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Messages - DougB

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31
Article Discussions / Re: ACPI version 3.20.03 released
« on: 2012.07.08, 18:09:50 »
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The T43 2xxx is supported by APM, and that's what makes those machines special

I don't know about "special". It does seem that the T43 2xxx series does support ACPI. Possibly APM too (I don't know for sure). You can use the ACPI utilities SETGETSTATE and SETGETTHRTL to determine if the machine supports those functions (you do need ACPI loaded to do the tests). If it does, you can use them to reduce power consumption, which also reduces heat output, and extends battery life.

My old Coolman prototype used both of those, when they would work, but REXX and external programs, are really too limited to be really effective. I found that SETGETSTATE did more to reduce power consumption than SETGETTHRTL does. The new ACPI power management appears to use throttling, but not the STATE settings. I am not sure exactly what throttling does, but the STATE settings reduce the machine clock speed, which lets the hardware work with less power consumption, but it is slower. The new ACPI has added a new twist, that I never thought of (probably because I was working with a single core machine), and that is to turn off all but one core of a SMP machine. Now, they have also added the use of the HLT command, to further reduce power consumption. Of course, with all of these methods, there needs to be a way to speed it up when the power is needed, and slow it again when the demand is not there. ACPI, using throttling, core reduction, and HLT, seems to work great on SMP machines, but it is far less effective on single core machines. You can effectively measure the effectiveness of these techniques by monitoring the system temperature. For example, my Asus M3A78-EM, with quad core Phenom processor, runs at about 59C (138F), with no power control. With throttling, it runs at about 55C (131F). When it uses throttling, and core reduction, it runs at about 42C (107F). Add HLT , and it runs at about 38C (100F). While the machine claims to have two STATE settings, SETGETSTATE cannot change them, for some reason (although, I haven't tried that with the new ACPI).

My IBM ThinkPad T43 (1871-W8M - single core), runs at about 72C (161F) with no power control. With throttling only, it runs at about 62C (143F). Add HLT, and it runs at about 58C (136F). Of course, core reduction is not possible with a single core machine, so that is what ACPI can do for it. Now, if I use SETGETSTATE to set it to the slowest clock speed, it runs at about 42C (107F). The battery life is extended with each step too, and, of course, the T43 doesn't cook your legs, if you use it on your lap, until you run a program that speeds it up for more than a few seconds.   :)

My Lenovo ThinkPad T510 (dual core, running with hyperthreading enabled - contrary to suggestions in the ACPI package), runs at about 62C (144F) with no power control. Throttling knocks it down to about 52C (125F), core reduction goes to about 48C (118F), and HLT goes to about 43C (109F). SETGETSTATE does not work. Note that I use hyperthreading because it makes Win7 work MUCH better. It doesn't seem to do much (good, or bad) for eCS, so I just leave it enabled.

Of course, suspend/resume is not usable with any of them. On the other hand, I have an antique IBM ThinkPad A22e that has full APM support, and it does suspend/resume, and hybernation (full power off, with very quick recovery), with no problem (the BIOS actually does it, with a little support from the OS). It does not do power reduction though. It has no support for ACPI, and it will cook your legs if you use it on your lap.

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Article Discussions / Re: ACPI version 3.20.03 released
« on: 2012.07.08, 16:49:18 »
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Roderick: Should I open a ticket requesting support for my board's temperature sensors through ACPI?

I am not Roderick, but... Did you try changing the widget motherboard setting from "ACPI standard" to "Asus P5B"? That works for my Asus M3A78-EM motherboard.

If that doesn't work, then open a ticket, but I am not sure if you should open it against ACPI, or the widget.

33
Hardware / Re: USB 3.0 support for OS/2 & eCS
« on: 2012.07.01, 19:14:00 »
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Insert Quote
Quote from: DougB on Today at 00:37:01
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But are there mainboards out there that no longer have controllers on board that work with USB 2.0 drivers ?
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But USB 3.0 devices can, as far as I can tell be hooked up to a USB 2.0 port.
I think that is true, but that means that you will need to have a USB 2.0 port to hook them up to.
Not true. USB 3.0 ports are backward compatible. The connection falls back to USB 2.0 if one of
both ports or the cable is not for 3.0.

A USB 3.0 port WILL run older USB devices. A USB 3.0 device WILL, apparently, run on a USB 2.0 port. However, if all that you have is a USB 3.0 port, and you try to use it with eCS, it isn't going to work, until somebody makes a driver for the USB 3.0 port.

My bet is, that there will be nothing but USB 3.0 ports available on new hardware, within a year. Why would the manufacturers do anything else? USB 3.0 will run all current, and (short term) future, devices, and they don't have the expense of including USB 2.0 hardware. If we don't have a driver for USB 3.0, the only option available will be to purchase an additional USB 2.0 adapter, at extra cost. Unfortunately, USB has become an essential part of computing today, and users are not going to be any happier to be limited to USB 2.0 speeds, than they are now when they are limited to USB 1.x speeds.

Perhaps, it is, again, time to find a new motherboard, before supported devices go away. That will look after my desktop, but what will I do when I need a laptop, and they only have USB 3.0?

34
Hardware / Re: USB 3.0 support for OS/2 & eCS
« on: 2012.06.30, 23:37:01 »
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But are there mainboards out there that no longer have controllers on board that work with USB 2.0 drivers ?

Probably, but I can't name any. My Lenovo ThinkPad T510 was originally designed to have 2 USB 3.0 controllers, and nothing else. Fortunately, for me, they changed that to having two USB 2.0 controllers, and nothing else. Apparently, they use a built in hub to handle USB 1.x devices. There is no reason why manufacturers need to have USB 2.0 or 1.x controllers because USB 3.0 will run all of them (even if they need a built in hub to do it). That probably means that only USB 3.0 will be available, in the near future, simply because manufacturers are always looking for ways to reduce costs.

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But USB 3.0 devices can, as far as I can tell be hooked up to a USB 2.0 port.

I think that is true, but that means that you will need to have a USB 2.0 port to hook them up to. USB 2.0 ports are going away, fast.

There is more information about USB 3.0 at: www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/io/universal-serial-bus/universal-serial-bus-specifications.html

35
Hardware / Re: USB 3.0 support for OS/2 & eCS
« on: 2012.06.30, 20:49:38 »
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This has been on the Mensys project list for over 3 years now. But from my point of view it not that useful since the base USB stack still needs more work.

I agree that the base USB stack needs more work, however, it is now becoming urgent to get a USB 3.0 driver. The simple fact is, that there are some machines that are shipping with hardware that needs the USB 3.0 driver, and they don't have any other options (other than adding another card to support USB). Over the next year, or so, I expect to see no other options.

36
Hardware / Re: USB 3.0 support for OS/2 & eCS
« on: 2012.06.27, 23:45:08 »
There seems to be some USB 3.0 driver information at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EXtensible_Host_Controller_Interface_%28xHCI%29

I don't know if there is enough there to be able to develop a new driver, but anybody who knows a bit about it should review the information.

37
Setup & Installation / Re: One Instead Of Three?
« on: 2012.06.25, 05:52:22 »
CD #1 is really all that most people need to install eCS. CD #2 contains some stuff that is useful for some people, but not for the average user. CD #3, of course, contains OpenOffice (currently v 3.2). If you use the ISOFS driver, you really don't need to make actual disks out of CD #2 or #3. Just mount the ISO files, and use them that way.

38
Article Discussions / Re: ACPI version 3.20.03 released
« on: 2012.06.24, 19:46:42 »
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Doug: Sounds like a good idea to run Coolman, without throttling together with the new ACPI, ought to reduce power use even more.

It does. I don't remember which version I sent you (I made a lot of changes after that, trying to get my Lenovo ThinkPad T510 to play nicely). If it has the option to set the minimum throttle, just set that to 100, and it won't play with throttling (except when it first starts up).

FWIW, on my T43 (1871-W8M), with no power control, it runs at about 69C. With ACPI 3.20.03, and throttling enabled, it runs near 54C. If I slow the clock to level 3 (using the SETGETSTATE command), it runs at about 44C. Of course, battery life is extended too.

I think that the basic S/R is working with my T43, but it is difficult to tell, because a resume never turns on the screen backlight, and that makes it difficult to tell if it really came back to life, or not. The T510 appears to do the suspend okay, but I am pretty sure that resume never completes. It also does not turn on the screen backlight.

39
Article Discussions / Re: ACPI version 3.20.03 released
« on: 2012.06.24, 17:38:12 »
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Melf, that T43 would run cooler and suspend/resume would work better with APM than with ACPI.

I don't know about Melf's machine, but I do know that my T43 (1871-W8M) won't work, at all, with APM (won't even power off). The support code is just not in the BIOS.

40
Article Discussions / Re: ACPI version 3.20.03 released
« on: 2012.06.24, 17:31:27 »
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Does anybody have a working version that can show system/CPU temperature as measured using ACPI?

That works, for me, by RMB on the widget, select properties (NOT the eCenter properties), then select motherboard = Asus P5B. I suspect that that may be required on many AMD systems.

Quote
this version has much better power reduction on my system (Thinkpad T43-2668)

I haven't got around to trying it on my T43 (1871-W8M) yet, but it does much better on my Asus M3A78-EM, with quad core Phenom processor. It is also better on my Lenovo ThinkPad T510, which, contrary to instructions, I run with hyperthreading enabled (2 cores look like 4). I have had NO TROUBLE with that. I don't think it does much for eCS, but it sure helps Win7, and I don't have to mess around in the BIOS to change it.

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combined with DougB:s coolman, which does the power reduction work as well on this Thinkpad

My COOLMAN program uses the SETGETSTATE program to slow the clock, which seems to do more than throttling on single processor machines, where it will work. From what I can tell, the new power manager does not use the clock slowing mechanism, and throttling doesn't work well on every machine either. My Asus M3A78-EM motherboard has a problem where it won't reboot if it is left throttled while a reboot is attempted (usually after a crash). Sometimes, it needs to be rest by "pulling the plug" for a couple of minutes, to get it to go again. Setting the min throttle settings to 100% (all of them) seems to work around that problem, and the new ACPI still drops the temperature, significantly (I assume that it is HLT that does part of that, but it is mostly turning off unneeded processors that makes the big difference on SMP machines).

Melf. You may want to play with COOLMAN to disable the throttling section, and just let it use the SETGETSTATE part, then use it with the new ACPI. I will try that on my T43, when I find the time (probably this morning).

41
Hardware / Re: LAN Driver not working
« on: 2012.06.21, 15:53:57 »
You probably need the new one from the Software Subscription Betazone.

42
I will post a notice that the SAMBA TRAC is awaiting feedback, from a number of users, Apparently, it does not notify a user when an update has been made, so it is up to the user to monitor for updates, and make the appropriate response.

It appears that the owners are starting to close incidents when there is no feedback, so if you can't find your incident, it may have been closed.

43
Mail-News / Re: PMMail - Secure transfer setup
« on: 2012.06.11, 21:55:03 »
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I found a workaround for my work mail, where my employer just offer IMAP. It was possible to simply redirect to one of my POP accounts.

Hmmm. That is a good idea, but I am sure that it has a few problems to overcome. Many users probably would not be allowed to redirect mail off of the company mail server.

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Anyway IMAP would be a great feature.

Over the last couple of years, I have thought about IMAP a bit. I am not so sure that it is a great idea. In some cases, it can be very convenient, but in most cases, it is an unacceptable (IMO) security exposure. Of course, having that stuff on a laptop, or other e-mail capable device, is also a security exposure. The whole e-mail thing is not very secure, even if you use something like PGP, or GPG (both work with PMMail).

44
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As for IBM, I've always been puzzled by their attitude to OS/2 migration.

I worked for IBM for 25 years. For the first 20, they were a company that went out of their way to be sure that the customer got the best service, and products. In the last 5 years (ending in 1992, when I retired), the whole thing changed to "make money, or you're outa here". OS/2 had a solid customer base, but IBM was not making much money from it. Development was expensive, and there was not a lot of service to be done. I believe that it paid for itself, but there was little profit in it, so IBM tried to cut it. The only reason it hung around for as long as it did, was because of the solid customer base who refused to let it go. IBM filled the gap by pushing JAVA, for a while, but that also didn't produce much profit, so they jumped on the *NIX bandwagon, and attempted to make money by selling "conversion support". I think that is coming to an end too, but I have no idea where they plan to go next. I would suspect that windows would make more opportunities for "conversion", and maintenance, and I have seen a few indications that that is where they are going. I also believe that most customers are realizing that they are not getting the service, or products, that they need (from anybody, not just IBM). There is an opportunity to pick up a lot of that business, but I don't know of anything that is available to do the job. Cell phones, and *pad products will eventually replace the laptop, and desktop (if they haven't already), but the servers that do the background work are available to whoever can make the most reliable hardware and software. Linux, seems to have that market, but I am not so sure that it is really doing the job that is desired. OS/2 (as eCS), can still do a credible job, but it is getting very limited with new hardware, the GUI parts (OS/2's strong point) are becoming less important, and the networking is getting so far out of date (no IPv6 support), that everybody can see the end of the line, and they don't want to commit to it, until that problem (among others) has been resolved.

Where does it go from here? Well, rumor has it that IBM has "lost the source". If that is actually true, then IBM would be the last company that I would hire to help me protect my data. If it is not, how can anybody trust anything that they say?  So, IBM will be no help with the task. We can get little information about new products (even simple things like video adapters, and NICs), to be able to write proper drivers. There are far too few qualified programmers working with OS/2 software to be able to keep up with the changes that are demanded by users. The bottom line is, that Mensys (eCS) has made great progress in keeping OS/2 working, but there have been no great advances since IBM backed out. Eventually, OS/2 (as eCS), will just not be able to do the job any more, and the users will have to move on, to get the job done. A lot of that has already happened, but there is a hard core who are still committed to keeping the platform alive. More power to them, but they need as much help as they can get.

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Mail-News / Re: PMMail - Secure transfer setup
« on: 2012.06.09, 03:27:02 »
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Will IMAP be supported in a near future?

IMAP was put on the PMMail development path in 2006. Unfortunately, the guy who volunteered to do it, backed out, and nothing has been done with IMAP. It is still one of the things on the "ToDo" list, but I know that James Moe (the lead - and only - programer) doesn't have the time to do it. He is still up to his eyeballs trying to get the base program to work properly. He has done some marvelous work, but the latest updates have proven to be very problematic, and he has other things that he needs to take care of, so progress has been slow. Having said that, PMMail 3.11 works far better than the old PMMail 2.20 ever did, plus it has support for a number of new things. IMAP just isn't one of them.

If anybody is interested in tackling the IMAP part, speak up, and I will put you in touch with the appropriate people. A good understanding of C++ programming, and IMAP, would be very helpful.

For those who don't know, all of the development for the PMMail project is done by unpaid volunteers. VOICE charges users a one time fee, equivalent to the cost of a normal membership in VOICE (you also need to be a member of VOICE to get a PMMail license, which is good forever). The proceeds go toward supporting the OS2/eCS community. There is no profit involved.

You can get more information about PMMail at: pmmail.os2voice.org/index.php?title=PMMail_for_OS/2

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