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OS/2 - Technical => Applications => Topic started by: bottomtop on 2012.07.19, 23:37:26

Title: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: bottomtop on 2012.07.19, 23:37:26
Hello,

I don't know if this is just me, but I am trying to use estyler (in Ecs 2.1) and WPS wizard.

(1) When the desktop is about to load at boot, I get an undoable system freeze.  But if i reboot to the commandline to disable estyler (rename its 2 *.dll's to *.old), it works.

(2) I also get a WPS freeze (clock stops, can't interact with anything although mouse moves) if I click on "open containing folder) in the firefox 10 download box.  Not a problem when e-styler alone is running.  Only a problem when WPS wizard is running.

(3) I also get a WPS freeze (clock stops, can't interact with anything although mouse moves) if I attempt to open a folder from the command line using the folder program (http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/h-viewer.php?dir=/pub/os2/util/wps&file=folder10.zip&backto=%2Fh-search.php%3Fkey%3Dfolder (http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/h-viewer.php?dir=/pub/os2/util/wps&file=folder10.zip&backto=%2Fh-search.php%3Fkey%3Dfolder)). Not a problem when e-styler alone is running.  Only a problem when WPS wizard is running.

I'd like to be able to capture some diagnostic data, then maybe find a way to give it to the developers of WPS Wizard and Estyler (i.e. do something useful for them) but I don't know how to do this. 
Title: Re: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: Pete on 2012.07.20, 02:05:06
Hi

I never had much success with WPSWizard and was not impressed with the lack of support to resolve the issues.

My advice would be to uninstall that software and see if the problems go away with the uninstall.


Regards

Pete
Title: Re: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: aschn on 2012.07.20, 19:08:56
OS/2 is apparently unable to support both X/eWP(S) and WPS Wizard on
many installations. There exists no design problem of both of them why
they can't coexist, but in most cases the lack of Shared Memory leads
to the situation that either of them works only. If you try to use
OOo, Virtual PC, Mozilla, Java or Qt additionally, the situation gets
worse.

Less WPS is more.

Andreas
Title: Re: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: abwillis on 2012.07.20, 20:05:26
Hmm, I run WPS-Wizard, e-styler, styler/2, XWorkplace (full not as shipped with eCS), and dragtext .  I used to also run NPSWPS (I think that was the name) but only used one feature from it, everything else I wanted was duplicated with one of these others. 
Title: Re: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: Andi on 2012.07.21, 12:07:46
AFAIR there is a known problem when turbo folders is activated in xwp and wpswiz. I've working both xwp and wpswiz on my notebooks (without turbo folders). But had no success installing wpswiz on my main dual core machine so far.....
Title: Re: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: bottomtop on 2012.07.22, 23:27:54
Hello Andi thank you for your reply.  Excuse my ignorance, but what is Turbo folders?
Title: Re: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: Andi on 2012.07.23, 19:52:55
Quote
Excuse my ignorance, but what is Turbo folders?
Title: Re: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: bottomtop on 2012.07.23, 23:04:42
I see..thanks.  This appears to be a feature in XWP but not EWP.
Title: Re: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: abwillis on 2012.07.23, 23:38:40
I see..thanks.  This appears to be a feature in XWP but not EWP.
That is correct, it is not considered stable enough to add to ewp.  Also, it changes the way file associations work... I never could get used to the change (used to be a separate option but they found that turbo folders needed the file associations to achieve any level of stability.
Title: Re: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: aschn on 2012.07.24, 00:11:30
I see..thanks.  This appears to be a feature in XWP but not EWP.
That is correct, it is not considered stable enough to add to ewp.  Also, it changes the way file associations work... I never could get used to the change (used to be a separate option but they found that turbo folders needed the file associations to achieve any level of stability.

Turbo Folders never was stable enough, it's still not complete, while the Extended Associations already worked well. Ulrich decided to combine them, probably because of easier maintenance.
Title: Re: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: bottomtop on 2012.07.24, 10:53:06
I have now:
De -installed WPS Wizard
De - installed Ewp
Re - enabled Estyler
Re installed WPS Wizard
Installed X workplace
Run Check INI

I made sure the Turbo Folders was not selected.   Things are much more stable now, but the actions that provoked problems make the WPS restart, rather than bringing down the system altogether.   Which is good.  What is bad is that once I click on an Icon, it changes and defaults back to what it was before WPS Wizard was installed (i.e. fancy icon disappears).  Also, the preview/information space no longer provides image previews (JPG etc), only PDF previews.  Odd behaviour!


Title: Re: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: DougB on 2012.07.24, 19:09:03
I have got to ask: Why do you want to use WPS Wizard?

I tried it years ago, and got it off my machine as quickly as I could. I would never use it again, simply because it does all of the bad things that you are describing. I can't say that I have ever missed it.
Title: Re: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: Pete on 2012.07.24, 22:16:28
Hi Doug

When I reported problems with WPS Wizard the developer responded that his programming was fine therefore there must be something wrong with my system and he was unable to help.

It is possible that the developer was correct and there could have been something wrong with my system that caused no problems for any other software. However installing WPS Wizard to a new eCS installation (no migration) made no difference.

As the developer was not interested in resolving the issues I simply gave up with WPS Wizard and can only advise others to do the same.


Regards

Pete



Title: Re: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: aschn on 2012.07.24, 22:51:56
the developer

"The developer" is just Chris, that person who created the NOM thing.

We had much too many developer-bashing situations here in the past
years, so please try to understand (and accept - it's OSS/freeware)
Chris' position.

So, either it works for you or not.
Title: Re: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: aschn on 2012.07.24, 23:01:19
I tried it years ago, and got it off my machine as quickly as I could.
I would never use it again, simply because it does all of the bad
things that you are describing. I can't say that I have ever missed
it.

I miss many features of it. Adding it to my WPS never worked stable
for a longer time, but I always run other WPS enhancers (at least XWP)
additionally.

I had WPS Wizard once running stable for a longer time coexisting with
XWP. But times changed and I use much more Shared Memory then in those
past days (e.g. Mozilla apps). These days Mozilla and OOo can't be run
simultaneously on any of my installation, at least not stable or for a
longer time. So, why should I bother with adding WPS Wizard to my WPS
utils? First, the main apps have to work - and they unfortunately don't.
Title: Re: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: DougB on 2012.07.24, 23:32:53
Quote
"The developer" is just Chris, that person who created the NOM thing.

Reference to "NOM"?? I don't recall that.

Chris also did AudioCDCreator, which works reasonably well. When you install the last version of ACDC, it complains that WPS Wizard is not installed, but it still installs, and works okay, without it. Apparently, there are some menu items that are missing, but it is obvious that they are not required.

Quote
So, either it works for you or not.

Unfortunately, that seems to be what happens when you have a program from a single developer, and it is closed source. If you have a problem, you are often ignored, unless the developer can, easily, reproduce the problem (even then, they can decide that it isn't worth the effort to fix it, or, they can just walk away). I suspect that this sort of thing is the main reason why Martin insists that all projects need to be open source.

Meanwhile, it seems that WPS Wizard works for some, and if it doesn't, the only option is to remove it, and find another way to do what you want. I would suggest that the OP should uninstall WPS Wizard, and find another way to do whatever it is that they want it to do.

Quote
These days Mozilla and OOo can't be run simultaneously on any of my installation

I don't have trouble with running Firefox 10.0.5 and OOo 3.2 (Text document) together. I also have lots of shared memory space left over (shown by Above512). The secret seems to be to abandon HPFS, and use only JFS (as shipped with eCS 2.1). I also use FAT32 for compatibility with windows (I do NOT use cachef32.exe with it), but HPFS seems to use up a lot of shared memory space that can be used elsewhere. Today, the big shared memory space hog is ClamD (ClamAV), but it seems to use the more plentiful upper shared memory space, so it hasn't been a problem, yet.
Title: Re: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: aschn on 2012.07.24, 23:40:52
I don't have trouble with running Firefox 10.0.5 and OOo 3.2 (Text
document) together.

OK. I found that table docs lead sooner to those problems.

I also have lots of shared memory space left over (shown by Above512).

That tool apparently doesn't work reliable when it comes to detect
cases with rare Shared Memory

The secret seems to be to abandon HPFS, and use only JFS (as shipped
with eCS 2.1).

No, not here: I don't use HPFS any more since many years.
Title: Re: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: bottomtop on 2012.07.24, 23:49:15
I have got to ask: Why do you want to use WPS Wizard?

I like the fancy Icons, the transparent tips and the PDF and image preview features.   It makes me thinks somebody has gone to some effort to make Ecs look a little more modern and I appreciate that effort.

Having said that, I don't understand programming or how the software works (nor do I understand what shared memory is).   The reason for my post to was to see if anybody knew how I could capture information (like logs or other debugging information) that the developer might find useful, and put it in a place they could access it because I couldn't figure out how to put things in the "tickets" part of the WPSWizard website.  

I know the software is free and I don't make any demand/criticism that the developer must fix my problems, but want the experts to have information in a form that  might be useful to them if they want/intend to release a future version at some point.  I think that if somebody wants to make free software for a community of users, it is more helpful to give them feedback they can use (i.e. something in proper technical language, not just  "it doesn't work"), should they wish to continue the project.
Title: Re: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: DougB on 2012.07.25, 06:43:51
Quote
It makes me thinks somebody has gone to some effort to make Ecs look a little more modern and I appreciate that effort.

I seem to recall, that WPS Wizard existed before eCS did, as did XWorkPlace (which morphed into eWorkPlace). WPS Wizard  did not gain much popularity because of many problems, and because the author was pretty picky about what he acknowledged as a problem. Basically, if he couldn't make something fail, it didn't get fixed. I can understand that, because I too find it difficult to fix something that isn't broken. However, some attempt to understand a problem, and fix it, needs to be made anyway. I also remember that the author didn't much like anybody claiming that his software was less than perfect, so he "packed up his toys, and went home". Sorry, but I can't think of a nicer way to put it, and that has happened more than once.

Quote
The reason for my post to was to see if anybody knew how I could capture information (like logs or other debugging information) that the developer might find useful

There are many ways to help software developers improve their products. Unfortunately, there is no good set of instructions about how to go about it, and far too many developers seem to think they don't have the time to coach those who want to help, but have no idea how to go about it (I suspect that you fall into that category). Of course, those who don't know what to do should take some effort to learn, before they start bothering a developer. If you follow the entries in the bug report areas, for a while, to see what the developers want, and then learn how to reproduce reported problems, with supporting documentation, you should pick up the basics. You should also see what they tend to ignore  ;D

I think you would be better off to pick a more current project, with more "user friendly" developers., and follow the project for a while to see how you can help, and how to go about it. Trying to help with a project that is apparently abandoned by the developer is probably not going to do anybody any good. It is sort of like offering to help Ford motor company improve on the 1976 Thunderbird.

There are more important projects that seem to need help. A couple that come to mind are eCUPS, and SAMBA. User testing, and problem report feedback, is needed. Printer, and networking, support, would seem to be a little more important than "eye candy" in the overall picture. Some would disagree, but if a system can't support the basics, it really doesn't matter how good it looks. Nobody is going to use it.

As the old saying goes: "If you can't make it work, make it look good". I would rather make it work.

Above all, keep it civil. Making demands of a developer (especially one who is voluntarily doing the work), is not going to make them feel wanted. Of course, that is a two way street.
Title: Re: WPS Wizard and Estyler / WPS Wizard and Firefox
Post by: aschn on 2012.07.25, 21:40:20
There exist always people who don't learn from the past. :-(