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Messages - djcaetano

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121
Comments, Suggestions & Questions / Re: New kernel
« on: 2008.12.18, 14:23:08 »

  Hi Pete,

Hi djcaetano
You state earlier in this thread "Also, no changes on using SMP and OS/4 Kernel: enabling SMP
detection on ACPI caused the system to freeze when starting to process the RUN statements of CONFIG.SYS."

  Just to clear my statement, using SMP with IBM's SMP kernel sometimes causes a freeze.
Using SMP with OS/4 SMP kernel always causes a freeze.

Can I ask what switches were in use on the PSD= line? and also what mainboard chipset is involved?

  No problem. My PSD line is:

  PSD=ACPI.PSD /SMP /APIC

  I had tested other parameters some months ago, but no luck. Any suggestions?
  The chipset is Intel G31 Express (north bridge) and Intel ICH7 (south bridge).

Might also be worth checking exactly where the system gets stuck... do you have an empty text file called ALTF2ON.$$$ in the root directory of your boot drive?  If not create 1 with a text editor - simply save an empty file to that drive:\path\filename - and see if that helps identify where the boot stops.

  Well, in fact I had already did this test. It freezes always in the moment it will execute the first RUN statement. I had already tried to change the order of previous statements and it freezes in the same place (on the first RUN statement). I modified the order of RUN lines on config.sys and the boot keeps freezing on the first RUN statement.
  I seems a problem related to the way RUN statement is processed by the kernel. Weird, huh?
  I'll do some more tests later. With OS/4 kernel it is easier to test, since it always hangs in that
place.

I also note that you are using ACPI v3.11 - might be worth updating that to v3.14 (the latest, v3.7 is awhile away I think :-)

   Yes, I have to renew the eCS "software subscription".
   Anyway, this boot-freeze problem is being a constant since earlier versions of ACPI, never changed a bit. And the freeze only happens when using SMP kernel. With UNI kernel the boot is always flawlessly completed.
   As soon as possible (probably next month) I will renew my subscription and test the new ACPI version.

122
Comments, Suggestions & Questions / Re: New kernel
« on: 2008.12.18, 02:00:20 »
 
   Hi!

How do you run smp kernel on singlecore with no acpi?

  There is nothing special about it. If you simply install SMP DOSCALL1.DLL,
SMP kernel and the loader that comes with SMP kernel, it will run (at least
on OS/2 versions 4.52 and above).  8)
  BTW, if UNI is really a "fixed" SMP for single processor, why one have
to exchange DOSCALL1.DLL to use SMP kernel? And why DOSCALL1.DLL
for SMP doesn't work with UNI kernel? ???
  (I am not talking about W4 kernel, which I abandoned a long time ago)

btw. I think (but not sure, it hit my eyes in some docs) the recent releases of ecs2 come with slightly modified (i.e different) kernels - to work better,or obviously just work, with acpi - so they are no longer original ibm kernels from acp2...

  Well, OpenChat/2 worked with ACP2 SMP kernel (on ACP) and with
eCS 2.0 RC5 SMP kernel (on eCS).

...Please use the OS/4 kernel with its new loader OS2LDR only, otherwise
the correct booting is not expected....
and about loader
...ACPI less than 3.7 may not work with OS2LDR (CB)
So it looks you must install acpi 3.7 at least to expect success with the os/4. 

  I had read and re-read the readmes. In fact, I always read and re-read every
doc before testing those things. :)
  I don't know if the new loader and kernel work with with ACPI 3.7 or
older... but it certainly work NOT using ACPI... but the only proof I have
about it is the fact I was able to run it here. :)
  In my single core machine It is able to boot UNI, SMP and OS/4 kernels.  :)

  But the problem I mentioned about openchat exists even using ACPI 3.11 (on
eCS, with multicore CPU running as single core, since I was not able to finish
the boot on multicore mode).
  It seems the problem is not on the loader, but probably with the patch on OS/4
kernel, which fails in a specific situation on two completely different machines
and OS/2 configurations (three, after your test). It should *run* or *not run*
OpenChat/2..., but never freeze and hang.  :-\

Another thing is a fact that openchat/2 freezes my systems which meets all requirements. Why? No idea. But how can you see that program was on suspicious_list, at least to acpi_smp  developers, so it has impose some troubles in the past.

  On previous SMP kernels OpenChat/2 sometimes report an error upon loading and
is closed by the operating system. This is the behavior I would expect... not a
"system freeze" behavior.  :o

Yes it might be the reason, but as long as the problem is only with openchat/2 - it is meaningless.
This downgrade can be also simply getting off some dirty_patches  or some undocumented stuff from ibm.
It might be also that openchat/2 use some dirty hacks... 
Anyway, to me such issues with backward compatibility are "normal" and are acceptable price for having kernel developed again after rather long brake. (the last official from ibm are over 3 years old....)

  I am not criticizing the new kernel, I am trying to help it to evolve.
  About being meaningless, I do not think it is meaningless when a ring 3 app can freeze the
entire Operating System, no mater what "dirty tricks" it does, no mater how few people uses
this application. It is kernel's job to configure the CPU environment so an application
cannot freeze the system this way.  ::)

  The system has to resist even when applications are miserably programmed. This is
the core of "memory protection" feature. :D

123
Comments, Suggestions & Questions / Re: New kernel
« on: 2008.12.17, 16:36:57 »
djcaetano wrote "....(*) Running SMP kernel on a single core machine is somewhat stupid and is not
as good as running UNI kernel. I did it only as a test..."
...
well, it's not that stupid given the fact uni kernels are smp kernels with fixed number of processors set to 1...

  Humm... I don't believe so. If that were the case, it was just a matter of letting SMP kernel
detect only one processor and "that's all folks".
  In my experience along the years, I noticed performance problems when using SMP kernel
instead of UNI kernel (on a single-core machine). The most noticeable was achieved when
playing MP3 with Z! and using FireFox. Whenever a webpage "eats" 100% of CPU power,
the music being played by Z! stops until FireFox release some CPU power. This is not
what happens when using UNI (or even W4) kernel.
  I believe some scheduler rules are different on SMP kernel, optimized for two or more CPUs,
while UNI kernel scheduler rules are optimized for a single CPU.

  This thought is also based in my knowledge about operating systems internals and
based on what most IBM engineers said about OS/2 kernels along the history...
   ...and of course, because I do not believe IBM would spent time, money and workers
to develop and maintain two (or three) different kernels if they were all the same. :D

so, I'm sitting here on single core of somewhat aging celeron 2.2ghz (northwood) which has turn out to be smp capable...
at least to os2 acpi subsystem routines (i saw this indication first time on ecs rc4 in acpi wizard - so no waiting a while i did install smp kernel and to my surprise everything worked like a charm) of course acpi needed smp switch as well apic  and cd (crazy devices) on. Once I did it I've never experience no problems from kernel. When I did install ecs rc5 the acpi wizard detected my system as non-smp capable... so I had to install smp kernel manually... and again not a single problem from kernel on boot...(genmac here with 3com905c, sblive! on sander driver 0.8.2 (smp capable), scitech snap driving radeon 9600)

  IBM's SMP kernel work ok on my single core machine (at home), despite these little
performance problems. Besides that, not a single problem arises.  ::)

Another interesting fact regarding kernel is in newer builds of ecs (rc6 and up - that needs checking I'm still on rc5) there will be smp kernel installed as default... on single core initializing 1 processor... so no more mess with doscall1.dll for both types of kernel.
That's attitude is not stupid at all, as you may wish to carry your harddisk to another machine with more cores than one - and you will have working system out of the box.
So my system was prepared and adjusted to sport smp kernel when I was trying the "new" one from os/4 - and no surprises what did work still do works. So dig a little more in acpi details as there might be a cue. Another thing is if openchat does run on smp kernel at all...   

  Well, I believe that eCS should use SMP kernel only when multi-core is available,
but I understand that some reasons may lead Serenity to adopt only one version
of the kernel - in this case, the SMP one:

   a) It is easier and cheaper to maintain only one system configuration.
   b) SMP kernel runs on single-core CPUs.
   c) SMP kernel allows multi-core CPUs.
   d) ACPI seems to be happier about SMP kernel.
   e) Most computers sold nowadays are multi-core.
   f) Those unhappy with SMP can always switch to (maybe unsupported) UNI kernel.

  But, after all, what I am trying to say is:

  * At home (single core, ACP2) I do not run ACPI at all. OpenChat/2 works with W4, UNI and SMP kernels from IBM. OpenChat/2 hangs the system with OS/4 Kernel.
  * At work (quad core, eCSRC4 updated with elements of RC5) I run ACPI. OpenChat/2 works with W4, UNI and SMP, both in single core mode and multi-core mode. OpenChat/2 hangs the system with OS/4 Kernel.

   This can be translated as: "there is something weird on the patch applied to the SMP kernel", and I did tests to say that. The problem arises on two completely different machines with two completely different OS/2 setups, causing exactly the same behavior which is not desirable: a system hang when running a 100% ring 3 application.  :o

   Note: I am not saying there is a general protection fault (SYS3175) or any kind of error message: it is a complete hang situation. The system simply stops... not even pings are replied after the hang.  :-[

  I just mentioned this problem here because I think it is a relevant report. I do not complained at the site suggested in the readme for two reasons:
 
  a) The page returns 404 error
  b) The site is written entirely in russian language
 
  Anyway, I welcome any suggestions to try to avoid or correct something to make the system runs nicely (such as the good DLLBASING tip). :)

124
Comments, Suggestions & Questions / Re: New kernel
« on: 2008.12.17, 14:31:26 »

  Hi Joachim,

Since I added the following line to my config.sys I have had no more issues running OpenChat/2:
DLLBASING=ON

  Humm... I added DLLBASING=ON in my config.sys and it seems there
were some improvements (since OpenChat/2 trapped a little less
on IBM SMP Kernel), but no changes using OS/4 Kernel running with
SMP detection disabled on ACPI: a complete hang (no messages,
nothing... the system just freezes).

   Also, no changes on using SMP and OS/4 Kernel: enabling SMP
detection on ACPI caused the system to freeze when starting to
process the RUN statements of CONFIG.SYS.

   Anyway, thanks for you and for those working on this binary
kernel patch (as described on readme).

125
Comments, Suggestions & Questions / Re: New kernel
« on: 2008.12.16, 23:34:12 »
It seems to run fine on my system. RC6a, acpi 3.14, Core2Quad and Panorama.

  Please, test if OpenChat/2 works.
  It (somewhat) works on IBM's SMP kernel. I got a bad hang state running it
on OS/4 kernel in two different machines. The first was the one I mentioned before...
And now I have tested it here, in my home machine (nForce2 chipset, Athlon XP 2600+;
running Warp ACP2 - 4.52) with the same result (running SMP DOSCALL1.DLL
and OS/4 Kernel). Replacing OS/4 Kernel with IBM OS/2 14.104a SMP kernel and
than running OpenChat/2 worked well*.

  It seems OS/4 kernel has some kind of "downgrade" which prevents OpenChat/2
from running.

Links to download openchat** + gemz:
http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/apps/internet/irc/client/ochat107.zip
http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/apps/internet/irc/script/gz-312a.zip

(*) Running SMP kernel on a single core machine is somewhat stupid and is not
as good as running UNI kernel. I did it only as a test.
(**) I am using OpenChat/2 1.08, but it is not available at Hobbes. I don't know
the reason. But I do not believe the result running 1.07 will be different from
running 1.08.

126
Comments, Suggestions & Questions / Re: New kernel
« on: 2008.12.16, 15:11:32 »
If somebody want to test ftp://Linking to this site is not permitted on our forums/os2krnlSVN1009.zip ;)

  These are great news!
  I tested the new kernel, but my results are not-so-good.
  First of all, I would like to tell I am running eCS RC4 using SMP mode, in a Core2Quad machine, 2GB of RAM. The motherboard is a GA-G31M-S2L. I am using Panorama with the onboard Intel video. Network is an RTL8139.
  Also, I would like to tell eCS RC4 kernel usually hangs on boot, just before it executes the RUN statements. After some resets (three or four, usually) it boots ok.
  Well, the behavior with this new kernel is pretty much the same, besides the fact it *always* hangs in that place, no matter what.
 
  I was only able to boot to command line, where RTL8139 driver is not loaded, but I have not checked if it is the faulty one. I will do the test right now.

***UPDATE***

  I tested the system without RTL8139 driver, but the results were the same. Tried removing several drivers... but it was a no-go.
  Removing the "SMP" parameter on ACPI.PSD (causing the system to boot using only one processor, but still using SMP doscall1), the system boot "ok", but when I loaded OpenChat/2... the system hung... which is not normal. OC/2 has know problems when running which more than one processor (it will not always open without generating a SYS3175), but never presented any problems running on single processor (even with SMP kernels).
   Just to complete the system description, each core is running at 2.4GHz, and I am running ACPI 3.11 and APM 1.26 (they are somewhat old, but software subscription has ended and I had not updated it yet.

*** UPDATE2 ***
 
   I was just thinking... it would be nice to move some Kernel configuration parameters from CONFIG.SYS to OS4KRNL.INI, such as CLOCKSCALE, BUFFERS, EARLYMEMINIT...

127
Hardware / Re: LCD Display StandBy
« on: 2008.11.18, 23:05:21 »
I had an ATI X300 in my old system. The DVI interface would not put the monitor to sleep, while the other interface did. I had to replace the motherboard, a few days ago, and the new MB (Asus M3A78-EM, with AMD Phenom triple core processor) comes with
(...)
the settings yourself, you can get it into a setting that the monitor doesn't know about, and then you will have to try to get it working again, without being able to see what you are doing.

  Same problem here... Now I had discovered some interesting things:

a) Using DVI G550 output to TV HDMI connector
    a1) Windows will work ok but will not do 1680x1050 resolution. Stand by seems to be working.
    a2) OS/2 will hang on WPS loading, no mater what (blank screen with blinking cursor on top-left)
b) Using HD-15 G550 output to TV HD-15 connector
   a1) Windows do 1680x1050, but Stand by do not work anymore.
   a2) OS/2 will run ok at 1680x1050, but no standby also.

  Damn it. And I was thinking on keep my PC attached to HDMI input... but the native
resolution is not supported bu HDMI interface (what a shame).
  Now I will have to buy an expensive HD-15 switch to keep two machines connected to the same
monitor (I do have one, but it is old, and the image focus is lost when using it).

  And... no stand by for me. Ah, Doodle Screen Saver did it right, the "no signal" is reported
when Doodle Screen Saver is in action. But even after several minutes... the monitor will not
go to standby state.

  What had LG in mind when designed a TV/Monitor that can't be commanded to stand by?
...

128
Hardware / Re: LCD Display StandBy
« on: 2008.11.18, 02:25:02 »
It seems your LCD supports two modes... on and standby ("off")... so perhaps DSSaver will do the trick, either by not sending video, or by sending only the DPMS off state.
LG 22LG30

  I am a bit scared of testing DPMS again, since two times I had enabled it (on SNAP settings) I had problems:
next time I rebooted the system, the monitor was disabled as soon as WPS started.

  I had to revert to GENGRADD, delete SDDCFG.SAV, boot, change the monitor to something like
1280x1024 monitor, change the resolution to a lower one... reboot, and then reinstall SNAP. I had
tried several tricks, and nothing corrected the problem, besides the steps above.
  I had tracked the problem to the following: this LG TV is not listed on monitor list. When I call "detect
monitor", a new entry LG LCD TV is added... but if I check the DPMS box (which is left unchecked
by "detect monitor"), close the notebook and open it again, the monitor selected is a usual CRT
monitor, which support 120Hz of vertical refresh, which is something unsupported by this LCD TV
(support refresh rates are 60Hz, 70Hz and 75Hz).

   Well, this is why I'm somewhat scared about playing with DPMS.
   But I'll try DSSaver, since it seems the lack of video signal really makes this monitor goes
Stand By after a few seconds.

  Thanks! :)

129
Hardware / LCD Display StandBy
« on: 2008.11.17, 21:02:10 »

   There has been many years since I first tried to configure OS/2/APM to make the monitor switch into stand-by mode after some inactivity minutes, but I had never succeeded.
   Anyone knows if this is possible? I am using OS/2 Warp 4.52 (MCP2), with the latest UNI kernel.

   FYI, the monitor is a new LCD TV/Monitor by LG (22LG30), which reports itself as "Non-DPMS compliant"... but Windows XP *can* switch it into stand-by, even using a "generic" monitor configuration (I was not able to find a Windows driver to use with this TV/Monitor).

  Thanks in advance!

130
Hello Mr. Caetano,
Would like to see a folder sample to create a download folder class (torrents, mms-streams, download etc.) eCS and Bittorrent, but some dislike the idea to take advantage of the OS/2-eCS way SOM provide.

  This is one of the things in my "to-do" list. :)

What are you trying to code and what kind of samples are you looking for?
Hope we can help an expert as you!  :)

  In fact, I am trying to add some improvements on WPDisk class. :)

131
I'll note that one thing that looks impossible is... using most flash content - Flash Player 5 is the current version? Granted, this means no flash ads, but it also means that flash content that you want to use isn't usable.
Let's say I want to watch a YouTube video, something I do quite often. Unless there's a secret version of Flash Player 8 that I don't know about... I have to go to a YouTube downloader, download the video, and then play the FLV in mplayer. That seems like a ridiculously roundabout way of doing things...

  Current Flash on OS/2 is Flash 7 (whatever). Most Flash 8 content work on it. Even som Flash 9.
  Anyway, these "ever changing" technologies that impregnates Windows world is one thing I really do not like.
  I really hope someone propose a open and free (and popular) alternative to Flash.

  My Wii, for example, has not support to Flash 8. And there is nothing I can do about it.
  But I do not think I have to blame Nintendo. I have to blame Adobe/Macromedia *and* Website developers, that require newest technologies even when a previous one will work great.

Oh, and one more thing... I know this is one hell of a stretch, but...
Quote from: djcaetano
Windows has not the WPS
For some values of Windows (all of them being 3.1x,) it actually does have the WPS.

  Well, this is a BIIIIIIIG stretch. WPS for Windows 3.1 only looks like WPS. And has some of the WPS feel. But that's all. :)

  It is installed in my WinOS/2, though. :)

132
I mean, what could really be done to improve on OS/2?

  Improve UI? I dunno. The only things I could think of were:

  - Clearing the last bugs (and I include MMOS/2 and a better solution for the
SIQ in this category)
  - Improve (update) the look.

   On the core system there are a lot of updates needed (better support for huge
amounts of memory, improved support for recent hardware, more more and more
drivers, and so on).

  BTW, about "lack of software", I seldom need something that is not available on
OS/2. One of them is AutoCad (because I never had time to learn MicroStation,
and BlueCad is just too damn limited - no 3D); another one is BlueMSX (or
OpenMSX), an MSX Emulator I use to test some hobby-software I develop.
   Both of them I am able to run inside VirtualPC, so it is not a real big concern
(the only problem is the keyboard input doesn't work for BlueMSX).

   Most of times I have to boot VirtualPC is due to some Windoze user that
sends me a file to work on that is for a "windows-only-software". But otherwise,
I always try to find on Windows the same software I use on OS/2. PMMail,
KON, Mr.ED, OpenWatcom, FireFox, Mercury Messenger, Embellish,
Lotus SmartSuite or OpenOffice, JUDE, Squeak, PMView, Z!, DFSee,
LarsenCommander, Apache, MySQL, PHP, OpenChat, ZOC... the list is BIG!
  The differences from them to most Windows-only software are:

  - They do exist on my main plataform (OS/2) and on my secondary Windoze)
  - They are able to exchange files keeping the data (no need to reformat a document)
  - Some of them are not usually updated, but they all work good
  - Most of them have not "that many features", but have the features I use and
    are sufficient to get the job done.

   If they are available on Windows, why not use Windows? Because:

   - They usually works better (and faster) on OS/2
   - Windows has not the WPS
   - Even using windows, most people do not use them, so the "compatibility problem"
keeps untouched.
   - Windows has not the WPS
   - Many of the software that are available at OS/2 and Windows support REXX
scripts on OS/2, but have nothing similar on Windows.
   - Windows has not the WPS
   - There are too many viruses and trojans on Windows
   - Windows has not the WPS
   - I do not need a computer for gaming (I have a PS2 and an Wii for gaming)
   - Windows has not the WPS

   I believe these are the main reasons. :D
   I could think about more reasons, but I am feeling lazy right now. :P

133
Comments, Suggestions & Questions / Re: New kernel
« on: 2008.11.07, 19:39:32 »
I don't know if this is possible, but an improved support to memory management would be great.
The kernel we are using now is too damn limited when it comes to upper memory management. It is very common (mainly when using ODIN apps) receive an "out-of-memory" error when only 300MB out of 2GB are being used by applications.

I don't know if it is possible, but another cool thing would be a way to update PATH, LIBPATH and other PATHs system-wide without the need to reboot the system.

Well, these are my first two wishes. :)

134
Did you check the Electronic Developers Magazine/2 site? http://www.edm2.com/index.php/Main_Page Here is a section on SOM. http://www.edm2.com/index.php/SOM

In fact, I had already read most of those articles, many are related to old SOM compiler, but it seems there is a new article there. I will take a look again (the last time I tried it was about 6 months ago) and try to get more specific about the problems I am fighting with. :)

Anyway, thanks. :)

135
Programming / Programming the WPS (using SOM compiler)
« on: 2008.11.03, 21:10:54 »

   Some months have passed since I started collecting data on how to program the
WPS using SOM Compiler, but it seems a lot have changed on several versions
of SOM (1.x, 2.0 and 2.x), and I was not able to create anything running ok.
   I had found several tutorials, but they seem to be written for some older version
of SOM compiler than that comes with Toolkit 4.5. Everything I got were errors.

  Anyone knows about an updated how-to program WPS objects using modern
SOM ("modern" means the one available on Toolkit 4.5).

  Thanks in advance!

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