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Microsoft Wants to Be Your Big Brother

Started by BigWarpGuy, 2008.01.24, 18:50:37

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BigWarpGuy

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/Microsoft-wants-to-your-Big-Brother/ "It's not science-fiction. It's a real technology and it cannot be allowed to happen or privacy will vanish. "  Here is another reason to use a non-Win OS?  ???     

8)

Robert Deed

If Microsoft makes it, probably wouldn't work anyway.. =)

Quote from: BigWarpGuy on 2008.01.24, 18:50:37
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/Microsoft-wants-to-your-Big-Brother/ "It's not science-fiction. It's a real technology and it cannot be allowed to happen or privacy will vanish. "  Here is another reason to use a non-Win OS?  ???     

8)

RobertM

Quote from: Robert Deed on 2008.01.24, 19:08:55
If Microsoft makes it, probably wouldn't work anyway.. =)

Quote from: BigWarpGuy on 2008.01.24, 18:50:37
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/Microsoft-wants-to-your-Big-Brother/ "It's not science-fiction. It's a real technology and it cannot be allowed to happen or privacy will vanish. "  Here is another reason to use a non-Win OS?  ???     

8)

LoL!!! You do have a point... though chances are, it will work for any wannabe hacker and script kiddy who decides to use that "feature"/backdoor... ;)

-Robert


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Saijin_Naib

Ugh, the writer of that article missed the intent of the research being done with that technology, but I expect no less of people.

Mis-interpretation leading to hysteria and snide remarks? How new and edgy.

RobertM

Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.01.25, 00:39:08
Ugh, the writer of that article missed the intent of the research being done with that technology, but I expect no less of people.

Mis-interpretation leading to hysteria and snide remarks? How new and edgy.

While that is quite possible - it is also possible that he is basing his feelings off of the other patents MS has filed for technologies they have developed (and slipped some of into Vista through Service Packs - like the Live features added recently) that will allow them to categorize, catalog and analyze every document you create, open or view; every chat session you are involved in; every activity through any Live property; and so on - all in conjunction with the already established technologies in WMP that report back to them all of your music library information; and IE sending any non-fully qualified web request to MS before directing you to the site.

The other patents quite explicitly spell out the fact that they intend to grab all of that information to profile Windows users... MS claims in later statements that they wont know WHO they are profiling, but the fact of the matter is, Vista requires registration - with the same machine identifying info sent as what's sent via their new patent-pending technologies - so it's one simple database match to figure out who you are - unless you typed the wrong name in when you registered Vista... and of course almost all of the Live properties require identifying information as well (some including the requirement for credit card info). So obviously, their after-the-fact statement about not being able to identify users is bogus - which alone worries me (and many other tech savvy people).

The fact that this latest patent application comes close on the heels of the earlier ones - and can be equally as devastating to user privacy - would have me thinking along the same lines as the article's author did as well.

I could be wrong... but then again MS has a track record for these sort of things - like their rather ambiguous "Privacy Policy" which allows them to share gleaned information with their partners (please define partner... is that anyone consider a "Microsoft ______ Partner"? Because that would be millions of people and companies). Or like the "accidental" issue with the Speech Recognition/Microphone software that was always on in the first release of XP - and sending stuff to MS - even though, to this day, the speech recognition component does not work even barely usably.

Only time will tell if his (mine and others') concerns are warranted.

???


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
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Saijin_Naib

I dont know, from a pure research standpoint (im a scientist after all) I was quite fascinated when I read the article (posted here earlier) about the biometrics of computing and how that can affect the user's experience and producitivty. I think thats an amazing study and so much good information can come from that. However, this should be voluntary, and will be. Im fairly certain not many people have computers with biometrics equiptment set up :\

As to Microsoft's security policy, I say screw it, I have nothing to hide. Im sure they are not the only ones. Id call out Apple, but I fear for my life when I dare say anything against that coffe-sipping beret wearing cult of rather pretentious snobs. Isnt Live & Live servies the embodiment of the network as the computer? A de-centralized service that allows you to have all your personal data and information with you everywhere and on any platform you have? I think that if you saw this from any other company that YOU may think highly of, youd be thrilled and talk about the amazing progress, but simply because its from Microsoft, its immediately suspect.

I dont know, maybe you are right, but I for one dont really know.

RobertM

Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.01.25, 01:56:52
I dont know, from a pure research standpoint (im a scientist after all) I was quite fascinated when I read the article (posted here earlier) about the biometrics of computing and how that can affect the user's experience and producitivty. I think thats an amazing study and so much good information can come from that. However, this should be voluntary, and will be. Im fairly certain not many people have computers with biometrics equiptment set up :\

On a research/technology standpoint, I agree with you 100%... but once the technology is out there... case in point, RFID tag manufacturers have successfully lobbied the California Government to try passing a law allowing businesses the "right" to tag their employees. If this technology (MS's) comes to pass, who is to say that some new law isnt lobbied to allow businesses the "right" to implement it as well - non-voluntarily - just like the RFID issue? I have a feeling MS's ideas are no more expensive... so cost wouldnt be the prohibitive factor.

Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.01.25, 01:56:52
As to Microsoft's security policy, I say screw it, I have nothing to hide. Im sure they are not the only ones. Id call out Apple, but I fear for my life when I dare say anything against that coffe-sipping beret wearing cult of rather pretentious snobs. Isnt Live & Live servies the embodiment of the network as the computer? A de-centralized service that allows you to have all your personal data and information with you everywhere and on any platform you have? I think that if you saw this from any other company that YOU may think highly of, youd be thrilled and talk about the amazing progress, but simply because its from Microsoft, its immediately suspect.

I dont know, maybe you are right, but I for one dont really know.

I dont know either... though, to me, it's the issue of it - and that MS has never proven their very own servers to be secure or reliable - and that they also plan on using the information to sell to advertisers (err... partners - no, wait... the patent says advertisers - but they are one in the same). So no longer is it MS having access to the info - it's whoever decides to pay MS money for it (and thus becoming a partner/advertiser). Therein lies my issues with it. Their patent applications clearly state such is the intended use - and with a credit card (or bank account) and a URL, you too can become a MS advertising partner. Now... I might not mind you buying that info... but we have all seen way too many shady advertisers on the Internet, and way too many fly-by-night companies in that category... who knows what happens to your and my info then? Will it include that credit card number I typed in to log into my bank account because Vista was monitoring everything I typed - and didnt recognize it as "dont store this"? Or that word document I created with all my passwords for my financial stuff (bank accounts, credit card accounts, etc) because it just thought it was yet another word document? I dont want MS selling that info to their advertisers (like their patent claims they will).

Their new technologies go far beyond privacy issues... they also include safety and financial security issues.

But alas... I too have no idea where this stuff will go - it does though scare me to know that they have some working technologies and multiple patents pending on it all.


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
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Saijin_Naib

:C Everybody seems to be doing it. Look at facebook, the only social networking site I use, and beacon. I turned beacon off, but lo-and-behold, beacon is still tracking/targeting me. I think that the advertisers and those who get money from that will have their way, no matter what. If they did not exist, this monitoring technology would not be for bad use, but for the use which we would like to see it.

ModZilla

Hal didnt really "mean" what he said either...
someday os2 will be ruled by the young and famous-at least in the open-source world!

Ben

#9
Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.01.25, 02:15:29
:C Everybody seems to be doing it. Look at facebook, the only social networking site I use, and beacon. I turned beacon off, but lo-and-behold, beacon is still tracking/targeting me. I think that the advertisers and those who get money from that will have their way, no matter what. If they did not exist, this monitoring technology would not be for bad use, but for the use which we would like to see it.

The level of invasiveness of personal privacy that people are willing to accept astounds me.

When your most intimate things are common there is no reason for self-respect, and if you do not have self-respect, then there is nothing for others to respect in you.

The psychological makeup of a person is such that the potential for individuality is there as a product of one's birth. But it is not guaranteed to mature.

In addition, society is setup to prevent this maturation from happening. Your Core needs something precious that helps make an individual special to himself, and to others. And you need to hold and keep it dear. Then you can give it to someone special in your life who will in turn, in love, give you something special of themselves, and together you can make a strong bond that can last a lifetime and give you a sense of completeness.

Look around you. The average lifetime today tosses away mates like a flu-stricken person going through a box of tissues.

No bonding with your mate, no strong ties. No strong ties, no strong family. No strong family, no one to miss you or stand up for you, should you be the object of oppression... as we all are today. Rights and freedoms today are just another box of Kleenex. You cannot do this without a detrimental backlash.

When all things precious are common, individuality is lost. When individuality is lost we are cloned common stock in a communal society. i.e.: communistic or, as you'll be hearing more of soon, Collectivistic. This is not good. Individuality will disappear and group-think will reign. In a group you are a number. As a number you can never be special. And your birthright is still-born.

Saijin Naib, I know I quoted a stale message from you, and, just to be clear, I'm not really responding to you, rather, I'm using your post as mechanism for information delivery to all in general. It is not personal.  ;)

Very few people these days understand that privacy is the keystone to security of mind... and of body. You pull it out, (or give it away), to the detriment of all involved. This was well known in the past, but is hidden from the public at large today, stolen from your back pocket with their left hand, while their right hand keeps you dazzled by the glitz of the Internet and the illusion of a real community. It can never be real.

When the peg of respect is pulled out, the very foundations of what we are will shake, and ultimately, fall. If there is nothing differentiating us from anything, and all we have is common, then we are common. Common is the opposite of Special and built in to, even the very word, Communist.

As a small taste of what I say, look up "The Hidden Agenda" on YouTube and listen to the now deceased Norman Dodd in a interview just before his death.

Norman Dodd was many things, but in relevance, he was the head of the Congressional Investigation Committee setup by the US Congress, (by Congressman Carroll Reese),  to investigate the wrong doings of the big tax-exempt foundations with respect to what they were up to with the Nazis during the second world war. This committee is generally, and unofficially, referred to as the Reese Committee in the early 50s and did complete its task. But their finding were never allowed to be submitted before Congress, having been crushed by powerful forces. The findings are, however, available.

To wrap this up, the foundations knew they couldn't get people to give up their privacy and let the government into their bedrooms and mental inner sanctum, by force. As soon as the people got wind of it heads would roll. So they made it
KEWL to give up privacy, for a new and unsuspecting generation who know nothing of war and national deceit, in an education system that has thrown away the banana and kept the peel.

This soon spread to all generations in a world of apparent safety and comfort..