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eComStation 2.0 RC5

Started by Saijin_Naib, 2008.07.04, 02:10:12

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TheNerd

You definitely make some excellent points there Ben. I understand and appreciate that things should be in a good working state before a full release is published.

The thing that bugs me is that I have been told, by Mensys, that RC5 was going to be the last release before GA. I was also told, 2 years ago, when I started out as a reseller that 2.0 GA was on the horizon (2 years it not the horizon IMO). Those two things combined with the lack of communication with the resellers is very frustrating. I've been contacted, on numerous occasions, by potential customers who had information that hadn't even been communicated to resellers. IMO, this information should be communicated to the resellers before (or at least at the same time) as it is communicated to the general public.

It's a point I have brought up before and I'm beginning to think it might just be a pipe dream.

Againg these are just my opinions :)

Cheerios!
http://ecomstation.ca/ - Your Canadian Source for eComStation and OS/2 Software!
http://ecomstation.ca/forums/ - Canadian eCS Forums
http://ecsware.org - Software for eComStation

saborion2

Re:

QuoteThe bottom line is that I'd like to have at least one recent version of our favourite OS, just popped into the CD Drive and installed, without having to doctor it significantly... or at all, for the more mainstream hardware.

While it is not realistic to expect this for all available hardware, in all of the various, possible, combinations, (no OS achieves this), I'd like to see it reasonably close... or even closer... and I think, given the quality of the release candidates, that it is do-able.   :D

I am 100% in agreement with you on this; and, the ICING-ON-THE-CAKE would be an integration of an "AUTOMATIC UPDATE" functionality for the beloved Operating System (OS/2).  ;D

This was a really neat post "Ben". Good to see that you are taking some time-off from watching your "Stock Prices" hitting the bottom.  ;)


Ben

Quote from: TheNerd on 2008.10.10, 22:34:18
The thing that bugs me is that I have been told, by Mensys, that RC5 was going to be the last release before GA. I was also told, 2 years ago, when I started out as a reseller that 2.0 GA was on the horizon (2 years it not the horizon IMO). Those two things combined with the lack of communication with the resellers is very frustrating. I've been contacted, on numerous occasions, by potential customers who had information that hadn't even been communicated to resellers. IMO, this information should be communicated to the resellers before (or at least at the same time) as it is communicated to the general public.

It's a point I have brought up before and I'm beginning to think it might just be a pipe dream.

I hear you, understand you and share in the frustration.

I think project completion dates have been a constant source of pain and aggravation for software developers and users everywhere.

On the one hand there is great pressure to provide a date, however vague, and on the other hand, there is the impossibility of foreseeing unknown problems that come upon both the individuals involved, and on the group as a whole.

That's why a lot of developers refuse to give out anything other than, "it will be done when it's done." One way or another, project completion times are a pain for all involved.

In the meantime...

I await completion...
                                                                     ^  ^
... and observe the observers...
              /('O,O')\

Ben

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.10.10, 22:36:14
Good to see that you are taking some time-off from watching your "Stock Prices" hitting the bottom.  ;)

I've just been busy writing articles for my own website, (non-OS/2 related), and posting in my own forum, (non-OS/2 related), where I get much more into worldly awareness than I do in my posts here, restricting the latter &  posting here only as it ties in.


Note: Most of the boards on my forum are invisible to the guest. I wish to prevent, (or limit), information harvesting and one of the layers of protection is the requirement for registration. This also acts as a filter, self-restricting those who seek entertainment and allowing those who's minds are active.


TheNerd

Quote from: Ben on 2008.10.10, 23:13:31

I hear you, understand you and share in the frustration.

I think project completion dates have been a constant source of pain and aggravation for software developers and users everywhere.

On the one hand there is great pressure to provide a date, however vague, and on the other hand, there is the impossibility of foreseeing unknown problems that come upon both the individuals involved, and on the group as a whole.

That's why a lot of developers refuse to give out anything other than, "it will be done when it's done." One way or another, project completion times are a pain for all involved.

In the meantime...

I await completion...
                                                                     ^  ^
... and observe the observers...
              /('O,O')\


I definitely understand that developers have a hard time giving dates for completion but given the nature of this software (being commercial) there should be some time constraints on the components completion, at least IMO.

With that said I'm sure it will be a great product when released.
http://ecomstation.ca/ - Your Canadian Source for eComStation and OS/2 Software!
http://ecomstation.ca/forums/ - Canadian eCS Forums
http://ecsware.org - Software for eComStation

saborion2

Re:

QuoteI definitely understand that developers have a hard time giving dates for completion but given the nature of this software (being commercial) there should be some time constraints on the components completion, at least IMO.

With that said I'm sure it will be a great product when released.

There is a saying that goes like this: "Good Things Come To Those Who Wait; But, Not To Those Who Wait Forever" Substituting "Great" for "Good" in this case. At this rate one could just imagine when eComStation 4 or 5 will be here; perhaps, not in my lifetime.  ::) :D ::)

MrJinx

I think the whole problem could be easily solved.
Serenity/Mensys needs a new maintenance cost model and version system.
1. Instead of version 2.0 B1It should be 2.01, 2.02, etc.... This would help the products' status. (Who buys year to year maintenance on a beta product?..... Well I do!)

The reality is, eCS 2.0 met their original/Planned specs @ 2.0 A5. The real problem is the evolution of Hardware is driving faster than development can be performed. SATA, Installing from USB mediums, CD-ROM, Memsticks, ACPI / Basic BIOS changing quickly as well.
Network Chipsets, Wireless. Many of these things affect whether an install is going to happen or not.
I buy my yearly subscription renewal to support the effort to keep the OS viable with the constant changing Hardware environment. Mensys has done a good job of managing on a small budget to keep developers working on ACPI, USB, Shell enhancements, Helper apps, device drivers and WPS replacement components.

Every time I see a post about a user "Waiting for eCS 2.0GA" before they are going to try it. I think of another lost opportunity for both Mensys and the User posting. Needs don't get prioritized or brought to light, If you don't contribute by testing/using it on your hardware.

I use 2.0 B3 and later on production desktop devices without any issue. The newer laptops are another story......

Refer to 2.02....,2.05 as maintenance releases.
I would like to see updating of the eCS maintenance tool to better accommodate 2.0 updates and releases. Why reload or migrate a 2.04 machine to 2.05?  The yearly maintenance/ subscription services should include OpenOffice since every linux distro has it as a core application.  Mensys could generate some extra income by releasing a bootable DVD with all 3 eCS cd's merged to run, Also include the iso's to burn the 3 CD's if needed for a non-DVD based machine. I'd buy that as an extra.
$15 us + shipping and a valid eCS subscription.

There are lots of needs for eCS in general, But the only thing really slowing me down currently, Is the inability to install eCS from a USB CD-ROM/DVD.   I know it is being worked on and that's good enough for me.

Will the project ever be complete? Does it really matter? What matters is we are getting a better product with each release.
We are getting the closest thing to commercial support we are going to get for OS/2.
Serenity/Mensys gives more in each release than IBM software choice gave out over 5 years.
Things get done faster with investment, Are you investing in OS/2's future or are you waiting to renew you eCS subscription until the GA comes out?

saborion2

Re:

Quote"[....I use 2.0 B3 and later on production desktop devices without any issue. The newer laptops are another story......

Refer to 2.02....,2.05 as maintenance releases.
I would like to see updating of the eCS maintenance tool to better accommodate 2.0 updates and releases. Why reload or migrate a 2.04 machine to 2.05?  The yearly maintenance/ subscription services should include OpenOffice since every linux distro has it as a core application.  Mensys could generate some extra income by releasing a bootable DVD with all 3 eCS cd's merged to run, Also include the iso's to burn the 3 CD's if needed for a non-DVD based machine. I'd buy that as an extra.
$15 us + shipping and a valid eCS subscription.

There are lots of needs for eCS in general, But the only thing really slowing me down currently, Is the inability to install eCS from a USB CD-ROM/DVD.   I know it is being worked on and that's good enough for me.

Will the project ever be complete? Does it really matter? What matters is we are getting a better product with each release.
We are getting the closest thing to commercial support we are going to get for OS/2.
Serenity/Mensys gives more in each release than IBM software choice gave out over 5 years.
Things get done faster with investment, Are you investing in OS/2's future or are you waiting to renew you eCS subscription until the GA comes out?....]"

Here is my take on this - I would rather have IBM and Serentiy/Mensys deliver on an Operating System in a timely manner with dependable support services; and, here is the "deal" - you get the Open Standards IBM's Lotus Symphony for free without having to pay for OpenOffice.  8)


Saijin_Naib

Symphony = OpenOffice (with a different GUI) = Redundant. Speaking of, OO.org 3.0 is out and very nice, when do we get it (dare I ask?).

MrJinx

Perhaps you could share instructions with us on installing Lotus Symphony under OS/2?
I have tried it under windows and although it works, I recall a lack of filters for other office products especially "Save as" filters.
If it works, I would love to re-open the book on porting Hanover.....eCS could really use an updated Lotus Notes client especially R8.

Saijin_Naib

I didnt say it ran under OS/2, I said it was the same core application as OpenOffice and it would be kinda redundant to have Symphony as well as OpenOffice being worked on at the same time, especially seeing how we cant even keep our OpenOffice port timely.

TheNerd

What we really need of OO.org and/or Symphony are a group of developers that were willing to actively maintain a port of that particular software. While I know Mensys is doing a decent job keeping a somewhat up to date port of OO.org they have to charge a fee for what is normally a free application. I understand they have to do this if they want to pay the devs to keep porting the software.

I do agree with the mention of the versioning change. It's hard to justify the yearly renewal of the SSS if there aren't any updates released for over a year. For some people access to betazone type software may not be enough.
http://ecomstation.ca/ - Your Canadian Source for eComStation and OS/2 Software!
http://ecomstation.ca/forums/ - Canadian eCS Forums
http://ecsware.org - Software for eComStation

saborion2

#27
Re:

Quote from: TheNerd on 2008.10.13, 03:55:57
What we really need of OO.org and/or Symphony are a group of developers that were willing to actively maintain a port of that particular software. While I know Mensys is doing a decent job keeping a somewhat up to date port of OO.org they have to charge a fee for what is normally a free application. I understand they have to do this if they want to pay the devs to keep porting the software.

I do agree with the mention of the versioning change. It's hard to justify the yearly renewal of the SSS if there aren't any updates released for over a year. For some people access to betazone type software may not be enough.

It is for this reason in particular:

QuoteWhile I know Mensys is doing a decent job keeping a somewhat up to date port of OO.org they have to charge a fee for what is normally a free application. I understand they have to do this if they want to pay the devs to keep porting the software.

That by "re-engaging" IBM (the OEM of OS/2) in all of these development activities... there may be that "assurance" of an actively maintained
Quoteport of that particular software.

These are all the more reasons for this in that OS/2 cannot be Open Sourced because of legal and other reasons according to IBM in its response letter to the OS/2 World Foundation. So, to me it is any one's guess how much access Serenity/Mensys have to the OS/2 Source-Codes. Therefore, somethings regarding the development/enhancements of/to eComStation without IBM's involvement just do not appear logical (make much sense) to me.  ???

Best regards.

TheNerd

I have no idea what access to the source they have but would it be unreasonable to assume that they could at least negotiate some sort of agreement to get access to it (if they don't already)?

http://ecomstation.ca/ - Your Canadian Source for eComStation and OS/2 Software!
http://ecomstation.ca/forums/ - Canadian eCS Forums
http://ecsware.org - Software for eComStation

saborion2

Quote from: TheNerd on 2008.10.14, 04:52:24
I have no idea what access to the source they have but would it be unreasonable to assume that they could at least negotiate some sort of agreement to get access to it (if they don't already)?


Agreed; but, it is about time that IBM (in particular), Serenity Systems/Mensys et al say publicly what their goals and objectives (publish a mission statement sort of) - moving forward. At least with $700,000,000,000 floating around (in just one country alone) among all those that are caught up in the current global financial crisis. Simply put - the $$$ must certainly be there somewhere to entice would-be OS/2 developers. Basically, I think that they are collectively wasting other people's time when they could be making some handsome cash with those products and services..  >:(

Regards.