cards.

Sadly eCS OO support has no idea either...

I did think that despite the md5sum check being correct for the downloaded ec2 cd3 iso file that there may be some possibility of corruption so downloaded the file again - saved it to a new filename, burnt a new cd and tried a reinstall but no change in behaviour.

Your mention of templates may be related. Where did you find the templates you mention and where did you unpack them to?

Regards

Pete
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: Pete on 2010.11.14, 04:41:25
Hi

No, the problem has nothing to do with Templates.

Still no idea on why OO311 crashes when trying to create Labels or Business Cards.

As the so called "support team" have no idea and it looks like they are not interested in resolving the issue I guess it is time to move on to a different operating system - OO311/320 on other operating systems (same hardware) simply does not have these problems.

Regards

Pete
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: melf on 2010.11.14, 12:27:23
http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?action=printpage;topic=3107713.0
http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-help-here/applications/427484-openoffice-crashes-using-templates-2.html
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=559764

Hi Pete, I don't have the problems with labels, but I saw two similar reports regarding Linux distributions and a bugreport from one of them.
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: Pete on 2010.11.14, 17:47:01
Hi Melf

A quick look at the urls supplied seems to indicate problems within the operating systems involved rather than problems with OO311.

Can anyone suggest what the equivalent problems would be in eCS?

Regards

Pete


Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: RobertM on 2010.11.14, 22:54:25
Hi Melf

A quick look at the urls supplied seems to indicate problems within the operating systems involved rather than problems with OO311.

Can anyone suggest what the equivalent problems would be in eCS?

Regards

Pete

That makes me wonder if it's a print driver problem. "Back in the day" when I was debugging and beta testing the new 32bit print engine for OS/2, we'd run into weird issues like that on a bunch of stuff. Some turned out to be how the presentation space was being registered by the app and some weird inconsistencies that were not being taken into account with the alpha versions of the new print engine. It took us a few months to help track down the particular issue, with code/alphas flying back and forth somewhat regularly.

Which brings me back to your particular issue... are you running CUPS? If so, your problem may be along the same lines - and could be why the Linux problems are relevant to the issue.

Best,
Robert
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: Pete on 2010.11.15, 01:44:18
Hi Robert

I doubt if it is a CUPS problem - but I am basing that doubt on the fact that OO311 is very happy to print using my CUPS printer.

The linux problems seem to be related to certain builds of KDE; 1 solution was to install the gtk(?) build of OO rather than the KDE build.

I guess the equivalent on OS/2 based systems could be e/xWP related but why should I be the only eCS(OS/2) user complaining about this problem?

I did discover that OO has an option to join the OO "improvement program" and when that is enabled an error report is produced when OO crashes instead of displaying the Label applet. I supplied the report to the eCS support team but have not had any response to date - maybe they need longer than a week to look into this. OTOH: I'm the only person with this apparently non-reproducable problem so maybe they are not that interested  :-(

I do have a workaround: I saved a blank Label page - of the required label type - in OO115 and now simply open that file when I need to produce labels. The same trick can be used for producing Business Cards. However, this should not be necessary; it simply means that OO311 is not working as it should.

I certainly will not be spending money to purchase eCS SSS in order to obtain the OO320 release until eCS OO support come up with some answers.

Regards

Pete
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: RobertM on 2010.11.15, 03:22:57
Hi Pete,

I am not sure how CUPS does things, but the standard OS/2 print subsystem simply carves out another presentation space and allows drawing in it just like one would for standard PM stuff (even calling some of the same base functions... it's all pretty much (1) Create presentation space, (2) Querycaps, (3) draw - only real difference being handling the ps data returned via querycaps). The issues we ran into were often driverbase specific (ie: happens with OMNI but not PCL# or PS) due to handling of the presentation spaces. Sometimes it was very driver specific. The issues they are talking about (Linux world) seem somewhat similar in those respects - as well as their method of solving it.

Have you tried removing your printer setup (driver, etc) and then installing something very generic and well tested (yes, sans printer), and see if the results are the same?

Best,
Rob
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: Pete on 2010.11.15, 04:29:43
Hi Rob

Well, your suggestion about uninstalling my printer has opened another, possibly related, can of worms.

I was just rummaging through my printer settings and I noticed that on the Shares tab of the printer properties that "Not Shared" is the Current Status - which is correct - but "Start sharing at workstation startup" is Checked. That did not seem right to me so I Unchecked that.

Strangely the Current Status then changes to Active and the printer appears as a share in the Sharing and Connecting notebook (IBM File and Print client) !!!

If I Stop Share in the Sharing and Connecting notebook the Shares tab of the printer properties now shows Current Status "Not Shared" and "Start sharing at workstation startup" is now Checked again.

Either I'm misunderstanding something or it looks like I've found an error in eCS2.0GA - why would anyone want "Start sharing at workstation startup" Checked for something that should *not* be shared?


CUPS: How it works, briefly:-

The CUPS package plus various other packages that are required such as gutenprint and ghostscript in order to get the printer working with the CUPS package.

However this does not give us an OS/2 system printer. There are some extra steps required which involve installing the eCUPS.drv - basically the IBM postscript driver but with the CUPS PPD files installed instead of the usual postscript drivers - and the eCUPS port driver.

The eCUPS port driver needs to be selected as the output port for the OS/2 printer that uses the eCUPS.drv; this directs the output from the eCUPS.drv through to the CUPS package - which is how you get a raster printer to behave as a postscript printer on OS/2 systems.

Hope that gives you a brief overview  :-)

I will uninstall my current OS/2 printer and see if it makes any difference.

I will also report the above "share strangeness" to eCS in the hope (probably somewhat forlorn) that someone will be able to enlighten me as to this behaviour. I suspect it may have a bearing on the OO problem.

Regards

Pete






Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: melf on 2010.11.15, 09:54:09
According to "Start sharing at workstation startup", I think that this is always pre choosen.


A shot in the dark: Are you having some add-on that could interfere with your OO-setup?
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: Pete on 2010.11.15, 19:01:24
Hi Melf

You may be right that "Start sharing at workstation startup" is always chosen - it just does not make sense for a resource that is not shared. Also Unchecking that setting for a non- shared resource should not cause a share to be created for that resource.

As for an addon that could interfere with OO: You tell me because I have no idea.

Regards

Pete


Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: ivan on 2010.11.15, 19:41:38
Reading this topic I think that OO for OS/2 is suffering from lack of beta testers and number of systems it is tested on.

I can see reasons for this from a monetary point of view but that can, and usually will, be self defeating - who wants to buy an untested product?

ivan
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: Pete on 2010.11.15, 20:15:45
Hi Rob

Having given my brief overview of how cups works maybe you'd like a more in depth look. Alex Taylor has produced an FAQ which may be of interest and can be found here http://svn.netlabs.org/ecups/wiki/CupsFaq?version=6

Regards

Pete
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: melf on 2010.11.15, 21:52:13
Hi Melf

You may be right that "Start sharing at workstation startup" is always chosen - it just does not make sense for a resource that is not shared. Also Unchecking that setting for a non- shared resource should not cause a share to be created for that resource.

As for an addon that could interfere with OO: You tell me because I have no idea.

Regards

Pete


Well, I think the interface is somewhat unintuitive. I guess your resource didn't go "active" when you unchecked, but rather when you pressed "save" - right? Pressing "Save" seems to be same as setting a resource active (AFAIK this has always been the case- someone better knowing please correct me). Then if the "Start sharing at workstation startup" is checked or unchecked doesn't matter. If it is unchecked you have to share the resource manually next time, if checked this is automatic.

Add ons: My thought was that you may have some OO add-on (there are myriads) that cause you trouble. I 've heard that eg Zotero can make OO crasch but Zotero just work for win and linux I think. However, if Zotero can probably other add-on may interfere too.
Title: Re: OpenOffice 3.2 - will it work better than OO3.1.1 ?
Post by: Pete on 2010.11.16, 03:45:55
Hi melf

Yes, the resource becomes Active after clicking Save. Trouble is you need to click Save after unchecking "Start sharing at workstation startup" of the setting does not stick.

With regard to OO addons: No, none installed; this is as installed from eCS2.0GA CD#3.

Regards

Pete