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Which should be our Community Goal for 2008 ??

Started by miturbide, 2007.12.27, 19:33:28

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miturbide

Hi

I will like to open the discussion on which should be our Community Goals for 2008.

For example:
From the Development point of view:
- Support Voyager Development
- Support Open Source Replacement for closed OS/2-eCS components.
- Support porting Open Source Software to OS/2-eCS.

From the User point of view:
- Encourage the use of eComStation 2.0.
- ???

What else do you have in mind ?  Which level of detail should have our Goals for 2008 ??
Martín Itúrbide
OS2World.com NewsMaster
Open Source Advocate

Skype - martiniturbide
Google Talk - martiniturbide@gmail.com

BigWarpGuy


melf

This is my points, from an interested, longterm enduser of OS/2-eCS: Martin your questions are really important. I wonder about what rights Serenity Systems have. If they can't get access to important source code, like the kernel, I guess they sooner or later will come to ways end. If open source developer could replace important parts, how could it be implemented? I guess IBM would not allow Serenity to exchange key parts of the system with open source replacements and what do we have then? Well we have to exchange everything I guess.

Serenity and connected developers have been making and are making a great job in developement and I hope it could persist. If they're not gaining access to important parts I guess that a project like Voyager will be the only way to save the OS/2 soul, even if it resembles the developement of Mac with it's unix kernel. So we have to support in the broad range: I think, Serenitys eCS primarlly and Voyger and opensource replacements secondly.
/Mikael

miturbide

Thanks for your point of view Mikael.

I don't think that Serenity will have problems with IBM by replacing some OS/2 closed components. Currently Serenity included already some open source replacement on eComStation. The basic problem is that we don't have the replacements available ;)

I share your point of view that we have to support Serenity on the upcomming 2008. But in a long term the open source replacements are very important, since having it open source will provide us vendor independance. 

Martin
Martín Itúrbide
OS2World.com NewsMaster
Open Source Advocate

Skype - martiniturbide
Google Talk - martiniturbide@gmail.com

abwillis

Serenity is already replacing some parts such as they are working on Samba to replace Lan Manager eventually.  I don't know if there is any parts that they would be prohibited by IBM to replace, it would be more likely to be manpower issues that would be a problem.
My personal opinion is that Voyager is our best bet for the long term.  I think that both long term and short term what we need is more people to do like Paul and begin doing ports of Open Source software. 
Andy

DavidG

I think Martin emphasized the most important aspects that need doing.  The four he mentioned are all equally important in my opinion.  Voyager is the future if it can ever get off the ground.

David

chennecke

#6
Well, in July 2006 I wrote an editorial (http://www.os2voice.org/VNL/past_issues/VNL0706H/editorial.html) that, unfortunately, still applies.

So, I think the most important overall goals are missing:

- Be a real community

- Support the community

That includes to stop living in caves on many small islands. Heck, OS/2 news services still aren't fully connected and people are still fiddling around for themselves re-inventing the wheel and wasting resources.

El Vato

Quote from: chennecke on 2007.12.29, 14:35:22
[...]

So, I think the most important overall goals are missing:

- Be a real community

- Support the community

That includes to stop living in caves on many small islands. Heck, OS/2 news services still aren't fully connected and people are still fiddling around for themselves re-inventing the wheel and wasting resources.

Chennecke,

You addressed the most important "glue" component that provides the mechanism to develop the potential of all of the prior suggestions.  Further, and to emphasize the importance of your notion, a real community becomes a catalyst for development and provides the synchronization and management necessary for the organic growth of selected important projects.

I only read VOICE sporadically, consequently I was unaware of your article.  Notwithstanding, I had focused attention on that open source property that is alien to OS/2ers --and in general proprietary software entities-- in other posts here in the forum.

I only wish that Golden Code Development (GCD) stopped being an "island" and embraced the community notion: sharing the code to its excellent OS/2 native Java product --before it simply becomes irrelevant for the future of OS/2.  If GCD selects an appropriate open source business model and license, its code will not be cannibalized by competing entities.

I believe that Sun Microsystems showed that open sourcing the code to Java does not mean providing the same weapons to the competitor(s) so as to be used against the mother organization --it selected the GPL instead of the Apache Foundation licensing model.  GCD might do similarly.

Simply my perspective for this coming interval of time referred to as 2008 in some patches of the human sphere --where Pythagoras notion of "number" is the rule.

El Vato

Saijin_Naib

I think that eCS should be supported. I have made some mention of features and abilities that I find keep it from being attractive to the current generation of users, and I shall name a few here.

1) Hardware support
   Hardware Graphics acceleration a definate plus (Panorama is acceptable however)
   HD-audio support
   Less ACPI strange-ness with broken/added compatibility with each version

2) Updated UI effects
     Something akin to beryl or compviz fusion to make the WPS more attractive to use
     eSchemes ability to import/wrap MSSTLYES like SkyOS's theme manager can do so a whole     ton of polished UI themese can be used in addition to the eSchemes ones

3) Codec support on syslevel MMOS2

4) Modern Java/Flash, updated in step with the Big 3's Java/Flash

5) Support for emergent content (Silverlight)


Of course, to accomplish any/all of this, we need extensive help from open source projects. That being said, I dont simply want Linux that sorta looks/works like eCS. If I wanted linux, I would not have paid for OS/2. So, OSFree is great, but I do not feel that is where I want the most work being put. Improve/expand eCS, bolster it with open-source materials, but dont abandon it for Linux.

RobertM

Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2007.12.30, 04:50:23
5) Support for emergent content (Silverlight)

This is the only one I disagree with you on. As Siverlight will NOT be open source, I think it will be akin to trying to support yet another MS moving target. I'd prefer efforts of that nature be spent supporting an open source alternative. I can assure you that once other OS vendors make a foray into the Silverlight arena, MS, as always, will change relevant and necessary portions to only operate on Windows, leaving other OS's with broken support - as is their track record with everything else. What they claim now, is entirely irrelevant to me. What their track record (in all aspects of business) prove, to me is a far better indication of what they will do. Just like their OOXML standard - which isn't open at all, and will continue to diverge, making it yet another MS only standard.


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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miturbide


Possible we should be talking about Moonlight. It uses three open source licenses. But nobody know if in the future Silverlight will have feature that Moonlight will not.

But I don't think that a Moonlight port will be that important for the moment. We will have to see if the technology get broadly adopted.
Martín Itúrbide
OS2World.com NewsMaster
Open Source Advocate

Skype - martiniturbide
Google Talk - martiniturbide@gmail.com

kim

Quote from: chennecke on 2007.12.29, 14:35:22So, I think the most important overall goals are missing:

- Be a real community

- Support the community

That includes to stop living in caves on many small islands. Heck, OS/2 news services still aren't fully connected and people are still fiddling around for themselves re-inventing the wheel and wasting resources.

I fully agree with you on this that the lack of communication has hurt the community itself by not communicating what, where, why and how to get where ever we want to go. Also sadly that you didn't get any proper response from either mentioned party within your article or was it just seen as an attempt to alienate the community? I hope not. Also what we all know is that if we want to get our message out we need to involve strong language with sometimes bold statements.

Voyager might be the best bet that we have for a future platform to continue work with, but we are far from there. So the approach replacing closed source components within eCS with open source is a priority and as well also one of the initial steps that we should take. Problem is that quite a few of the replacement done in eCS is still not open source and licensed code from third parties. From Serenity's perspective I can understand that they want to protect the investments by having the code closed; but will they gain from it in the long run?