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OS/2 - Technical => Hardware => Topic started by: Raiko on 2011.11.30, 18:36:19

Title: Graphics card
Post by: Raiko on 2011.11.30, 18:36:19
Comments about using these 2 cards under eCS are welcome.
Planning on buying a Lenovo ThinkStation E30 7824 - Tower - 1 x Xeon E3-1235 / 3.2 GHz - RAM 4 GB - HDD 1 x 1 TB
(Model no.SZD43MN), will install eCS to a SSD disk.

NVIDIA Quadro 600 - Graphics card - Quadro 600 - 1 GB DDR3 - PCI Express 2.0 x16 - Dual link DVI / VGA and DisplayPort
NVIDIA Quadro 2000 - Graphics card - Quadro 2000 - 1 GB GDDR5 - DVI, 2 x DisplayPort

Tks

Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Pete on 2011.12.02, 19:50:44
Hi Raiko

Well, you are going to be running those cards in VESA mode (Panorama driver or SNAP set to VBE fallback) so don't expect the same level of performance as they would deliver if they had accelerated drivers.

Regards

Pete
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Raiko on 2011.12.02, 22:17:46
Thanks Pete,

Yes, that's what I expected, but at least there is no obvious reason that they shoudn't work with Panorama?
I'm also planning on buying a Samsung 27", not sure what model cause there are quite a few to choose from,
so it would be nice to know if anyone has tried this combination of hardware.

Rgds Raiko
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: abwillis on 2011.12.02, 23:28:45
There is no wide screen activator for the Nvidia cards so you would likely not get wide screen capabilities (can't say that for certain as it is dependent on the Video BIOS).
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Raiko on 2011.12.03, 17:52:26
So I can forget about nvidia bundled. This particular model also comes with integrated graphics,
Intel HD Graphics P3000 for Intel Xeon E3 Processor Family. It's not clear to me if this one is supported
by the wide screen activator, any experiences? Will probably be good enough for eCS, but occationally I
also use W7 and would like to have a better card.
http://en.ecomstation.ru/projects/panorama/?action=hardware-widescreen
The above site hasn't been updated since 2010/02/27 so I wonder what is the actual status today?
The cards listed are not available in any stores where I live, so does anyone have a suggestion for
something newer that works, wide screen and preferably up to 2 monitors?
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: abwillis on 2011.12.03, 21:38:58
If by two monitors you want an extended desktop (one desktop extending across two monitors) then you need a card that is fully supported by SNAP (yes, old cards at this point).  If you just want to clone both monitors (same thing on both monitors) then Panorama is fine. 
Recently Paul Curtis posted this:
*ATI Radeon X300 series Dual Head video cards
I have some in stock

His site if anyone is interested:
http://www.curtissystemssoftware.com/
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: EugeneGorbunoff on 2011.12.03, 22:07:20
The site seems dead. They are selling eCS 2.0 RC and beta.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: RobertM on 2011.12.03, 23:24:01
AFAIK, there are very few cards that will work in dual card configuration. And the nVidia cards are poorly supported by SNAP - watching paint dry is faster than the refresh rate you'll see using a SNAP/nVidia combination.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: RobertM on 2011.12.03, 23:47:47
The site seems dead. They are selling eCS 2.0 RC and beta.

Or simply not updated... I think he's been busy supporting a few big OS/2 clients.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: abwillis on 2011.12.04, 22:44:28
Paul recently reported on the eCSTestTeam list that he had the inventory of those cards (within the month or so).  He has primarily started selling preinstalled eCS running in a VM running on Linux because of hardware support issues.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Raiko on 2011.12.05, 08:50:52
Desktop extending across two monitors is what I'd like to have, but for now I'll just buy a Radeon of some sort and see if I can make it work with widescreen resolutions.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: RobertM on 2011.12.06, 00:50:17
Desktop extending across two monitors is what I'd like to have, but for now I'll just buy a Radeon of some sort and see if I can make it work with widescreen resolutions.

Pretty easily done on most of the Radeons. I use SNAP for that, though haven't tried it on the newer and newest Radeon lines. I've got two wide screen LCDs hooked up and working (in wide screen mode of course). BUT, of course, the panels should be the same resolution, since SNAP will use the same resolution for each. In reality, it's creating a desktop twice as wide (or twice as high, depending on how you configure it) of a single LCD panel, and "splitting/spanning" it across both panels.

Once multi-head is enabled (assuming you're using SNAP - which may not be the solution to use on the newer/newest Radeons), simply pick the correct resolution (for instance, for a left screen/right screen setup with two 1280x1024 screens, you'd pick the 2560x1024 resolution). At least, that's how I think it went. I can always check if you run into problems.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Raiko on 2011.12.08, 19:06:15
Got a Samsung SyncMaster S27A950D - LCD - 3D ready TFT - 27 delivered today, just plugged
it in and booted and I got to a desktop with the res 640/480. Highest resolution I could pick from
the list, using Panorama and nvidia 9600GT, is 1280/1024 which of course is not good enough,
but I'll soon get a new ATI graphics card and will report the outcome of that.
(I used to have a ViewSonic 2235 widescreen that worked well with 1680/1050 and the 9600GT.)
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: ivan on 2011.12.08, 19:55:32
Hi Raiko,

You should get the resolution you are looking for from an ATI card.  I have a Hanns-g HH281 28 inch LCD @ 1920 x 1200 running here on an ATI card.  All I did was to select the correct resolution in the SNAP dropdown and it was up and running.

ivan
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Andi on 2011.12.11, 21:05:58
Just attached a second 24" 1920x1200 monitor to my ATI X300. Although the X300 does have only one DVI out the second monitor on the analog RGB out works amazingly well. Nearly invisible that it's an analog connection and I'm very picky when it comes to picture quality. I'm using the cable delivered with the HP monitor. So now I've 3840x1200 resolution.

Things worth to mention
- with SNAP the second monitor has to be placed at the right side, primary at the left. What the graphic card enumerates as primary and secondary I don't know. With the X300 it seems if there is something connected at the DVI interface it uses this as primary. But AFAIR it switches primary/secondary depending on what is attached at boot up. Unfortunately you can not freely flip images as you can do it with Win.
- size of Notebooks and Folders AND Objects inside are stored as fraction of screen width it seems. So your carefully placed Objects in Folders and Notebook sizes have to be positioned once again.
- some dialoges are at the center the PM which means they span across both monitors. Clearly 3 monitors would be better than. Anyone knows a card which is supported by snap and can drive 3 displays?
- StarOffice5.1 displays correct only with 4:3 display ratio. On a 32:10 workplace it's unusable. Luckily we've OpenOffice...
- when the cursor is on the second display the arrow also appears at the very left side of the primary display
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: RobertM on 2011.12.11, 22:15:20
- size of Notebooks and Folders AND Objects inside are stored as fraction of screen width it seems. So your carefully placed Objects in Folders and Notebook sizes have to be positioned once again.

Windows seems to have an issue with this as well - albeit a different one. It'd simply regroup everything that extended past the edge of the screen - so if the screen went from 1280x1024 to 800x600, then anything past 800 or past 600 gets dumped "wherever". I prefer OS/2's method - usually. I only had problems with its method when I jumped down a lot of "resolutions" - like 1800x1600 to 640x480. Though, for "momentary" resolution switches, it was nice - I could just "deal with it" and when I switched back to the higher resolution, things would be the way I left them. Used to come in handy with a projector I used to use occassionally that only operated at lower resolutions.

- some dialoges are at the center the PM which means they span across both monitors. Clearly 3 monitors would be better than. Anyone knows a card which is supported by snap and can drive 3 displays?

In my setup, there was a setting someplace... I cant remember whether it was in SNAP or something else I was running (xWP... Styler/2... WPSWidgets... ???). It would center dialogs onto one panel. It didnt work with everything, but it seemed to work with most things.


- when the cursor is on the second display the arrow also appears at the very left side of the primary display

That's odd. Never seen that before. Sounds like a slight incompatibility of some sort.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: abwillis on 2011.12.11, 23:06:48
- some dialoges are at the center the PM which means they span across both monitors. Clearly 3 monitors would be better than. Anyone knows a card which is supported by snap and can drive 3 displays?

In my setup, there was a setting someplace... I cant remember whether it was in SNAP or something else I was running (xWP... Styler/2... WPSWidgets... ???). It would center dialogs onto one panel. It didnt work with everything, but it seemed to work with most things.

That is a SNAP setting... there were a few apps that had problems with that but I don't recall which ones.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: RobertM on 2011.12.11, 23:53:53
- some dialoges are at the center the PM which means they span across both monitors. Clearly 3 monitors would be better than. Anyone knows a card which is supported by snap and can drive 3 displays?

In my setup, there was a setting someplace... I cant remember whether it was in SNAP or something else I was running (xWP... Styler/2... WPSWidgets... ???). It would center dialogs onto one panel. It didnt work with everything, but it seemed to work with most things.

That is a SNAP setting... there were a few apps that had problems with that but I don't recall which ones.

Nor do I... I think some portion of MPTS perhaps...

A lot of "normal" stuff (folders and such) would simply remember their place - as expected. Many true OS/2 apps would also remember their places automatically, even for stuff like file dialogs... while other true OS/2 apps (such as Embellish) would gladly remember such if one put things where they wanted and chose "Save window positions" from their menu. I think some of the older dialog stuff (leftovers from v1.3) are what largely failed positioning themselves in the wanted place.

Anyway - for those trying to get such a setup working, on the "Multihead" tab, the option is labeled "Center windows on head" which needs to be checked, followed by selecting which head (1 or 2, etc) or leaving at the default (I think #1).

Also on that page are the setting to change from "side by side" to "Above/Below", but as noted, no settings to change which is #1 and which is #2.

Of course, as interesting a placement as it is, one will also find the "base resolution" setting here. Anyone having trouble with finding the correct resolution multiple on page 1 ("Screen") should check the "Multihead" page first, set the "base resolution" for a single viewport, then go back to the "Screen" tab and look for the resolution multiple they want.

Inotherwords, if each LCD is 1280x1024, go to "Multihead" and select a base resolution of 1280x1024. After that go back to "Screen" and select the resolution "multiple" (assuming 2 LCDs and "side by side" mode) of 2560x1024. Now, you may get lucky, and it may already be listed in the resolution list on the "Screen" tab once you enable multihead - but if not, now everyone knows where to find the base setting to ensure it's there on the "screen" tab.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Andi on 2011.12.12, 13:46:36
Quote
...Samsung 27"...
Would suggest to buy a 16:10 model instead the cheaper and smaller 16:9 ones. Which means 1920x1200 instead 1920:1080. 10% smaller height (y resolution) really matters. Even would prefer a 24" 16:10 over a 27" 16:9. Nowadays inch values for displays alone are similar useful than GHz for processors... Check that out side by side before buying.

And again although stated above - for MultiHead applications you need 2 displays with the same resolution with OS/2. Best would be 2 times the same display brand and type.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: RobertM on 2011.12.12, 17:37:34
Agree with Andi... the taller the screen real-estate, the better - especially until someone figures out how to take advantage of some of the monitors that allow orientation flipping (ie: portrait to landscape). In some ways, for anything but watching movies, I actually prefer 4:3.

Oh, and side note: on my earlier comment on locking dialogs and windows to a certain screen, I may be in error on the file open/save dialogs. I've just remembered (in reading another thread I'm about to comment in) that I am running xFile for all my file open/save dialogs, and it (unlike the OS/2 dialog) is somewhat WPS aware, and is designed to be able to remember its size and position. Mine pops open on head #2 instead of centered on both or on head #1, even though my multihead setting is set up to use head #1 - thus I suspect my results are a feature of xFile's OS/2 WPS awareness and not of the setting in SNAP.

In running ANY version of OS/2, from eCS v1.2 or earlier, I've found xFile indispensable, and one of the first things I install on a setup. The few times I have actual work to do on a customer's setup and am forced into using the default dialog, I remember just how painful such is.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Raiko on 2011.12.13, 20:46:09
Well, I already bought the 27" Samsung, and will see how it works before I decide to keep it or not.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Raiko on 2011.12.15, 00:02:52
Installed a HIS Radeon HD 6770 and highest resolution with Panorama is 1400x1050 and not something I will use, also the movement of windows is a bit flaky. Tried SNAP and the pc hangs after it displays that the Scitech driver is loaded, last line of message starts with OEM....etc
ACPI is not yet installed and I wonder if that is necessary, any ideas?
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: RobertM on 2011.12.15, 01:01:06
Installed a HIS Radeon HD 6770 and highest resolution with Panorama is 1400x1050 and not something I will use, also the movement of windows is a bit flaky. Tried SNAP and the pc hangs after it displays that the Scitech driver is loaded, last line of message starts with OEM....etc
ACPI is not yet installed and I wonder if that is necessary, any ideas?

Boot to VGA using the boot choices (ALT-F! on boot blob), fully uninstall SNAP and remove all SNAP directories. Remove all additional SNAP files elsewhere. Reboot, then reinstall SNAP.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Raiko on 2011.12.15, 13:44:39
Uninstalled and removed all SNAP stuff I could find, reinstalled SNAP and booting with ALT-F2 and the last thing I can see being loaded is pmshell.exe. At this point it normally would display the SNAP logo I guess, CAD works at this point though. Removed SNAP and installed Panorama and the widescreen activator and it works with 1920/1080, but the performance is too bad/slow painting. Unless someone has an idea how to make it work with SNAP, I think I'll have to find another graphics card.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: RobertM on 2011.12.15, 14:15:36
Uninstalled and removed all SNAP stuff I could find, reinstalled SNAP and booting with ALT-F2 and the last thing I can see being loaded is pmshell.exe. At this point it normally would display the SNAP logo I guess, CAD works at this point though. Removed SNAP and installed Panorama and the widescreen activator and it works with 1920/1080, but the performance is too bad/slow painting. Unless someone has an idea how to make it work with SNAP, I think I'll have to find another graphics card.

Sorry, I was in a bit of a rush, and might not have been clear.

- Uninstall SNAP
- Reboot and select ALT-F1, then "Boot to VGA Mode" (or whatever it's labeled) on the boot choices presented
- Once the OS is booted, search for more SNAP components that were not deleted during the uninstall (SDDHELP.SYS and some others will remain, as well as possibly a SNAP directory or two - one sometimes in the root directory, and one someplace in one of the subdirectories under the OS2 directory)
- Remove/uninstall Panorama
- Reboot
- Reinstall SNAP

HTH,
Rob
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Raiko on 2011.12.15, 16:16:00
Tks, Rob, but I already did that, .........and did it again, still hangs at the same place.
By the way, I've also made a new installation of eCS21 and chose to use SNAP instead of Panorama and then it hangs after after phase1. Also tried with and without ACPI, still the same result.

Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: RobertM on 2011.12.15, 16:38:18
How different is it from the 7500? There's an additional driver to go along with it (the 7500) and SNAP.

Never mind... found the answer to that one. Sorry it didnt work. :/
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Raiko on 2011.12.15, 23:49:29
In a few days I'll get a Radeon HD 5450 to test, however I'd appreciate if someone has an idea how to make the HD 6770 to work with SNAP, or to get better performance using Panorama. Recommendations for other graphic cards are also welcome.
Tks Raiko
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: RobertM on 2011.12.17, 00:02:38
In a few days I'll get a Radeon HD 5450 to test, however I'd appreciate if someone has an idea how to make the HD 6770 to work with SNAP, or to get better performance using Panorama. Recommendations for other graphic cards are also welcome.
Tks Raiko

On the "compatibility site" it seems most people are using the Panorama drivers for the newer HD series. You might want to check there to see how they're getting decent performance out of those drivers.

As it seems a bunch of the drivers were open sourced (for the Linux community), perhaps we can start some sort of initiative to porting them or incorporating the necessary code into Panorama or SNAP.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Raiko on 2011.12.17, 15:24:11
Have checked the Panorama section at ecomstation.ru and many things there are a bit unclear to me, but I noticed this:

Q: Shadow buffer is enabled but it doesn't work (drawing is slow)     
A: * Try upgrade/downgrade motherboard BIOS of the computer.
   * Check x:\vbe2grad.log, It should contain: Write Combine caching enabled

My vbe2grad.log does not contain "Write Combine caching enabled" for the HD 6770. (It did for the nvidia 9600GT.)
Don't like the idea to downgrade BIOS, however although this is a new pc I'll check for a newer version.


Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: ivan on 2011.12.17, 16:00:31
Downgrade the BIOS to get video to run - they must be joking!

I have memories of there being a small program that enabled write combining but I don't know if it would work with new hardware.

ivan
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Raiko on 2011.12.17, 16:12:42
This system seems to have the latest BIOS version and I'll leave it like that.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: David McKenna on 2011.12.17, 17:57:32
Hi Raiko,

  I recently got a new motherboard (MSI H55M-E33) and Radeon video card and was never able to get SNAP to work - something to do with MTRR's not being set properly by the BIOS.

  Like you, I tried Panorama with wide screen enabler and it worked, but performance was very slow. I eventually discovered that if I only had 2GB of RAM installed (I started with 4), Panorama performance improved dramatically and is usable.

  If you have 4GB or more RAM it might be worth trying only 2GB and see if it helps with Panorama.

Regards,

Dave McKenna
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Raiko on 2011.12.19, 16:15:27
Hi Dave,

I have 6GB RAM on this system, removed 4GB and it does improve the performance, however, still I don't think it is good enough. Since I find the info on the Panorama site a bit confusing I really don't know if this is something that's being worked on and that a "fix" will be released. (Obviously I don't need 6GB for eCS, but I sometimes need to use W7 64bit, and removing and adding RAM is not a long term solution.)

Rgds Raiko
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Raiko on 2011.12.20, 17:11:33
I'm now trying a Sapphire Radeon HD5450 and the performance seems to be a little bit better than with the HD6770, but still it is far from good. Think I saw a report on the hardware list at ecomstation.ru about HD5450 and that is was working good, and it would be nice to know how they achieved that.
As with the HD6770, this card does not work with SNAP. Panorama and widescreen activator work for both, but needs improvement to be classified as good.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: sXwamp on 2011.12.22, 01:54:31
I'm now trying a Sapphire Radeon HD5450 and the performance seems to be a little bit better than with the HD6770, but still it is far from good. Think I saw a report on the hardware list at ecomstation.ru about HD5450 and that is was working good, and it would be nice to know how they achieved that.
As with the HD6770, this card does not work with SNAP. Panorama and widescreen activator work for both, but needs improvement to be classified as good.


Not sure what your requirements are for Windows, but you may want to try a Radeon X800-850 PCIe 256MB card. One major/minor issue with the card is with the card Dos window cmd does not work and it's not supported by WarpOverlay.

Get them on eBay for $40-50 bucks - I sure wish someone could add support to WarpOverlay !!!

Or try a ATI Radeon 9250 256Mb PCI if you have an older computer.

Greggory
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Pete on 2011.12.22, 03:47:56
Hi sXwamp

Why would you want to use WarpOverlay anyway? - SNAP overlay (snapwrap.dll supplied with vlc, mplayer, kplayer) works better.

I've been finding the ATI X series cards with active cooling (ie a fan) to be less reliable than those ATI X series cards with passive cooling. I've recently binned 1 * X800, 1 * X700, 1 * X600 as they had all failed due to the fans clogging up (well, not so much the fan as that can be vacuumed reasonably easily but the heatsink vents that the fan blows through cloggs up) causing overheating problems. The X300 with passive cooling (finned heatsink) bought *before* any of the above cards is still going strong though.

I've replaced the above failed cards with X300 cards using passive cooling but with a small case fan positioned to blow across the X300 cooling fins to help dissipate heat.

I guess the best answer is to go for water cooling at some point... or use the computers in a totally dust free environment.

I cannot say I noticed problems with the X series and DOS cmd window; probably because I never install DOS/Win16 support these days as DOSBox covers my simple DOS game playing requirements much better - and has sound.


Regards

Pete
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Raiko on 2011.12.22, 03:49:46
Thanks, Greggory, actually I use win mostly for editing pdf's and gaming so I do need a not too old graphic card.
Anyway, I put back the Radeon HD6770 and reduced colors to 64K and performance is somewhat better now, but I really hope Mensys, or someone else, finds a solution to this problem. By the way, I've also tried a Geforce 8800 Ultra (I think that's what it was called) but with Panorma I could only use low resolutions and even then it was quite slow.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: sXwamp on 2011.12.22, 04:09:43
Hi sXwamp

Why would you want to use WarpOverlay anyway? - SNAP overlay (snapwrap.dll supplied with vlc, mplayer, kplayer) works better.


It maybe my system or setup, but vlc, mplayer, kplayer all skip ( I have SET NSPR_OS2_NO_HIRES_TIMER=1 too
, and Uniaud ) when I open up a directory or open a new tab in Firefox.

For me I can throws anything at WarpVision and WarpOverlay, plus the sound is superior to any I tested yet.  And WarpOverlay doesn't have the Radeon SNAP bug in WarpVison.

And I would have to disagree with you on the comparison between SNAP & WO - about the same for me. Until, recently I had a Hauppage WinCast PCI tuner that Warpvision supported and the output was better then Windows !!!!


Greggory
  




Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: rudi on 2011.12.23, 08:38:22
It maybe my system or setup, but vlc, mplayer, kplayer all skip

It's not your setup. All these apps do a very poor job with respect to this. I don't know, if it is related to their general design or the OS/2 output modules. Somehow I have the feeling it's related to the latter...

And I would have to disagree with you on the comparison between SNAP & WO

The only difference between the two is the set of supported hardware. WO supports a somewhat greater variety (ATI, Matrox, nVidia, 3dfx) but only for now really antique card models. SNAP overlay can be used with a little bit less ancient card models by ATI, Intel and partially S3. Some ATI cards can be used with both WO and SNAP overlay.

BTW, SNAP overlay fails here on Intel graphics when the resolution is larger than about 1680 x 1050. Anyone else seeing this ?

Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: cyberspittle on 2011.12.23, 20:49:39
@PETE,

Perhaps you may want to consider dust filters on your case. These can go in front of intake fans. Hopefully, that will prevent the dust from jamming up the fins on heat sink in active cooling.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: David McKenna on 2011.12.23, 22:11:20
Raiko,

  See http://svn.ecomstation.nl/snap - it looks like the SNAP and Panorama drivers will be merged and the MTRR issues will be dealt with... eventually.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Raiko on 2011.12.24, 17:35:32
Had a look at that link and also an older thread here at this site about SNAP and it looks like something is happening. As usual little info is given to the public, and since this is quite an important issue I'd wish for some news now and then.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Pete on 2011.12.25, 05:44:47
Hi

@ cyberspittle

Case filters are in place, inside of cases get cleaned every 3 months; no problems cleaning cpu heatsinks only with cleaning graphics card heatsinks.

The main problem is my house is an old building that seems to accumulate dust faster than it is possible to clean...

So, watercooling is an option I'm planning on investigating in the near future.


Regards

Pete
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: jdeb on 2012.01.26, 17:22:19
I'm now trying a Sapphire Radeon HD5450 and the performance seems to be a little bit better than with the HD6770, but still it is far from good. Think I saw a report on the hardware list at ecomstation.ru about HD5450 and that is was working good, and it would be nice to know how they achieved that.
As with the HD6770, this card does not work with SNAP. Panorama and widescreen activator work for both, but needs improvement to be classified as good.


Or try a ATI Radeon 9250 256Mb PCI if you have an older computer.

Greggory

I have a like new ATI Radeon 9250 256mb or 512 (can't remember) AGP if someone needs it.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: RobertM on 2012.01.26, 20:08:35
Or try a ATI Radeon 9250 256Mb PCI if you have an older computer.
Greggory
I have a like new ATI Radeon 9250 256mb or 512 (can't remember) AGP if someone needs it.

And SNAP (best edition you can get your hands on - though virtually any version will work - a newer edition IS required for SMP machines though). It will support dual monitors (LCD or CRT), 4:3 resolutions or 16:9 resolutions and VGA/DVI monitors via the standard DVI to VGA adapter that comes with some of the cards (as well as reportedly, various DVI monitors hooked up via their DVI cables).

Relatively snappy (no pun intended) performance.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Andi on 2012.01.27, 12:39:44
The much better 16:10 resolutions too. Only problem with Multihead I found is with 'Center popups at screen..' and WinOS2. The WinOS2 popups are not moved to the center of on monitor and are not fully drawn too. Then you can not click on the partly drawn buttons and only kill this WinOS2 program with f.i. xcenter. So have to disable 'Center...' before starting WinOS2 and reenable afterwards.

Does WinOS2 work with Multihead and 'Center...' for anyone else?
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: RobertM on 2012.01.29, 18:29:12
The much better 16:10 resolutions too. Only problem with Multihead I found is with 'Center popups at screen..' and WinOS2. The WinOS2 popups are not moved to the center of on monitor and are not fully drawn too. Then you can not click on the partly drawn buttons and only kill this WinOS2 program with f.i. xcenter. So have to disable 'Center...' before starting WinOS2 and reenable afterwards.

Does WinOS2 work with Multihead and 'Center...' for anyone else?

EDIT: I am discussing my experiences with WinOS2 Seamless on multihead - NOT my experiences with WinOS2 Full Screen. I cannot (easily) test my WinOS2 Full Screen experiences since I (virtually on day one) installed WPS4Win.



WinOS2 works fine here (ATI Radeon 9250 and SNAP full version, post SMP fix (don't know the build level, but I can check if necessary). Since in reality, they are really redrawn (drawn over) OS/2 folders/dialogs, it is weird that they would not work properly. Even their specific folder properties are derived from OS/2's default folder properties (border width, border colors, etc).

I have seen the drawing corruption you speak of, but that is usually because of a graphics or system component that is at a level mismatch for other components that are installed (or a video card driver issue). It usually happens in a failure during the "draw an OS/2 dialog... now paint a Windows-like dialog over it" stage.

I'm running multihead (2 LCDs) at 1280x1024 each, side by side orientation. My WinOS2 session is locked to the first head, and full screen (as expected) spans both heads. Un-maximizing restores the stored position on the first head (in the same fashion it would for any other OS/2 dialog box).


The only other time I've seen the redraw issue is on certain software on earlier versions of OS/2 (such as Warp 3... or possibly OS/2 2.1, and programs such as QuarkXpress 3.1, where it uses a toolbar with custom sized "sysmenu" and titlebar controls, and OS/2 doesn't properly scale the OS/2 equivalent, and then follows up with improper drawing of the Windows-like controls over it - but that was resolved a long time ago.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Andi on 2012.01.29, 20:07:07
I've Snap build 505 which seems to be the last. Just installed 3.1.8 over it and identifies itself again with build no. 505.

I tested WinOS2 the same as you, on screen 1, maximize minimize works as expected. But WinOS2 message boxes (?) like the WIN-OS/2-Setup dialog in the WIN-OS/2-main group (Hauptgruppe) positions itself at the middle of the two screens but partly behind other OS/2 windows. Seems it is drawn first at screen center (middle of two screens) and then moved to the center of screen 1 as at that place there are redraw problems when moving OS/2 windows over it. And the WinOS2 dialog/window is not usable - does not react on mouse clicks neither at screen center (middle of the two screens) nor in the middle of screen 1.

It's eCS2.1DE with ATI X300 and otherwise works quite well. Please check your snap build level.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: RobertM on 2012.01.29, 20:41:30
I've Snap build 505 which seems to be the last. Just installed 3.1.8 over it and identifies itself again with build no. 505.

I tested WinOS2 the same as you, on screen 1, maximize minimize works as expected. But WinOS2 message boxes (?) like the WIN-OS/2-Setup dialog in the WIN-OS/2-main group (Hauptgruppe) positions itself at the middle of the two screens but partly behind other OS/2 windows. Seems it is drawn first at screen center (middle of two screens) and then moved to the center of screen 1 as at that place there are redraw problems when moving OS/2 windows over it. And the WinOS2 dialog/window is not usable - does not react on mouse clicks neither at screen center (middle of the two screens) nor in the middle of screen 1.

It's eCS2.1DE with ATI X300 and otherwise works quite well. Please check your snap build level.

I do get the window position problems with the ones you mention (and a couple others) - I doubt Windows 3.1 has a mechanism to store the window positions - or sizes it seems. I'm wondering if a standard GUI object ID is given to the windows for the seamless sessions... if that ID is consistent, maybe this is easily addressable. Otherwise, the answer may be to figure out how to ensure WinOS2's viewport is constrained to one head. Considering the mechanism it uses in drawing, that may be difficult.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Joop on 2012.01.29, 22:04:12
I've Snap build 505 which seems to be the last. Just installed 3.1.8 over it and identifies itself again with build no. 505.

I tested WinOS2 the same as you, on screen 1, maximize minimize works as expected. But WinOS2 message boxes (?) like the WIN-OS/2-Setup dialog in the WIN-OS/2-main group (Hauptgruppe) positions itself at the middle of the two screens but partly behind other OS/2 windows. Seems it is drawn first at screen center (middle of two screens) and then moved to the center of screen 1 as at that place there are redraw problems when moving OS/2 windows over it. And the WinOS2 dialog/window is not usable - does not react on mouse clicks neither at screen center (middle of the two screens) nor in the middle of screen 1.

It's eCS2.1DE with ATI X300 and otherwise works quite well. Please check your snap build level.
I'm not sure if graphics has to do with your problem. Be sure that in your config.sys you have

DEVICE=C:\OS2\MDOS\VMOUSE.SYS
DEVICE=C:\OS2\BOOT\POINTDD.SYS
DEVICE=C:\OS2\BOOT\MOUSE.SYS

VMOUSE.SYS is necessary to use the mouse/pen in DOS/Win-16/Win-0S/2 sessions.
POINTDD.SYS is necessary for providing mouse-pointer draw support.
MOUSE.SYS is the OS/2-eCS physical mouse driver.

This setup is needed in THIS ORDER if you want seamless integration of your
mouse in OS/2-eCS, OS/2-eCS sessions, Win-16/Win-OS/2 sessions and DOS
sessions.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Joop on 2012.01.29, 22:06:33
I doubt Windows 3.1 has a mechanism to store the window positions - or sizes it seems.
Yes, it does.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: RobertM on 2012.01.29, 22:39:55
I doubt Windows 3.1 has a mechanism to store the window positions - or sizes it seems.
Yes, it does.

For programs, yes.

Do you know where such exists for folders?

Then, after that, I'd say the next thing is to figure out how to translate that into OS/2 specific information for the OS/2 windows drawn as WinOS2 windows.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Andi on 2012.01.30, 10:17:40
I doubt Windows 3.1 has a mechanism to store the window positions - or sizes it seems.
Yes, it does.

For programs, yes.

Do you know where such exists for folders?

Then, after that, I'd say the next thing is to figure out how to translate that into OS/2 specific information for the OS/2 windows drawn as WinOS2 windows.
Would be fine if it would work for programs. It's very nasty that the WinOS2 programs  I use  (PicturePublisher, Cadvance...) constantly starts nearly full screen (across both 24") and I've to resize it every time to the size I like to work with. Is there some setting to enable storing last window size I overlooked?

Anyway the bug I reported above is even more annoying...
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: RobertM on 2012.01.30, 20:55:08
The mechanism for storing position and size must be in use in the program. Since the seamless OS/2 windows being redressed are not being treated (by OS/2) as OS/2 objects, I do not know of a way of using that capability. As it is, in the Win 3.1 world, it seems that ability was largely used to size and/or position sub windows or toolbars, which does work properly. Win 3.1 wasn't really written with dual monitor support in mind.
Title: Re: Graphics card
Post by: Andi on 2012.03.27, 19:50:07
Quote
- when the cursor is on the second display the arrow also appears at the very left side of the primary display
This is when hardware cursor acceleration is enabled. 'gaoption accel most' to switch off and the mouse problem disappers.